Players good enough for top 4

[jofanon]

Your thoughts on our players that could players that could play at top 4 level...?

My view...

Starters

Gomes

Richarlison

Digne

Bernard

Pickford

Subs

Sig

Gana

Keane

Coleman

[Aidan]

Who would consistently start for a top 4 team? 

Digne, Gomes and Pickford. 

[Bill]

56 minutes ago, jofanon said:

Your thoughts on our players that could players that could play at top 4 level...?

My view...

Starters

Gomes

Richarlison

Digne

Bernard

Pickford

Subs

Sig

Gana

Keane

Coleman

If you put Zouma and one good striker in that squad we've got a fookin good team.

[Palfy]

Pickford Gomes Digne and Richarlison walk into most teams in the league, when you look at the rest of your lineup we are just 2-3 players away from challenging the top 6, a striker a CD and possibly a play maker. 

[Btay]

Big fan of Bernard but needs to find that extra level of end product then he makes the list. 2/3 players away from a very very competitive team and squad.

[Bailey]

On 26/06/2019 at 02:28, Btay said:

Big fan of Bernard but needs to find that extra level of end product then he makes the list. 2/3 players away from a very very competitive team and squad.

I hope that he will come good this season. He showed more and more glimpses as the season wore on last year and I just think he will come on another level this season with a year under his belt and a full pre-season.

[Matt]

On 25/06/2019 at 23:46, Aidan said:

Who would consistently start for a top 4 team? 

Digne, Gomes and Pickford. 

Gana too

[StevO]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

I hope that he will come good this season. He showed more and more glimpses as the season wore on last year and I just think he will come on another level this season with a year under his belt and a full pre-season.

Not sure why Bernard isn’t in the pre season squad. He’s not with the national team?

[MikeO]

17 minutes ago, Matt said:

Gana too

 

[Aidan]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Gana too

Is this the general consensus of everyone on the forum?

 

Leaves.

[pete0]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

Gana too

Fuck it I'll take the bait. Gana played 2821 minutes last season and managed 2 assists. 

Arsenal: Xhaka (4:3) and Torierra (2:4), both played less than Gana, about 3/5 games. 

Chelsea: Kante (4:4), played about 3 games more. 

Liverpool: Henderson (1:3), played 9 games less than Gana, so likely would have contributed towards 2 more goals. 

Man City: Gundogan (6:3), in 7 less (and played half them minutes further back). Their main CM is De Bruyne who played 20 less and got (2:3)

Man U: Pogba (13:10), played 2 more. 

Spurs: Eriksen (8:12). Similar minutes. 

Only eye balled the minutes as I couldn't be arsed copying them all so there may be a little error. Point is Gana played more minutes than most of them yet contributed the least, his assists actually meant nothing for us as well as we were already winning both games. 

Gana is basically the difference between us and the top 6. His contribution towards the goals didn't add any points and defensively he cost us points. Defensively he's a joke, people think he's a hard worker because he's naturally fit but truth is he's lazy and stupid positionally. 3:18 in this, the 'tackle' on 26 seconds too, any other player would be given down the banks, don't see why Gana seems exempt from critism just because he runs around a bit because when it matters he doesn't. Looking at the goals we concede more often than should be acceptable he's out of position, doesn't tackle with conviction, and doesn't bust a gut for the club. Add to that he stifles play going forward and offers nothing of a goal threat. 

 

[Bailey]

4 hours ago, Matt said:

Gana too

Lets see if any of them make a bid

[StevO]

Wow!! Gana created less than Gundogan, De Bruyne, Erikson and Pogba. 

Fuck me!! Arguero scored more goals than him too, just as relevant. 

Someone still doesn’t understand Gana’s role on the football pitch. 

Oh look, while we’re here let’s add Gana to the list of many footballers who have been made to look foolish by a top level player like Mane. 

I’ll take the piss all day Pete, but as the manager of the club rates him, and the one before him, and the one before him, at what point did you decide you were a better judge of a footballer than Marcel Brands, Marco Silva, Fat Sam and Ronald Koeman? Not sure if you’ve realised, but they all disagree with you. 

[MikeO]

18 minutes ago, StevO said:

Wow!! Gana created less than Gundogan, De Bruyne, Erikson and Pogba. 

Fuck me!! Arguero scored more goals than him too, just as relevant. 

Someone still doesn’t understand Gana’s role on the football pitch. 

Oh look, while we’re here let’s add Gana to the list of many footballers who have been made to look foolish by a top level player like Mane. 

I’ll take the piss all day Pete, but as the manager of the club rates him, and the one before him, and the one before him, at what point did you decide you were a better judge of a footballer than Marcel Brands, Marco Silva, Fat Sam and Ronald Koeman? Not sure if you’ve realised, but they all disagree with you. 

As do his team-mates, but what do they know? All they do is train with him every day and play with him every week-end, they just can't see how crap he is.

[DavisJD]

Pickford

Digne

 

Fighting for a spot;

Richarlison

Keane

Gueye

 

Gomes & Bernard are close, and need to show a little more in there second season in the premier league.

Sigurdsson is a funny one, has the technical ability, but seems to play more as a second striker for Everton rather than #10, would love to see him get involved and influence the play as much as Erikson.

 

[Palfy]

38 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Lets see if any of them make a bid

You would have thought they would if he’s that good, after all they all know he wants to leave for a team that’s playing CL and is prepared to submit a transfer request to leave. 

[Aidan]

11 minutes ago, DavisJD said:

Pickford

Digne

 

Fighting for a spot;

Richarlison

Keane

Gueye

 

Gomes & Bernard are close, and need to show a little more in there second season in the premier league.

Sigurdsson is a funny one, has the technical ability, but seems to play more as a second striker for Everton rather than #10, would love to see him get involved and influence the play as much as Erikson.

 

Maybe this was marcos way of fitting him in the squad? Too good technically to drop but has struggled in previous roles in past seasons. 

Second striker means he helps contribute in lots of goals but isn't the focal point of the team. 

It's fitting your marquee player in who isn't really a marquee player, so to speak. 

[pete0]

1 hour ago, StevO said:

Wow!! Gana created less than Gundogan, De Bruyne, Erikson and Pogba. 

Fuck me!! Arguero scored more goals than him too, just as relevant. 

Someone still doesn’t understand Gana’s role on the football pitch. 

Oh look, while we’re here let’s add Gana to the list of many footballers who have been made to look foolish by a top level player like Mane. 

I’ll take the piss all day Pete, but as the manager of the club rates him, and the one before him, and the one before him, at what point did you decide you were a better judge of a footballer than Marcel Brands, Marco Silva, Fat Sam and Ronald Koeman? Not sure if you’ve realised, but they all disagree with you. 

Is that someone named Idrissa? 

Wasn't just Mane that has done it to him. The chances at home to Fulham were a disgrace, as most ones he gives away. Also that excuse only works if they opposition done something special, look at the play what does Mane do that's special? Nothing. Same as when people said it about the piss poor defending against Coutinho and Pogba. Gana simply didn't do his job, he didn't concentrate hard enough or try hard enough. 

So who is the equivalents for those teams? Gana is the player meant to be linking defence with attack, he's the centre mid. Your comment just shows how laughable it is that he'd get in any of those sides. 

Kante is probs most similar in what he's being asked to do and he managed 4 goals and 4 assists in his first year in an unfamiliar role, and in a disgruntled team. Most similar side to us style wise is probs Watford and they have Dacoure (5g:7a). Even the poor man's McCarthy, Crystal Palace's McArthur, is out shining Gana. 

[Matt]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

Lets see if any of them make a bid

By that logic no one meets the criteria. 

Pete, I’m not bothering reading this nonsense again. I was just responding to the question in the OP. 

[StevO]

55 minutes ago, pete0 said:

So who is the equivalents for those teams? Gana is the player meant to be linking defence with attack, he's the centre mid. Your comment just shows how laughable it is that he'd get in any of those sides. 

Erm, no, it’s not. But when he does it’s a nice bonus.

I actually don’t think he would get in those sides. But he doesn’t play the same role as Pogba, Erikson or De Bruyne. It’s laughable for you to compare him to their attacking stats. They are three of the best midfielders in the country at creating chances, none of them are very good at breaking up play. But that isn’t their job either. 

[pete0]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

Lets see if any of them make a bid

We can live in hope. 

I doubt it though, Chelsea already chose to pay 4x the price for Kante even though they knew both players had very similar stats. 

37 minutes ago, StevO said:

Erm, no, it’s not. But when he does it’s a nice bonus.

I actually don’t think he would get in those sides. But he doesn’t play the same role as Pogba, Erikson or De Bruyne. It’s laughable for you to compare him to their attacking stats. They are three of the best midfielders in the country at creating chances, none of them are very good at breaking up play. But that isn’t their job either. 

They're all central midfielders who have another bloke sitting behind them. They all have a player further back so they can press, just they don't do it as blindly/wildly as Gana, they have better positional sense so know when to hold position (although Pogba is just as capable for a brainfart, and lazier in his pressing). They all drive the ball forward and help with the goals assists and that goes for the majority below us too. 

[Shukes]

Can we buy Messi?

We might get him as he’s not good enough for top four?

[Romey 1878]

Matt, I fucking hate you.

[Matt]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

Matt, I fucking hate you.

I know  

palfy - this is exactly why having the Gana thread locked or not makes no difference

[StevO]

9 hours ago, pete0 said:

They're all central midfielders who have another bloke sitting behind them. They all have a player further back so they can press, just they don't do it as blindly/wildly as Gana, they have better positional sense so know when to hold position (although Pogba is just as capable for a brainfart, and lazier in his pressing). They all drive the ball forward and help with the goals assists and that goes for the majority below us too. 

Yeah, you don’t get it. But that’s fine, the rest of us do. And Marco Silva, and it’s only really his opinion that counts. 

[pete0]

5 hours ago, StevO said:

Yeah, you don’t get it. But that’s fine, the rest of us do. And Marco Silva, and it’s only really his opinion that counts. 

That same Marco Silva that took us from 8th to 8th even though he had Digne, Zouma, fully fit Keane and Coleman, Gomes, Richarlison, Bernard and a more experienced DCL. 8 out of the starting eleven were all best than last year and he only managed 5 more points and exactly the same ranking.

Also note on top of all these better players the median points for the top 6 were higher than usual, meaning the teams below were easier to beat. Silva's job was to get us top 7 and was an easy year to do it but he failed. 

Looking at the 8 players and supposedly the manager being better than last year that only leaves Pickford, Gana and Walcott to be improved on (although I'd add Keane as even though he was better than last year he still wasn't great). Think most will agree Pickford gets us more points than he cost so it's not him, Walcott although not a fan favourite was more productive than Bernard. That leaves Gana... And maybe even the manager. 

[Aidan]

2 hours ago, pete0 said:

That same Marco Silva that took us from 8th to 8th even though he had Digne, Zouma, fully fit Keane and Coleman, Gomes, Richarlison, Bernard and a more experienced DCL. 8 out of the starting eleven were all best than last year and he only managed 5 more points and exactly the same ranking.

The same Silva that inherited the dregs of Martinez, Koeman and Walsh that needed time to assess the group and implement a style of play. A style of play that is still shoe-horned. I dont believe Silva still even has the players to implement the style that he wishes, look at Gylfi - our 'star' player who I beleive Silva is fitting into the system purly because he is our maquee player.

Split the season into two halves and you will see the bigger picture and the work in progress. A world cup meant a jaded pre season, with most of our transfers coming in on the last day of the season. Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

2 hours ago, pete0 said:

Walcott although not a fan favourite was more productive than Bernard.

More productive in terms of goals and assists. That's essentially the same as saying Gana is more productive going forward for us than Gomes is - because he got more combined goals and assists, when you look at the bigger picture that is clearly not the case.

 

[Bailey]

On 08/07/2019 at 01:19, Matt said:

By that logic no one meets the criteria. 

Tbf I am not sure we do have many. Pickford, Digne and Richarlison on the cusp but there isnt anyone I would say is a clear top 4 player. We do have a few that could get into an Arsenal or Utd matchday squad though.

[Haiku]

We do have some good enough for any top 4 side, but I don't see anyone who's going to play week in week out for them, especially for City and Liverpool. Probably Digne is the only one who have a chance to establish himself as a first teamer straight away. Pickford, Gomes, Richarlison will be good squad players, but nothing more than that.

[Finn balor]

Digne would establish himself quickly in all the top 4s starting eleven