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Cisk

Realistic Next Manager Thoughts...

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Ive no idea where we are going to go next. I think Brands will be scouting options already behind the scenes and we will appoint another foreign manager we may or may not have heard of - with no PL experience Im guessing. Dont see any obvs British Managers out there at this time unless we revert back to Moyes with money.

So...... Id like to see your ideas on 1 British and 1 Foreign manager who could be next realistic managers for us. Brief I think would be top 6 finish using players who are not quite top draw but have the potential to be and at mid price range maximum

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David Moyes with Tim Cahill coming in as an assistant in some capacity.

We could do a LOT LOT worse

I would imagine he would be looking at players like Aaron Mooy for his work rate. We need to sign players who are capable of stepping up rather than looking to revive a failing career at a big club

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8 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

If silva is gone. I want gallardo at river plate but that’s probably pie in the sky. Benitez for me. No sentiment. 

Id have big concerns with Gallardo. Benitez is a good shout as long as he is not in retirement land.

Would like Simeone (obs language barrier though), Alegri may be helpful to Kean? Both unlikely. Viera done anything of note?

Not sure what damage Sociedad and Sunderland has done to Moyes. Arteta too much of a risk.

As you can see...really struggling here

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1 minute ago, Cisk said:

Id have big concerns with Gallardo. Benitez is a good shout as long as he is not in retirement land.

Would like Simeone (obs language barrier though), Alegri may be helpful to Kean? Both unlikely. Viera done anything of note?

Not sure what damage Sociedad and Sunderland has done to Moyes. Arteta too much of a risk.

As you can see...really struggling here

I just think like a few of us you have said Benitez, he’s a good shout for the stability we are looking for, my only concern with Moyes and it’s not his ability, it is that he would becoming back to a club where he wouldn’t have all the say he was used to when he was last here. 
Would he clash with Moshiri and Brands a few months in, when they start to question him, and the players he wants going forward. 

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Here's my theory: Money talks. Offer Pochettino an annual salary that makes him one of the highest paid managers in world football. Tell him that in the summer of 2020 he's got a $150M transfer kitty to work with Brands on. He knows the EPL and I believe, probably naively, that Everton is a sleeping giant. We've already got the players to play the way he wants to play. Spurs never invested the money Everton has. 

To be quite honest, I'm so sick of Silva and tired of losing matches that should be comfortable wins that I'll take anyone new. Don't prefer Moyes but he wasn't half bad with West Ham last year was it? Anyone but Silva at this point.

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10 hours ago, sydneyneil said:

Strong rumours it will be Moyes. He was also interviewed prior to allardyces appointment so it’s certainly on their minds. Moyes as interim with a chance to go perm....

Don't know why these keep getting down voted. Do fans really want to live in an echo chamber where we all blow smoke up each other's arses. We are in deep shit because we have not had stability since Moyes left. It isn't a giant leap to make to understand why he would be desirable to the board.

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13 minutes ago, sydneyneil said:

Why do people keep on saying brands Is the guy to hire and fire but then slag moshiri off...too many chefs here

Because, the impression I get is that, Brands has his own ideas of which players he wants to bring in but Moshiri wants to make some big statement signings. Brands has been brought in to operate the club in a certain way but then Moshiri has his own input and desires a big name signing to promote the club. This is what made the previous transfer window a calamity after looking like a promising start.

The problem is that football clubs shouldn't really be operated like a business but more like an army. A football club, like an army, must win at all costs. The business side of things is just to facilitate this aim.

Moshiri should concentrate on the financial side of things and ensure that the results are proportionate to the amount of money being spent. The actual football side of things should be left to the playing staff. You wouldn't have a politician suggesting to his generals how to fight a war or which troops to deploy!

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7 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I don’t get the hate for Moyes. He did excellently for us with no budget. First manager in a long time not to get the sack.

I'd have him back tomorrow and I think he is being judged on his stints at Sunderland and West Ham which were much more toxic environments at the time.

What we need is a manager who will take ownership of the club, give it confidence in keeping a clean sheet, rebuild that reputation that opponents are going to have to be at 100% to get a result.

The fans and the board need to get behind this dogs of war mentality and if it means bringing out those 1-0 wins then so be it. That has always been our mentality, even in the glory days, we have always been a team that will fuck up your day and that attitude needs to come back.

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38 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Because, the impression I get is that, Brands has his own ideas of which players he wants to bring in but Moshiri wants to make some big statement signings. Brands has been brought in to operate the club in a certain way but then Moshiri has his own input and desires a big name signing to promote the club. This is what made the previous transfer window a calamity after looking like a promising start.

The problem is that football clubs shouldn't really be operated like a business but more like an army. A football club, like an army, must win at all costs. The business side of things is just to facilitate this aim.

Moshiri should concentrate on the financial side of things and ensure that the results are proportionate to the amount of money being spent. The actual football side of things should be left to the playing staff. You wouldn't have a politician suggesting to his generals how to fight a war or which troops to deploy!

The important quote here is “the impression I get” which means that we don’t know. No one knows who is in charge of buying players and hiring or sacking of managers at this club and it’s being run disgracefully. Either way, Silva is not the right man for Everton and someone needs to get rid of him. Whoever that is....

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11 minutes ago, pete0 said:

He ran out of ideas and should have been sacked a good three years earlier than he left. But Bill stuck by him through shear loyalty only to be repaid by Moyes doing the dirty and running down his contract, which is even worse as Moyes had criticised players for doing the same. 

The bloke's a dinosaur, as he even managed a second season since leaving us? He also barely brought through a youth player and stuck with favourites out of position over them. The worst occasion opting for Hibbert on an injury to play centre half over Duffy and Mustafi. Playing Neville against Wigan in the FA cup semi or am injured Rodwell on the wing being contenders too. 

I disagree with that. I thought his last season at Everton was a relatively successful one and we were starting to play some really good football finally. Everyone says Martinez took the shackles off Moyes's team but I think Moyes was getting there anyway. The difference was Lukaku coming in.

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Dalian Yifang - Benitez's team play their last game of the season next Saturday. 

If you need someone to come in right away and make sure you're not in the bottom three in January it's him.

I think it's a no brainer

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20 minutes ago, Latchford9 said:

Dalian Yifang - Benitez's team play their last game of the season next Saturday. 

If you need someone to come in right away and make sure you're not in the bottom three in January it's him.

I think it's a no brainer

That's the best and most realistic option we have right now. If I was in Moshiri shoes, I would call Pochettino first. I know the chances he'll become our manager are next to zero, but still it would not hurt if we try to persuade him, who knows.

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1 hour ago, Shukes said:

All I can see is that we have gone backwards since Moyes. I want us to be better than we are now.

I would cut our losses with Silva and give Unsy a few months. Can’t do any worse.

Agree with this, at least to get through the next run of games. I don’t see any other manager pulling out wins except maybe against United. 

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17 hours ago, TallPaul1878 said:

David Moyes with Tim Cahill coming in as an assistant in some capacity.

We could do a LOT LOT worse

I would imagine he would be looking at players like Aaron Mooy for his work rate. We need to sign players who are capable of stepping up rather than looking to revive a failing career at a big club

Agree. We need hunger and we need players who have as much fight as natural ability. We also need people in the dressing room who can get players passionate about playing for Everton again. 

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4 hours ago, pete0 said:

He ran out of ideas and should have been sacked a good three years earlier than he left. But Bill stuck by him through shear loyalty only to be repaid by Moyes doing the dirty and running down his contract, which is even worse as Moyes had criticised players for doing the same. 

The bloke's a dinosaur, as he even managed a second season since leaving us? He also barely brought through a youth player and stuck with favourites out of position over them. The worst occasion opting for Hibbert on an injury to play centre half over Duffy and Mustafi. Playing Neville against Wigan in the FA cup semi or am injured Rodwell on the wing being contenders too. 

He brought through more youngsters than we've managed to since he left. Even though I still wished he'd been a bit braver blooding youngsters, his record wasn't that bad. 

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The difficulty we're in now is that Silva was the 'up and coming young manager' pick and it has backfired. We can't risk going down that route again now. We're back into damage limitation, inspiring a badly underperforming and unbalanced squad, someone who can hold some ground while the squad rebuild continues, someone who knows the PL. There aren't many who fit that bill. Rafa makes a lot of sense, but would he do it? Howe seems to need a certain profile of player to work with, Wilder won't leave Sheff Utd, we've missed out on Rodgers (and Mourinho for people of that persuasion). I don't think it's an easy next move at all. 

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It feels like the board are going to give Marco more time, having no announcement today, if so we’ll have to live with it. If they do make a decision please let it not be Allardyce, Hughes, Pulis or Moyes, non will take us forward imo. 

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6 hours ago, StevO said:

We played some fantastic football under Moyes, some really good attacking and exciting football. But it was ten years ago, his career has been a car crash ever since. 
He knew our club back to front and ran every aspect of it, but that whole set up has changed. We now have a different board of directors, a director of football, a bunch of scouts that work for the director of football and not the manager. I’m not sure this is a set up which Moyes would thrive in anymore. I honestly believe we had his best years, and that they are long behind him. 
Ive nothing but respect for his time here (I’d have liked us to get a pay day from United for him) and appreciate the job he did, I also think he dampened our expectations and made us believe we were as good as we could be. One thing I can say since Moshiri has come in he has lifted our expectations, but we haven’t found a way to see them happen. 

We played some good football but we also played some absolutely terrible football too, but I agree with the rest.

5 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

If we go near Moyes then I'm absolutely done with this season and Brands may as well start looking for another job because he won't have been involved in that.

Completely agree.

4 hours ago, Shukes said:

All I can see is that we have gone backwards since Moyes. I want us to be better than we are now.

I would cut our losses with Silva and give Unsy a few months. Can’t do any worse.

I would also say that almost all other teams have moved forward. I don't necessarily think that Moyes would be churning the same level of consistency in the league as it is now. 

2 hours ago, nogs said:

Agree. We need hunger and we need players who have as much fight as natural ability. We also need people in the dressing room who can get players passionate about playing for Everton again. 

Half the problem across the league is that most players don't give a shit and that is why lots of sides are winning one week and losing the next. Having said that I thought they all gave it a go on Saturday, but they just weren't good enough.

2 hours ago, nogs said:

The difficulty we're in now is that Silva was the 'up and coming young manager' pick and it has backfired. We can't risk going down that route again now. We're back into damage limitation, inspiring a badly underperforming and unbalanced squad, someone who can hold some ground while the squad rebuild continues, someone who knows the PL. There aren't many who fit that bill. Rafa makes a lot of sense, but would he do it? Howe seems to need a certain profile of player to work with, Wilder won't leave Sheff Utd, we've missed out on Rodgers (and Mourinho for people of that persuasion). I don't think it's an easy next move at all. 

Silva wasn't really up and coming though. He had won trophies and played in Europe, he had a better win ratio at Hull and Watford than Moyes had at either West Ham or Sunderland. The only thing he wasn't tested on was his longevity. Koeman has tried and tested and he failed, Martinez had won a cup and managed a premier league club for several seasons. I am surprised that you mentioned Wilder because he is completely unproven at this level, bar the last 6 months.

I am torn between trying to find someone who has been around the block and will build a foundation and genuinely trying to find the next big thing.

In terms of the solid managers there are Rafa, Dyche, Wenger, Van Gaal, , Ranieri, VIllas-Boas, Mancini, Southgate, Puel, Laudrup, Jol, Bilic.

There are couple early on in that list that would be OK but the rest arent exactly inspiring and I dont see them being an upgrade on what we have.

 

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Look at the job wilder has done everywhere he has gone. He has the best win ratio for his teams that most other managers. That’s not coincidence. He has gone through the leagues and is making a mockery of the premier league. It annoys me that people dismiss someone like him just because he has gone through the leagues and isn’t foreign. How dare him. He has absolute belief in his formation and gets the best out of his players. 

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Rafa is getting huge money so if he gave that up to join us that would give you an indication he is still hungry. He is still relatively young and has a point to prove. I’m not saying he is the answer but he is the one I’d be leaning towards if I had a gun to my head. Someone like naigelsman would good as his reputation is top drawer. 

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Bailey I found your last post really bizarre. You really think Silva came to us a 'proven manager'? And yeah, I mentioned Wilder coz he has been a manager nearly 20 years, he's been round the block, learned his trade and now we're seeing the results of that at the highest level. Yet you list Bilic and Villas Boas as 'solid' - they did NOTHING in the PL. And do you really think Southgate would leave the England job for us right now?? 

And I dunno what you're on about half the players not caring. I'd say there are a handful of teams where that is a serious problem, and you seem to be suggesting that lack of effort isn't our problem, it's just our players are shite! 

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Silva has come here and done exactly what he did at Hull and Watford, which was have a good run of games which put him in the spotlight as a good manager, which he isn’t. 
At Hull he got them back into a position to beat relegation, with some cracking results, but when it came to the last few games of that season he failed to deliver and they were relegated. 
Then off of the back of his good run at Hull he gets the Watford job, goes on a great run which gets Moshiri interested, then he goes on a bad run and gets sacked. 
Moshiri doesn’t learn the lesson from the last 2 clubs, which is starts off well and finishes poorly, so he brings him here for the same thing to happen to us, and some think he should be given more time to see if can change it, he has proven he can’t change it at other clubs why would he be able to do it here. 
To change it he has to change, but he seems incapable of being able to do that, and that is why we are in the position we are, teams play us knowing how we will play and how to beat us, and Silva lacks any tactical knowledge to stop it happening as proven in his last 2 teams. 
To give him the next 4, 5 or 6 games is crazier than I am, at that’s fucking crazy 😜 

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5 hours ago, nogs said:

He brought through more youngsters than we've managed to since he left. Even though I still wished he'd been a bit braver blooding youngsters, his record wasn't that bad. 

Rooney aside there's not many, and I don't really think you can give too much credit for him as he was naturally better than any man at the club before he was even old enough to play for the first team. 

Vaughan, Anichebe, Rodwell, and Gosling all lost their careers to him (fortunately Rooney was a head of the curb growth wise otherwise he'd have possibly joined them on the scrap heap). Moyes didn't appreciate they were boys playing at all elite level, the pace of football and height of fitness having much more toil on their bodies than back in his day. 

The Ross Barkley situation was just weird as well, wouldn't use him and then sent him on dodgy loans to a manager that said he wouldn't suit their system and they wouldn't play him every week. 

Only player I can think he brought through was Coleman who he hung up to dry against Benfica but then had a good loan at Blackpool. When he did come in it was on the right wing for some much needed pace but even then Moyes left him there too long with the majority of fans calling him to move to right back before Moyes finally did. Even then Coleman probably learned more from Phil Neville than Moyes. 

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11 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Rooney aside there's not many, and I don't really think you can give too much credit for him as he was naturally better than any man at the club before he was even old enough to play for the first team. 

Vaughan, Anichebe, Rodwell, and Gosling all lost their careers to him (fortunately Rooney was a head of the curb growth wise otherwise he'd have possibly joined them on the scrap heap). Moyes didn't appreciate they were boys playing at all elite level, the pace of football and height of fitness having much more toil on their bodies than back in his day. 

The Ross Barkley situation was just weird as well, wouldn't use him and then sent him on dodgy loans to a manager that said he wouldn't suit their system and they wouldn't play him every week. 

Only player I can think he brought through was Coleman who he hung up to dry against Benfica but then had a good loan at Blackpool. When he did come in it was on the right wing for some much needed pace but even then Moyes left him there too long with the majority of fans calling him to move to right back before Moyes finally did. Even then Coleman probably learned more from Phil Neville than Moyes. 

He brought in youngsters like Stones and players like Lescott and turned them into world class players going for millions and costing pennies. 
He gave us Arteta who was on the scrap heap in Spain, he got us Cahill for peanuts, he got Jagielka a relegated midfielder and turned him into one of the best CH in the league, he got us Baines and helped turn him into one of the best LB in the world. 
Moyes knows a player when he sees one, something that no one seems to know how to replicate since he left. 

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4 minutes ago, Palfy said:

He brought in youngsters like Stones and players like Lescott and turned them into world class players going for millions and costing pennies. 
He gave us Arteta who was on the scrap heap in Spain, he got us Cahill for peanuts, he got Jagielka a relegated midfielder and turned him into one of the best CH in the league, he got us Baines and helped turn him into one of the best LB in the world. 
Moyes knows a player when he sees one, something that no one seems to know how to replicate since he left. 

Moyes didn't want Stones 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-scout-who-convinced-david-10015883.amp

Baines and Jagielka were both at the club as kids and let go. Moyes only used players that had already made it elsewhere. 

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31 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Moyes didn't want Stones 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-scout-who-convinced-david-10015883.amp

Baines and Jagielka were both at the club as kids and let go. Moyes only used players that had already made it elsewhere. 

No he didn’t he brought players in and developed them, he couldn’t afford to buy the finished article, he had the smallest budget to work with nearly every year he was here. 
If you think Stones, Cahill, Lescott, Baines, Pienaar, Arteta, Fellani and Jagielka where all the finished article before they got here you’re very mistaken, he helped them become the finished article, and in doing so kept this club afloat through there sales. 

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Eddie Howe.

Still only 41. Now in his 5th PL season. Knows the league. Has proven himself in the league. As far as I'm concerned, has gone above expectation with Bournemouth. Plays good football, Bournemouth are mostly good to watch as a neutral. His chance in a bigger pond is coming. And I think he'll do well when that chance comes.

Of course, he's English. Which in the mad world of English PL football makes him less desirable than an unknown foreigner.

isn't he an Evertonian too?

Edit: One of the common criteria amongst fans, or demands, is that the manager 'gets' Everton. He'd 'get' Everton...

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/eddie-howe-everton-dream-how-11275635

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2 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

Eddie Howe.

Still only 41. Now in his 5th PL season. Knows the league. Has proven himself in the league. As far as I'm concerned, has gone above expectation with Bournemouth. Plays good football, Bournemouth are mostly good to watch as a neutral. His chance in a bigger pond is coming. And I think he'll do well when that chance comes.

Of course, he's English. Which in the mad world of English PL football makes him less desirable than an unknown foreigner.

isn't he an Evertonian too?

Yes he is, and that’s not a bad shout. 

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3 hours ago, pete0 said:

Rooney aside there's not many, and I don't really think you can give too much credit for him as he was naturally better than any man at the club before he was even old enough to play for the first team. 

Vaughan, Anichebe, Rodwell, and Gosling all lost their careers to him (fortunately Rooney was a head of the curb growth wise otherwise he'd have possibly joined them on the scrap heap). Moyes didn't appreciate they were boys playing at all elite level, the pace of football and height of fitness having much more toil on their bodies than back in his day. 

The Ross Barkley situation was just weird as well, wouldn't use him and then sent him on dodgy loans to a manager that said he wouldn't suit their system and they wouldn't play him every week. 

Only player I can think he brought through was Coleman who he hung up to dry against Benfica but then had a good loan at Blackpool. When he did come in it was on the right wing for some much needed pace but even then Moyes left him there too long with the majority of fans calling him to move to right back before Moyes finally did. Even then Coleman probably learned more from Phil Neville than Moyes. 

Osman?

And isn't that a slight contradiction, saying he ruined certain lads careers by putting them through the mill physically but then not playing youngsters enough?? Vaughan was tragically unlucky. Rodwell, I dunno if he was born with dodgy hammies or just didn't have it upstairs to play at the top level. Anichebe didn't have much wrong with him physically, just wasn't a great footballer. 

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53 minutes ago, nogs said:

Osman?

And isn't that a slight contradiction, saying he ruined certain lads careers by putting them through the mill physically but then not playing youngsters enough?? Vaughan was tragically unlucky. Rodwell, I dunno if he was born with dodgy hammies or just didn't have it upstairs to play at the top level. Anichebe didn't have much wrong with him physically, just wasn't a great footballer. 

Osman came to Moyes at 23 and had a good loan before he was even here, helped us get 4th but wasn't rated by Moyes who was willing to let him go to Portsmouth. Instead he stayed, got chances through injury, and played most of his career out of position. Moyes even played Arteta on the wing for how long!? 

I've named every youngster almost in his decade tenure and 4 out of 5 are crocks. That's piss poor management, one, for not bringing more through, and two, physically damaging them. They were kids and he was giving them an adults workload. 

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13 hours ago, Newty82 said:

Eddie Howe.

Still only 41. Now in his 5th PL season. Knows the league. Has proven himself in the league. As far as I'm concerned, has gone above expectation with Bournemouth. Plays good football, Bournemouth are mostly good to watch as a neutral. His chance in a bigger pond is coming. And I think he'll do well when that chance comes.

Of course, he's English. Which in the mad world of English PL football makes him less desirable than an unknown foreigner.

isn't he an Evertonian too?

Edit: One of the common criteria amongst fans, or demands, is that the manager 'gets' Everton. He'd 'get' Everton...

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/eddie-howe-everton-dream-how-11275635

I'd have Eddie Howe at the club, especially if he brings Ake and Brookes with him.

My concern is that with our upcoming fixtures that any new manager would be on a hiding to nothing. No manager would agree to walk into that with the squad we have available.

Silva will be allowed to muddle through December until the bad fixtures have passed and the January window approaches.

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10 hours ago, pete0 said:

Osman came to Moyes at 23 and had a good loan before he was even here, helped us get 4th but wasn't rated by Moyes who was willing to let him go to Portsmouth. Instead he stayed, got chances through injury, and played most of his career out of position. Moyes even played Arteta on the wing for how long!? 

I've named every youngster almost in his decade tenure and 4 out of 5 are crocks. That's piss poor management, one, for not bringing more through, and two, physically damaging them. They were kids and he was giving them an adults workload. 

Moyes was the one who sent Ossie out on loan, then integrated him into the first XI. And I don't get your point about 'adult workloads' at all. Are young players meant to put in less of a shift even if they're picked for the first team? I don't remember the likes of Vaughan and Anichebe playing many games from the start anyway. 

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Been on the Howe bandwagon longer than most, and like Arteta also. Also don't hate the Moyes idea but only until the end of the season (especially if it means Tim Cahill on the coaching staff).

Just think it's exceptionally difficult for a club like ours to get a qualified manager midseason.

All that being said I'm going to completely contradict myself - made up my mind last night - we should be going full bore for Nuno Espirito Santo. 

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2 minutes ago, AlbanyNYToffee said:

Been on the Howe bandwagon longer than most, and like Arteta also. Also don't hate the Moyes idea but only until the end of the season (especially if it means Tim Cahill on the coaching staff).

Just think it's exceptionally difficult for a club like ours to get a qualified manager midseason.

All that being said I'm going to completely contradict myself - made up my mind last night - we should be going full bore for Nuno Espirito Santo. 

What about an Arteta/Cahill tandem? My heart says yes, but my mind says no. 

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Apparently Arteta has been offered the job they are waiting on his response, before they look for option B which may well be Moyes on a short term contract. 
This according to Football Insider 1hr ago. 

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