RuffRob Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 We have now got 10 games to go this season. We are in the right half of the table and safe from relegation. We have shown some decent and not so decent results. the main think I see as the improvment this season is that we are going to finish the season with a positive goals rather than a negative goal difference. This has been a long long time coming. I always see this stat as a good indicator to where you really belong in the table. So to this end we are an improved team. So what do we do with these last 10 games this season - - first job done no fears of relegation - we are not going to get near the CL spaces I say play an adventurous 4-4-2 for the rest of the season. Say to a low confidence Beattie - right you and AJ are going to start up front together in all the remaining games with Cahill an attacking midfeilder , no matter who we play. OK we are likley to get turned over in a few games, but I would like to see a positive approach in all the remaining games. It will give a last throw of the dice to a 'what looks a very good partnership on paper' pairing of Beattie and AJ. A sort of nopressure, just get out there and enjoy the last 10 games. They will have confidence as a pairing after the last game lets build on this. I think DM will learn a lot about where the currnet team are really at, by playing positive football in all the last matches. He knows causiouse football well enough. Use thes game to push the limits a bit. I would definately be happy to possibley sacrafice the 6 or so point in the last 10 games to try this sort of experiment. Don't mind seeing the team turned over once or twice if I know we are at least trying something positive. With Fernandes now at the club - I really think Moyes needs to push the team with him in it to the limits to really see if playing big money for him in the summer will help us to the next level. Can Fernandes be the player that will allow us to more comfortabley play 4-4-2 on a regular basis? and can Beattie and AJ given a decent run of games side by side form a formidable partnership? If a definative answers to those questions can be answered in the next 10 game - I would rather see these questions answered than trying to grind out a UEFA place. And you never know buy answering these questions a UEFA place would come with it. UEFA cup is nothing to right home about - we may as well be a middle of the table team to a certain degree. We have to push to the next level were you can possibley nick a CL place should one of the top 4 slip up a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Not a bad argument at all IMO, and I reckon that if we stay clear of too many injuries then that attitude would make UEFA more likely anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiemaher85 Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 agree with what your saying here, especially about saying to beattie johhno, yiu two will play up front together NO MATTER WHO WE PLAY, think that is a very good point. We will make europe by being adventurous not overly cautious, and if we get inot europe then we should do so in a manner that measn we deserve a place, (as in playing attaking football) some good points there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny the Blue Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Good post, like the 442 idea, hopefully it will stick and we can see say 15 goals between AJ and Beatts in these ten games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 I'd play the 442 in 7 of the last 10 games though, stick to the 451 against Manure, Chelsea and Arsenal. If we get a roasting by them playing 442 it will not do the teams confidence any good at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiemaher85 Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 but we faired well against chelski earlier in the season when we played 442. i would stick 442 with whoever we play. we have more chance of a result if we actually attack these teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Do you seriously think it's a good idea to attack Arsenal full force? I can understand it against Chelsea and Manure because they've shown they struggle if teams attack them but doing it against Arsenal would not work IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiemaher85 Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 it all depends on what team they put out, but arsenal you need to attack more than the other two, if you give them time on the ball then thats when they will rip you to pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny the Blue Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Good shout but I cant see them having a problem keeping the ball from us, it'll prob be a case of them kicking it round patiently then us mauling them, basically I think the ref is in for a tough game. The result all depends on how we deal with there build up play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 No with Arsenal you play a tight game, you don't attack them 'coz that's when they'll ripp you to pieces. Pack the midfield and stick to their players like glue, take all the space away from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue4Ever Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 i wouldnt agree attacking Arsenal full on were alot better playing like the derby style against Arsenal and Man U and we might have to go at Chelsea last game with uefa cup hopes... I think its better to start with a real attacking formation against chelsea because they dont like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiemaher85 Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Good shout but I cant see them having a problem keeping the ball from us, it'll prob be a case of them kicking it round patiently then us mauling them, basically I think the ref is in for a tough game. The result all depends on how we deal with there build up play. hopefully be a good game to see how well fernades copes with a classier oponent. personally i think its a game where we havnt got much to loose, we need to attack them to at leat have a chance of a result. if 442 dont work, fine, change it at half time- but we can only live and learn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny the Blue Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 The Fernadez element will be good to watch and I agree with Mark, If we take away the supperior passing element we can have them, I think the key to the game wil be the opening stages cos if we can full on attack and nick a goal then that may deflate them and we can keep at em, alternativly if they nick a goal were in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Still have to minfull of being on our bikes, when in their half. Arsenal can counter attack with some pace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_webby Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 not that i want to see defensive play but for some reason i still dont think we have the players for 442 BT and AJ upfront i agree with giving them an extended run but the problem with it is who do we play in the midfied the only way we could i think would be to play arteta on the wing but then hes been playin so well in a more central role which would also mean dropping carsley and i would like to say again i think it is a good idea but the whole thing of who would we drop is the question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuffRob Posted March 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 not that i want to see defensive play but for some reason i still dont think we have the players for 442 BT and AJ upfront i agree with giving them an extended run but the problem with it is who do we play in the midfied the only way we could i think would be to play arteta on the wing but then hes been playin so well in a more central role which would also mean dropping carsley and i would like to say again i think it is a good idea but the whole thing of who would we drop is the question? I think it may result in Carsley losing out a little - But as I mentioned one of the questions that really needs answering in the last 10 games is - is Fernandes possibley going to be that player who could be our Roy Keane or Patrick Viera over the next few year, as its likley we are going to have to shell out the best part of £10M for him. Now if he can be tested to the limit in midfeild by Moyes. Basically is Fernandes good enough to allow Everton to play 4-4-2 on a regular basis - Increase the quality in the middle and you get away with 4 players being as effective as 5 players for the majority of the time. This does put a bit of pressure on Fernandes, but he's not a player that belongs to Everton yet, so the club have got great chance to really test the goods before splashing the cash. At £10m or so he is going to smash the club transfer record. So in my opinion for that sort of money at such a young age he has got to show that he can make a huge difference to the squad that will take Everton to the next level. We may well get beat playing 4-4-2 against Arsenal - but we will see what Fernandes can do when he has three in support in the middle rather than the 'safety net' of an extra mad in the middle. The last 10 game need to be 'scraficed' to a degree to really test the potential of Fernandes and the Beattie - AJ partnership. Two major desisions need making in the summer - do we sell Beattie (hence will need a replacment) and do we break out transfer record to bring Fernandes in. As I mentioned in the original post - worth sacrificing a few points this season to maybe bear the fruits next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldfishMemory Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 I think it may result in Carsley losing out a little - But as I mentioned one of the questions that really needs answering in the last 10 games is - is Fernandes possibley going to be that player who could be our Roy Keane or Patrick Viera over the next few year, as its likley we are going to have to shell out the best part of £10M for him. Now if he can be tested to the limit in midfeild by Moyes. Basically is Fernandes good enough to allow Everton to play 4-4-2 on a regular basis - Increase the quality in the middle and you get away with 4 players being as effective as 5 players for the majority of the time. This does put a bit of pressure on Fernandes, but he's not a player that belongs to Everton yet, so the club have got great chance to really test the goods before splashing the cash. At £10m or so he is going to smash the club transfer record. So in my opinion for that sort of money at such a young age he has got to show that he can make a huge difference to the squad that will take Everton to the next level. We may well get beat playing 4-4-2 against Arsenal - but we will see what Fernandes can do when he has three in support in the middle rather than the 'safety net' of an extra mad in the middle. The last 10 game need to be 'scraficed' to a degree to really test the potential of Fernandes and the Beattie - AJ partnership. Two major desisions need making in the summer - do we sell Beattie (hence will need a replacment) and do we break out transfer record to bring Fernandes in. As I mentioned in the original post - worth sacrificing a few points this season to maybe bear the fruits next. Spot on mate I think it's time to be brave and test Manny in the middle to see if he can be the midfield general he's made out to be, we lookd good at 442 on Saturday and our only problem with that formation in the past had been lack of bite in midfield. Test the kid and if he steps up then the summer kitty could go on him & a partner for AJ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuffRob Posted March 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 Although still 20 years old, £10m or so is too much for a club in our finacial position to pay for potential - In the last 10 games of this season - Fernandes needs to show he can do a better job than players we already have, from the first whistle next season. So needs a stern test rather than protection with a extra man in the middle. A prolonged run in the team together is aslo going to be the acid test of a BT/AJ partnership. Would not like to see BT go without giving the partnership a decent chance. If we sell him for £4M then you don't get much as replacement upfront for that sort of cash. I just think Moyes will learn a lot more if he takes this approach in the last 10 games - He will either vindicate the tactics he currently employs or he will see that the current squad possible have another dimension. I am sure most fans will take a few defeats on the chin if we see this sort of approach as a building block to next season-I know I would Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldfishMemory Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 Maybe it's the time for moyes to step out of his defensive safety zone, grow some nuts and lead us into Europe!! COYB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetrip Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 (edited) I would definately be happy to possibley sacrafice the 6 or so point in the last 10 games to try this sort of experiment. Don't mind seeing the team turned over once or twice if I know we are at least trying something positive. I have to say I'm surprised you are happy to write a UEFA cup place off in order to get Beatie his confidence back or even see a more attacking football style. The direct monetary rewards in the UEFA Cup in might not be substantial until the latter stages but is that all its about? All the games are screened around the world which raises Everton's profile, leads to better sponsorship and also the type of players we can attract. I'm sure if you asked any ambitious player looking to move to the Premiership, they would take the chance to play in Europe over a midtable team with only the league and fa cup to offer. Not only that but each Premiership place last year was worth £500,000 each and it will be a lot more this year with the huge Sky money injection. I don't think we can afford to waste any points. Kenwright has no money to invest and never has. Johnson, Lescott and Howard were bought with next years sky money. Every league place is vital to the players we can bring in over the summer. It is just not feasible to expect us to challenge for a Champions League place, we did it once with a lot of 1-0 wins and the Shite falling to pieces - I can't see that happening with their new investment. How can you expect us to compete year in year out when gap of the top 4 teams spending power, player infrastructure and facilities get further and further away from the rest of the league. Edited March 1, 2007 by Bluetrip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiemaher85 Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 i dont think peolpe are saying that we should compete for champions leagueevery year- and there not saying that we should forfit the eufa cup for the sake of beatties confidence. the point is that games against chelsea man u and arsenal we are expected to loose, so why not try soemthing different and actually play attacking football against these teams. we do have some very good players so why not. and if we are epecting to get to europe this year then surely we should try playing an attaking style and comfertably winning games, rather than trying to hold a scrapy 1-0 lead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetrip Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 (edited) i dont think peolpe are saying that we should compete for champions leagueevery year- and there not saying that we should forfit the eufa cup for the sake of beatties confidence. the point is that games against chelsea man u and arsenal we are expected to loose, so why not try soemthing different and actually play attacking football against these teams. we do have some very good players so why not. and if we are epecting to get to europe this year then surely we should try playing an attaking style and comfertably winning games, rather than trying to hold a scrapy 1-0 lead? Actually if you read the initial post which is what I was referring to, Rob was proposing the new approach for the remaining 10 games prefering midtable and trying attacking football than a UEFA place. In any case we drew against Arsenal away with 10 men and were beating Chelsea until the last couple of minutes so who's to say we can't win those games. Portsmouth is our second to last game and that could well be a six pointer. We have been playing a relatively defensive game for the majority of Moyes reign, it's his style, based around the current players we have and has seen our best results for sixteen years. Gambling on something new so close to the end of the season within reach of a UEFA place could be a complete disaster. Every league place is going to be worth up to a £million and looking how tight the league is that could be a lot of cash. Edited March 1, 2007 by Bluetrip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiemaher85 Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 fair enough, sorry just abit of a misunderstanding upon my be half. personally i think we should play more attacking for the latter part of the season because though we have, as you pointed out, played a more defensive style in the past, we have lost alot of silly points by reverting to this defensve manner, (see man city/ wigan this season) i think that we should play attacking in order to get into eufa, i think its imperitive to the future of the club that we get into europe. thought is not the champions league it is still european competion and will help us to attract a higher calibre player, and the financial rewards are high- (esp in the later stages.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 Are you really happy to risk a UEFA place when it would effectively mean we could not afford Fernandes? Im not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiemaher85 Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 i think its just as risky playing defensivley all the time. and if we play a boring defensive game is fernandes really going to be attracted to the club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuffRob Posted March 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 We have got one of the tightest defences in the Prem - only 25 goals conceeded, Chelsea, Man U and Liverpool top that stat with 19 goals conceeded, and Arsenal just ahead of us on 22 goals conceeded. So defensive wise we are right up there at this time. all this with our first choice right and left backs missing for the best part of the season. Including ourselves only 6 teams have conceeded less than 30 goals. so it not just a little better than the rest of the league but a least 20% better than the other 15 clubs in the league. We are the joint 6th top scoring team so far this season, so even playing 'defensive' football so forgetting the top 4 we are very competative on this front. So I think there is room to perhaps strech the back line a bit further in order to produce more goal scoring chances. I just think there is scope to be a little more attacking minded, given the games we have got left and the fact we have the safety net of not having to worry about relagation. I think we were all disapointed with the result of the Spurs game. I think we have the scope to be more attacking in all honesty. Just not got to be scared of losing now and again. I am sure we all would have been a lot happier after the Spurs game if we have put them under a lot more attacking pressure for the last half hour, and lost by a counter attack goal - rather than the way it happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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