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I don't even think you have to understand the history of the cup to understand that a trophy is a trophy. It's definitely not meaningless if Europe is on the line.

We have players that are capable of concentrating on both, but if they can't then they shouldn't be playing for us anyway. Taking any competition less serious than the next is a disrespect to the sport.

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Not sure when we became a fanbase that turns it's nose up at actually winning a trophy and bringing some success to the club after nearly two and a half decades of fook all, but as for as I'm concerned I want us to win every competition we enter, and I really hope Silva has a proper go at getting some silverware this (and every) season. That said, we'll probably struggle against Lincoln and get beat one nil like we did against Grimsby in the 80's 😀

 

 

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4 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

i remember what a big deal it was when swansea won it with laudrup and my best mate michu banging em in.  it raised the profile of their club and they had a cup final at their stadium after that. 

And where are they now?

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8 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

And where are they now?

last ten years have been CIty, United, Liverpool Spurs, Chelsea, Swans, Birmingham.  Many won it multiple times.8 of 10 have been top 4 teams and winning trophies during that time.  Swans and Bham the only odd ones out that were relegated.  I like my chances at 80% success rate.

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13 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

And where are they now?

I don’t think winning that cup and their decline after than be linked in any way. 

But if you want to link it, then that’s why city won the league. It cup is the key!

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13 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

last ten years have been CIty, United, Liverpool Spurs, Chelsea, Swans, Birmingham.  Many won it multiple times.8 of 10 have been top 4 teams and winning trophies during that time.  Swans and Bham the only odd ones out that were relegated.  I like my chances at 80% success rate.

Hardly a good statistical sample, but the only teams not in the top six at the time have since been relegated. I would suggest teams win because they are top six. The corollary is clearly not true: winning this cup is not a path to becoming top six. 

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Just now, Cornish Steve said:

Hardly a good statistical sample, but the only teams not in the top six at the time have since been relegated. I would suggest teams win because they are top six. The corollary is clearly not true: winning this cup is not a path to becoming top six. 

Just as winning it doesn’t mean the demise of a team. 

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1 hour ago, Cornish Steve said:

Hardly a good statistical sample, but the only teams not in the top six at the time have since been relegated. I would suggest teams win because they are top six. The corollary is clearly not true: winning this cup is not a path to becoming top six. 

Winning the trophy means... you’ve won the trophy! One that the club hasn’t won before and the first of any trophy since 1995. Nothing more and nothing less. 

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38 minutes ago, StevO said:

Winning the trophy means... you’ve won the trophy! One that the club hasn’t won before and the first of any trophy since 1995. Nothing more and nothing less. 

it also means Ste and thousands of other Evertonians are probably very drunk ;)

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19 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

You and I are both older than the League Cup competition. If prestige comes with age, what happened in our case? :shakingfist:

My grandfather fought in WW-I, and my brother was researching his medals. Most are genuine, but one was given out after the war by one of the national newspapers (Daily Sketch, maybe?). Do you think that medal carries anywhere near as much respect as the others? The Caraboa Cup/League Cup is the Daily Sketch medal of trophies.

If others are satisfied with winning such silverware, then so be it. Personally, I want to see Everton become once again the best team in the land, and I don't want anything getting in the way of that. I won't be satisfied with anything less than the best - and surely that's the attitude we should have as fans. Scraps at the table might satisfy some, but we should be looking to feast year after year.

 

Scraps on the table my arse, that’s like a homeless bloke who is suffering from malnutrition because he hasn’t eaten for months turning down a steak because it was bought from Aldi 

We have done a fantastic job of not getting distracted by the League Cup but it’s not helped us win a fucking thing in 26 years, I think maybe we need a new plan

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On 15/08/2019 at 10:35, aaron said:

Go and ask Man City if it means nothing. It was the start of their trophy haul in the recent years.

Honestly cant believe I've read people turning their nose up at a meaningful trophy. Absolute disgrace that.

Spot on, it was the same for us and we didn’t even win it 

Just go and read Graeme Sharps autobiography. He says that the moment that the greatest side in Everton’s history began to really believe in themselves was when they went toe to toe with The Shite at Wembley in the League Cup final. That was the springboard to all their success , but what does he know Pete says it’s meaningless so we might as well go another 26 years without a trophy 

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2 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Spot on, it was the same for us and we didn’t even win it 

Just go and read Graeme Sharps autobiography. He says that the moment that the greatest side in Everton’s history began to really believe in themselves was when they went toe to toe with The Shite at Wembley in the League Cup final. That was the springboard to all their success , but what does he know Pete says it’s meaningless so we might as well go another 26 years without a trophy 

Your argument that we should try and win it... is based on a comment about that time we never won it 😂 

Fuck me, remember when this was for thinking Evertonian. Back in those days the league Cup had more prestige, now it's an inconvenience for most clubs until they get the final, even then Watford stuck with their second keeper. Winning the league Cup is hardly winning a trophy anymore than if we'd nabbed the SportsPesa, I'd not attend the parade. 

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3 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Your argument that we should try and win it... is based on a comment about that time we never won it 😂 

Fuck me, remember when this was for thinking Evertonian. Back in those days the league Cup had more prestige, now it's an inconvenience for most clubs until they get the final, even then Watford stuck with their second keeper. 

When has it ever been about being a thinking Evertonian for you? You're so off base on so many topics. 

Love your posts (mostly), but come on. 

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19 minutes ago, Sibdane said:

When has it ever been about being a thinking Evertonian for you? You're so off base on so many topics. 

Love your posts (mostly), but come on. 

There's logic behind most my posts, maybe I stumble explaining it but get there in the end so at least people can see where I'm coming from.

Most have come round to the idea that we'll be a better side without Gana as the benefit of him pressing is outweighed by the cost of him being out of position. The other main one last year was probs saying DCL is better suited than Tosun for the system we play which I think most would agree. Only one atm is probably Sigurdssen, I don't think he's suited to the system as he's not the quickest over a short distance to excel at pressing. All had a few agreeing or suggesting it before me and our minority has tended to swell as the games go by. 

Was gonna say minority increased by it seems a bit of an oxymoron. 

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14 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Your argument that we should try and win it... is based on a comment about that time we never won it 😂 

Fuck me, remember when this was for thinking Evertonian. Back in those days the league Cup had more prestige, now it's an inconvenience for most clubs until they get the final, even then Watford stuck with their second keeper. Winning the league Cup is hardly winning a trophy anymore than if we'd nabbed the SportsPesa, I'd not attend the parade. 

It still has a prestigious place in English football, it gives 92 clubs the opportunity to go to Wembley and win a trophy in front of 35,000 plus of their own supporters, that's not an inconvenience that's a dream for a lot of people including the players and staff.

And if you are lucky enough to win it you are further rewarded with a place in European football, but I suppose you would find that an inconvenience as well.

I have agreed with you on certain things in the past, but I must say you and Cornish are way off the mark with this one.

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41 minutes ago, pete0 said:

There's logic behind most my posts, maybe I stumble explaining it but get there in the end so at least people can see where I'm coming from.

Most have come round to the idea that we'll be a better side without Gana as the benefit of him pressing is outweighed by the cost of him being out of position. The other main one last year was probs saying DCL is better suited than Tosun for the system we play which I think most would agree. Only one atm is probably Sigurdssen, I don't think he's suited to the system as he's not the quickest over a short distance to excel at pressing. All had a few agreeing or suggesting it before me and our minority has tended to swell as the games go by. 

Was gonna say minority increased by it seems a bit of an oxymoron. 

I don't agree that "most" will say we are a better side without Gana. There's currently no proof of that. I will agree that DCL is currently better suited to Silva's system though, and I agree that Gylfi isn't the quickest. 

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19 minutes ago, Palfy said:

It still has a prestigious place in English football, it gives 92 clubs the opportunity to go to Wembley and win a trophy in front of 35,000 plus of their own supporters, that's not an inconvenience that's a dream for a lot of people including the players and staff.

And if you are lucky enough to win it you are further rewarded with a place in European football, but I suppose you would find that an inconvenience as well.

I have agreed with you on certain things in the past, but I must say you and Cornish are way off the mark with this one.

I'm guessing I'm a bit younger, for my generation the league Cup has always been a second rate competition that's struggled to attract a sponsor. 

If we won it I'd be happy for the chance to go to Wembley and for European football, but I'd not count it as ending our trophy drought. 

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1 hour ago, pete0 said:

There's logic behind most my posts, maybe I stumble explaining it but get there in the end so at least people can see where I'm coming from.

Most have come round to the idea that we'll be a better side without Gana as the benefit of him pressing is outweighed by the cost of him being out of position. The other main one last year was probs saying DCL is better suited than Tosun for the system we play which I think most would agree. Only one atm is probably Sigurdssen, I don't think he's suited to the system as he's not the quickest over a short distance to excel at pressing. All had a few agreeing or suggesting it before me and our minority has tended to swell as the games go by. 

Was gonna say minority increased by it seems a bit of an oxymoron. 

Logic is generous...

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2 hours ago, pete0 said:

Most have come round to the idea that we'll be a better side without Gana as the benefit of him pressing is outweighed by the cost of him being out of position. 

I’ve really got to ask, who has come round to this idea to be considered “most”?

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7 hours ago, pete0 said:

Your argument that we should try and win it... is based on a comment about that time we never won it 😂 

Fuck me, remember when this was for thinking Evertonian. Back in those days the league Cup had more prestige, now it's an inconvenience for most clubs until they get the final, even then Watford stuck with their second keeper. Winning the league Cup is hardly winning a trophy anymore than if we'd nabbed the SportsPesa, I'd not attend the parade. 

As always you’ve missed the point. 

Back then we had a young up and coming side and the mere fact they got to Wembley and more than matched The Shite over the two games, we would have won it if the ref had not ignored Hansen's hand ball,  instilled a lot of belief in them. It made them realise they could compete with the best

So much so that we went on to have a strong finish in the league that season and were back at Wembley a few months later to lift the FA Cup and the most successful ever Everton side was born

Most say the real turning point for that side was even earlier , that it was a late equaliser by Adrian Heath against Oxford in the quarter final of a cup competition, guess which one?

Either way if Kendall had your attitude to winning trophies back then he may have rested players against Oxford and lost that game , lost his job and the great  side of the 80’s may never have come to fruition 

By the way it was the FA Cup final where Watford played their second keeper, so should we not try and win that either?

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5 hours ago, pete0 said:

I'm guessing I'm a bit younger, for my generation the league Cup has always been a second rate competition that's struggled to attract a sponsor. 

If we won it I'd be happy for the chance to go to Wembley and for European football, but I'd not count it as ending our trophy drought. 

That is a very good point that you are of a different generation who have seen some managers not pay the attention to the competition that I feel it deserves, it maybe the way of foreign management even some don’t pay the FA cup the credit it deserves till later rounds. 

It would be a great day to go to Wembley and feel the atmosphere and emotion of a cup day again, and if we won I’m sure the euphoria would take over and your mind set would change. 

 

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15 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

As always you’ve missed the point. 

Back then we had a young up and coming side and the mere fact they got to Wembley and more than matched The Shite over the two games, we would have won it if the ref had not ignored Hansen's hand ball,  instilled a lot of belief in them. It made them realise they could compete with the best

So much so that we went on to have a strong finish in the league that season and were back at Wembley a few months later to lift the FA Cup and the most successful ever Everton side was born

Most say the real turning point for that side was even earlier , that it was a late equaliser by Adrian Heath against Oxford in the quarter final of a cup competition, guess which one?

Either way if Kendall had your attitude to winning trophies back then he may have rested players against Oxford and lost that game , lost his job and the great  side of the 80’s may never have come to fruition 

 

That’s a very good point about resting players, years ago when the the teams in the top tier were predominantly managed by British managers there was no such thing as resting players in cup games, teams gave their all which gave all domestic cups that big special feeling that they were worth dyeing for, and supporters couldn’t wait for a cup game league or FA for me it didn’t matter. 

So Pete is right when he says he doesn’t feel that connection, he has grown up in a environment where I believe foreign managers have diluted our cups and the European cups have become much more important. 

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8 hours ago, StevO said:

I’ve really got to ask, who has come round to this idea to be considered “most”?

Feel free to make a poll. 

4 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

As always you’ve missed the point. 

Back then we had a young up and coming side and the mere fact they got to Wembley and more than matched The Shite over the two games, we would have won it if the ref had not ignored Hansen's hand ball,  instilled a lot of belief in them. It made them realise they could compete with the best

So much so that we went on to have a strong finish in the league that season and were back at Wembley a few months later to lift the FA Cup and the most successful ever Everton side was born

Most say the real turning point for that side was even earlier , that it was a late equaliser by Adrian Heath against Oxford in the quarter final of a cup competition, guess which one?

Either way if Kendall had your attitude to winning trophies back then he may have rested players against Oxford and lost that game , lost his job and the great  side of the 80’s may never have come to fruition 

By the way it was the FA Cup final where Watford played their second keeper, so should we not try and win that either?

Back then you never had the depth to rest players. Back then the cup might have meant something. Present day the league Cup is an inconvenience to most. Probs showing my age, the FA cup was still a special occasion when I was young, but it has devalued since. 

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Going back to the beginning of the 84/85 season the cup winners cup was seen as a bit of a second rate competition and that we'd struggle with the demands of European football. Is anybody willing to swap that now, even tho it probably cost us the fa cup? I don't think so.

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36 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Feel free to make a poll. 

Back then you never had the depth to rest players. Back then the cup might have meant something. Present day the league Cup is an inconvenience to most. Probs showing my age, the FA cup was still a special occasion when I was young, but it has devalued since. 

That’s the FA cup and league cup written off then? So just the Premier League to play for? I’ve got a feeling you are going to be disappointed for many many years especially with FFP in play now. 

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8 minutes ago, barryj said:

That’s the FA cup and league cup written off then? So just the Premier League to play for? I’ve got a feeling you are going to be disappointed for many many years especially with FFP in play now. 

I'd be happy with an fa cup. I'd prioritise it as:

Premier League

(Champions league) 

Top 4 / (Europa league) 

Fa cup 

Top 6

Avoid relegation 

League cup

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12 hours ago, Sibdane said:

I don't agree that "most" will say we are a better side without Gana. There's currently no proof of that. I will agree that DCL is currently better suited to Silva's system though, and I agree that Gylfi isn't the quickest. 

I think DCL is better suited to Silva's system when we play on the counter attack especially against the top sides but he is no better than Tosun against sides that park the bus. 

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14 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I think DCL is better suited to Silva's system when we play on the counter attack especially against the top sides but he is no better than Tosun against sides that park the bus. 

That's true, but then again, we don't have any striker that's capable of creating something from nothing against teams that park the bus. Hopefully Kean turns out to be that player.

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39 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I think DCL is better suited to Silva's system when we play on the counter attack especially against the top sides but he is no better than Tosun against sides that park the bus. 

I'd rather Tosun have started against Palace albeit in a different system. If we stick with this system regardless of opposition Tosun shouldn't play.

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On 17/08/2019 at 12:09, pete0 said:

I'd be happy with an fa cup. I'd prioritise it as:

Premier League

(Champions league) 

Top 4 / (Europa league) 

Fa cup 

Top 6

Avoid relegation 

League cup

So you’d prioritise winning the FA cup over being relegated? Come on - I know you don’t like the league cup and are trying to make a point but again I struggle to see your logic. 

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16 minutes ago, barryj said:

So you’d prioritise winning the FA cup over being relegated? Come on - I know you don’t like the league cup and are trying to make a point but again I struggle to see your logic. 

5 years ago I'd have said avoid relegation but the drought is only getting longer.

If you got to the FA Cup final and also needed to get a result in the last game of the season what would you prioritise? 

 

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34 minutes ago, barryj said:

So you’d prioritise winning the FA cup over being relegated? Come on - I know you don’t like the league cup and are trying to make a point but again I struggle to see your logic. 

I honk any fan would prioritise winning he FA cup over being relegated mate haha.

Why would any fan want to prioritise being relegated 😉

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I think what PeteO is saying, is that working from the bottom up.... he would rather concentrate on AVOIDING relegation before winning the league cup. 

I don’t agree myself, I don’t think as a club you should ever target not getting relegated. Mine would be:

Winning Premier.

CL qualification.

FA cup.

League cup.

Europa qualification.

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3 hours ago, Shukes said:

I think what PeteO is saying, is that working from the bottom up.... he would rather concentrate on AVOIDING relegation before winning the league cup. 

I don’t agree myself, I don’t think as a club you should ever target not getting relegated. Mine would be:

Winning Premier.

CL qualification.

FA cup.

League cup.

Europa qualification.

But that’s not even an argument to have? We haven’t been close to relegation for many years so why bring it up as a priority? We have got to the final of the FA cup in 2009 and finished 5th, semi final 15/16 and finishing mid table so saying the Caraboa Cup would give us an added chance of relegation is absurd. It’s just another nonsense debate. 

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5 minutes ago, barryj said:

But that’s not even an argument to have? We haven’t been close to relegation for many years so why bring it up as a priority? We have got to the final of the FA cup in 2009 and finished 5th, semi final 15/16 and finishing mid table so saying the Caraboa Cup would give us an added chance of relegation is absurd. It’s just another nonsense debate. 

I agree it’s nonsense to suggest the League cup is any kind of distraction.

I was just commenting on how I read PeteOs comment that’s all.

I don’t think he meant he is prioritising relegation. More that he feels avoiding it is more important a priority than winning what some class as a locket mouse cup.

I would rather win it myself and avoid relegation, and win the FA cup, and throw the prem title in while we’re at it.

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7 minutes ago, barryj said:

But that’s not even an argument to have? We haven’t been close to relegation for many years so why bring it up as a priority? We have got to the final of the FA cup in 2009 and finished 5th, semi final 15/16 and finishing mid table so saying the Caraboa Cup would give us an added chance of relegation is absurd. It’s just another nonsense debate. 

Think you're having half this conversation in your own head. Where I have said we'd be more likely to be relegated. 

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3 hours ago, pete0 said:

5 years ago I'd have said avoid relegation but the drought is only getting longer.

If you got to the FA Cup final and also needed to get a result in the last game of the season what would you prioritise? 

 

😂😂😂 - You’d take winning the FA cup and being relegated? You’re  crazier than I thought? Seriously. New stadium, Championship football and a Wembley final resembling more a wake than a celebration. 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Think you're having half this conversation in your own head. Where I have said we'd be more likely to be relegated. 

Then why would you not want to win it? 🤦‍♂️

I’m also waiting for your answer above.

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12 minutes ago, barryj said:

😂😂😂 - You’d take winning the FA cup and being relegated? You’re  crazier than I thought? Seriously. New stadium, Championship football and a Wembley final resembling more a wake than a celebration. 

 

 

I used to be on the other side of that argument but I was only a kid last time we won anything so hopefully we'll get another soon. 

7 minutes ago, barryj said:

Then why would you not want to win it? 🤦‍♂️

I’m also waiting for your answer above.

Fucking question with a question, come off it. When have you asked me that any way I must have missed it? 

As Shukes as already clarified. 

24 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I don’t think he meant he is prioritising relegation. More that he feels avoiding it is more important a priority than winning what some class as a locket mouse cup.

 

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7 hours ago, pete0 said:

5 years ago I'd have said avoid relegation but the drought is only getting longer.

If you got to the FA Cup final and also needed to get a result in the last game of the season what would you prioritise? 

 

I think Pete has actually managed to out Pete himself!

if I’m reading this right you have no interest in winning or even competing in this competition ( win a trophy ) but you would happily take relegation if it meant winning the FA Cup because the trophy drought has gone on too long ?

Thats some fucked up logic even by your standards 

 

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18 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

I think Pete has actually managed to out Pete himself!

if I’m reading this right you have no interest in winning or even competing in this competition ( win a trophy ) but you would happily take relegation if it meant winning the FA Cup because the trophy drought has gone on too long ?

Thats some fucked up logic even by your standards 

 

Already said I don't see the league cup as worth anymore than a preseason tournament trophy. 

Villa fans recognise Everton as being more successful than them. If league cups were worth more than squat they'd have an argument. 

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Villa fans really think that? They won the European cup! The best cup we’ve ever won had been shut down. Think Villa fans are treating themselves a bit harsh. 

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20 minutes ago, StevO said:

Villa fans really think that? They won the European cup! The best cup we’ve ever won had been shut down. Think Villa fans are treating themselves a bit harsh. 

Nine league titles to their seven. The league is like a gold medal, rather have one gold medal than two silver. 

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3 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Nine league titles to their seven. The league is like a gold medal, rather have one gold medal than two silver. 

I’m still pretty sure their fans won’t be thinking we are a bigger club, as much as I think we are a bigger club. 

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13 minutes ago, StevO said:

I’m still pretty sure their fans won’t be thinking we are a bigger club, as much as I think we are a bigger club. 

Not bigger but more successful. Alex Ferguson knocked Liverpool off their perch by overtaking their league title haul even though Liverpool had more European. 

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42 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Not bigger but more successful. Alex Ferguson knocked Liverpool off their perch by overtaking their league title haul even though Liverpool had more European. 

But Liverpool fans will still think they are bigger won’t they? 

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8 hours ago, pete0 said:

Why does it matter of they think they're bigger. We're talking about success. 

Because you said Villa fans think Everton are more successful. Bigger and success go hand in hand. You don’t get more glory points for different trophies. I’m still not sure why you brought Villa into it. 

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4 hours ago, StevO said:

Because you said Villa fans think Everton are more successful. Bigger and success go hand in hand. You don’t get more glory points for different trophies. I’m still not sure why you brought Villa into it. 

Don’t do it to yourself you’ll find yourself trying to explain your point over and over! I got sucked in yesterday 🤣

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On 25/08/2019 at 12:54, Shukes said:

I honk any fan would prioritise winning he FA cup over being relegated mate haha.

Why would any fan want to prioritise being relegated 😉

I honk that’s what clowns 🤡 do! Oh yeah makes sense now can see why you said it 😂

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