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18 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

there is more chance to win the league or fa cup than getting 7th and trying to win the europa.  teams in our position win the league or fa cup all the time, no one has won the europa from a qualifying round.  i am about trophies as well, i just don't care about europa anymore (i used to love it) because i think the domestic competitions are more important for us at this point.  win one of those break the duck and then move onto trying to get a CL spot.  Europa derails the season, and matches in Azjerbaijan are not increasing our credibility.

You keep stating that no one has won the Europa League from the qualifying rounds even though I’ve proven that to be wrong

You then state teams like us win the FA Cup , we never take the League Cup seriously, all the time, when the fact is only 2 teams outside of the Sky 6 have won it in the past 23 years

We haven’t won a single trophy during that time so we should be going all out for any chance we get in any competition 

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3 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

You keep stating that no one has won the Europa League from the qualifying rounds even though I’ve proven that to be wrong

You then state teams like us win the FA Cup , we never take the League Cup seriously, all the time, when the fact is only 2 teams outside of the Sky 6 have won it in the past 23 years

We haven’t won a single trophy during that time so we should be going all out for any chance we get in any competition 

liverpool went in via the group stage not the qualifying round (they got 5th in the league not 6th or 7th), man united same thing 5th place.  qualifying round is 6th and 7th place in our league.  when we went in with koeman that stat was always mentioned on many broadcast of our games i watched, teams that enter that early have never even made the final.  

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1 minute ago, markjazzbassist said:

liverpool went in via the group stage not the qualifying round (they got 5th in the league not 6th or 7th), man united same thing 5th place.  qualifying round is 6th and 7th place in our league.  when we went in with koeman that stat was always mentioned on many broadcast of our games i watched, teams that enter that early have never even made the final.  

Sorry I was meaning the group stages, point still stands though that we should be going all out to win any trophy

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6 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Sorry I was meaning the group stages, point still stands though that we should be going all out to win any trophy

I agree shouldn't we looking at this as a positive instead of a negative.

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The club needs to be competing regularly in Europe (Europa league qualifying or otherwise) if it wants to be a big player and break into the league’s current top 6 teams. Playing regularly in the Europa league is how we’re going to expand our squad, lure bigger names to our team and actually become a league contender again.

If you want us to finish 8th this year to avoid playing in Europe you may as well starting hoping for 8th place finishes every season. 

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A previous comment suggested Europa qualifiers as a pre-season friendly and fringe players should play. It still means an earlier report back, extra games and given our history going out in that stage. Have to say I agree with MJB that it might not be worth it. IMO better take the League Cup seriously, something which our managers don't do.

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I'm not getting ahead of myself... our first11 looks like it's ready to compete with the addition of a couple of players and a bit more gelling. Europa will be nice but we need a bigger squad. 

 

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I want us in the europa league because there is absolutely nothing better than being on an away trip in Europe. A bar full of blues all day, everyone having a laugh together, non stop singing at the match and a boring trip home but with a load of memories. Don’t care about the money the club will get. 

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Been very patient with him and I can stand struggling up to a point where we find form but I cant stand absolutely crumbling under complacency against a team that bad. 

Finishing 9th or 10th this season is nowhere near good enough and we need a proper manager in now to take us forward. 

If gomes can't be arsed stepping up when it counts, he can fuck off - we don't need another luxury player. 

If calvert lewin can't put the ball in the net he can fuck off, he's a striker and unless he's Firminho that's his job and he needs to contribute. 

Zouma isn'ttt out player and doesn't really care if we win as long as he can get to where he wants to be. 

Sigurdsson scores goals and works hard. I wish I could say much more about him. Clearly he is not a number 10 who is going to unlock a defence for us. 

Marco Silva. Deery me. I could see 10 minutes in the system we had wasn't working. It took him 74 minutes today to make a substitute, despite having only 1 shot on target. 

And worst of all Pickford. I'm not saying he had a bad game but he had one moment in the first half where he made a mistake and starting laughing again. GET HIM DROPPED. His attitude absolutely stinks. If De gea does that, then so what? If Neur does that, then so what? He is far from being able to laugh at his mistakes like he is the big 'I am'. Disgusting attitude and nobody in the club has had the guts to bring the hrrible little shit back down to earth. 

This result has pissed me off more than any other this season. 

I'm sick of this team, I'm sick of the manager, I'm sick of this owner. 

I'm sick of being an Everton fan. 

 

I apologise for the hot headed rant, and I know a lot of people will disagree with a lot of my points, I just wanted to vent. 

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Aidan, your entitled to vent your anger, I listend to the game so can't agree or disagree on a few points, but we were truely crap today, I can take a defeat if we put some effort in, but today's showing was poor against a very poor team.

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20 minutes ago, Aidan said:

I'm sick of this team, I'm sick of the manager, I'm sick of this owner. 

I'm sick of being an Everton fan. 

Sympathise with you completely. Doesn't even feel like an Everton team. 

I miss the dogs of war attitude, a team with pride that fights for the shirt and the fans. At the moment we have too many people here for the pay cheque. Need a while new spine CB, CM, AM. Leaders, winners, heart on their sleeve types.

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2 hours ago, Aidan said:

Been very patient with him and I can stand struggling up to a point where we find form but I cant stand absolutely crumbling under complacency against a team that bad. 

Finishing 9th or 10th this season is nowhere near good enough and we need a proper manager in now to take us forward. 

If gomes can't be arsed stepping up when it counts, he can fuck off - we don't need another luxury player. 

If calvert lewin can't put the ball in the net he can fuck off, he's a striker and unless he's Firminho that's his job and he needs to contribute. 

Zouma isn'tttt out player and doesn't really care if we win as long as he can get to where he wants to be. 

Sigurdsson scores goals and works hard. I wish I could say much more about him. Clearly he is not a number 10 who is going to unlock a defence for us. 

Marco Silva. Deery me. I could see 10 minutes in the system we had wasn't working. It took him 74 minutes today to make a substitute, despite having only 1 shot on target. 

And worst of all Pickford. I'm not saying he had a bad game but he had one moment in the first half where he made a mistake and starting laughing again. GET HIM DROPPED. His attitude absolutely stinks. If De gea does that, then so what? If Neur does that, then so what? He is far from being able to laugh at his mistakes like he is the big 'I am'. Disgusting attitude and nobody in the club has had the guts to bring the hrrible little shit back down to earth. 

This result has pissed me off more than any other this season. 

I'm sick of this team, I'm sick of the manager, I'm sick of this owner. 

I'm sick of being an Everton fan. 

 

I apologise for the hot headed rant, and I know a lot of people will disagree with a lot of my points, I just wanted to vent. 

Aidan mate the bet was only for £120 something calm down your blood pressure  won’t be able to cope 😀

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2 hours ago, hafnia said:

Let's see how he reacts to this.  Probably due a no show.... unacceptable but hopefully he kicks arse. 

Was that performance more the players attitude than the managers, I think so next game will give a better indication if they’ve had the kick they deserve. 

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18 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Was that performance more the players attitude than the managers, I think so next game will give a better indication if they’ve had the kick they deserve. 

One way or another the buck stops with the manager and I expect him to kick arse.

I'd have them in for training tomorrow. 

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43 minutes ago, Gwlad all over said:

Lucky you. I'm over 150 (which I'm allowed) so need to see the quack. EFC aren't helping!

Sad thing is... First time I've backed us in months. 

Sort of feel responsible. 

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It wouldn't be TT if there wasn't a major overreaction to a defeat :lol: 

We're not going to play well every game, and we're going to have games when we face a team that we should comfortably beat but we just don't show up. It's no reason to call for the manager's head, or say players need shipping out etc etc. We just have to learn how to still manage to get some sort of result from the game. Failing that we learn how to brush it off and bounce back in the next game and not let it impact on us for the next few weeks.

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4 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

It wouldn't be TT if there wasn't a major overreaction to a defeat :lol: 

We're not going to play well every game, and we're going to have games when we face a team that we should comfortably beat but we just don't show up. It's no reason to call for the manager's head, or say players need shipping out etc etc. We just have to learn how to still manage to get some sort of result from the game. Failing that we learn how to brush it off and bounce back in the next game and not let it impact on us for the next few weeks.

Yes, we need to bounce back and get a win against Utd next weekend, put yesterday behind us.

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It's never going to be a smooth ride guys! Just as you think we've sussed it....uuuuuuurgh!!!! Haha.

A pals accumulator was on for a £500 (ish) return from a £1.50 bet. The one let down? Everton!!! Haha. It's why I don't gamble. Fuck that. could have had a bag of crisps and a curly wurly with that £1.50.

All will be forgiven if we get at Man Utd.

As for Europe etc, absolutely I want us to be in Europe. Even via the awful qualifiers. Of course it extends the season, but it gets our club out there. Back on the European map.

It's going to be a tight battle for 7th. I thought we'd finish 7th anyway, as did many others. But if we get it, does that make it a good season? Not really. We shouldn't really be battling for 7th, ideally it should be ours. We should be battling for 6th and so on.

And the cup runs should be longer.

It's been a real rollercoaster season, as many of us thought it would be, plenty to build on. Good to get through the season with the same manager, and then next season there's a bit more pressure. Look forward to seeing more sorting out of the squad this pre season.

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1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

It wouldn't be TT if there wasn't a major overreaction to a defeat :lol: 

We're not going to play well every game, and we're going to have games when we face a team that we should comfortably beat but we just don't show up. It's no reason to call for the manager's head, or say players need shipping out etc etc. We just have to learn how to still manage to get some sort of result from the game. Failing that we learn how to brush it off and bounce back in the next game and not let it impact on us for the next few weeks.

You are getting awfully sensible lately Mark 😂

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29 minutes ago, StevO said:

You are getting awfully sensible lately Mark 😂

The blue skies and the sun have lightened his mood he’s almost becoming reasonable, I quite like this version of Rom😎

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3 hours ago, Shukes said:

He lost sack him.

DCL didn’t score, useless.

Gana didn’t get an assist, give him away.

Were Everton!

This is exactly what it’s like.

In all honesty we are about where I expected us to be at the start of season ( maybe 2/3 extra wins ) - my only concern is the bad patch in the middle of the season was actually horrible (i expected us to be about where we are but on a more consistent form basis). I didn’t expect Wolves and Leicester to be so consistent over the season. We will beat our points tally from last season and then next season will do the same.

 

Chelsea is a good example of how the league is right now. Near on every time I’ve watched them, they have been poor - yet sit 4th. 

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I said at the start of the season I would be expecting this season to be one of experimentation and building. I still look at it that way.

Lets see where we sit at the end and more importantly, what shape were in. Watch the pre-season and see how we come out of the blocks.

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3 hours ago, Shukes said:

I said at the start of the season I would be expecting this season to be one of experimentation and building. I still look at it that way.

Lets see where we sit at the end and more importantly, what shape were in. Watch the pre-season and see how we come out of the blocks.

There's been no experimenting beyond Richarlison getting moved from left wing, to striker, and now right wing. Tactics wise it's the same thing every week, with almost the same eleven players every week. 

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3 hours ago, pete0 said:

There's been no experimenting beyond Richarlison getting moved from left wing, to striker, and now right wing. Tactics wise it's the same thing every week, with almost the same eleven players every week. 

Possibly more because we haven’t got the depth of players needed, for all the money spent in the last 3 seasons we have a very limited squad of players to call on. 

I don’t know what sort of money will be at Brands and Silva’s disposal but when you think that they could end up splashing 50-60M on Gomes and Zouma and that wouldn’t had anymore options in team personnel it doesn’t look promising that we will see much more coming in. 

Does anyone have any indication what money the board have allocated for the summer transfer window, we need a big lump to try and get a proven scorer. 

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2 hours ago, Palfy said:

Possibly more because we haven’t got the depth of players needed, for all the money spent in the last 3 seasons we have a very limited squad of players to call on. 

I don’t know what sort of money will be at Brands and Silva’s disposal but when you think that they could end up splashing 50-60M on Gomes and Zouma and that wouldn’t had anymore options in team personnel it doesn’t look promising that we will see much more coming in. 

Does anyone have any indication what money the board have allocated for the summer transfer window, we need a big lump to try and get a proven scorer. 

Half the reason for that is we sent a load of players on loan with Brands saying the kids are good enough. Yet even with the smaller competition for places the only youngster with more minutes than last year is Lookman and most of them only come as subs whilst Bernard got blooded in/up to full fitness. 

Hopefully we get the both of them in otherwise Brands is gonna have an even bigger job. 

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I just go back to the first few games of the season. Two daft sendings off. We would have been flying if those games would have been wins and gave us the confidence. Like Chelsea everyone was raving about them at first and they had their blip. 

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1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Half the reason for that is we sent a load of players on loan with Brands saying the kids are good enough. Yet even with the smaller competition for places the only youngster with more minutes than last year is Lookman and most of them only come as subs whilst Bernard got blooded in/up to full fitness. 

Hopefully we get the both of them in otherwise Brands is gonna have an even bigger job. 

We must have some decent youngsters aren’t we top of the U23s league, thing is young lads at most PL clubs are going to struggle to break through with the pressures managers are under there scared to take the risk, look at Silva 4 games ago he was looking like he could be on the way out now he’s fighting for a Europa League place, so he’s going to be very reluctant to give youngsters a chance if it backfires he’s going to carry the can, and that usually means the bullet. 

The players we have out on loan would they get into our 1st team Vlasic maybe Sandro may have got an opportunity seen as DCL and Tosun aren’t scoring, Holgate  I don’t think would have made the bench most weeks, and realistically who of the others would you have back. 

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1 minute ago, Palfy said:

We must have some decent youngsters aren’t we top of the U23s league, thing is young lads at most PL clubs are going to struggle to break through with the pressures managers are under there scared to take the risk, look at Silva 4 games ago he was looking like he could be on the way out now he’s fighting for a Europa League place, so he’s going to be very reluctant to give youngsters a chance if it backfires he’s going to carry the can, and that usually means the bullet. 

The players we have out on loan would they get into our 1st team Vlasic maybe Sandro may have got an opportunity seen as DCL and Tosun aren’t scoring, Holgate  I don’t think would have made the bench most weeks, and realistically who of the others would you have back. 

We just won it, pay attention Palfy!

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8 hours ago, pete0 said:

There's been no experimenting beyond Richarlison getting moved from left wing, to striker, and now right wing. Tactics wise it's the same thing every week, with almost the same eleven players every week. 

Many said don't change a winning team after the Arsenal game, we didn't but it didn't work, and that team bar Jags in for Keane had two wins and draw from the previous 3, should we have changed the team each week?

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1 hour ago, Palfy said:

We must have some decent youngsters aren’t we top of the U23s league, thing is young lads at most PL clubs are going to struggle to break through with the pressures managers are under there scared to take the risk, look at Silva 4 games ago he was looking like he could be on the way out now he’s fighting for a Europa League place, so he’s going to be very reluctant to give youngsters a chance if it backfires he’s going to carry the can, and that usually means the bullet. 

The players we have out on loan would they get into our 1st team Vlasic maybe Sandro may have got an opportunity seen as DCL and Tosun aren’t scoring, Holgate  I don’t think would have made the bench most weeks, and realistically who of the others would you have back. 

Brands can't be too happy with the manager. Bigged up our youth who have done as expected yet Silva hasn't handed a single one a debut. The only one who really gets a look in is DCL but even that was very reluctantly after trying to force Richarlison into the role and finally excepting DCL is the best for the system after giving Tosun lion's share of the opportunity. Really think given what Brand's said about the youth he'd accept the short term dip if it meant the younger players were being developed.

Not saying they'd start every week but Vlasic, Mirallas, Besic, Holgate and even Martina and Bolasie (although I'd prefer Kenny and Vlasic) could have come in and played a few games and put pressure on the usual starting eleven to fight for their place. Kenny and Davies should have had more minutes, Coleman's form has been well off and Gana Gomes doesn't work, especially with Sigurdssen in front. 

Bar DCL the other 10 have been shoe ins all season. The system is the same every week, the team is the same every week, the manager has the same defeated glum face every week, the players have the same not arsed about the result demeanour walking off the pitch. It's stale and something really needs to change at the club. 

26 minutes ago, Wiggytop said:

Many said don't change a winning team after the Arsenal game, we didn't but it didn't work, and that team bar Jags in for Keane had two wins and draw from the previous 3, should we have changed the team each week?

Fulham just highlighted how poor the teams were we beat. We played the same system, with the same tactics and the same players as we did last week. Only change this week was the opposition and let's be honest Fulham done nothing tactically special, man for man are a much poorer side, the only difference was their players knew their jobs, stuck to position, and wanted to win compared to the poor disorganised West Ham (who had eleven goals between their starting eleven since Xmas) and Arsenal reserves who were missing their two main central midfielders. Even Cardiff were weakened when we played them. 

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10 hours ago, Palfy said:

We must have some decent youngsters aren’t we top of the U23s league, thing is young lads at most PL clubs are going to struggle to break through with the pressures managers are under there scared to take the risk, look at Silva 4 games ago he was looking like he could be on the way out now he’s fighting for a Europa League place, so he’s going to be very reluctant to give youngsters a chance if it backfires he’s going to carry the can, and that usually means the bullet. 

The players we have out on loan would they get into our 1st team Vlasic maybe Sandro may have got an opportunity seen as DCL and Tosun aren’t scoring, Holgate  I don’t think would have made the bench most weeks, and realistically who of the others would you have back. 

There doesn't seem to be any outstanding talents in that team. Hopefully some make the first team and surely most if not all make a decent career but not in the PL. Outstanding under 23 players are already in the first team.

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9 hours ago, pete0 said:

Not saying they'd start every week but Vlasic, Mirallas, Besic, Holgate and even Martina and Bolasie (although I'd prefer Kenny and Vlasic) could have come in and played a few games and put pressure on the usual starting eleven to fight for their place. Kenny and Davies should have had more minutes,

All mentioned except Holgate (from January) and Kenny have been out on loan, not sure how they could have had a start, and bar Vlasic, Holgate and Kenny, I don't want to se any of them pull on a blue shirt for us ever again.

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2 hours ago, Wiggytop said:

All mentioned except Holgate (from January) and Kenny have been out on loan, not sure how they could have had a start, and bar Vlasic, Holgate and Kenny, I don't want to se any of them pull on a blue shirt for us ever again.

Onyekuru?

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4 hours ago, Wiggytop said:

All mentioned except Holgate (from January) and Kenny have been out on loan, not sure how they could have had a start, and bar Vlasic, Holgate and Kenny, I don't want to se any of them pull on a blue shirt for us ever again.

Palfy asked about which of the ones out on loan. I'm not a fan of Bolasie or Martina, just the form of Coleman and the winners means a back up player should have been given a try. There's no pressure in the starting eleven to perform. Alex Ferguson always stressed the importance of competition, and having a winners mentality. Whereas we've got Silva and a bunch of jobbers. 

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16 hours ago, pete0 said:

Brands can't be too happy with the manager. Bigged up our youth who have done as expected yet Silva hasn't handed a single one a debut.

That is because they are all out on loan, which is good as hopefully they are gaining more experience.  Would think Brands would be fairly happy with that in my opinion.

Half way through the season, I think Antony Evans (was there yesterday celebrating with the lads) or Beni Baningime would have been the two from the u23s that might make it in but they both went on loan. Others from u23?  Bowler was motm in the victory that sealed the trophy but isn'tt ready yet.  Lots of people have been singing Gibson's praises but he gave away a bad pen in yesterday's game.  Went to ground on a dummie.  Good player just needs more experience.

As for youth with the first team, Kenny, Davies, and DCL have all gotten minutes.  Holgate and Dowell didn't get minutes but they also went out on loan in January.

In fact, I can't think of what I would have done differently to be honest.  Virginia over Stek maybe? But how many times has Stek played? Better to have Virginia getting game time.  

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1 hour ago, plaidharper said:

That is because they are all out on loan, which is good as hopefully they are gaining more experience.  Would think Brands would be fairly happy with that in my opinion.

Half way through the season, I think Antony Evans (was there yesterday celebrating with the lads) or Beni Baningime would have been the two from the u23s that might make it in but they both went on loan. Others from u23?  Bowler was motm in the victory that sealed the trophy but isn'ttt ready yet.  Lots of people have been singing Gibson's praises but he gave away a bad pen in yesterday's game.  Went to ground on a dummie.  Good player just needs more experience.

As for youth with the first team, Kenny, Davies, and DCL have all gotten minutes.  Holgate and Dowell didn't get minutes but they also went out on loan in January.

In fact, I can't think of what I would have done differently to be honest.  Virginia over Stek maybe? But how many times has Stek played? Better to have Virginia getting game time.  

Centre halves haven't been comfortable together all season, we should have kept Holgate and give him a proper run next to Zouma. After him going on loan we could have rewarded Feeney (who Unsworth speaks highly of) with a match to see if he is ready for the step up. 

Kenny got 1589 minutes last season (albeit thanks to injury to Coleman) but this year he's not been given the opportunity to build on that experience with only half the amount of minutes (789), only coming in when Coleman was unable to play. Even Baines was risked on injury over Kenny, which backfired on the manager doubly so, as one Baines had to come off injured (possibly gave a pen away as well if my memory is correct) and two, Kenny come on and gave an admiral performance showing he should have started in the first place. 

Gomes and Gana have hardly lit the world alight yet start almost every game with most of Davies' minutes coming from the period before Gomes come/settled and a brief spell when Gana had his head wobbled. He should be getting more and more minutes yet has dropped to only 975 minutes this year compared to 1892 and 1544 the previous two seasons. Add Baningime, Besic, and from reputation Charsley. 

Attacking wise we had a rotten spell after the Liverpool defeat (even Bolasie would have added something different during that spell with his unpredictability). Plus Bernard only struck his first goal the other week. Why not give the youngsters a try to freshen it up. With youth what they lack in experience they make up with raw talent plus the benefit of the opposition not knowing their strengths and weaknesses. Sigurdssen getting so many minutes is baffling too, he's anonymous at times yet starts every week. Dowell should have been getting more of a look in given Sigs form and Vlasic should have been kept and used to put pressure on him.

Beyond the players the manager should have looked at the system. People are saying DCL doesn't score enough but I don't remember many games were any of the strikers have missed chance after chance, mostly because I can't think of many games we created a hat full of chances for the striker. Rather than moan we've not got someone like Lukaku banging them in we should be looking at finding a system that creates more chances first (or use different players who would create more chances in the current system if that's a possibility). 

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7 hours ago, Haiku said:

Onyekuru?

Looks like he could be sold before he kicks a ball for us, apparently a host of European clubs interested in him where he doesn’t have a problem with work permit, yet still can’t get one here and that’s before we Brexit. 

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20 hours ago, pete0 said:

Even Baines was risked on injury over Kenny, which backfired on the manager doubly so, as one Baines had to come off injured (possibly gave a pen away as well if my memory is correct) and two, Kenny come on and gave an admiral performance showing he should have started in the first place. 

Ah.  Forgot about that.  And you are totally right.  Hopefully some more trust in Kenny going forward.

Not sure I can agree with the rest of it.  Not changes I would have made this season with the personnel you suggest but certainly some of the things you mentioned I would be trying to address in the summer. 

Also Bolasie?  You are having a laugh.  The power on my laptop would run out before I could type out all the ballers (from our team to pub teams) I would trust before that headless chicken.

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41 minutes ago, plaidharper said:

Ah.  Forgot about that.  And you are totally right.  Hopefully some more trust in Kenny going forward.

Not sure I can agree with the rest of it.  Not changes I would have made this season with the personnel you suggest but certainly some of the things you mentioned I would be trying to address in the summer. 

Also Bolasie?  You are having a laugh.  The power on my laptop would run out before I could type out all the ballers (from our team to pub teams) I would trust before that headless chicken.

Bolasie is Niasse-like. He's not great but his unorthodox way of playing manages to get a few goals, in his 13 games for us before his injury he got 1 goal and 4 assists and was a nuisance (although useless in some games but aren't all wingers?). Given the system we've played this season he'd have offered some more energy than Sigurdssen, Bolasie has that turn of pace that Gylfi lacks and would probs be better suited to the role pressing from the front or even as competition for DCL up top. 

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1 hour ago, Gwlad all over said:

Bolasie does have a top attitude even if he's not what we need going forward.

He’d need to because only someone with a good attitude could be such a shit footballer and end up in the PL. 

So yes, I’d definitely go along with the Niasse comparison by Pete. 

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