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AlbanyNYToffee

Path to Top 6

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We're nearly unanimous in feeling anything less than top 6 in 19/20 is a disappointment. Which we have every right to feel. So...what is the path to getting there?

City - nailed on top 6 unless Guardiola leaves. Even if that did happen got to be 95% they finish top 6.

Liverpool - pains to say but again nailed on top 6 if Klopp and Salah stay. Even if they both leave it still has to be 90% they finish top 6.

Spurs - could only fall to 7th if Poch leaves 

That leaves Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd: Chelsea have the transfer ban and look like losing Hazard. Arsenal should strengthen an already good squad. Man Utd likely to spend big this summer. 

Arsenal look the strongest there so looks like we'd have to compete with them if we want 4th while Chelsea and Man Utd are competition for 5/6. 

The other thing that needs consideration/watching over the summer is who else outside the top 6 has our aspirations. Wolves and Leicester look strong competition. 

What do you think blues?

 

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3 hours ago, AlbanyNYToffee said:

We're nearly unanimous in feeling anything less than top 6 in 19/20 is a disappointment. Which we have every right to feel. So...what is the path to getting there?

City - nailed on top 6 unless Guardiola leaves. Even if that did happen got to be 95% they finish top 6.

Liverpool - pains to say but again nailed on top 6 if Klopp and Salah stay. Even if they both leave it still has to be 90% they finish top 6.

Spurs - could only fall to 7th if Poch leaves 

That leaves Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd: Chelsea have the transfer ban and look like losing Hazard. Arsenal should strengthen an already good squad. Man Utd likely to spend big this summer. 

Arsenal look the strongest there so looks like we'd have to compete with them if we want 4th while Chelsea and Man Utd are competition for 5/6. 

The other thing that needs consideration/watching over the summer is who else outside the top 6 has our aspirations. Wolves and Leicester look strong competition. 

What do you think blues?

 

first off i would take a top half finish and a cup win (league or FA).  it's europa and a trophy, double whammy, so i don't think we necessarily have to get top 6.  but to answer your question:

top 4

CIty - should win the league again

Liverpool - should be first loser again

Spurs - depends on poch, CL title and poch out the door and they are a tiny squad on a tiny budget with a skint owner, it could go south quickly.  otherwise top 4 for them.

 

the 4th spot is up for grabs.  Chelsea without Hazard and a transfer ban is akin to watford talent wise, we should be above them.  arsenal look weak with no defense or midfield just auba and lacazette.  united are a shit show.  wolves will be tough but hopefully europa will derail them.  leicester should be decent because i think rodgers is a good manager, but i don't think they will be near us. Vardy's end is near and it could well be next campaign, ihenacho is a joke (some on here wanted him, not me) and their talent is maddison and tielemans really.

 

if marco goes all out for the league per moshiri request due to the most money gained there i see 4th as the goal, i really do.  now if he prioritizes a cup win i could see another 8th type finish but hopefully some hardware.

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Think top will be hard for anyone to catch City, they just have too much quality in depth. But the rest are vulnerable and almost any club with the right recruitment and management could break into the top 6 next year. 

Liverpool if VAR is used correctly won't come as close again. Plus the other managers should now be wise to their system. Klopp finished 8th in his final season at Dortmund. 

Chelsea have a transfer ban and the players are disgruntled with the manager. Add to that it looks likely Hazard is on his way. 

Spurs don't have that much quality in their squad. Eriksen is their brain and Son their heart. Lose one of them or the manager and they will drop places. 

Arsenal are up in arms. They need a whole new back four and a couple of wingers. 

Man U, similarly to Arsenal need a whole new back four and wingers... and centre mids... and a striker. Basically their squad needs putting in the bin 🚮 

 

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If you add a 15 goal a season striker to this current team then that’s challenging top 6 right there. Throw in a rb on the same level as Digne and Onyekuru offer what his potential suggest - big cause for excitement. First we need to bridge gap in points between us and 6th.

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Let’s remember though that four of these teams are competing for Europe’s top prizes. 

Maybe they aren’t as poor as we imagine, but rather we have caught up a little. 

We need to make 7th place our own and aim to fight for the two places above. 

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4 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Let’s remember though that four of these teams are competing for Europe’s top prizes. 

Maybe they aren’t as poor as we imagine, but rather we have caught up a little. 

We need to make 7th place our own and aim to fight for the two places above. 

Shukes we haven't caught up a little quite the reverse we have been lapped in the last 3-4 seasons the points difference between us and 6th place is getting larger not smaller, and surly the reality of our position is what happens over a whole season and the points we get.

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5 hours ago, Palfy said:

Shukes we haven't caught up a little quite the reverse we have been lapped in the last 3-4 seasons the points difference between us and 6th place is getting larger not smaller, and surly the reality of our position is what happens over a whole season and the points we get.

And we have our points for years dont we?

Surely you can look at the bigger picture and see that although the last third of the season doesn’t suggest consistency, it does show that we are competing against the top six teams. And isn’t our form suggesting we are top four now? Or is that another mythical fact haha.

A lot of fans can’t see past the rebuilding and changes we are making. We have changed manager, players, staff, and it’s taken a season to get the managers vision realised. But you have to give credit where due, and see that we have improved. 

I really struggle to see how you can view last season as better than this? Crazy notion, you should lay of the pop 😉

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I'm not getting my hopes up for top 6 just yet. We need serious strength in depth. I'll have a better feel for where we will finish after this summer transfer window closes. I will say that 7th should be the minimum but not necessarily the expectation.

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7 hours ago, Shukes said:

And we have our points for years dont we?

Surely you can look at the bigger picture and see that although the last third of the season doesn’t suggest consistency, it does show that we are competing against the top six teams. And isn’t our form suggesting we are top four now? Or is that another mythical fact haha.

A lot of fans can’t see past the rebuilding and changes we are making. We have changed manager, players, staff, and it’s taken a season to get the managers vision realised. But you have to give credit where due, and see that we have improved. 

I really struggle to see how you can view last season as better than this? Crazy notion, you should lay of the pop 😉

Well all I can say to that is the league table doesn’t lie, and of course we played better football than last season but we haven’t made no in roads on the top 6 from last season even though we have improved as a team the gulf is still as big. 

And I never drink 🍷 on a Monday morning before 10:00 am 🤥😀

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The form table of 2019 puts us 3rd. Overall only 3 teams had more clean sheets. We’ve instilled an actual work ethic and style of play that gets goals. Despite the dip mid season, we’ve responded very very well and I’m actually positive about next season. 

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6 minutes ago, Matt said:

The form table of 2019 puts us 3rd. Overall only 3 teams had more clean sheets. We’ve instilled an actual work ethic and style of play that gets goals. Despite the dip mid season, we’ve responded very very well and I’m actually positive about next season. 

Where did you see that Matt? We're actually 8th.

Capture.JPG

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1 hour ago, MikeO said:

Where did you see that Matt? We're actually 8th.

Capture.JPG

Honestly was sure you’d posted it somewhere :lol: maybe it was form from March / after the 17 day break? 

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17 hours ago, MikeO said:

Where did you see that Matt? We're actually 8th.

Capture.JPG

Really highlights how good City were in the second half of the season ☹️. We weren’t that far off third though which shows what can be achieved.

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4 hours ago, Deacs said:

Really highlights how good City were in the second half of the season ☹️. We weren’t that far off third though which shows what can be achieved.

The last 11 we got 21 points.

18 goals for

5 goals against

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If someone has the time, can you have a look at games before the first derby and after the 17 day break in Feb? Those 2 periods would reflect our potential quite well I think. 

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1 hour ago, Btay said:

The last 11 we got 21 points.

18 goals for

5 goals against

What Btay said (two farcical self inflicted  losses included)....

1 hour ago, Matt said:

If someone has the time, can you have a look at games before the first derby and after the 17 day break in Feb? Those 2 periods would reflect our potential quite well I think. 

...and before the Livepool game we had 22 points from 13 games.

Added together = 43 points from 24 games = 1.79 ppg which if we'd done all season would've got us 68 points. Top six.

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24 minutes ago, MikeO said:

What Btay said (two farcical self inflicted  losses included)....

...and before the Livepool game we had 22 points from 13 games.

Added together = 43 points from 24 games = 1.79 ppg which if we'd done all season would've got us 68 points. Top six.

And the form in the middle, 11 points from 14 games = 0.79 ppg which would have relegated us with 30 points. 

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43 minutes ago, MikeO said:

What Btay said (two farcical self inflicted  losses included)....

...and before the Livepool game we had 22 points from 13 games.

Added together = 43 points from 24 games = 1.79 ppg which if we'd done all season would've got us 68 points. Top six.

Cheers mate. Thought as much. 

14 minutes ago, pete0 said:

And the form in the middle, 11 points from 14 games = 0.79 ppg which would have relegated us with 30 points. 

Also true, however not only was that the most congested period, it’s the minority of the season.

For 2/3rds of the season we showed top 6 form. The fact that we went from relegation form during the middle third of the season to top 3 form in the last 3rd is massively encouraging. 

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1 hour ago, Matt said:

Cheers mate. Thought as much. 

Also true, however not only was that the most congested period, it’s the minority of the season.

For 2/3rds of the season we showed top 6 form. The fact that we went from relegation form during the middle third of the season to top 3 form in the last 3rd is massively encouraging. 

That’s the difference from Koeman and Martinez who were unable to turn things around. Makes me optimistic.

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1 minute ago, Deacs said:

That’s the difference from Koeman and Martinez who were unable to turn things around. Makes me optimistic.

Exactly, plus Silva et al had to undo all the shite from the previous 2 years. Unlike Martinez, who had a defensive platform to build on, they had a toxic quagmire to build on. Here’s hoping they’ve drained the shite from the club so they can continue to build  

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1 hour ago, Matt said:

Also true, however not only was that the most congested period, it’s the minority of the season.

For 2/3rds of the season we showed top 6 form. The fact that we went from relegation form during the middle third of the season to top 3 form in the last 3rd is massively encouraging. 

Start was good, middle was awful (sackably bad), end was good on paper but I'm not convinced by how we played. We're not creating many chances* and struggle if the other team put a bit of effort in. 

*in our biggest win over the period, the 4 nil against united our expected goals was only 1.52 and that's against a team that was all over the shop and not putting any effort in (they ran 9km less than us and their players even apologised about their performance). Looking at expected goals we only managed to be expected to get over 2.5 goals in 3 games all season, compared to less 1.5 in 20 matches. Using the worst of the top six as a yardstick, Man U had an expectation of over 2.5 goals in 10 matches and less than 1.5 in 14 games. 

Also noticed this damning stat to add to Marco's collection. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/bet365/status/1093278927563431936

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11 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Start was good, middle was awful (sackably bad), end was good on paper but I'm not convinced by how we played. We're not creating many chances* and struggle if the other team put a bit of effort in. 

*in our biggest win over the period, the 4 nil against united our expected goals was only 1.52 and that's against a team that was all over the shop and not putting any effort in (they ran 9km less than us and their players even apologised about their performance). Looking at expected goals we only managed to be expected to get over 2.5 goals in 3 games all season, compared to less 1.5 in 20 matches. Using the worst of the top six as a yardstick, Man U had an expectation of over 2.5 goals in 10 matches and less than 1.5 in 14 games. 

Also noticed this damning stat to add to Marco's collection. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/bet365/status/1093278927563431936

You are kidding with that “stat” right?

do you also not recognise that a manager in sackable form turning it around and finishing with the record he did in the last 12 games is not impressive? Or did nothing change in your eyes? If you say nothing changed, you are truly beyond help. 

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9 minutes ago, Matt said:

Exactly, plus Silva et al had to undo all the shite from the previous 2 years. Unlike Martinez, who had a defensive platform to build on, they had a toxic quagmire to build on. Here’s hoping they’ve drained the shite from the club so they can continue to build  

Martinez had a good squad but first thing he done was implement his own spine into the team and the players around those that Martinez had have all been replaced with better players bar Coleman.

Martinez created the team around Stones, McCarthy, Barry, Barkley, Lukaku. 

Compare that to Keane, Gomes, Gana, Sigurdssen, Tosun/Richarlison/DCL. 

All the other players around them bar right back (Coleman not being as good as he used too) has been improved on. Pickford, Zouma, Digne, Bernard, Richarlison compared to Howard, Williams and Baines who were all past their best, Mirallas, Deulofeu. 

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Just now, pete0 said:

Martinez had a good squad but first thing he done was implement his own spine into the team and the players around those that Martinez had have all been replaced with better players bar Coleman.

Martinez created the team around Stones, McCarthy, Barry, Barkley, Lukaku. 

Compare that to Keane, Gomes, Gana, Sigurdssen, Tosun/Richarlison/DCL. 

All the other players around them bar right back (Coleman not being as good as he used too) has been improved on. Pickford, Zouma, Digne, Bernard, Richarlison compared to Howard, Williams and Baines who were all past their best, Mirallas, Deulofeu. 

What’s your point? The squad was improved, that’s normal. Compare the spine of Martinez to the players who were there 3 years before him and you’ll see a greatly improved squad again. It’s just evolution! 

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4 minutes ago, Matt said:

You are kidding with that “stat” right?

do you also not recognise that a manager in sackable form turning it around and finishing with the record he did in the last 12 games is not impressive? Or did nothing change in your eyes? If you say nothing changed, you are truly beyond help. 

I'm still waiting for you to say what changed. As other than the siren and crowd atmosphere there's been little different on the pitch. We still do the same things mostly, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but when it doesn't it's mostly because the other team put a bit of effort in. 

Of the wins against the top 6 that many have made a fuss about we were mostly just lucky with the fixture calendar. We met the three of them at their worst (as we did West Ham, who had Perez in midfield). Even Cardiff beat United away this season (something we've not done against a top 6 since Oviedo beat Moyes' Man United). Talking of Cardiff that were missing their best players too when we played them. 

We had a brilliant first half an hour against Burnley, but then a tense hour seeing the game out. A good draw against Liverpool (although Klopp dropped a bollocks by going defensive). Failed to take advantage of a weakened Spurs with one eye elsewhere and struggled to break down Crystal Palace only creating one chance. Then there's the defeats, completely capitulating against a very poor Newcastle side, losing a 2 nil half time lead for only the second time in our existence, 365 occasions. The Fulham game was embarrassing too, already relegated and beat us just because they wanted it more and our manager stubbornly stuck to the same old formula, it was similar to Martinez at his worst. We just didn't do anything with the ball. Similar could be said about our game against Watford. 

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23 minutes ago, Matt said:

What’s your point? The squad was improved, that’s normal. Compare the spine of Martinez to the players who were there 3 years before him and you’ll see a greatly improved squad again. It’s just evolution! 

My point is that the spine is crucial and out current one isn'tt strong enough. We had in most part a solid spine with Moyes. Since the takeover we haven't. We've improved the players around the spine and the squad overall but we've not addressed the most important positions, those that make up the backbone of the team. The reason we've been described as a 'nothing team' this year. 

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59 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Start was good, middle was awful (sackably bad), end was good on paper but I'm not convinced by how we played. We're not creating many chances* and struggle if the other team put a bit of effort in. 

*in our biggest win over the period, the 4 nil against united our expected goals was only 1.52 and that's against a team that was all over the shop and not putting any effort in (they ran 9km less than us and their players even apologised about their performance). Looking at expected goals we only managed to be expected to get over 2.5 goals in 3 games all season, compared to less 1.5 in 20 matches. Using the worst of the top six as a yardstick, Man U had an expectation of over 2.5 goals in 10 matches and less than 1.5 in 14 games. 

Also noticed this damning stat to add to Marco's collection. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/bet365/status/1093278927563431936

Just looked at those stats on that link. Wow shows just how well we did doesn’t it.

A team with a higher expected goals get whalloped. 

Your not a half full kinda guy are you PeteO haha!

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19 minutes ago, pete0 said:

My point is that the spine is crucial and out current one isn'ttt strong enough. We had in most part a solid spine with Moyes. Since the takeover we haven't. We've improved the players around the spine and the squad overall but we've not addressed the most important positions, those that make up the backbone of the team. The reason we've been described as a 'nothing team' this year. 

Who described us as a nothing team this year?

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1 hour ago, Shukes said:

Just looked at those stats on that link. Wow shows just how well we did doesn’t it.

A team with a higher expected goals get whalloped. 

Your not a half full kinda guy are you PeteO haha!

Just look at United. The signs were there but they had a good run and threw a contract at OGS too fast. 

Atm our results are papering over the cracks. The spine or the manager needs changing, preferably both. 

1 hour ago, StevO said:

Who described us as a nothing team this year?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/marco-silvas-everton-become-epitome-15773068.amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/i-dont-know-what-everton-15773235.amp

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Just Andy Hunter after a defeat against a very impressive Wolves side then? And Jermaine Jenas doesn’t know “what Everton are anymore”. Both in the first week of February? I just wanted to confirm who’s opinion we were discussing, and when. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2019/apr/21/everton-manchester-united-premier-league-match-report

Andy Hunter, 11 weeks after calling us a nothing team called us “slick, expansive and clinical” and “one complete team performance”.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/apr/07/everton-arsenal-premier-league-match-report

Andy Hunter, a couple of weeks before the quotes above, called Everton “dynamic, industrious and resilient in every department” and “work rate has improved immeasurably, along with their form, and their growing confidence”. 

Maybe Andy Hunter watched more of Everton and thought that we were a nothing team and went on to improve later in the season.

Couldnt care less what Jenas thinks, apart from Danny Murphy and Phil Thompson I don’t think there are many worse pundits out there. 

Im happy with the progress we’ve made in the second half of the season, I think most of us are. 

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52 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Just look at United. The signs were there but they had a good run and threw a contract at OGS too fast. 

Atm our results are papering over the cracks. The spine or the manager needs changing, preferably both. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/marco-silvas-everton-become-epitome-15773068.amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/i-dont-know-what-everton-15773235.amp

That the same Utd that got relegated as they were so poor? Same as Arsenal and Chelsea! And spurs who just about failed everywhere this season!

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19 minutes ago, StevO said:

Just Andy Hunter after a defeat against a very impressive Wolves side then? And Jermaine Jenas doesn’t know “what Everton are anymore”. Both in the first week of February? I just wanted to confirm who’s opinion we were discussing, and when. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2019/apr/21/everton-manchester-united-premier-league-match-report

Andy Hunter, 11 weeks after calling us a nothing team called us “slick, expansive and clinical” and “one complete team performance”.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/apr/07/everton-arsenal-premier-league-match-report

Andy Hunter, a couple of weeks before the quotes above, called Everton “dynamic, industrious and resilient in every department” and “work rate has improved immeasurably, along with their form, and their growing confidence”. 

Maybe Andy Hunter watched more of Everton and thought that we were a nothing team and went on to improve later in the season.

Couldnt care less what Jenas thinks, apart from Danny Murphy and Phil Thompson I don’t think there are many worse pundits out there. 

Im happy with the progress we’ve made in the second half of the season, I think most of us are. 

I don't understand why you're discounting Jenas' personal experience. He said, 

"I'm not 100% sure I know what Everton are really anymore.

Goodison used to be a really tough place to go and play football, you knew you were going for a tough game.

I'm not 100% sure I know what Everton are really anymore."

Think most would agree the team is too soft. 

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3 minutes ago, pete0 said:

I'm not 100% sure I know what Everton are really anymore."

I'd wager a significant wedge that his opinion would be very different if you asked him today.

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12 minutes ago, Shukes said:

That the same Utd that got relegated as they were so poor? Same as Arsenal and Chelsea! And spurs who just about failed everywhere this season!

The same united that sacked their last manager for apparently not doing well enough. The manager everyone laughed at for saying second was a great achievement for that squad. 

New manager come in and they had a purple patch. But then reality set in and everyone now agrees Mourinho wasn't over exaggerating. 

Point is we've had a little purple patch, mostly thanks to the timing of the fixtures, but that doesn't mean the problems before the run of form aren't still there. We've done very little in the run to give confidence. We're not creating enough and there's no plan B. If the opposition dig in we have no answer. 

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30 minutes ago, pete0 said:

The same united that sacked their last manager for apparently not doing well enough. The manager everyone laughed at for saying second was a great achievement for that squad. 

New manager come in and they had a purple patch. But then reality set in and everyone now agrees Mourinho wasn't over exaggerating. 

Point is we've had a little purple patch, mostly thanks to the timing of the fixtures, but that doesn't mean the problems before the run of form aren't still there. We've done very little in the run to give confidence. We're not creating enough and there's no plan B. If the opposition dig in we have no answer. 

Yes that’s the one, the one that didn’t het relegated as they were crap, but got to Europe.

As did Arsenal... aren’t they still there?

As did Spurs... ahem... still there.

Chelsea... getting boring now isn’t it 😉

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1 hour ago, pete0 said:

The same united that sacked their last manager for apparently not doing well enough. The manager everyone laughed at for saying second was a great achievement for that squad. 

New manager come in and they had a purple patch. But then reality set in and everyone now agrees Mourinho wasn't over exaggerating. 

Point is we've had a little purple patch, mostly thanks to the timing of the fixtures, but that doesn't mean the problems before the run of form aren't still there. We've done very little in the run to give confidence. We're not creating enough and there's no plan B. If the opposition dig in we have no answer. 

I get what your saying PeteO, I just don’t agree. The football has looked much better to me. We are creating more chances, that’s proven in the stats. And these teams were not getting beat each week as you say.... other than Utd. 3 of them got to euro finals.

Not saying everything is fixed, just that it’s not as broken as you make out.

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2 hours ago, pete0 said:

The same united that sacked their last manager for apparently not doing well enough. The manager everyone laughed at for saying second was a great achievement for that squad. 

New manager come in and they had a purple patch. But then reality set in and everyone now agrees Mourinho wasn't over exaggerating. 

Point is we've had a little purple patch, mostly thanks to the timing of the fixtures, but that doesn't mean the problems before the run of form aren't still there. We've done very little in the run to give confidence. We're not creating enough and there's no plan B. If the opposition dig in we have no answer. 

We had 2 “purple” patches amounting to 2 thirds of the season.

And you’re waiting for me to say what changed again?! I mean... :doh: you explain relegation form to top 3 form without some kind of change and I’ll nominate you for a theoretical quantum physics professor-hood. 

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1 hour ago, Shukes said:

I get what your saying PeteO, I just don’t agree. The football has looked much better to me. We are creating more chances, that’s proven in the stats. And these teams were not getting beat each week as you say.... other than Utd. 3 of them got to euro finals.

Not saying everything is fixed, just that it’s not as broken as you make out.

They all had problems going into the games with us. Arsenal had no midfield, united had just crashed out of the cup and Chelsea were/are disgruntled with the playing style/manager. West Ham had a defeat coming if you look at their forum they were getting the results not playing well, similar to what I'm saying about Everton. 

Look at the defeats, we set up the same as we did in the wins. Only difference I can see in those games is the effort from the opposition. It should take more than effort to beat us. We used to be a tough side but now we're pushovers. Why did we not beat Watford, Newcastle, Fulham, and Palace? 

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50 minutes ago, Matt said:

We had 2 “purple” patches amounting to 2 thirds of the season.

And you’re waiting for me to say what changed again?! I mean... :doh: you explain relegation form to top 3 form without some kind of change and I’ll nominate you for a theoretical quantum physics professor-hood. 

I wouldn't call the start a purple patch. We only beat teams you'd expect us to. Plus again fixtures are favourable in this period, if anything I'd argue we should we should be beating West Ham and Huddersfield at home. 

Wins: Soton, Fulham, Palace, Brighton, Cardiff, Leicester 

Draws: Wolves, Bournemouth, Huddersfield, Chelsea

Loses: West Ham, Arsenal, Man U

Already explained our turn of form to BBC mostly due to the opposition not turning up/it being a good time to play them. What was the difference in how we played in the games we never won? 

 

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4 hours ago, pete0 said:

I don't understand why you're discounting Jenas' personal experience. He said, 

"I'm not 100% sure I know what Everton are really anymore.

Goodison used to be a really tough place to go and play football, you knew you were going for a tough game.

I'm not 100% sure I know what Everton are really anymore."

Think most would agree the team is too soft. 

I don’t think he’s a very good pundit, which is why I discount his opinion. If it came from Neville or Carragher, I’d probably take more notice. 

And as Mike said, he probably thinks different now. 

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14 hours ago, pete0 said:

I don't understand why you're discounting Jenas' personal experience. He said, 

"I'm not 100% sure I know what Everton are really anymore.

Goodison used to be a really tough place to go and play football, you knew you were going for a tough game.

I'm not 100% sure I know what Everton are really anymore."

Think most would agree the team is too soft. 

Is this the team that play at Goodison Park and didn't concede a goal there after February?

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Been reading all these posts and in my opinion the hype that some are displaying over the last eleven games of the season, is let's say going to lead you massively disappointed next season, unless we can add two or three really good signings.

To think that we are going to carry on from there into next season and display the form of a team with the ability to finishing third or even top six is very fanciful, yes beating Chelsea Arsenal and Utd in that run was the highlights of our season for me, with the draws against the Shiite and Spurs, but for me that wasn't the reality of how far we have improved or come and we have improved from last season don't get me wrong, it was more to do with how poorly they were playing as well.

The performances against  the lesser teams in that eleven games run are still concerning enough for me to say that at this present time we are club with a lot to do, and I'm not going to let the end of last season cloud my judgment for next season, although if we don't finish in the top six I will be disappointed as I always am, but some of you are going to be devastated because your riding this wave of euphoria and you believe that we are going to carry on how we finished off last season third in the stats.:unsure:

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12 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Been reading all these posts and in my opinion the hype that some are displaying over the last eleven games of the season, is let's say going to lead you massively disappointed next season, unless we can add two or three really good signings.

To think that we are going to carry on from there into next season and display the form of a team with the ability to finishing third or even top six is very fanciful, yes beating Chelsea Arsenal and Utd in that run was the highlights of our season for me, with the draws against the Shiite and Spurs, but for me that wasn't the reality of how far we have improved or come and we have improved from last season don't get me wrong, it was more to do with how poorly they were playing as well.

The performances against  the lesser teams in that eleven games run are still concerning enough for me to say that at this present time we are club with a lot to do, and I'm not going to let the end of last season cloud my judgment for next season, although if we don't finish in the top six I will be disappointed as I always am, but some of you are going to be devastated because your riding this wave of euphoria and you believe that we are going to carry on how we finished off last season third in the stats.:unsure:

Of course it may be a false dawn, but it could also be the next step.

If you choose to live your life never stepping of a kerb just in case you twist an ankle, you will never see what’s out in the world. 

I just choose to jump of that kerb and see what happens.

I’m a believer in the laws of attraction friend.

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4 hours ago, Shukes said:

Yet even with these problems, 3 of them get to Euro finals. 

I get what your saying, we’re such a lucky team that teams only ever have problems on and off field when playing us. 

I mean it would be daft to say that our set up limits these teams and stops them playing. 

Yet when were beaten, it’s the opposite isn’t it PeteO, it’s because we were at full strength but the other team just tried harder. 

Lets be straight here. You see the team in a different way than the majority, and that’s fine. Your down on the team and club at the moment and look for negatives.

Im a pretty positive guy and will always look for the positives. You can see in my posts I’m a glass half full type. 

What we need to accept, mainly you 😉 is that yours, or mine, or any others opinions are just that PeteO, opinions. Your trying your best to prove them as facts, while ignoring actual facts.

The most glaring example is this not creating chances comment you keep going on about. Yet in one match we created more chances than Sam did in his whole tenure. That wasn’t something is fans made up, but a factual stat put out by the ssp team. And this is where I struggle to understand where your coming from sometimes.

They got there on prior form. Man u had new manager syndrome for a purple patch. Chelsea and Arsenal both had new managers too that are now struggling as the league has more knowledge of what they are going to do, and in Chelsea's case the squad aren't happy either. 

The wheels have fell off all them come the end of the season looking at the form table between the three of them they only got 5 wins. There's little reason to be hyped. 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/formtabelle/wettbewerb/GB1

Man U were plop they'd just crashed out of both cups and the honeymoon period with the new manager was over. They never closed down in the game to the point Matic come out and apologised. Arsenal were missing their main midfield in Teirerra and Xhaka as well as a few other players. West Ham had no goal threat in the players they fielded they were all off form or hardly used, they even had Lucas in midfield. Cardiff were missing three of their key men too, Arter who has a bit of quality and Camarasa and Paterson (come on as a sub). Chelsea much like ourselves at Newcastle imploded, don't remember anyone giving credit to Newcastle for that one so why should we take it when it happens in our favour. 

Burnley we beat because we were the better side, they turned up and gave it a go and we were terrific for the first 30 but then the last hour was nervy. 

As much as Palace made it hard for us, we made it easy for them. They knew exactly what we were gonna do and stopped us. Fulham beat us on desire alone. Bar Burnley none of the teams we beat in the run at the end were giving it a proper go. I don't see how you can use those games to be optimistic. 

We played exactly the same way against Fulham as we did United. What would you say the difference was if it's not man u having a bad day? 

Don't see how comparing the unbalanced mess Alladyce had to this team is fair. We had DCL on the wing compared to a Brazilian international, we had a leggy Baines and misfit RB Martina playing left back, now we Digne who's like a young Baines. The only fair comparison is that given this squad a manager should do much much better than last year's. Yet Silva has only closed the gap to 6th by 2 points and finished in the same place in the league. Regardless the point still stands we're not creating enough this season and it needs addressing. 

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Palfy seems like the kinda guy who orders filet mignon and it’s perfect and then bitches the green beans he got with them were under seasoned.  FFS just enjoy the game and wins for now.  Some seriously fickle people on here that just can’t enjoy a win and good run.

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18 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

Palfy seems like the kinda guy who orders filet mignon and it’s perfect and then bitches the green beans he got with them were under seasoned.  FFS just enjoy the game and wins for now.  Some seriously fickle people on here that just can’t enjoy a win and good run.

You’re making me hungry Mark 🤤

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54 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

Palfy seems like the kinda guy who orders filet mignon and it’s perfect and then bitches the green beans he got with them were under seasoned.  FFS just enjoy the game and wins for now.  Some seriously fickle people on here that just can’t enjoy a win and good run.

Fickle is getting carried away with the wins against teams that weren't up to scratch on the day. 

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Well the difference was that we turned up against these teams. It’s as simple as that PeteO. Against Fulham ( you should have watched the highlights, you would t be asking the. ), we just didn’t turn up. We were flat and created nothing. Against Utd, we created over 20 (twenty) chances. 

Again, how can’t you see the difference? 

Arsenal are in a Euro final. They weren’t in it mid season.... they got there at the end of the season, along with Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea. They weren’t given these finals due to how they did earlier in the season.... like it or not, they earnt their right to be there.

We won these games by playing positive football. We lost against Newcastle in the last third of the game. We lost against Fulham because we weren't positive. 

You seem to hate to admit to us doing anything good, not sure why, but I see it. 

Im not going to reply to anything more unless it’s something new and to be frank, real. This is not going to go anywhere as we both see it differently. 

Mid we get relegated with the same team we have now, next season, I will be the first to admit you told us so. If we end up anywhere above 8th, then I expect you to do the same. 

Sorry wrong wording. I don’t expect you to, but I think you should 😉

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1 minute ago, pete0 said:

Fickle is getting carried away with the wins against teams that weren't up to scratch on the day. 

That’s not fickle in any way whatsoever. It’s called being a fan of Everton who enjoy to see their team win. It’s what the sport is all about. 

Its what happens on the pitch that counts, duck all to do with this expected goals shit. Grab a shirt, kiss the badge and get back to being a football fan again.

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1 hour ago, Shukes said:

Well the difference was that we turned up against these teams. It’s as simple as that PeteO. Against Fulham ( you should have watched the highlights, you would t be asking the. ), we just didn’t turn up. We were flat and created nothing. Against Utd, we created over 20 (twenty) chances. 

Again, how can’t you see the difference? 

Arsenal are in a Euro final. They weren’t in it mid season.... they got there at the end of the season, along with Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea. They weren’t given these finals due to how they did earlier in the season.... like it or not, they earnt their right to be there.

We won these games by playing positive football. We lost against Newcastle in the last third of the game. We lost against Fulham because we weren't positive. 

You seem to hate to admit to us doing anything good, not sure why, but I see it. 

Im not going to reply to anything more unless it’s something new and to be frank, real. This is not going to go anywhere as we both see it differently. 

Mid we get relegated with the same team we have now, next season, I will be the first to admit you told us so. If we end up anywhere above 8th, then I expect you to do the same. 

Sorry wrong wording. I don’t expect you to, but I think you should 😉

We turned up to Fulham just as we did the other games. Just they fought back. United were awful, they didn't close down and were all over the shop with a centre half at the back and players who just don't want to be there any more and won't dig deep. Even Cardiff beat them ffs. 

If the expectation is 8th there's the difference. I'm not happy with 8th, and unless it comes down to the wire 7th isn'tt good enough either. Martinez got us 5th, Koeman got us 7th, and last season Alladyce got the worst Everton side since Walter Smith to 8th. Silva hasn't done his job, the gap is massive from us to 6th. He's had Digne, Zouma, Gomes, Richarlison, Bernard and only closed the gap by two points. Compare them to the players they come in for Williams/Jags both legs gone and were playing next to an injured Keane making him even more cumbersome, add Baines and Coleman both coming back from injuries and we must have had the most immobile back four in the league, and then it wasn't much better in midfield with a leggy Rooney. We lacked pace that much DCL an inexperienced striker was playing on the wing. The team was completely unbalanced and slow yet we've only managed to close the gap by two points. The manager has a lot to answer for. 

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

That’s not fickle in any way whatsoever. It’s called being a fan of Everton who enjoy to see their team win. It’s what the sport is all about. 

Its what happens on the pitch that counts, duck all to do with this expected goals shit. Grab a shirt, kiss the badge and get back to being a football fan again.

I'm no happy clapper. If we perform well and get beat or draw I'll say so just as much as I'll say we weren't great or the opposition handed it to us on a plate. One of the best matches I went was a nil nil draw against Leeds in 2002, had everything but goals. Even though we never scored I was happy with the performance and that game sticks in memory. I can't say as much for any game this season, or last for that matter. I'm happy with the three points but other than the Man United score the matches are pretty forgettable. 

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https://www.transfermarkt.com/everton-fc_leeds-united/index/spielbericht/1021714

That one?

That starting line up, what a nightmare. Was there a single footballer in there?

Simonsen

Weir Stubbs Unsworth Pistone

Linderoth Gemmill Carsley Blomqvist

Campbell Radzinski 

Gravesen and Ginola came off the bench.

Not a bad result against a side with Alan Smith, Harry Kewell, Mark Viduka and Robbie Fowler. They had ten men from 39 minutes onwards after Matteo got sent off.

Leeds had one hell of a team back then, before they fucked it all up. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/1847993.stm

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At the end of the day we had a bad patch after the analfield game. We were awful for a dozen games or so but Marco has turned it around. You can point to the Fulham and palace games all you want but we are not city or the shite that can just turn up and smash teams. We are not the finished article. This will happen. Look at the way arsenal and spurs have fallen away at the end of the season. Consistency is key but if you look at how these teams do it it’s because they have the best players. End of. Marco can’t influence Pickford having a mare against Newcastle and five people being offside for the winner. If we are fans we have to see the bigger picture, granted we all see the game in different ways but the recruitment has been spot on last season. If it’s as good again and we get off to a good start I really think we will be challenging for top five 

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