Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
dunlopp9987

A societal shift

Recommended Posts

Hi all. I figured I would start this thread and leave the Trump thread to discussing that egomaniacal dictator on Pennsylvania Avenue. 

We're now just shy of 2 weeks since Derek Chauvin and three other MPD officers brutally murdered George Floyd in the city I call home. I expected a response from the public. I didn't expect this response. 

It could just be that I have Minnesota-bias, but the current uprising feels different. It feels different than Baltimore in 2015 when Freddie Gray was murdered by the police. It feels different than Ferguson in 2014 when Michael Brown was gunned down by officer Darren Wilson. It even feels different than the outrage and riots in Los Angeles in 1992 when Rodney King was senselessly beaten by the LAPD. This feels like a tidal wave of change. 

Never before have #defundthepolice or #abolishthepolice been so prominent in our society. There were protests in every single one of the 50 States that make up this country. And that's not to mention the protests around the world, with many in the Bundesliga shining brightly in this moment. 

I might be too optimistic. How many times has there been a mass shooting in this country, and we push and push for gun control, only for those voices to fall silent a few weeks later. And now, to try and dismantle systemic racism and oppression, something that this country was founded on and continues to proudly perpetuate? Surely it's a pipe dream. 

But maybe not this time. This response is nothing that I could have imagined. I've had a few emotional breakdowns during all of this, but I'm continuing to call, to pledge, to fight. It's no longer good enough to just not be racist. We now have to activately be ANTI-RACIST. And I realize that I, a cis straight white male, have all the privilege in the world to say that. I'm educating myself every day in regards to my privilege and trying to take the steps to be a better ally. But I'm putting in the work in the hope that at some point in my lifetime, I can see the version of America that we COULD be. That we SHOULD be. 

That's all. I would love for this to be an open discussion on any and all matters relating to social justice/reform/prejudices/growth. It's the internet, so of course I expect there to be some disagreements at times, but hopefully we can discuss here with open minds and hearts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The key, I think, is that demonstrations and protests must continue indefinitely. If they don't, the president will declare victory over the "forces of evil" and nothing will change. If peaceful protests continue, they'll win more and more support as local mayors and others bring rogue police officers to trial. We can't give up at this point. The president's impotence and cowardice must be revealed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Christ knows this is a hard one to win, how to stop racism. 
Peaceful protesting maybe, rioting and looting no they just play into the hands of the racists. As Trump has shown he isn’t being pushed on the real issue of racism in a America, and what’s happening to blacks and other ethnic minorities in the country of the free. 
He’s been given the opportunity to turn the tables on the protesters, like some great general who is going to save America from the criminals who are looting and burning.

We have to control the anger it will only serve to get Trump re-elected, and that would send America right back to square one, try and remember the pen is mightier than the sword, and through education and peaceful protests, people like Trump the voice for racists in America will be beaten and the tide will turn, maybe not for this generation but the next and the next. 
I am white and have always believed I am not a racist because I don’t dislike or hate blacks and have friends who are black or Asian, yet unknowingly I was an institutionalised racist because of my media up bringing of being constantly bombarded with derogatory names for blacks in the 60s and 70s in the name of comedy, so I would repeat that believing it was funny, and not understanding that I was hurting people’s feelings and supporting racism after all it was meant to be funny wasn’t it. 
Education has since taught me that it was wrong, because I never showed any malice or hatred to any ethnic groups my kids have grown up to be completely non racists, in fact they have helped me with  my institutionalised racism, by telling me that a word I used was not racially acceptable, and I thank them for that many of us are still learning, and if that’s from the next generation then all the better, education will dilute racism taking a gun to it won’t.

If the world ever needed another Martin Luther King it’s now, the world seems more united against racism than ever and this time are more ready to listen and learn. 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Palfy said:

Christ knows this is a hard one to win, how to stop racism. 
Peaceful protesting maybe, rioting and looting no they just play into the hands of the racists. As Trump has shown he isn’t being pushed on the real issue of racism in a America, and what’s happening to blacks and other ethnic minorities in the country of the free. 
He’s been given the opportunity to turn the tables on the protesters, like some great general who is going to save America from the criminals who are looting and burning.

We have to control the anger it will only serve to get Trump re-elected, and that would send America right back to square one, try and remember the pen is mightier than the sword, and through education and peaceful protests, people like Trump the voice for racists in America will be beaten and the tide will turn, maybe not for this generation but the next and the next. 
I am white and have always believed I am not a racist because I don’t dislike or hate blacks and have friends who are black or Asian, yet unknowingly I was an institutionalised racist because of my media up bringing of being constantly bombarded with derogatory names for blacks in the 60s and 70s in the name of comedy, so I would repeat that believing it was funny, and not understanding that I was hurting people’s feelings and supporting racism after all it was meant to be funny wasn’t it. 
Education has since taught me that it was wrong, because I never showed any malice or hatred to any ethnic groups my kids have grown up to be completely non racists, in fact they have helped me with  my institutionalised racism, by telling me that a word I used was not racially acceptable, and I thank them for that many of us are still learning, and if that’s from the next generation then all the better, education will dilute racism taking a gun to it won’t.

If the world ever needed another Martin Luther King it’s now, the world seems more united against racism than ever and this time are more ready to listen and learn. 
 

Thanks for this, Palf. Though I do agree that having a MLK in this time would be beneficial, let's not forget that he also said "a riot is the language of the unheard." He was a proponent of peaceful protest, but he also understood the reason behind rioting. I understand why many on the left would want these protests to remain peaceful, as not to sway public opinion against them. But how many peaceful protests do we need to participate in before there is real change? Eventually there comes a time when a more drastic measure must be taken in order to show that we're not backing down this time. 

All that said, of course I support peaceful protests and believe that is the way forward. Steve has a great point in that the only way we might see change is if these protests continue. I'm certainly not trying to use covid as advantageous, but the fact that the majority of the country is still shut down lends itself to continued protest. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the fact that the protests have gone global is telling, been chatting with relatives in Canada and Australia over the last few days and it's happening there as well as all over Europe (although probably not eastern Europe). This was in Bristol not far from me but I fully support it, even if social distancing went out of the window...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52954305

Strange being of Palf's generation and being brought up in Guildford, which is an affluent town around thirty miles from London you never saw a black face, not a single kid in probably 2,500 I went to school with was black. When I was a kid we had a black pet rabbit which we called "Sambo" after the character in Little Back Sambo without any thought that it might be offensive to anyone, I read Ten Little Niggers by Agatha Christie (since re-titled Ten Little Indians). I was lucky in my "education" in that when I was probably 12/13 my uncle and aunt adopted two babies of colour, one with African heritage and one Indian and we absolutely loved them from minute one, still get on like a house on fire whenever we meet.

Then a friend of ours who was a couple of years older than me (in my brothers year) got a job in London and moved into a flat in Brixton and we'd visit him often. He was a real character who nobody could dislike and we used to visit every pub in the area, often we'd be the only white faces in there but we were never singled out as different by anyone.

So I think I was lucky in how my views on race were formed at quite a young age, how could I discriminate against my lovely cousins Danny and Kabita for a start?

Hope and pray you're right @dunlopp9987 and that this is the start of real change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having lived in London for 15 years and worked there for nearly 20, I have learnt that racism is such a complicated evil. There is much less overt racism, but there is systemic racism in all facets of life.

People of colour tend to live in over crowded social housing, have less chance of going to University and getting good jobs. 

I think the death of George Floyd is the tipping point, I hope and prey the protests continue and evolve into real Policy changes that looks at things like social housing, job opportunities and the criminal justice system, as well as gang culture and drug use.

If we had a policy that companies, have to short list at least 1 person of colour for each job, universities must have a certain % of people of colour as students and the same for MP's and local councillors. Companies, institutions and Government must reflect the society they operate in.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lots of protests in the UK over the weekend, some peaceful and some not so peaceful. 
My local town the protests went off peacefully, with an attempt to social distance, unlike London and Bristol it didn’t make the news, because the media seem more fixed on the violence than why people are protesting. 
Anyway the Police in Swindon did contact the local paper to make a statement, thanking all who attend the protest for keeping it peaceful, and that for me deserves a mention on national news, but instead we just get images of Police and Horses being attacked in London and being attributed to the BLM protesters, when in reality it was mostly white activists who turn up at nearly all protests with the sole aim to cause carnage and assault, particularly against the Police. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Palfy said:

Lots of protests in the UK over the weekend, some peaceful and some not so peaceful. 
My local town the protests went off peacefully, with an attempt to social distance, unlike London and Bristol it didn’t make the news, because the media seem more fixed on the violence than why people are protesting. 
Anyway the Police in Swindon did contact the local paper to make a statement, thanking all who attend the protest for keeping it peaceful, and that for me deserves a mention on national news, but instead we just get images of Police and Horses being attacked in London and being attributed to the BLM protesters, when in reality it was mostly white activists who turn up at nearly all protests with the sole aim to cause carnage and assault, particularly against the Police. 

In London the make up of the protesters was mixed, many people from many different communities, it was great to see. The vast, vast majority were peaceful and there to express their anger for what has happend,  determination for change, and solidarity with people of colour. From what I know it was fine, very relaxed and their was no hostility to Police or tensions.

There were some trouble makers who were intent on causing trouble, who tried to provoke Police and unleashed a torrent of missiles, but they were successfully kettled. They were a mix of people but a tiny fraction of those that took part in the peaceful demonstrations.

My colleagues and I have nothing but support and empathy for the demonstrations and their aims.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, London Blue said:

In London the make up of the protesters was mixed, many people from many different communities, it was great to see. The vast, vast majority were peaceful and there to express their anger for what has happend,  determination for change, and solidarity with people of colour. From what I know it was fine, very relaxed and their was no hostility to Police or tensions.

There were some trouble makers who were intent on causing trouble, who tried to provoke Police and unleashed a torrent of missiles, but they were successfully kettled. They were a mix of people but a tiny fraction of those that took part in the peaceful demonstrations.

My colleagues and I have nothing but support and empathy for the demonstrations and their aims.    

Great to hear LB, shame Priti Patel and Johnson follow the Mail/Express narrative rather than talking to those that were actually present. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Great to hear LB, shame Priti Patel and Johnson follow the Mail/Express narrative rather than talking to those that were actually present. 

Mike, they know exactly what really happened. They just don’t care because it doesn’t match with their agenda. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Great to hear LB, shame Priti Patel and Johnson follow the Mail/Express narrative rather than talking to those that were actually present. 

 

20 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Mike, they know exactly what really happened. They just don’t care because it doesn’t match with their agenda. 

Lets just say most of us have less faith in Ms Patel than we did in Ms May, and thats saying something! Would much rather of had Yvette Cooper best home secretary we never had!!

Borris is a clown, he was as mayor of London and is now, he just plays to his fan club.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, London Blue said:

In London the make up of the protesters was mixed, many people from many different communities, it was great to see. The vast, vast majority were peaceful and there to express their anger for what has happend,  determination for change, and solidarity with people of colour. From what I know it was fine, very relaxed and their was no hostility to Police or tensions.

There were some trouble makers who were intent on causing trouble, who tried to provoke Police and unleashed a torrent of missiles, but they were successfully kettled. They were a mix of people but a tiny fraction of those that took part in the peaceful demonstrations.

My colleagues and I have nothing but support and empathy for the demonstrations and their aims.    

I didn’t realise you were a Police Officer in the met, being that you are as close as anyone on here to what’s happening in your service, can you explain why stop and search on Blacks is so high in comparison to whites, yet the black population is by far the minority of the population. 
Would or would you not agree that the Police service in this country as in America, is one of the biggest problems with racism in this country. 
A majority of blacks feel racially abused by the Police, due to the treatment they receive, they feel singled out by the Police, in a way that doesn’t happen to whites, do you see that yourself in the Met.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’d be nice if people were just referred to as people. Language is such a powerful tool and the use of it, on both “sides”, is highly disruptive and helped to continue make the divide wider. 
 

also don’t agree with disbanding the police in the slightest. If anything it needs more investment so that more training and education for situations can be given, time allowed to monitor bad/dangerous cops, allowing for shorter shifts so that the police aren’t constantly overworked to snapping point...

I await the inevitable “white male privilege” bullshit accusations 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Palfy said:

I didn’t realise you were a Police Officer in the met, being that you are as close as anyone on here to what’s happening in your service, can you explain why stop and search on Blacks is so high in comparison to whites, yet the black population is by far the minority of the population. 
Would or would you not agree that the Police service in this country as in America, is one of the biggest problems with racism in this country. 
A majority of blacks feel racially abused by the Police, due to the treatment they receive, they feel singled out by the Police, in a way that doesn’t happen to whites, do you see that yourself in the Met.  

I will do mate, that's a long detailed answer that deserves time to do it properly so I'll respond tonight after work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Palfy said:

It could be my device mate, on my iPhone at the moment. 

I think the channel releases videos to regions at certain times. I’ve had that issue before too

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Video not available in this country. 

Had the same issue but using a VPN got round it. Simplest way is to use Opera browser which has a VPN built in, you just have to enable it...

 

Capture.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

not trying to be a pessimist but i don't think it will stick.  sadly this era/generation of Social Justice Warriors will simply move onto the next thing in a week or 2.  There are still mass shootings all the time, people got up in arms (rightly so) and then forgot it once the next big event occurred.  COVID could pick back up, or something else could happen (the collapse of our economy), and it will be forgotten. i really hope it doesn't, and i hope it sticks.  I'd love to see some positive change. i don't think the republicans want to see any change, i know trump doesn't, so i think the deck is already stacked in white supremacists favor sadly.  I would love to see the police defunded, i have never had a positive experience with the police (i have been to jail before FYI), and i see them as a bunch of power abusers.  to get a job as a police officer in this country you need a high school education.  that's it.  you're competing with people who are applying at mcdonald's (no offense to mcd's employees).  why?  no one wants to do the job.  in new orleans where i used to live they had to progressively lower the requirements to get the job because no one wanted to do the work.  that's how low people thought of police (granted NOLA police are super corrupt).  so the people who end up with the gig are people who want to abuse the power they are given (aka school bully's) or be corrupt and try and make some serious cash (working with the drug lords, etc).  

 

i'd like to see low level drugs de-criminalized, speeding tickets/traffic cops (not highway patrol, just local) outlawed, and have the few cops that are needed do the real work.  like homicide detectives and investigations and domestic abuse.  there's no need for low level BS that unproportionately affects the minority communities. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, London Blue said:

Ok, London is a massively diverse city, one of the most diverse in the world, and this is the way I like it, I love the fact that London is such a diverse place, I have learnt so much and made so many friends from different communities. According to the last census, in London 55% of the population is described as Black Minority Ethnic, in Inner London that rises to over 60%. Now not all of that 60% is Black, but they do make up the largest group.  So London is a very mixed city, you can see the data here: http://sprc.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/BME-communities-statistical-profile1.pdf  

Having said that in the MET  if you are Black you are 2.5 x more likely to be stopped and searched by Police than anyone else and almost 5 x more likely than a White person. The data is here. https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-justice-and-the-law/policing/stop-and-search/latest

I would add that around a third of the time Police in the MET conduct a Stop and Search they find an illegal item on them, which is a pretty good hit rate. 

So why are so many Black people stopped and searched? That is a question that has perplexed society since Stop and Search, and it is a complex question and I don't pretend to have all the answers.  In my personal opinion, and it is just my personal opinion based on my experiences, a part of it is that in London People of Colour, especially Black people are far more likely to live in Social Housing, live in overcrowded accommodation and generally face discrimination in all facets of life http://www.irr.org.uk/research/statistics/poverty/. This means that kids are more likely to be outside socialising in the estates and streets, where people who see groups of Black young men around think they are in a gang or drug dealers and call Police who have a duty to investigate which can lead to a Stop and Search. 

I remember going to a call where a member of the public said that 20 Black kids were fighting with bats in the street, we turned up and it was 20 Black kids playing cricket!! Needless to say we asked them if they were ok which they said they were and we left them to continue their game.

Secondly that due to higher unemployment rates and deprivation, among People of Colour, especially Black people, which can lead to young People of Colour being targeted by criminal gangs to get them to join. 

I don't know what the other factors are, I can tell you that in almost 20 years of policing I have never been told to go out and search Black or Asian people because they are Black or Asian, I have never heard any officer say "Lets search them because they are Black / Asian etc"  and I would strongly challenge anyone who did. I have worked in Gangs Units, CID, Response Team's and not once I have been told to arrest, or target someone based on their ethnicity, race, or religion.

In a word No, but I cannot speak for American Police as I have no knowledge of them outside what I read in the media and see on TV. 

I joined the MET 20 years ago, just after the Stephen Laurence inquiry and the MET was rightly called institutionally racist. I did 17 weeks training at Hendon, and the first 2 weeks were devoted to racial / cultural / religious awareness which is so important. Anyone who had a racist attitude was kicked out. We are constantly reminded that racism is not acceptable and given regular training on diversity. We treat any crime or incident as racist if anyone not just the victim, believes it is racist, that could be a witness, a passer by or a Police Officer. When it is called a racist incident then extra measures are put in place to support the victim. As Police officers we abhor racists and racism. Some of the most painful shifts I have done have been dealing with right wing extremists and racists. As Police Officers we have a duty to challenge racism wherever we find it on or off duty.

Ever since body worn video was brought in for officers to ware the number of complaints about Police have fallen dramatically, in the MET I think its something like 80% drop but don't quote me, this article gives context. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37502136

Its not just body worn video, Police vans, custody suites are all CCTV'd up. 

If there were droves of racist officers out there then with everyone having video phones and the rise in people recording and posting videos on line then the internet would be awash with footage of officers being racist. But it is not, because thankfully racist officers are a rare breed and hopefully dying out altogether. That's not to say there are not racist officers as with 130000 there are bound to be some, but they are a tiny minority.  Its also not to say that there are rude and discourteous officers out there because there are unfortunately but again a minority. 

We as Police Officers do not get to decide if someone is charged with an offence, that is down to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) what we do is arrest, and or interview and gather evidence for the CPS before a charging decision is made. We rarely see the CPS in person, it is normally done electronically or over the phone.  

I cant say why Black people and other people of colour feel singled out, they are not by me or the officers I have worked with, but I don't doubt they think they feel they are. I think building trust is they key, having members of the community come out on patrol with us, work with us in tackling issues would be a great way in my opinion to help build that trust. If people can see how we work then they can understand how we work and that it is not racist. I recommend watching the BBC series  "The MET Policing London", it is a no nonsense documentary.

 

Anyway I hope this answers your questions.

 

Thanks for that London, it is more real when you hear it from someone who is living it, all to often as many things in life reported by the media you get a version that they want you to hear. 
Keep the good work up mate, with more people like yourself out there all communities should feel safe, in the knowledge that the Police are there to care and protect everyone. 
And of course you will get bad apples in every walk of life, who by there actions can undo many years of hard work, but it’s up to all the rest of us not to turn a blind eye, but to speak out and report racism and not be afraid of the bullies who grow in that environment. 
I know and understand that in some professions there is an unwritten code of conduct amongst itself, that you look after each other which is great for the right reasons, but when a feeling of them and us ensues the rotten ones become protected by the umbrella of looking out for each other, I hope you understand what I’m trying to convey here, but do you think that more should be done to get rid of the bad, who are giving the majority of good officers a hard time, and if that was to be openly seen could it then give the black and ethnic communities, who for reasons that they feel are prevalent to themselves, a feeling of trust towards the Police instead of distrust which many feel now. 
Your job must be so hard to do, when you know the people you are trying to serve do not trust you, that’s why there needs to be change, because without change and acceptance we just carry on repeating the same mistakes, and if you can gain the trust of these communities the prejudices will change. 
Thanks again mate and be safe. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just want to add that we are not a bunch of chisel jawed heroes patrolling the streets, we are humans, and like anyone else we have bad days, we make bad decisions, wrong decisions and we make mistakes.

Many decisions, especially those where we have to use force are split second decisions, where we act based on our perceptions of the situation, and our belief that someone poses a threat to us or the public. We have to justify our actions and live with the consequences of the decisions we make. 

We don't always get them right, but we are trying to do the right thing. That's why cameras are so important as they give context to what we do. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, London Blue said:

This happened in London today, now its on social media I can post it, wish I could say its an isolated incident, but I cant.

Both officers are ok thank God.

 

Idiots.  Behaviour like that will lose them the support of the general public. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, holystove said:

Idiots.  Behaviour like that will lose them the support of the general public. 

Completely undermines genuine effort for reform. 
 

Watched it again and it’s just making me wonder whether Thanos had the right idea with everything going on these last few years. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really am not sure how to voice my opinion on this, but here goes. Some thoughts I had to improve things:

1) I hate the media putting a colour/ethnicity in-front of a persons name in reports. Colour/ethnicity should only be used if a) it’s a description of a person in a crime (so not for the public eye) or b) that person asks for the description. Can we not just describe people as people? I know it can be used to raise awareness but it’s also dangerous. Same goes for sex and gender. So use it when it’s wanted and necessary rather than everywhere. 
2) stop using blanket statements. “The police” or “the whatever” is lazy. Some. Many. A few. Be accurate in your description.
3) this one will really piss some off; stop hiding history. If there’s a statue etc. of a cunt, don’t remove it. Put a massive plaque with an arrow pointing to the cunt and explain why the person is a cunt. Educate people. I understand that it can be painful to see, but educate rather than eliminate otherwise the cycle will continue. 
4) again, gonna piss people off; If there’s a film or book that uses language of its time and is now considered offensive, leave it alone and add explanations to educate why it’s not acceptable. Don’t redefine words, create new words that are accurate. 
I apologise to those this offends. That’s not my goal. I’m just venting frustration and I’m happy to be debated and educated because it’ll help me understand better. But we need to face things even when it’s difficult, otherwise we ignore the many problems this world (not a generalisation) faces. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Matt said:

I really am not sure how to voice my opinion on this, but here goes. Some thoughts I had to improve things:

1) I hate the media putting a colour/ethnicity in-front of a persons name in reports. Colour/ethnicity should only be used if a) it’s a description of a person in a crime (so not for the public eye) or b) that person asks for the description. Can we not just describe people as people? I know it can be used to raise awareness but it’s also dangerous. Same goes for sex and gender. So use it when it’s wanted and necessary rather than everywhere. 
2) stop using blanket statements. “The police” or “the whatever” is lazy. Some. Many. A few. Be accurate in your description.
3) this one will really piss some off; stop hiding history. If there’s a statue etc. of a cunt, don’t remove it. Put a massive plaque with an arrow pointing to the cunt and explain why the person is a cunt. Educate people. I understand that it can be painful to see, but educate rather than eliminate otherwise the cycle will continue. 
4) again, gonna piss people off; If there’s a film or book that uses language of its time and is now considered offensive, leave it alone and add explanations to educate why it’s not acceptable. Don’t redefine words, create new words that are accurate. 
I apologise to those this offends. That’s not my goal. I’m just venting frustration and I’m happy to be debated and educated because it’ll help me understand better. But we need to face things even when it’s difficult, otherwise we ignore the many problems this world (not a generalisation) faces. 

Your right never hide the past let it be seen as a reminder to future generations, I went to Auschwitz many years ago it was one of the most harrowing and emotional things I have done, but I’ve grown from the experience, you honestly can’t believe what one human is capable of doing to another until you go there it makes cry remembering it to this day. 
There was a plaque there that basically said never forget the past for fear it will repeat itself, that’s why it was pretty much kept in tact as a reminder to future generations  to not repeat history.

 I think we are in real danger of hiding or forgetting the atrocities of slavery and racism by destroying the monuments that remind us of the past mistakes, so we don’t do the same things again. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Your right never hide the past let it be seen as a reminder to future generations, I went to Auschwitz many years ago it was one of the most harrowing and emotional things I have done, but I’ve grown from the experience, you honestly can’t believe what one human is capable of doing to another until you go there it makes cry remembering it to this day. 
There was a plaque there that basically said never forget the past for fear it will repeat itself, that’s why it was pretty much kept in tact as a reminder to future generations  to not repeat history.

 I think we are in real danger of hiding or forgetting the atrocities of slavery and racism by destroying the monuments that remind us of the past mistakes, so we don’t do the same things again. 

Something I've always wanted to experience but wife not keen due to her families involvement in the holocaust, even though being adopted she's not strictly speaking Jewish she obviously has strong feelings. One of our daughters went a few years back and was very emotional about it as I'm sure everyone who visits is

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MikeO said:

Something I've always wanted to experience but wife not keen due to her families involvement in the holocaust, even though being adopted she's not strictly speaking Jewish she obviously has strong feelings. One of our daughters went a few years back and was very emotional about it as I'm sure everyone who visits is

It’s something you’ve got to do, Mike. I’ve been and it is an unforgettable experience. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Matt said:

I really am not sure how to voice my opinion on this, but here goes. Some thoughts I had to improve things:

1) I hate the media putting a colour/ethnicity in-front of a persons name in reports. Colour/ethnicity should only be used if a) it’s a description of a person in a crime (so not for the public eye) or b) that person asks for the description. Can we not just describe people as people? I know it can be used to raise awareness but it’s also dangerous. Same goes for sex and gender. So use it when it’s wanted and necessary rather than everywhere. 
2) stop using blanket statements. “The police” or “the whatever” is lazy. Some. Many. A few. Be accurate in your description.
3) this one will really piss some off; stop hiding history. If there’s a statue etc. of a cunt, don’t remove it. Put a massive plaque with an arrow pointing to the cunt and explain why the person is a cunt. Educate people. I understand that it can be painful to see, but educate rather than eliminate otherwise the cycle will continue. 
4) again, gonna piss people off; If there’s a film or book that uses language of its time and is now considered offensive, leave it alone and add explanations to educate why it’s not acceptable. Don’t redefine words, create new words that are accurate. 
I apologise to those this offends. That’s not my goal. I’m just venting frustration and I’m happy to be debated and educated because it’ll help me understand better. But we need to face things even when it’s difficult, otherwise we ignore the many problems this world (not a generalisation) faces. 

Considering episodes of TV shows are being taken away left, right, and centre (with more being requested) I don't think you'll see any of this. Sadly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Considering episodes of TV shows are being taken away left, right, and centre (with more being requested) I don't think you'll see any of this. Sadly.

The next step to making 1984 a reality

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...