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Liverpool Derby (Away) Wednesday December 4th

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28 minutes ago, Btay said:

Zouma hasn’t been missed? Keane had a purple patch last year - and even then stunk the gaf out at times with silly mistakes. We got so lucky that Mina has shown the form he’s shown because he was such an unknown coming in, same with Holgate. At the end of the day - Keane is our senior most defender ( bar Coleman ) he isn’t a leader, he isn’t brave and he shrieks any responsibility. Mina and Zouma together ( with Zouma’s form last year ) would have been formidable, no doubts what so ever. 

Im seriously so off Keane, Gylfi and Morgan who just go through the motions right now. Doesn’t matter who was our manager at the start of this season - they struggle with the options available.

I honestly hope we back who ever comes in gets backed in January and we get a commanding centre half and a first team midfielder, otherwise - rinse and repeat.

How has Zouma been missed if Mina has took his vacant spot and played just as well? 

I agree they would be better. But that doesn't mean we've missed Zouma. It means last year we missed out because our manager opted for Keane. 

For what it's worth, I moaned all summer that they didn't suit and needed replacing. However a new manager will make a massive difference for all three. All three have proven they can cut it in the prem (albeit I'd say Keane is very lucky to be a footballer at all but he's tall and the way down Burnley set up carried him). They all just didn't suit the system Silva was trying to force on the squad given their lack of pace. 

 

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2 hours ago, pete0 said:

How has Zouma been missed if Mina has took his vacant spot and played just as well? 

I agree they would be better. But that doesn't mean we've missed Zouma. It means last year we missed out because our manager opted for Keane. 

For what it's worth, I moaned all summer that they didn't suit and needed replacing. However a new manager will make a massive difference for all three. All three have proven they can cut it in the prem (albeit I'd say Keane is very lucky to be a footballer at all but he's tall and the way down Burnley set up carried him). They all just didn't suit the system Silva was trying to force on the squad given their lack of pace. 

 

We have missed the depth he could have offered. Mina didn’t have a complete season due to injury so there wasn’t a real chance for him to cement himself in the team. In my opinion - we saw the very best of Micheal Keane last year, this year we are seeing more of what we’ve seen from him. If we had Zouma & Keane starting with Mina and Holgate waiting then we could have dropped Keane for Mina and had Zouma/Mina. I don’t know how this concept is lost on you. We were never going to be a top 6 team with Keane or Holgate (Potential is there albeit) as one of our first choices. Hindsight again.

Mate - We have seen the same over 3 different managers ( 2 of which are having success at international level ) players need to be held accountable. 

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3 hours ago, Btay said:

We have missed the depth he could have offered. Mina didn’t have a complete season due to injury so there wasn’t a real chance for him to cement himself in the team. In my opinion - we saw the very best of Micheal Keane last year, this year we are seeing more of what we’ve seen from him. If we had Zouma & Keane starting with Mina and Holgate waiting then we could have dropped Keane for Mina and had Zouma/Mina. I don’t know how this concept is lost on you. We were never going to be a top 6 team with Keane or Holgate (Potential is there albeit) as one of our first choices. Hindsight again.

Mate - We have seen the same over 3 different managers ( 2 of which are having success at international level ) players need to be held accountable. 

We had that option last year, the joke of a manager chose not to. 

You said we miss Zouma but your main point is Michael Keane is shite (which is agree). But Keane was constant, Zouma going gave Mina a chance and Mina has played that well we've not missed Zouma. 

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1 minute ago, pete0 said:

We had that option last year, the joke of a manager chose not to. 

You said we miss Zouma but your main point is Michael Keane is shite (which is agree). But Keane was constant, Zouma going gave Mina a chance and Mina has played that well we've not missed Zouma. 

Except we don’t have Zouma to replace Keane.... 

Mina was in and out with injury. There was a period that we looked solid defensively with Keane but as I’ve stated I believe he was playing at his absolute maximum level and consistency.

 

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11 minutes ago, Btay said:

Except we don’t have Zouma to replace Keane.... 

Mina was in and out with injury. There was a period that we looked solid defensively with Keane but as I’ve stated I believe he was playing at his absolute maximum level and consistency.

 

We've got Holgate. Which is still a step up from Keane.

For part/adjustment period but he should have got more minutes once he come in. Silva didn't want to risk playing him unless he had to, and wouldn't even give Holgate a chance. 

Keane had one good game against Brighton. Other than that he was average at best. I'd have replaced him in the summer. Mind I'd not have brought him here in the first place, for me he even knows he's not good enough, man united fan yet turned them down even though he was almost guaranteed a spot and they had Mourinho at the helm. 

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11 hours ago, MikeO said:

If you think being a poorer team is a decent deal then fine, but you're talking finance rather than football and I'm more interested in the second option.

We might not be a poorer team, given we’ve seen so little of his replacement we don’t really know.

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2 minutes ago, pete0 said:

We've got Holgate. Which is still a step up from Keane.

For part/adjustment period but he should have got more minutes once he come in. Silva didn't want to risk playing him unless he had to, and wouldn't even give Holgate a chance. 

Keane had one good game against Brighton. Other than that he was average at best. I'd have replaced him in the summer. Mind I'd not have brought him here in the first place, for me he even knows he's not good enough, man united fan yet turned them down even though he was almost guaranteed a spot and they had Mourinho at the helm. 

I can’t be sure that Holgate is or definitely was a better player than Keane before this season started as I hadn’t seen enough. Agree whole hearted with the rest, had we lost Keane and kept Zouma with Holgate as back up - I genuinely feel we would be a lot higher. I also think we needed to sign a CB  in the summer regardless. 

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Zouma has massively been missed. Mina has done well but he doesn't have the recovery pace or aggressiveness of Zouma. Likewise Zouma and Keane formed a decent partnership but I can imagine Mina is a difficult person to play alongside as he is unorthodox. Holgate is nowhere near the level of Zouma. He came into the team and did OK but he has shown himself to be  below this level once more.

Gana has also been missed. Mainly because of the injuries we have sustained and the decisions of management in the midfield in my opinion, but if he was here our midfield would have a lot more of a solid look to it whether you think he is any good or not, he can get through double the work of the rest of them. He would also off the manager more flexibility as he can get from box to box, whereas if any of the others are caught out of position then its game over. If you think Madisson and Tielemans would have walked past Gana like they did with Davies (all game) and then Siggy (late on) then your in a dreamland.

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2 hours ago, MikeO said:

We could probably get him back in Jan now Chelsea's ban has been lifted, the way he's performing for them they'd likely pay us to take him.

😂 I thought he was with the assist for DCLs first. 

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