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Matt

2019/2020: Potential line ups...

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Since I’ve not been able to get to sleep still, and the lineup question got brought up again which has gotten my mind racing and aching even more, I thought I’d put forth a question (to which I’ll answer when I’m at the computer tomorrow, not so I can copy you all... honest...).

I’d like to see your lineups for the following scenarios (you can do home and away if you like, since it’s conceivably a different approach);

1) where we want to dominate 

2) where we want to counter

3) other options 

In each scenario however, you have to provide how the lineup will have to adjust to defending (since there will always be moments where we’re under pressure) so that means no swapping out players and, whilst you can name a sub bench if you want, saying you’d switch starter X for sub Y isn’t allowed here, as you never know at what point in the game you’d have to do this and you wouldn’t just waste a sub. 

Thought it might be fun but I realise that the posts will probably be quite big :D 

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I can't get my head around our midfield. Too many options. 

 

Against lesser teams Id probably go with something like:

..............................Pickford................................

Coleman...........Keane.......Mina.............Digne

..................Gomes..........Siggy..........................

Walcott................................................Bernard

..........................Iwobi........................................

............................Richarlison.............................

 

Against the top teams id like to see something like:

..............................Pickford................................

Coleman...........Keane.......Mina.............Digne

...................Gbamin...........Gomes....................

Walcott..................Siggy.......................Bernard

.............................Richarlison............................

 

Subs/Backup (In priority order):

Goal - Lössl, Stek

Right defender - Sidibe

Central defender - Holgate, Martina

Left defender - Baines, Delph, Martina

Defensive Mid - Morgan, Delph, Besic 
Offensive Central Mid - Iwobe (if he doesn't start), Baningime, Davies, Mirallas

Wingers - Richarlison (which means another striker starts), Iwobe (if he doesn't start), Mirallas
Forwards - Kean, DCL, Tosun

 

We have too many central mid options and not enough options on the wings or in central defense. Delph looks like a strange signing now :(

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I'd like to see us lined up how we finished the season and introduce the new players steadily if things are not going right, they need to settle in first and get to know how Marco wants them to play

                              Pickford

Coleman.    Keane.            Mina.      Digne.

                  Schniederlin.    Gomes.

                                   Sigurdson

        Richarlison.        Calvert-Lewin.      Bernard

 

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I think I would like to see. 

                               Pickford. 

Sidibe.           Keane.            Mina.       Digne. 

                   Gabamin.         Gomes. 

Richarlison.             Iwobi.           Bernard. 

                                  Kean. 

But I’m sure Bills right the new players won’t be introduced straight away. 

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That's a good side you picked, I'm sure in the near future their will be a few changes.

At the moment I wouldn't want 3 or 4 players all coming in at once, they've probably all been playing under different systems and they've only been here for two days. We do have very good options now though, we just need to get them all on the same wavelength, very pleased with the window.

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15 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

I’d like to see us at home especially not play two deeper midfielders and play one and go out and twat teams 4 or 5 nil. I’m not talking about the top teams obviously 

Why not Utd last season. 

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Right. I just think against the likes of Liverpool and city you would need two deeper players as they break so quickly but yeah I get what you mean. It’s all about outscoring your opposition at the end of the day. I’d like us to blitz more teams. It looks like arsenal have that mindset with their signings. Gives me hope though that there two centre halves could be luiz and mustafi with xhaka just in front 😂

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36 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Because we twated Utd 4-0 and there classed as one of the top teams, so why can’t we do it again that’s what I was hinting at.

Only because they were in a poor run of form...

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4 hours ago, Palfy said:

I think I would like to see. 

                               Pickford. 

Sidibe.           Keane.            Mina.       Digne. 

                   Gabamin.         Gomes. 

Richarlison.             Iwobi.           Bernard. 

                                  Kean. 

But I’m sure Bills right the new players won’t be introduced straight away. 

I’d hope this is the goal, with DCL playing at the expense of Bernard in some games. 

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1 hour ago, Finn balor said:

Right. I just think against the likes of Liverpool and city you would need two deeper players as they break so quickly but yeah I get what you mean. It’s all about outscoring your opposition at the end of the day. I’d like us to blitz more teams. It looks like arsenal have that mindset with their signings. Gives me hope though that there two centre halves could be luiz and mustafi with xhaka just in front 😂

We shouldn’t give them too much respect. The best form of defense is attack. 

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1 minute ago, Cornish Steve said:

I’d hope this is the goal, with DCL playing at the expense of Bernard in some games. 

Thing is Steve with DCL, Gylfi and Walcott to be added to the 4 I selected, we have so many options and systems we can implement. 

I’m very excited about our attacking options I can see us giving some teams a real bloody nose.

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  Assuming the players we have are as good as advertised, and settle in, I'd love to find a way to get our most athletic creative 10 on the pitch. In my "ideal" Bernard and Gomes just miss out and are on the bench, but could certainly be swapped. Run them out in a 4-4-2 diamond      

       Pickford

Sidibie  Keane  Mina  Dinge

           Gabamin

Richy                   Iwobe

             Siggy

       DCL      Kean

 

However, I don't see Silva using that. But to Peter H's  point, there are so many combinations we have in the center of the park, who knows what to expect. We could shift between a 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3 and 4-1-4-1 almost seamlessly within a given half. I would expect to see Bill's line-up (the one we basically ended last year with) to start the season.

 

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I would be very much against any 2 man central midfield as they will inevitably get over run against 3 man midfields unless it's a sit back, absorb and counter attack job with long balls forward rather than playing through midfield. 

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30 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I would be very much against any 2 man central midfield as they will inevitably get over run against 3 man midfields unless it's a sit back, absorb and counter attack job with long balls forward rather than playing through midfield. 

It seems that teams who like to press like we do, or try to, change shape a lot more, especially if they have more versatile skill-set players At least watching us it appears In possession the CB are fairly wide at midfield with a CM in front of them, wings and forward higher up the pitch around the box the midfielders in between, with fullbacks providing wide outlets or overlaps with the wings. I have no idea what formation you would call that.

And when pinned back, it looks like a 4-5-1 or a 4-4-2 if the CAM or CM is pressing with the striker. It seems to me the more athletic and flexible the players are, the less definable or even important the formation is once the ball is kicked.

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46 minutes ago, Ghoat said:

It seems that teams who like to press like we do, or try to, change shape a lot more, especially if they have more versatile skill-set players At least watching us it appears In possession the CB are fairly wide at midfield with a CM in front of them, wings and forward higher up the pitch around the box the midfielders in between, with fullbacks providing wide outlets or overlaps with the wings. I have no idea what formation you would call that.

And when pinned back, it looks like a 4-5-1 or a 4-4-2 if the CAM or CM is pressing with the striker. It seems to me the more athletic and flexible the players are, the less definable or even important the formation is once the ball is kicked.

That is why formations should only be considered as a way to define defensive shape rather than offensive shape. You aren't going to move forward as a team and be successful if you do so in strict 442 lines... it would be like Fusbal 😂

When we do have the ball at the back our midfield and CB shape changes a lot. Schneiderlin generally stays a lot more central and sits between the CBs whereas Gomes and Gana were picking the ball up a lot in the full back areas with Digne / Coleman pushed forward and the wingers moving closer to the striker. The amount of times we would have no-one in the centre of midfield when we gave away cheap possession was frightening. 

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23 minutes ago, Bailey said:

That is why formations should only be considered as a way to define defensive shape rather than offensive shape. You aren't going to move forward as a team and be successful if you do so in strict 442 lines... it would be like Fusbal 😂

When we do have the ball at the back our midfield and CB shape changes a lot. Schneiderlin generally stays a lot more central and sits between the CBs whereas Gomes and Gana were picking the ball up a lot in the full back areas with Digne / Coleman pushed forward and the wingers moving closer to the striker. The amount of times we would have no-one in the centre of midfield when we gave away cheap possession was frightening. 

Exactly, hence my initial question about how you would adapt a starting XI if you’re set to dominate or counter vs being on the defensive. There will be a basic layout for both but you’re stuck making the same XI for both for most of the game most of the time. It’s a real headache!

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Well our squad’s certainly deeper and better balanced than I can remember in a long, long time. We have at least 2 quality players for every position - I’m not writing Gibson off but that’s clearly where we’ve missed out. Add Zouma to this squad and we’d be laughing!

Pickford/Lossl

Coleman/Sidibé 

Digne/Baines

Keane/Holgate

Mina/Gibson

Gbamin/Schneiderlin 

Gomes/Delph

Gylfi/Davies

Richarlison/Walcott

Bernard/Iwobi

Kean/DCL/Tosun

There aren’t many squads better than that. We just need to shift Mirallas, Martina, Bolasie and Niasse (and Onyekuru) but it really does look like we have a plan at last... a lot of credit to Brands for this and Moshiri of course. It actually looks like future windows will be tweaks rather than 6/7 signings now with this young squad.

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2 hours ago, Matt said:

Exactly, hence my initial question about how you would adapt a starting XI if you’re set to dominate or counter vs being on the defensive. There will be a basic layout for both but you’re stuck making the same XI for both for most of the game most of the time. It’s a real headache!

Under Silva, the truth is you probably wouldn't adapt the formation it's just that they would naturally play higher up the pitch and someone like Gomes would probably end up slightly further forward than the other central midfielder.

If you take Kean out of the equation purely because I don't know enough about him, then up front you would bring in DCL when you wanted to counter and Tosun in when you needed more guile. Kean could bring both, hopefully anyway. 

The rest is just down to fitness and form. 

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Back four doesn’t change unless there is a real drop of form. 

                          Pickford 

Coleman     Keane    Mina      Digne

Full back replacements are straight forward, terrified what happens if Keane or Mina get injured (or if Mina isn’t very good). 

When everyone is fit I think our strongest midfield and forward line is...

                     Gomes     Delph

                              Gylfi

Richarlison                                Bernard

                               DCL/Kean

I can’t chose between Kean and DCL without seeing more of Kean, but I can’t wait to find out how good he is. Not got the slightest clue about Gbamin so I have no expectations of him. I also have no problem with the following line up

                Davies     Morgan

                        Bernard

Walcott                                  Iwobi

                         DCL/Kean

Really shows the strength in depth we have, and I think Bernard could be very useful in the number ten position with more PL experience. 

Going to throw this option in there, at home, against teams who let us have the ball and hoping Gbamin is good enough. 

Richarlison     Gomes     Gbamin     Iwobi

                          DCL         Kean

Tactically I don’t see plan A changing too much from playing down the channels, I don’t see plan B changing too much from playing down the middle. One thing I miss from the Martinez days is the over lapping full back looking for a cut back to the penalty spot. With players like Gylfi and Gomes attacking from deep these types of balls can be very effecting. In the Moyes days he would target the back post with players like Cahill and Fellaini, but we don’t have that kind of aerial threat anymore. 

Another option at home against the more defensive teams would be...

                   Morgan/Gbamin

Richarlison  Gylfi   Gomes    Bernard

                         DCL/Kean

now that is still very much a 433/4231/451 (depending on how you like to talk about it) but while we are talking tactics; against teams who are happy to sit back and not attack us, leave a midfield sitter and effectively play with two number tens. Floating around the edge of the box, pulling defenders and midfielders all over the place, the two wingers can get very narrow and overload the box while full backs move forward. 

 

In brief, while we have such a big squad now we have a lot of options. 

Realistically, if we get beaten tomorrow it will all he shite and miserable anyway. 

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1 minute ago, c1982 said:

All of a sudden we’re looking short of options in central midfield with Delph and Gomes injured and Schneiderlin suspended - maybe we did need Doucoure or another.

I don't think you can plan for 3 players being out in the same position.

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On 09/08/2019 at 08:25, Palfy said:

I think I would like to see. 

                               Pickford. 

Sidibe.           Keane.            Mina.       Digne. 

                   Gabamin.         Gomes. 

Richarlison.             Iwobi.           Bernard. 

                                  Kean. 

But I’m sure Bills right the new players won’t be introduced straight away. 

Would like to see this lineup.  Hard to see Siggy not starting but hoping this swap happens at some point.

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Yeah that's a good team, I think Iwobi and Kean must come in, we looked a bit toothless in the scoring department against Palace.  Watford at home would be a good one to bring them in.

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I think Silva wants to play Iwobu, Kean and Richarliso as his front three. Bernard should be the fall guy, he just has very little end product and looks like a rabbit in the headlights as soon as he gets near the goal. It's all well and good cruyff turning on the halfway line but we need goals and imo, he will never be productive in this department.

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1 hour ago, sydneyneil said:

I think Silva wants to play Iwobu, Kean and Richarliso as his front three. Bernard should be the fall guy, he just has very little end product and looks like a rabbit in the headlights as soon as he gets near the goal. It's all well and good cruyff turning on the halfway line but we need goals and imo, he will never be productive in this department.

I’d like to see this. Pace, power and an eye for goal

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5 hours ago, sydneyneil said:

I think Silva wants to play Iwobu, Kean and Richarliso as his front three. Bernard should be the fall guy, he just has very little end product and looks like a rabbit in the headlights as soon as he gets near the goal. It's all well and good cruyff turning on the halfway line but we need goals and imo, he will never be productive in this department.

I want this front 3 with Bernard in the Siggy role where his quick feet and a ility means he will have more freedom to operate. I think he will be very productive for us there.

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2 hours ago, London Blue said:

I want this front 3 with Bernard in the Siggy role where his quick feet and a ility means he will have more freedom to operate. I think he will be very productive for us there.

I’d like to see that as it looks exciting, however you can’t forget Siggys goal contribution and at the moment I don’t see Bernard getting close to scoring the same amount. 

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12 minutes ago, barryj said:

I’d like to see that as it looks exciting, however you can’t forget Siggys goal contribution and at the moment I don’t see Bernard getting close to scoring the same amount. 

This is why I think Sigurdsson is such a good pairing with DCL. Gylfi is probably our best all-round finisher in the team currently (last game permitting), so he helps to make up for Dominic’s lack of goals up front. 

That’s why I’m hoping Kean can show a bit of improved movement and finishing in the box. It means we can play more of a creator in the AM role, like a Bernard or Iwobi, and not be worried about a lack of scoring power. 

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I’d like to see a midfield three of Delph, Gomes and gbamin when fully fit. This would give Gomes more scope to venture forward and use our full backs and iwobi/Richarlison for width. It’s a narrow midfield not too dissimilar to Liverpool.

We would have to make up for sigurdssons goals elsewhere but surely we are all now wondering what we would be like in an orthodox 4-3-3 without him???

would the team be better balanced? More importantly, I just want a change from this 4-2-3-1 we seem to have been playing for too long.....

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18 hours ago, StevO said:

I want to see Iwobi and Kean on Saturday. Hopefully Kean starts, but I don’t see it really. 

That’s a must for me we need to see goals if we ever want to move to the next level. 

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