GoldfishMemory Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 i've never been a big moyes fan, he gets the tactics wrong quite often, he has us playin very unattractive and fairly unsuccessful a lot of the time... and he is too loyal to players although this is starting to fade a little and goldy i really don't see the chelsea and leeds thing league winners in the past couple of years. Chelsea Arsenal Manure Blackburn Chelse bought the league as did Blackburn - The Chelsea method Leeds tried to and got relegated - The Leeds method Manure & Arsenal spent years building a solid structure around the club and bringing in the right manager - The Everton method. Its a hypothosis but when you look at our situation we are slowly stabalising the club and building a decent foundation. Moyes proberbly isnt the man but through his work we are making it possible for a manager & chairman with class to come in and have something to work with rather than a complete desaster zone to struggle against. My point being without the big ruskie backer the best we can hope for is big bill to bring in a man with £100mill meaning if we spend it he will want instant results to get it back and we could be the next Leeds. I'm happy to let Moyes carry on his work for a few more years in the mean time BK should be scouring Europe for the next Arsene Wenger. If Moyes comes good then he does and if not there is a plan b!! This is a general reply Craccer and not directly aimed at you I am reading through all your opinions and the glaring thing that stands out form the doubters is that nobody has a plan of who could do better and where the money is comming from! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fozzie Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 There is still money flowing into football Fish,look at villa. The biggest problem is the fat twat who runs the club,he wont let go of it,i know he's a fan blah,blah i'm a fan and have little money to spare a bit like him. Going back to Fergie its an open secret he would have been sacked if he hadnt have won the fa cup back in 1990,he'd had the bedding in period and all looked doomed at the time,but he won that and signed a frenchman and never really looked back,they have always backed him with cash,without question and given his time span in charge he's signed a lot more good players than duckeggs,but he's a dying breed. He,wenger are in all honesty the last of the 10 year plus managers we wont see thier like again. And as to who could do better,well thats a moot point,we should have gone for o'niell the best manager outside the top four Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bafana Blue Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Bottom line is that outside of Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal the premier league is very average and a team could just as easily be fighting relegation as pushing for a top 6 finish. There are a number of clubs who over the past few seasons have experienced these contrasting seasons in recent years. Along with West Ham, Charlton, Blackburn, Newcastle etc we have been one such team. The point is that with the right sort of leadership in the boardroom and in the Managerial Hot Seat we could easily become a regular Top 6 team. The reason we are not progressing is because Moyes is unfortunately an average manager. At the time he got the job he was the ideal person to put some passion and commitment back into our team and as a result things improved. However for long term improvements we need more and Moyes is not the man to do this. Tactically he is extremely poor and falls well short of most of the managers in the EPL. On a number of occassions this season he ahs thrown on a 3rd striker with no real plan on how it will help force an equaliser. Shifting a slow, cumbersome BT outwide is not exactly a winning formula!! His other shortcoming is his loyalty to certain players, I can't believe Yobo signed a new contract after the amount of times Weir and Stubbs were picked ahead of him. The fact that they are both still at the club, along with Pistone, is a direct result of Moyes' failure in the transfer market which is my next problem. For all the negative talk about the BK we have not been shy to waste funds in the transfer market. BT, Davies, Teflon were a combined waste of 15 million! Not to mention the loss we took on the Kroldrup deal. As for this seasons signings I agree that AJ and Lescott are good premiership players but I still feel we have overpaid for both of them. With some better planning we could have bought similar quality palyers for far less and had funds to improve the squad in other areas. In the off-season I posted on here that we should go after Benni McCarthy as I rate him on par, if not better than AJ. To date their records are very similar this season and Benni only cost 2.5 million. And if Moyes had kept McBride we would have a better strike force that we have now, AJ and BT, for a fraction of the cost. When you add in the 1.5 million wasted on McFadden who is utterley useless it's not suprising we are struggling for goals. Or perhaps it has more to do with the pathetic performances of Davies and Non-performances of VDM another waste of 6.5 million. Bottom line is Moyes has not been very successful in the transfer market and tactically he is below average. For me he is the type of manager that won't get you relegated but he will never develop a team that plays high quality football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Bafana Blue...............thats a good post mate and you have got plenty of valid points. BUT...... No better manager than DM would come to a club that has no money, and will never have any while BK is holding the Reigns. I agree with you on most points and i'm of the opinion that tactics have been his main Downfall, ive lost count of how many points we have lost through late, even injury time goals because to close down a game he brings ponderous forwards on, instead of players who can defend a lead. THE 3 DRAWS WE'VE HAD AT HOME SHOULD HAVE BEEN EASY WINS, those 6 points HE lost, could have had us in 3rd place, and we would not be moaning now about the recent Defeats. But i think he is learning all the time, and he's still the best of those around at the mo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Bafana- good post, but i do have a few points. you dont think we have progressed since Moyes came in? open your eyes mate. how long have you been watching the Blues? Moyes has had some transfer stinkers, but i dont see Davies as being one of them just yet. when hes played this season he has always put a good shift in. its got scapegoat writen all over it! Did you think we over payed for AJ after the derby? or just now while hes not scoring? and if you think we over payed for Lescott then your either blind as a fuckin mouse or you have never ever watch a game of football in your life! sorry if i sound a little agressive, but that lescott comment pissed me off so much i would quite like to bite off your eye brow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldfishMemory Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Bafana- good post, but i do have a few points. you dont think we have progressed since Moyes came in? open your eyes mate. how long have you been watching the Blues? Moyes has had some transfer stinkers, but i dont see Davies as being one of them just yet. when hes played this season he has always put a good shift in. its got scapegoat writen all over it! Did you think we over payed for AJ after the derby? or just now while hes not scoring? and if you think we over payed for Lescott then your either blind as a fuckin mouse or you have never ever watch a game of football in your life! sorry if i sound a little agressive, but that lescott comment pissed me off so much i would quite like to bite off your eye brow! Bit full on mate but the Lescott thing pissed me off too IMO he's been better than most CB's in the league this season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 whats an eye brow between friend? he is one of the best signings we've had in a long long time IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 (edited) Ive got to agree with Goldy and Stevo, Lescott has been magnificant and I would say we under-payed for him. Plus Moyes got the initial fee brought down. I wouldnt even say we over-payed for AJ, if other clubs are prepared to pay that much and we want him we have to pay that much, its just matching his value and keeping up with the times Edited November 17, 2006 by Romey 1878 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fozzie Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Bottom line is that outside of Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal the premier league is very average Now that is a good point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willo Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 (edited) MY word this is a hot topic !!!!!!! I stand by the view that the club is moving forward slowly but surely and that DM is doing a good job with the limited resources BK deals out from time to time . I like to look at how Charlton have performed this season as a measure of how all the Moyes knockers would react if he were to resign / be sacked because people believe we are not progressing . Due to Charlton's recent success under Alan Curbishley ( promotion and then stability in the premiership ) the fans started to target un-realistic goals for a club of their stature i.e European qualification every year or even dared to think about CL qualification . By Curbishleys own admission the fans un-realistic expectations made up his own mind to walk away from the club and head for pastures new but if you ask those same Charlton fans today wether they would be happy with mid table obscurty again or staring down the barrell of the championship i think we can all guess what they would choose . Whilst we are a club of much greater stature and history than Charlton we can't expect the club to turn a corner overnight and be in the top 4 year after year just because we achieved it once before . Years of mis-management at the highest level , the Johnson era before and now the BK one , have set the club back years and it will take time to right the wrongs of the past . People say the financial situation is improving but would it even be looking half as rosy as it is now had it not be for the fact we un-earthed a rare gem in shrek ( who was sold at well below market value by bungling Bill ) . Unless you have a millionaire benefactor these days you cannot expevt success overnight , looking at Leeds even with lots of money you cannot be guarenteed succes full stop . We are not gonna get a millionaire benefactor whilst BK is in charge because he is unwilling to step aside and no-one wants to invest unless he does step aside . SO we have to be patient and stay behind DM because whislt things i believe are not right behind the scenes i firmly believe that on the pitch things are improving and heading in the right direction . SO lets pack out Goodison tomorrow afternoon and sing our hearts out for the boys in Blue , anyone leaving the ground with a voice should be shot on site . NSNO Edited November 17, 2006 by Willo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fozzie Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 Good post Willo, In fairness the board mismanagment has gone on for at least 25 years,long before Moores died in fact,but the club isnt generating any new money,just recycling whats already there..(i.e us). The club needs a massive injection of new cash to go forward and as Willo rightly points out grubby Billy wont let his toy go(quite where we'd have been without shreks (low) transfer fee is frightening),and that bad management which ever way you say it. I keep hearing 5 year plans beign banded about,i say bollocks it would take 5 years with "new" money but at this rate we're going to be in this torpid state for a long time to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
java2001e Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 I keep hearing 5 year plans beign banded about,i say bollocks it would take 5 years with "new" money but at this rate we're going to be in this torpid state for a long time to come. we have certainly NOT been in a torpid state for the last 3 seasons. since walter smith was replaced by moyes we are no longer relegation fodder, which we ALWAYS were before moyes arrived. yes, the board has been divided and rudderless for a long time, but there have been signs of improvement and a new sense of determination to get things done, and done properly. we have consolidated ourselves as a good, solid mid-table team, with a real chance of being a top six side and getting regular european opportunities. Everton are now firmly esconced in the moyes era and complaining about past mistakes contributes nothing to developing the clubs future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fozzie Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 we have certainly NOT been in a torpid state for the last 3 seasons. since walter smith was replaced by moyes we are no longer relegation fodder, which we ALWAYS were before moyes arrived. yes, the board has been divided and rudderless for a long time, but there have been signs of improvement and a new sense of determination to get things done, and done properly. we have consolidated ourselves as a good, solid mid-table team, with a real chance of being a top six side and getting regular european opportunities. Everton are now firmly esconced in the moyes era and complaining about past mistakes contributes nothing to developing the clubs future. Maybr your happy by seeing and paying a lot of good money to see shite served up each week. Maybe a top 6 side with regular euro chances..not for a long time,i look at this thread as a possitive discussion towards not only Moyes's future at the club,but the club as a whole,we are simply a very avaerage mid table side,who every now and again will get a pop at the euro places when the other teams fall off the wagon. I see little to no new investment other than the shrek money in the last 3 years..but of course the old chestnut about Moyes spending so much on AJ and lescott,we paid up front for both of them about 6 mill,the rest of the fees are of course tied to apperances,so in other words we spent no more than we normally spend,so when all is said and done there is no new money in the club and we are in a torpid state money wise,to say other wise is sheer folly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldfishMemory Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Maybr your happy by seeing and paying a lot of good money to see shite served up each week. Maybe a top 6 side with regular euro chances..not for a long time,i look at this thread as a possitive discussion towards not only Moyes's future at the club,but the club as a whole,we are simply a very avaerage mid table side,who every now and again will get a pop at the euro places when the other teams fall off the wagon. I see little to no new investment other than the shrek money in the last 3 years..but of course the old chestnut about Moyes spending so much on AJ and lescott,we paid up front for both of them about 6 mill,the rest of the fees are of course tied to apperances,so in other words we spent no more than we normally spend,so when all is said and done there is no new money in the club and we are in a torpid state money wise,to say other wise is sheer folly. Everybody who thinks about the situation accepts that it will take a long time to put right the wrongs which have been done behind the scenes since the 80's. So after years of getting worse and the fans begging for at leaset some stabilisation we have got it but now there is a small section of our support getting restless. This is mostly the older generation who have watched success and are hungry to see it again but realistically I think this group is demanding success for selfish reasons and cannot honestly say they are considering the best path for the club. We are being mis managed and our chaiman is extreamly blinkered along with the managers tactical questionability but is it that bad? The facts are the board room has been stabalised, the chairman will never do anything to harm / risk the club and the manager has improved the team. Is there room for improvement? Most definatly. However we have taken the first steps along a path we all readily admit is a long and winding one. I want people to relax we were diabolical for years but new we are getting better slowly so accept the progress, demand more thats fine but ripping apart a partnership which has brought the team out of the dark times because your not happy with the speed of the progress is soft IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 (edited) Hear Hear. But whats this about the older generation. ?? Think it might be the under 30s thats getting frustrated, cos they havent seen any success at all since they were born. Us olduns know how to handle it. Edited November 20, 2006 by Licker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fozzie Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 *holds hands up at being 40* While the slow process is being done the rest of the premiership is moving along too,as i say we're standing still to get nowhere at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraccerC Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 league winners in the past couple of years. Chelsea Arsenal Manure Blackburn Chelse bought the league as did Blackburn - The Chelsea method Leeds tried to and got relegated - The Leeds method Manure & Arsenal spent years building a solid structure around the club and bringing in the right manager - The Everton method. Its a hypothosis but when you look at our situation we are slowly stabalising the club and building a decent foundation. Moyes proberbly isnt the man but through his work we are making it possible for a manager & chairman with class to come in and have something to work with rather than a complete desaster zone to struggle against. My point being without the big ruskie backer the best we can hope for is big bill to bring in a man with £100mill meaning if we spend it he will want instant results to get it back and we could be the next Leeds. I'm happy to let Moyes carry on his work for a few more years in the mean time BK should be scouring Europe for the next Arsene Wenger. If Moyes comes good then he does and if not there is a plan b!! This is a general reply Craccer and not directly aimed at you I am reading through all your opinions and the glaring thing that stands out form the doubters is that nobody has a plan of who could do better and where the money is comming from! if we could convince curbs, but i don't really know i'd just like a bit of attacking football. i cant see where the money is coming either but as for the man u and arsenal method, i don't see moyes in that category of manager, wenger and ferguson both are exceptional and got a large bit of luck. plus we have kenwright at the helm who won't budge and is an investor repellant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetrip Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 if we could convince curbs, but i don't really know i'd just like a bit of attacking football. i cant see where the money is coming either but as for the man u and arsenal method, i don't see moyes in that category of manager, wenger and ferguson both are exceptional and got a large bit of luck. plus we have kenwright at the helm who won't budge and is an investor repellant Not forgetting moyes is still one of the youngest managers in the Premiership after Boothroyd. It's not really fair to compair him to managers with 10-20 years more experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savage9640 Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 moyes is a great manager he has worked wonders with this club drag us out of the bottom clubs and got us back up there fighting with the best has people forgot the days of relagation battles needing to win games just to stay up we have come on leaps and bounds he has got good players in and is building a very good team with more money and time we will be back to gloary days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFCfanatic Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 What I keep thinking is if these "evertonians" want moyes out then who the hell would come in???? Patience is a virtue in this game unless anothe abramovich comes along. It is impossible to click your fingers and u slingshot to the other side of the table. Moyes IMO has done wonders in the short spell he's had at the club. Yes he's had a few blips but he's a young manager who is hungry and will bring success if he stays at the helm which is doubtful if he keeps getting slagged off by impatient fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 we are a long way away from the team that moyes took over, hes made good signing and bad, but unfortunately with his limited budget they all need to come off. My opinion is we stick with him, Ive seen more highs in the last four year than in the previous 6 before him, we,ve got a small squad but ts got players with a future ahead of them rather than panic short term over hill players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 There are rumours doing the rounds that Moys and AJ have had a bust up and that AJ has handed in a transfer request I cant see it being true like, its on Kipper and most people on there arent believing it either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 There are rumours doing the rounds that Moys and AJ have had a bust up and that AJ has handed in a transfer request I cant see it being true like, its on Kipper and most people on there arent believing it either those damn rumours again, you should leave them where they belong ON KIPPER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldfishMemory Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 the problem with moyes is he hasnt planned beneath the 1st team we have a few kids who 1 or 2 might make it but normaly they dont....we only have one right back and one left back thats decent...and two ageing centre backs....this is why we are in trouble now...we cant cover the injurys. I'd rather take the gamble with a small competent squad than buy a load of has beens to fill the gaps like we have done since the 90's TBH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldfishMemory Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 they dont have to be has beens.over the last four years we could have bought a few players for our second team. and still had enough money for AJ & Lescott?? Like who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldfishMemory Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 well thers 2 at preston for a start we could have had nugent for 1 million now we are looking at whally on the wing he cost 500 thou then thers doyle at reading for 500 thou there was also another player at reading who cost 1 mill whome we looked at ...lita Thats kinda like when we bought Farelly an Oster tho & working on the theory that we only had the money we spent the that would have priced us out the market for either AJ or Lescott by 3 mill. Dont get me wrong we need to build a bigger squad but our biggest strength is the team spirit and I can see why moyes is a little reluctant to bring in players who wont gel into that. It was only our spirit that got us to 4th and again it was only that which dragged us out of the first half of last season, talent and tactics are a sore point in our team at the mo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldfishMemory Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 had we bought nugent it would have saved us 5 million on the bt deal Aye, we did all (fozzie excluded) think that was gona work out tho to be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fozzie Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Aye, we did all (fozzie excluded) think that was gona work out tho to be fair. Hehe..i hate to say i told you so.. i told you so!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Hehe..i hate to say i told you so..i told you so!! you could have fooled me foz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFCfanatic Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 (edited) There's no point dwelling on the past. All of us thought BT wud be a decent signing. I just hope AJ doesnt carry on like he is. But we've got one of the best academies in the league along with villa maybe and have got quality thru there. Moyes needs to give Vic and Vaughny more of a chance than 10 mins here and there Edited December 1, 2006 by EFCfanatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.