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jofanon

Players good enough for top 4

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Your thoughts on our players that could players that could play at top 4 level...?

My view...

Starters

Gomes

Richarlison

Digne

Bernard

Pickford

Subs

Sig

Gana

Keane

Coleman

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56 minutes ago, jofanon said:

Your thoughts on our players that could players that could play at top 4 level...?

My view...

Starters

Gomes

Richarlison

Digne

Bernard

Pickford

Subs

Sig

Gana

Keane

Coleman

If you put Zouma and one good striker in that squad we've got a fookin good team.

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Pickford Gomes Digne and Richarlison walk into most teams in the league, when you look at the rest of your lineup we are just 2-3 players away from challenging the top 6, a striker a CD and possibly a play maker. 

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On 26/06/2019 at 02:28, Btay said:

Big fan of Bernard but needs to find that extra level of end product then he makes the list. 2/3 players away from a very very competitive team and squad.

I hope that he will come good this season. He showed more and more glimpses as the season wore on last year and I just think he will come on another level this season with a year under his belt and a full pre-season.

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1 hour ago, Bailey said:

I hope that he will come good this season. He showed more and more glimpses as the season wore on last year and I just think he will come on another level this season with a year under his belt and a full pre-season.

Not sure why Bernard isn’t in the pre season squad. He’s not with the national team?

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2 hours ago, Matt said:

Gana too

Fuck it I'll take the bait. Gana played 2821 minutes last season and managed 2 assists. 

Arsenal: Xhaka (4:3) and Torierra (2:4), both played less than Gana, about 3/5 games. 

Chelsea: Kante (4:4), played about 3 games more. 

Liverpool: Henderson (1:3), played 9 games less than Gana, so likely would have contributed towards 2 more goals. 

Man City: Gundogan (6:3), in 7 less (and played half them minutes further back). Their main CM is De Bruyne who played 20 less and got (2:3)

Man U: Pogba (13:10), played 2 more. 

Spurs: Eriksen (8:12). Similar minutes. 

Only eye balled the minutes as I couldn't be arsed copying them all so there may be a little error. Point is Gana played more minutes than most of them yet contributed the least, his assists actually meant nothing for us as well as we were already winning both games. 

Gana is basically the difference between us and the top 6. His contribution towards the goals didn't add any points and defensively he cost us points. Defensively he's a joke, people think he's a hard worker because he's naturally fit but truth is he's lazy and stupid positionally. 3:18 in this, the 'tackle' on 26 seconds too, any other player would be given down the banks, don't see why Gana seems exempt from critism just because he runs around a bit because when it matters he doesn't. Looking at the goals we concede more often than should be acceptable he's out of position, doesn't tackle with conviction, and doesn't bust a gut for the club. Add to that he stifles play going forward and offers nothing of a goal threat. 

 

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Wow!! Gana created less than Gundogan, De Bruyne, Erikson and Pogba. 

Fuck me!! Arguero scored more goals than him too, just as relevant. 

Someone still doesn’t understand Gana’s role on the football pitch. 

Oh look, while we’re here let’s add Gana to the list of many footballers who have been made to look foolish by a top level player like Mane. 

I’ll take the piss all day Pete, but as the manager of the club rates him, and the one before him, and the one before him, at what point did you decide you were a better judge of a footballer than Marcel Brands, Marco Silva, Fat Sam and Ronald Koeman? Not sure if you’ve realised, but they all disagree with you. 

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18 minutes ago, StevO said:

Wow!! Gana created less than Gundogan, De Bruyne, Erikson and Pogba. 

Fuck me!! Arguero scored more goals than him too, just as relevant. 

Someone still doesn’t understand Gana’s role on the football pitch. 

Oh look, while we’re here let’s add Gana to the list of many footballers who have been made to look foolish by a top level player like Mane. 

I’ll take the piss all day Pete, but as the manager of the club rates him, and the one before him, and the one before him, at what point did you decide you were a better judge of a footballer than Marcel Brands, Marco Silva, Fat Sam and Ronald Koeman? Not sure if you’ve realised, but they all disagree with you. 

As do his team-mates, but what do they know? All they do is train with him every day and play with him every week-end, they just can't see how crap he is.

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Pickford

Digne

 

Fighting for a spot;

Richarlison

Keane

Gueye

 

Gomes & Bernard are close, and need to show a little more in there second season in the premier league.

Sigurdsson is a funny one, has the technical ability, but seems to play more as a second striker for Everton rather than #10, would love to see him get involved and influence the play as much as Erikson.

 

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38 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Lets see if any of them make a bid 😉

You would have thought they would if he’s that good, after all they all know he wants to leave for a team that’s playing CL and is prepared to submit a transfer request to leave. 

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11 minutes ago, DavisJD said:

Pickford

Digne

 

Fighting for a spot;

Richarlison

Keane

Gueye

 

Gomes & Bernard are close, and need to show a little more in there second season in the premier league.

Sigurdsson is a funny one, has the technical ability, but seems to play more as a second striker for Everton rather than #10, would love to see him get involved and influence the play as much as Erikson.

 

Maybe this was marcos way of fitting him in the squad? Too good technically to drop but has struggled in previous roles in past seasons. 

Second striker means he helps contribute in lots of goals but isn't the focal point of the team. 

It's fitting your marquee player in who isn't really a marquee player, so to speak. 

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1 hour ago, StevO said:

Wow!! Gana created less than Gundogan, De Bruyne, Erikson and Pogba. 

Fuck me!! Arguero scored more goals than him too, just as relevant. 

Someone still doesn’t understand Gana’s role on the football pitch. 

Oh look, while we’re here let’s add Gana to the list of many footballers who have been made to look foolish by a top level player like Mane. 

I’ll take the piss all day Pete, but as the manager of the club rates him, and the one before him, and the one before him, at what point did you decide you were a better judge of a footballer than Marcel Brands, Marco Silva, Fat Sam and Ronald Koeman? Not sure if you’ve realised, but they all disagree with you. 

Is that someone named Idrissa? 

Wasn't just Mane that has done it to him. The chances at home to Fulham were a disgrace, as most ones he gives away. Also that excuse only works if they opposition done something special, look at the play what does Mane do that's special? Nothing. Same as when people said it about the piss poor defending against Coutinho and Pogba. Gana simply didn't do his job, he didn't concentrate hard enough or try hard enough. 

So who is the equivalents for those teams? Gana is the player meant to be linking defence with attack, he's the centre mid. Your comment just shows how laughable it is that he'd get in any of those sides. 

Kante is probs most similar in what he's being asked to do and he managed 4 goals and 4 assists in his first year in an unfamiliar role, and in a disgruntled team. Most similar side to us style wise is probs Watford and they have Dacoure (5g:7a). Even the poor man's McCarthy, Crystal Palace's McArthur, is out shining Gana. 

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2 hours ago, Bailey said:

Lets see if any of them make a bid 😉

By that logic no one meets the criteria. 

Pete, I’m not bothering reading this nonsense again. I was just responding to the question in the OP. 

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55 minutes ago, pete0 said:

So who is the equivalents for those teams? Gana is the player meant to be linking defence with attack, he's the centre mid. Your comment just shows how laughable it is that he'd get in any of those sides. 

Erm, no, it’s not. But when he does it’s a nice bonus.

I actually don’t think he would get in those sides. But he doesn’t play the same role as Pogba, Erikson or De Bruyne. It’s laughable for you to compare him to their attacking stats. They are three of the best midfielders in the country at creating chances, none of them are very good at breaking up play. But that isn’t their job either. 

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2 hours ago, Bailey said:

Lets see if any of them make a bid 😉

We can live in hope. 

I doubt it though, Chelsea already chose to pay 4x the price for Kante even though they knew both players had very similar stats. 

37 minutes ago, StevO said:

Erm, no, it’s not. But when he does it’s a nice bonus.

I actually don’t think he would get in those sides. But he doesn’t play the same role as Pogba, Erikson or De Bruyne. It’s laughable for you to compare him to their attacking stats. They are three of the best midfielders in the country at creating chances, none of them are very good at breaking up play. But that isn’t their job either. 

They're all central midfielders who have another bloke sitting behind them. They all have a player further back so they can press, just they don't do it as blindly/wildly as Gana, they have better positional sense so know when to hold position (although Pogba is just as capable for a brainfart, and lazier in his pressing). They all drive the ball forward and help with the goals assists and that goes for the majority below us too. 

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1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

Matt, I fucking hate you.

I know :) 

palfy - this is exactly why having the Gana thread locked or not makes no difference

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9 hours ago, pete0 said:

They're all central midfielders who have another bloke sitting behind them. They all have a player further back so they can press, just they don't do it as blindly/wildly as Gana, they have better positional sense so know when to hold position (although Pogba is just as capable for a brainfart, and lazier in his pressing). They all drive the ball forward and help with the goals assists and that goes for the majority below us too. 

Yeah, you don’t get it. But that’s fine, the rest of us do. And Marco Silva, and it’s only really his opinion that counts. 

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5 hours ago, StevO said:

Yeah, you don’t get it. But that’s fine, the rest of us do. And Marco Silva, and it’s only really his opinion that counts. 

That same Marco Silva that took us from 8th to 8th even though he had Digne, Zouma, fully fit Keane and Coleman, Gomes, Richarlison, Bernard and a more experienced DCL. 8 out of the starting eleven were all best than last year and he only managed 5 more points and exactly the same ranking.

Also note on top of all these better players the median points for the top 6 were higher than usual, meaning the teams below were easier to beat. Silva's job was to get us top 7 and was an easy year to do it but he failed. 

Looking at the 8 players and supposedly the manager being better than last year that only leaves Pickford, Gana and Walcott to be improved on (although I'd add Keane as even though he was better than last year he still wasn't great). Think most will agree Pickford gets us more points than he cost so it's not him, Walcott although not a fan favourite was more productive than Bernard. That leaves Gana... And maybe even the manager. 

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2 hours ago, pete0 said:

That same Marco Silva that took us from 8th to 8th even though he had Digne, Zouma, fully fit Keane and Coleman, Gomes, Richarlison, Bernard and a more experienced DCL. 8 out of the starting eleven were all best than last year and he only managed 5 more points and exactly the same ranking.

The same Silva that inherited the dregs of Martinez, Koeman and Walsh that needed time to assess the group and implement a style of play. A style of play that is still shoe-horned. I dont believe Silva still even has the players to implement the style that he wishes, look at Gylfi - our 'star' player who I beleive Silva is fitting into the system purly because he is our maquee player.

Split the season into two halves and you will see the bigger picture and the work in progress. A world cup meant a jaded pre season, with most of our transfers coming in on the last day of the season. Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

2 hours ago, pete0 said:

Walcott although not a fan favourite was more productive than Bernard.

More productive in terms of goals and assists. That's essentially the same as saying Gana is more productive going forward for us than Gomes is - because he got more combined goals and assists, when you look at the bigger picture that is clearly not the case.

 

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On 08/07/2019 at 01:19, Matt said:

By that logic no one meets the criteria. 

Tbf I am not sure we do have many. Pickford, Digne and Richarlison on the cusp but there isnt anyone I would say is a clear top 4 player. We do have a few that could get into an Arsenal or Utd matchday squad though.

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We do have some good enough for any top 4 side, but I don't see anyone who's going to play week in week out for them, especially for City and Liverpool. Probably Digne is the only one who have a chance to establish himself as a first teamer straight away. Pickford, Gomes, Richarlison will be good squad players, but nothing more than that.

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19 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

Digne would establish himself quickly in all the top 4s starting eleven 

Assuming all fit and well, I would have Robertson, Mendy and Azpilicueta ahead of him. Davies/Rose would be debateable. 

I like him a lot but I dont think he is *that* good. He cost us a fair amount of goals last season as well as creating us a lot. He is certainly one of the best left backs in the league but I dont think he would be a top 4 shoe in.

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7 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Assuming all fit and well, I would have Robertson, Mendy and Azpilicueta ahead of him. Davies/Rose would be debateable. 

I like him a lot but I dont think he is *that* good. He cost us a fair amount of goals last season as well as creating us a lot. He is certainly one of the best left backs in the league but I dont think he would be a top 4 shoe in.

mendy can't string together 2 games back to back and you'd have him over Digne?  you drunk?

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2 hours ago, Bailey said:

Assuming all fit and well, I would have Robertson, Mendy and Azpilicueta ahead of him. Davies/Rose would be debateable. 

I like him a lot but I dont think he is *that* good. He cost us a fair amount of goals last season as well as creating us a lot. He is certainly one of the best left backs in the league but I dont think he would be a top 4 shoe in.

Obviously everyone has an opinion but the Chelsea lad who I can’t even be bothered spelling is a defender that’s it. Offers nothing going forward. Mendy? Played about five games in the prem so no idea what your talking about on that one. Robertson? He looks good going forward in a system that allows it. Why did Milner play so long at left back? Because they had to introduce a style of play to allow Robertson to fit in. Cough cough buy van Djjk 

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On 08/07/2019 at 19:37, Aidan said:

The same Silva that inherited the dregs of Martinez, Koeman and Walsh that needed time to assess the group and implement a style of play. A style of play that is still shoe-horned. I dont believe Silva still even has the players to implement the style that he wishes, look at Gylfi - our 'star' player who I beleive Silva is fitting into the system purly because he is our maquee player.

Split the season into two halves and you will see the bigger picture and the work in progress. A world cup meant a jaded pre season, with most of our transfers coming in on the last day of the season. Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

More productive in terms of goals and assists. That's essentially the same as saying Gana is more productive going forward for us than Gomes is - because he got more combined goals and assists, when you look at the bigger picture that is clearly not the case.

 

The dregs are all loaned out. We got Digne, Zouma, Richarlison, Gomes and Bernard. Add to that a fully fit Coleman and Keane, plus DCL had gained more experience. Yet with all this Silva only managed to get 5 more points and no further up the league. 

We started off brightly, so I don't think the implementating a style of play was a problem. Only one who took a bit of time to adjust was Bernard but he was still useful, would sort of add Sigurdssen too but he's not struggling to adapt he's just not suited to the role he's being asked to do. After Xmas the upturn come thanks to meeting a few teams at the right moment and playing DCL up top, the latter being a decision that took the manager too long to make. 

Gomes was he got the same amount of assists (2) but edges Gana as he scored a goal too. Is expect in most teams the CM to be more productive than their DM. 

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6 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

You happy with Delph peteo?

He's an improvement on Gana but I'd rather McCarthy was back in the team or Davies was given a chance to kick on. 

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I’m not saying Delph is going to be a starter. McCarthy is just never going to be fit. Like Wiltshire too many injuries. Davies is in no rush. He’s not 21 yet I don’t think. Davies is not ready for a regular spot he would get eaten alive by the top teams 

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On 11/07/2019 at 22:06, Finn balor said:

Obviously everyone has an opinion but the Chelsea lad who I can’t even be bothered spelling is a defender that’s it. Offers nothing going forward. Mendy? Played about five games in the prem so no idea what your talking about on that one. Robertson? He looks good going forward in a system that allows it. Why did Milner play so long at left back? Because they had to introduce a style of play to allow Robertson to fit in. Cough cough buy van Djjk 

Not a bad defender though... and he can play CB, and he actually has a good delivery on him. Its all they banged on about at Chelsea for a while when it was him putting it on the head of Morata.

Mendy is a real quality player if he can stay fit. He has everything you want from a modern day full back. If you havent watched much of him that isnt an argument to say he isnt better or as good as Digne.

Robertson was very good at Hull too. Pretty sure he was also injured. Hell we started last season with Baines and Baines came in for a game when Digne was injured. That's not really much of a valid argument IMO, especially when one was part of the 2nd best defence in the league that came 2nd in that league and won the CL. The argument was he would walk in to those teams.

On 11/07/2019 at 22:08, Finn balor said:

Any u think rose and Davies are debatable? I bet poch would swap them in a heartbeat 

He would have had the same chance as us to buy him, probably greater seeing as they had CL football so maybe Poch wouldn't afterall.

Again I will reiterate my point in that the top 4 teams wouldnt just drop the players they have for Digne. In reality there isnt a lot between them all and it wouldnt surprise me if he is paid as much, if not more, than most of them as well.

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1 minute ago, pete0 said:

Gana or Gomes? 

Gomes is more productive - just not in terms of goals or assists. Was reading an analysis on him the other day and it was showing how influential he was in the build up play for us with 2nd assists and forward pass %s etc. Cant find the article now so youll just have to take my work for it ;)

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16 minutes ago, Aidan said:

Gomes is more productive - just not in terms of goals or assists. Was reading an analysis on him the other day and it was showing how influential he was in the build up play for us with 2nd assists and forward pass %s etc. Cant find the article now so youll just have to take my work for it ;)

I assumed Gomes but was confused as he scored more goals (just the one mind).  

Trust you're right. Good player Gomes, reminds me of Arteta. 

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9 hours ago, MikeO said:

That'll be why PSG have bid £35m for him, oh wait a minute.

Only a few days ago the point that no one had bid was proof he isn’t good enough.

Humility is a tough trait.

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25 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Only a few days ago the point that no one had bid was proof he isn’t good enough.

Humility is a tough trait.

Economics 101, the Vichery auction, the true value is that of the second highest bidder. 

Personally I'm not arsed how much the club gets for him. I'll just be happy he's no longer in the first team. 

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18 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Economics 101, the Vichery auction, the true value is that of the second highest bidder. 

Personally I'm not arsed how much the club gets for him. I'll just be happy he's no longer in the first team. 

That’s hilarious mate. Got to admit, you do have a great sense of humour.

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2 hours ago, Aidan said:

Gomes is more productive - just not in terms of goals or assists. Was reading an analysis on him the other day and it was showing how influential he was in the build up play for us with 2nd assists and forward pass %s etc. Cant find the article now so youll just have to take my work for it ;)

Don’t need the article mate that is plain to see by anyone that Gomes offers the team so much more than Gana, what amazes me is those who would say differently, but it is a game that courts wildly different opinions and more recently the blind😎

 

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13 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Don’t need the article mate that is plain to see by anyone that Gomes offers the team so much more than Gana, what amazes me is those who would say differently, but it is a game that courts wildly different opinions and more recently the blind😎

 

Don’t think many would say Gana offers more than Gomes. But as others have said, the two seem to compliment each other.

But if we can get an upgrade in Gana to go alongside Gomes, I think each and every fan will be happy.

But then I would be happy if we sold Gomes tomorrow and brought an upgrade too. 

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9 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Don’t think many would say Gana offers more than Gomes. But as others have said, the two seem to compliment each other.

But if we can get an upgrade in Gana to go alongside Gomes, I think each and every fan will be happy.

But then I would be happy if we sold Gomes tomorrow and brought an upgrade too. 

Easy Tiger we only bought him last week 😀 given time with a better partner he could be heading for our Hall of fame he’s potentially that good in the right team. 

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26 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Don’t think many would say Gana offers more than Gomes. But as others have said, the two seem to compliment each other.

But if we can get an upgrade in Gana to go alongside Gomes, I think each and every fan will be happy.

But then I would be happy if we sold Gomes tomorrow and brought an upgrade too. 

This!!!

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30 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Easy Tiger we only bought him last week 😀 given time with a better partner he could be heading for our Hall of fame he’s potentially that good in the right team. 

Oh I love you guy, but you know what I mean. I’ll be happy to replace any player with better.

But Gomes is a player I think we could be building a team around. I’ve even told the missus she can have his poster on our ceiling.

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1 minute ago, Shukes said:

Oh I love you guy, but you know what I mean. I’ll be happy to replace any player with better.

But Gomes is a player I think we could be building a team around. I’ve even told the missus she can have his poster on our ceiling.

😂😂😂 good advice I might try that with my mrs. 

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3 hours ago, pete0 said:

Economics 101, the Vichery auction...

Spelling 101, the Vickrey auction;).

But as that's not the system used for football transfers it's a bit irrelevant. Used virtually nowhere other than between stamp collectors in fact researching it, probably a good reason for that.

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