New season ahead

[pete0]

For the most part he lacks power in his shots. We should be asking him to get in the box more, run at the back post like Sterling for City. 

[Elston Gunnn]

Although I am looking forward to beginning the new season, it’s not easy to be optimistic right now.  We’ve looked toothless in every preseason match, against mediocre opponents.  We’re yet again looking to very late transfer hopes.

And I confess that my outlook is especially soured by the puzzling sale of Lookman.  Yes, of course, Silva “knows football,” but I thought I saw real multiple skills in Lookman’s play, including clever dribbling, assists, shotmaking, willingness to take shots.  Was he unwilling to help the fullbacks defend, far inferior to all of Bernard, Richarlison, and Walcott in that regard?  Lookman seemed a more promising winger than Bernard or Walcott. We need goals.  We’ve sold a promising goalscorer.

 

[Wiggytop]

1 hour ago, Elston Gunnn said:

Although I am looking forward to beginning the new season, it’s not easy to be optimistic right now.  We’ve looked toothless in every preseason match, against mediocre opponents.  We’re yet again looking to very late transfer hopes.

And I confess that my outlook is especially soured by the puzzling sale of Lookman.  Yes, of course, Silva “knows football,” but I thought I saw real multiple skills in Lookman’s play, including clever dribbling, assists, shotmaking, willingness to take shots.  Was he unwilling to help the fullbacks defend, far inferior to all of Bernard, Richarlison, and Walcott in that regard?  Lookman seemed a more promising winger than Bernard or Walcott. We need goals.  We’ve sold a promising goalscorer.

 

Lookman wasn't  that good at helping his  fullback, and never really showed that much when he played, for me he comes inside too quickly where the field is packed with defenders, and didn't give an option to play the ball out wide, and his finishing wasn't that great. I like him but was never convinced he was going to produce enough ( same as Walcott I guess then ! )

[StevO]

3 hours ago, Elston Gunnn said:

Although I am looking forward to beginning the new season, it’s not easy to be optimistic right now.  We’ve looked toothless in every preseason match, against mediocre opponents.  We’re yet again looking to very late transfer hopes.

And I confess that my outlook is especially soured by the puzzling sale of Lookman.  Yes, of course, Silva “knows football,” but I thought I saw real multiple skills in Lookman’s play, including clever dribbling, assists, shotmaking, willingness to take shots.  Was he unwilling to help the fullbacks defend, far inferior to all of Bernard, Richarlison, and Walcott in that regard?  Lookman seemed a more promising winger than Bernard or Walcott. We need goals.  We’ve sold a promising goalscorer.

 

Don’t know which Lookman you’ve been watching. 

[Elston Gunnn]

13 minutes ago, StevO said:

Don’t know which Lookman you’ve been watching. 

Same Lookman you’ve watched, but as with any number of players — not just Lukaku and Gana — different fans see different things.

I’ll try to avoid a lengthy debate with you, as Lookman no longer plays for Everton; but to some extent I’m comparing Lookman to Bernard and especially the consistently disappointing Walcott.  I think I recall Lookman being aggressive enough, in his limited appearances, to take opportunities presented to him (unlike the strangely timid Walcott), and strike the ball well (unlike Walcott, who regularly fluffs at the ball or hits it meekly).  Bernard offers more than Walcott, but I’m not persuaded he’d actually score more goals than Lookman, given roughly equal playing time over a season.  Lookman is a clever dribbler; true, probably tries to do too much at times.  As does Bernard.

So over the next few years, I think Lookman would have been more productive offensively than Bernard, and much more productive than Walcott.  If you’re saying have I watched how useless Lookman is defensively, I concede that my impression is he’s less effective there.

Silva says he wants to buy a winger.  I’ll simply hope we get someone more goal-productive than Walcott and Bernard.

 

[Shukes]

I agree with a Lookman. He had a lot to offer and I can only assume, there was ethic or personality problems.

He wasn’t a winger. He was a tricky clever player, had a ferocious shot, and wasn’t scared to shoot either... unlike most Everton players over the last twenty years.

[Palfy]

I find it very strange that he was not allowed to leave a year ago possibly for a couple of million more than he was allowed to go for now to the same team. 

[Shukes]

I think they needed to try for another year, see if he has that breakthrough season. But somethings just not clicked for him here.

[Palfy]

22 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I think they needed to try for another year, see if he has that breakthrough season. But somethings just not clicked for him here.

I thought the same and Silva led him and us to believe he had a great future here, but when you look at the opportunities he had to prove himself last season they were virtually none existent, quite a few weeks he didn’t even make the bench. 

Some pundits believe that will prove to be the worst piece of business we could have possibly done this season, makes you wonder if we needed the money. 

[StevO]

3 hours ago, Elston Gunnn said:

Same Lookman you’ve watched, but as with any number of players — not just Lukaku and Gana — different fans see different things.

I’ll try to avoid a lengthy debate with you, as Lookman no longer plays for Everton; but to some extent I’m comparing Lookman to Bernard and especially the consistently disappointing Walcott.  I think I recall Lookman being aggressive enough, in his limited appearances, to take opportunities presented to him (unlike the strangely timid Walcott), and strike the ball well (unlike Walcott, who regularly fluffs at the ball or hits it meekly).  Bernard offers more than Walcott, but I’m not persuaded he’d actually score more goals than Lookman, given roughly equal playing time over a season.  Lookman is a clever dribbler; true, probably tries to do too much at times.  As does Bernard.

So over the next few years, I think Lookman would have been more productive offensively than Bernard, and much more productive than Walcott.  If you’re saying have I watched how useless Lookman is defensively, I concede that my impression is he’s less effective there.

Silva says he wants to buy a winger.  I’ll simply hope we get someone more goal-productive than Walcott and Bernard.

 

I couldn’t disagree more really, I think Lookman offered nothing at all last season. He didn’t attempt to beat a man anywhere near often enough as he could have, didn’t come close to offering as much as Walcott, let alone any other winger we have. Doesn’t seem to have improved from when we signed him. I think if he offered anything productive Marco and Marcel would have wanted to keep him. I respect your opinion though, and as you say, we see different things. 

[StevO]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

I thought the same and Silva led him and us to believe he had a great future here, but when you look at the opportunities he had to prove himself last season they were virtually none existent, quite a few weeks he didn’t even make the bench. 

Some pundits believe that will prove to be the worst piece of business we could have possibly done this season, makes you wonder if we needed the money. 

I think he had an opportunity every day at Finch Farm. I’d say we cut our losses on him, only we made a nice profit. 

[pete0]

27 minutes ago, StevO said:

I think he had an opportunity every day at Finch Farm. I’d say we cut our losses on him, only we made a nice profit. 

I don't think it matters how hard you work in training with Silva if you're a kid. Both Kenny and Davies should have had more minutes, and DCL only got a proper chance after Silva gave up on converting Richarlison into a striker. 

[markjazzbassist]

4 hours ago, StevO said:

I think he had an opportunity every day at Finch Farm. I’d say we cut our losses on him, only we made a nice profit. 

Agreed. He did wel in Germany which bar Dortmund and Bayern is championship quality.  Remember the 11th place Martinez year we blitzed Wolfsburg who got 2nd or 3rd.  4-1 home and away and they had de bruyne!!

[Finn balor]

14 hours ago, pete0 said:

I don't think it matters how hard you work in training with Silva if you're a kid. Both Kenny and Davies should have had more minutes, and DCL only got a proper chance after Silva gave up on converting Richarlison into a striker. 

could have swore I saw Davies wearing the captains armband. 

[Finn balor]

What’s everybody’s signing of the window so far? I know Romey is a fan of lossl so I know he will plumb for him. I think the Spanish kid West Ham have signed is going to be brilliant and for good money aswell. 

[pete0]

1 hour ago, Finn balor said:

could have swore I saw Davies wearing the captains armband. 

Relevance? 

He played 1896 minutes across 33 games last year. Under Silva he played 975 across 16. No youth player got more minutes except Lookman 601 up from 169. We had Kenny, Holgate, Beni, Davies, Vlasic, DCL (although roughly the same) all do well enough the season before yet none of them improved their minutes, two leaving just to get some. 

[Finn balor]

The relevance is you made a statement that if your a kid it doesn’t matter how hard you work because silva won’t play you. Well he did play him and had enough confidence to give him the armband over far more experienced players. Well kenny has been loaned out, beni did last season aswell as Holgate and both Lookman and vlasic got sold. Do you think the answer is he either doesn’t rate them or they need seasoning and send them off on loan? Oh wait that doesn’t fit your agenda. silva just doesn’t like young players. That’s why he spent £40 mill on twenty one year old Richarlison and wants to spend £36 mill on a nineteen year old 

[pete0]

30 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

The relevance is you made a statement that if your a kid it doesn’t matter how hard you work because silva won’t play you. Well he did play him and had enough confidence to give him the armband over far more experienced players. Well kenny has been loaned out, beni did last season aswell as Holgate and both Lookman and vlasic got sold. Do you think the answer is he either doesn’t rate them or they need seasoning and send them off on loan? Oh wait that doesn’t fit your agenda. silva just doesn’t like young players. That’s why he spent £40 mill on twenty one year old Richarlison and wants to spend £36 mill on a nineteen year old 

I didn't say full stop did I? You're argument is pathetic now fuck sake.

He won't play you over a senior player. Davies come in got motm and was dropped straight away, same for Kenny. DCL come in done well yet Richarlison and Tosun kept getting given another chance over him. The others all left for minutes as they weren't getting a chance. 

We had a torrid run but Silva stuck with his favourites. He's not given the youth a chance other than to cover injuries and even though they've done well they've not kept their spot other than DCL but that was more a reluctant acceptance. 

[Bailey]

16 minutes ago, pete0 said:

I didn't say full stop did I? You're argument is pathetic now fuck sake.

He won't play you over a senior player. Davies come in got motm and was dropped straight away, same for Kenny. DCL come in done well yet Richarlison and Tosun kept getting given another chance over him. The others all left for minutes as they weren't getting a chance. 

We had a torrid run but Silva stuck with his favourites. He's not given the youth a chance other than to cover injuries and even though they've done well they've not kept their spot other than DCL but that was more a reluctant acceptance. 

Youth a chance?! He has only been here a year! 

DCL came in and was toothless so why is it a surprise he tried someone else? 

Kenny got dropped because Coleman is better and Silva was right because once he was fully up to speed Coleman was as good as he ever has been at the end of last season and it looks to be the same again this season.

Davies was also inconsistent and again you cant argue that at the end of the season we were a lot more balanced than we had been at any point in the season with the 3 older heads of Gomes, Gueye and Schneiderlin.

Unfortunately the kids we have just arent good enough to breakthrough and play week in week out at the moment and the younger ones shouldnt be introduced when the chips are down as they were for large parts of the middle of last season. 

[Finn balor]

If any manager was told you have three years in the job don’t worry I’m sure they would blood younger players for the long term but unfortunately they don’t and can’t do it because if it doesn’t work out in the short term they get sacked. And it starts from people moaning about managers not taking responsibility because they’ve lost pre  season friendlies largely consisting of a youth squad. Oh the irony 

[Gwlad]

When will we see 'Next Everton manager' thread?

[Palfy]

3 minutes ago, Gwlad all over said:

When will we see 'Next Everton manager' thread?

We can start one now if you like

[Gwlad]

  I've no-one in mind....yet!

[Finn balor]

Make sure you put Sam and the special one in if your doing a poll

[pete0]

3 hours ago, Bailey said:

Youth a chance?! He has only been here a year! 

DCL came in and was toothless so why is it a surprise he tried someone else? 

Kenny got dropped because Coleman is better and Silva was right because once he was fully up to speed Coleman was as good as he ever has been at the end of last season and it looks to be the same again this season.

Davies was also inconsistent and again you cant argue that at the end of the season we were a lot more balanced than we had been at any point in the season with the 3 older heads of Gomes, Gueye and Schneiderlin.

Unfortunately the kids we have just arent good enough to breakthrough and play week in week out at the moment and the younger ones shouldnt be introduced when the chips are down as they were for large parts of the middle of last season. 

DCL was far from toothless, it was clear he was the best for the system yet Silva was hesitant and kept trying to force Tosun in the system or Richarlison into a new role. 

How was Davies inconsistent. He come in and was motm during a period were we had been in dire straits yet Gana waltzed straight back in after the transfer window shut. Similar happened to Kenny with Coleman. There was even the injured Baines decision over him. 

Coleman had large periods were he didn't deserve to play. Same could be said for most of them. Yet Silva stuck with his favourites regardless, we were dying for something different and a bit more fight yet just plodded along. 

2 hours ago, Finn balor said:

If any manager was told you have three years in the job don’t worry I’m sure they would blood younger players for the long term but unfortunately they don’t and can’t do it because if it doesn’t work out in the short term they get sacked. And it starts from people moaning about managers not taking responsibility because they’ve lost pre  season friendlies largely consisting of a youth squad. Oh the irony 

I'd already made this point before preseason. Even said had Alladyce used the kids more he might have kept the job. 

[Bailey]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

DCL was far from toothless, it was clear he was the best for the system yet Silva was hesitant and kept trying to force Tosun in the system or Richarlison into a new role. 

How was Davies inconsistent. He come in and was motm during a period were we had been in dire straits yet Gana waltzed straight back in after the transfer window shut. Similar happened to Kenny with Coleman. There was even the injured Baines decision over him. 

Coleman had large periods were he didn't deserve to play. Same could be said for most of them. Yet Silva stuck with his favourites regardless, we were dying for something different and a bit more fight yet just plodded along. 

I'd already made this point before preseason. Even said had Alladyce used the kids more he might have kept the job. 

Far from toothless? He misses more chances than he scores! I bet Richie scored as many as a CF as DCL did despite far less games.

I like him but Davies is always inconsistent. Gueye had his best season at the club. 

Same issues with Kenny. Coleman wasnt at his best but he needed the games and look at him now. I think that decision was vindicated.

[barryj]

5 hours ago, pete0 said:

DCL come in done well yet Richarlison and Tosun kept getting given another chance over him.

You like stats & they show that DCL had 19 starts to Tosuns 10. He also featured more as a sub. So you’re wrong on this one with Tosun Pete0. 

[pete0]

24 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Far from toothless? He misses more chances than he scores! I bet Richie scored as many as a CF as DCL did despite far less games.

I like him but Davies is always inconsistent. Gueye had his best season at the club. 

Same issues with Kenny. Coleman wasnt at his best but he needed the games and look at him now. I think that decision was vindicated.

Looking at the big chances missed to scored DCL held his own. He also brings the other players into the game whereas Richarlison is more selfish. 

How can you be inconsistent across such a short period. He started when Gomes was getting fit (6 of the first 8), 1 over Christmas, and then 4 matches when Gana had his head wobbled. From memory he was motm on here for two of those last 4. He deserved to keep his place, especially with Gana pushing for a move and him and Gomes not working. Kenny was motm one game played the next then dropped. Any excuse the kids get dropped straight away without given a chance to rectify. It's poor management. 

[pete0]

12 minutes ago, barryj said:

You like stats & they show that DCL had 19 starts to Tosuns 10. He also featured more as a sub. So you’re wrong on this one with Tosun Pete0. 

Didn't say he played less than Tosun. Said Tosun and Richarlison played more than they should over DCL. 

Tosun and Richarlison were used over him at the start, DCL only started 4 of the first 16. Eventually Silva settled on DCL. He took too long to make that decision. Me and a few others were initially laughed at for saying DCL should be the starter due to the new system at the start of the season. Shouldn't take Silva so long to make a decision the average fan can spot. 

[barryj]

14 hours ago, pete0 said:

Didn't say he played less than Tosun. Said Tosun and Richarlison played more than they should over DCL. 

Tosun and Richarlison were used over him at the start, DCL only started 4 of the first 16. Eventually Silva settled on DCL. He took too long to make that decision. Me and a few others were initially laughed at for saying DCL should be the starter due to the new system at the start of the season. Shouldn't take Silva so long to make a decision the average fan can spot. 

You’re not the average fan

Maybe he improved in training? I think this shows the opposite than you’re implying about Silva. He doesn’t make a knee jerk decision gives it time but will make changes and give youth a chance if it improves the system or team. Let’s not forget DCL isn’t a goal machine so you need to weigh up the pros and cons of him playing and ensure there are other players around him that can get the goals of DCL doesn’t.