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Goal Difference

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just want to say its great to see that we have such a healthy goal difference,i mean in the last few seasons when we were doing well our goal difference was still in the negative but now its looking very good....shows we are definately moving in the right direction both defensively and offensively.........now roll on europe!!!!! :D

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Hear Hear.

 

I can hardly remember the Walter Smith days anymore :D .

 

 

Dont mention the war!

 

But, it proves we are not in a false position

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howard organises the defence so well and our defence is safe as houses, then we got arteta and osman good at going forward and carsley neville or fernades good defensive midfielders then johnson and vaughanie good pace, mcfadden and achiebebe good strong attackers and beattie good in the air usually

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we already are a decent little team, other wise we wouldnt be 5th. two wingers, LB and a new striker plus fernandes and i think we can challenge for 4th.

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To be honest if you look at our goal difference this season it stacks up against any goal difference of teams finishing out side the 'top 4' any season since the Prem started.

 

by the law of averages half the teams should have a positive goal difference and half the teams should have a negative goal difference.

 

but it never worth out like this or even near this. This is another indicator to how top heavy the English Premiership is. When the top 4 usually have such a heathy positive goal difference and ANY team outside those DOES WELL to have a positive goal difference at all.

 

It is so positive for us to have such a good goals difference this season. Especially when you consider its not all down to any one man having a blinding season - take our top scorers goals away and we are still in positive goal - really a good sign if you ask me.

 

Can we get beyond 5th place - can any team get in to the top 4 - Arsenal have had a really POOR season by their standards and they are still 8 point ahead of 5th place. I imagine they will do better next year, can also see Liverpool getting stronger with the money thats come it. Given the game in hand Man U and Chelsea have they are basically 30 point better of than us, so they won't slip up that much next year.

 

Realistically getting 5th place for the forseeable future is the best an team other than the top 4 can realistically hope for.

 

We nicked 4th a couple of years ago - but that was mainly becasue Liverpool had such a poor season rather than us breaking in to the top 4.

 

Tottenham almost did it last year, but again Arsenal had a poor season (but still finished 4th)

 

To get in to the top 4 is out of our hand or any other clubs hands - The only way to do it is if one of the current top 4 has a shit season - so you get there by default.

You just have to have a good season when one of the top 4 has a shit season.

 

We are all playing our own little league outside the top 4 I am afraid, and I can only seeing that carrying on for the next 2-3 year at least - Where 5th place make you best of the rest.

 

In all honesty the way things are going thats all we or any other club can hope for.

 

The biggest problem in our league is that there are only 4 Champions League places up for grabs. Now if you could also have 5th or even 6th place also up for grabs to get in to play offs for Champions League rather than the pointless second rate UEFA cup - I would just mean that every season your Bolton's, Tottenham's, Everton's and Villa's etc could have a chance of a play-off game to get in to the CL real.

 

One of my biggest problems with football is all players want that chance to play in the CL. You Arteta's, Lennon's and Pedersoons are not going to stay at clubs who have all but no chance of CL football. They will be a squad player rather than a first team starter. That slowly make the bigger clubs bigger.

 

Got of the point a little!!!

 

Anyway, great we are moving in the right direction, being in 5th position with a great goal difference, but where do you go from there and HOW!! 5th Place this year is going to more than 10 point behind Arsanal (who have had a poor season)

 

The biggest question in English football me thinks.

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To be honest if you look at our goal difference this season it stacks up against any goal difference of teams finishing out side the 'top 4' any season since the Prem started.

 

by the law of averages half the teams should have a positive goal difference and half the teams should have a negative goal difference.

 

but it never worth out like this or even near this. This is another indicator to how top heavy the English Premiership is. When the top 4 usually have such a heathy positive goal difference and ANY team outside those DOES WELL to have a positive goal difference at all.

 

It is so positive for us to have such a good goals difference this season. Especially when you consider its not all down to any one man having a blinding season - take our top scorers goals away and we are still in positive goal - really a good sign if you ask me.

 

Can we get beyond 5th place - can any team get in to the top 4 - Arsenal have had a really POOR season by their standards and they are still 8 point ahead of 5th place. I imagine they will do better next year, can also see Liverpool getting stronger with the money thats come it. Given the game in hand Man U and Chelsea have they are basically 30 point better of than us, so they won't slip up that much next year.

 

Realistically getting 5th place for the forseeable future is the best an team other than the top 4 can realistically hope for.

 

We nicked 4th a couple of years ago - but that was mainly becasue Liverpool had such a poor season rather than us breaking in to the top 4.

 

Tottenham almost did it last year, but again Arsenal had a poor season (but still finished 4th)

 

To get in to the top 4 is out of our hand or any other clubs hands - The only way to do it is if one of the current top 4 has a shit season - so you get there by default.

You just have to have a good season when one of the top 4 has a shit season.

 

We are all playing our own little league outside the top 4 I am afraid, and I can only seeing that carrying on for the next 2-3 year at least - Where 5th place make you best of the rest.

 

In all honesty the way things are going thats all we or any other club can hope for.

 

The biggest problem in our league is that there are only 4 Champions League places up for grabs. Now if you could also have 5th or even 6th place also up for grabs to get in to play offs for Champions League rather than the pointless second rate UEFA cup - I would just mean that every season your Bolton's, Tottenham's, Everton's and Villa's etc could have a chance of a play-off game to get in to the CL real.

 

One of my biggest problems with football is all players want that chance to play in the CL. You Arteta's, Lennon's and Pedersoons are not going to stay at clubs who have all but no chance of CL football. They will be a squad player rather than a first team starter. That slowly make the bigger clubs bigger.

 

Got of the point a little!!!

 

Anyway, great we are moving in the right direction, being in 5th position with a great goal difference, but where do you go from there and HOW!! 5th Place this year is going to more than 10 point behind Arsanal (who have had a poor season)

 

The biggest question in English football me thinks.

 

All too true and the worst part is it's self perpetuating. The longer the 'Four' stay in the position they're in, qualifying for the CL season after season raking in millions, the further away the other 16 clubs drift away.Without a serious investor nothing is going to change for any of those teams, we all jostle around fighting in the middle to bottom with the hope we can go the distance for a European place. Even then there's no money in the UEFA cup, great for us the fans though it's not going to help us raise a title challenge. But there comes a point where you have just got to sit back and embrace the fact we are pretty much doing as well as we possibly could at the moment. Top of our own acheivable league, I can't wait for next season.

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Some good points there Ruff even tho it does make us feel all inferior we aren't really the 'big boys' of the prem. I would be happy if we can consolidate this position of being amongst the top 5 or 6 cos according to Kevin Nolan on Sky Sports website today he thinks Bolton will be in the Champs league in a few years (Yeah Right). The fact is tho that teams like Aston Villa and possibly City (in future) are coming into some money and they think that in a few years they will be challenging for a Champs league place. My point is that not all of these teams can break into the elite set of clubs at the top of the Premiership, so do you think that teams like Arsenal or Liverpool will may face stiffer competition in future from these types of teams, or do you think despite all these clubs with new owners proclaiming they will challenge at the top the status quo will remain? If this is the case which I personally think it will be I think it would still be an achievement if we manage to finish consistently around 5th 6th cos even with the best will in the world I can't see us breaking into the top four in the next few years. The only thing that is possible is that now Dein has left Arsenal, Wenger could go and their little empire could crumble cos without Wenger they wouldn't be half as good and they aren't as rich as Liverpool Utd or Chelsea, plus they have that big new stadium to pay for.

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How do we break into top four?......by doing what were doing.Slowly building

a team thats very hard to beat.Bringing on good young players and adding

a few more Lescotts and Cahills along the way.Hanging onto Moyes will help.

Some of those crap signings can only have made him better long term!

How many points has captain fantastic won luckypool

this season single handed.....quite a few.If they spend big and get the wrong players

next season and Gerrard misses any decent amounts of games....then there's

our 4th spot!Arsenal could just as easily blow it.As was mentioned in posts

above sure the so called top four need to slip up to help us achieve it....BUT

sure they can.Couple of seasons away from the champions league will

sort out a couple of the big spenders.

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Well it sure sorted out Leeds, didn't it? They had that stretch of making the CL 3 or 4 years in a row, and then they miss for one year, and suddenly it all goes to hell. I'm going to be very interested to see what happens in Italy with Juventus - how big of an impact spending at least two seasons (this year and next) out of the CL has on them.

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To break the top 4 we would need more investment into the squad in my opinion. The top four are getting even more money to spend. We don't need a huge takeover but enough for Moyes to add quality depth to the squad. Moyes has done a fine job in my opinion with what he has got. Sure he has had some bad buys but he has also added some quality players and is building a good squad. A litle more money into the club would be nice to make a good push for the top 4. With that being said I have been very impressed all year with our defence. Hopefully we can keep up the goal difference as the season comes to an end.

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That is the biggest problem the top 4 get bigger and bigger each year. So clubs like ours just need investment to stay where we are never mind break in to the top 4.

 

Newcastle and Spurs always seem to have good money to spend every summer. You can probabley add Villa to that list this summer, West Ham the same should they stay up.

 

Just to stay in the 'best of the rest' top 2 or 3 is going to be hard work, never mind breaking in to the top 4. Without huge investment (and I do mean huge) breaking in to the top 4 proper is a pipe dream. As I said it may be possible to nick 4th should one of the top 4 be in a 'rebuilding' season, but that mean your timing in having a really good season has to be spot on. We did it a couple of years ago - but that was amazing timing of having a freakish good season as much as anything else.

 

The biggest problem with the top 4 is that you can't join it, you have to ouse one of the teams already in it. 5 will never go in to 4, no matter now hard you try.

 

At this moment in time all 4 English places in the CL are spoken for last year, this year and probabley next year and the year after that as well. So that mean if you are a decent player and want CL football, there are only 4 clubs in the Prem that are worth signing for.

 

The top 4 clubs have the money and the attraction to bring the very best players in the world.

 

Just to highlight the mangitue of the task of becoming a 'top 4' team-

 

The last time a non top 4 team won the FA cup was 12 years ago, in 1995 when WE won it last.

 

3 of this seasons Champions League finalist are from the Prem 'Top 4' . and the 'top 4' team missing from this year semi finals was one of last years CL finalists.

 

To become a Premiership 'top 4' you realistically need to be one of the Top 6 teams in Europe. And even then 5 still doesn't go in 4.

 

To be a English 'top 4 ' team at this moment in time you realistically need to have a squad that on its day is capable of becoming the Champions of Europe - this is not an exaggeration, it's fact. So saying we need some investment to break in to the 'top 4' to bring in a few quality player is a huge under statement.

 

A sobering and sad truth I am afraid.

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ROB, I agree with what you and some others have said in this topic, but why be so down and miserable about it.

 

OK we are not recognised as one of the top four, so what, i'm sure the other 80 odd league clubs would just LOVE to be in our position, go and ask the Accrington Stanley supporters what it was like getting back into the league after 40 years in the wildernes, even though they are in the bottom league.

 

What i'm try to say is ..........

 

we are in the top league, in this country and possibly the world.

we are in the top five or six clubs in this league.

we are able to watch top flight games week in and week out.

we are in a position to entertain some foriegn teams next season

we have been in this top league for more seasons than any other team in the football leagues history.

 

Lets try and be a bit more upbeat about what we are, and not look at what we are not.

The futures bright, THE FUTURES BLUE.

COYB......Bill.

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Well said Bill! This has to be the most exciting time since ('95 cup final which was a one off and relegation scraps excluded) the eighties that us old bastards keep gabbing on about...and we still manage to complain :lol: .

 

We've lost eight league games this season, the same as Liverpool and Arsenal, we're won two, drawn two and lost two so far against the "big" four...scored six and conceded six and that would look much better were it not for the two late wonder goals conceded against Chelsea.

 

We're on the verge...and I'm loving it B) .

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Although, it may not sound like it - I am not trying to be all doom and gloom. Hell, yes we have got plenty to be happy about, more than we have had to cheer about for a long, long time.

 

I am generally as optomistic as anybody, but I am also a realist.

 

But anybody who thinks that becasue we are currently sitting in 5th with an outstanding plus 16 goal, over the next couple of year we are going to be compeating as a genuine top 4 challenger is in for a major disapointment.

 

I am only commenting becasue I hear a lot of 'pushing on to the next level' and 'breaking in to the top 4' talk, as if this is just some natural progression, and its just not realistic given the current situation of English football.

 

I can just see the topics next season when we are still battling for a UEFA place - 'Moyes isn't the man to take us to the next level' , 'Moyes has taken us as far as he can'.

 

Getting from 17th place to 5th place in the league is the easy bit - Becoming a 'top 4' team I would say is more than twice the job, becasue you basically have to be come at least one of the top 10 teams in the World. Which means buying the player and paying the wages that comes with being such a team.

 

Funny, topic this on a day where reports that Arsene Wenger may leave, that could also result in an exodus of player. If say that was the case this summer. That is the time when a team like Everton should maybe take a slight risk and spend money where needed as the back door in to the 'Top 4' maybe slightly ajar for a season. Not to a Leeds extent - But maybe pay a £1m or so over the odds for players needed or really wanted.

 

Its not a totally impossible task, but you need a decent pile of cash, a current top 4 team to slip up and a lot of luck. Especially if you want it to be come the norm rather than a 1 season wonder.

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I dont think "the next level" when discussed on this forum is top 4 I think the next level for us is sustained european football which means becomming one of the best teams outside the "big 4".

 

A realistic target for us next season is a decent run in the UEFA Cup and qualifying again next season, this will help us attract more players & keep the ones we have hopefully pushing us an extra round or 2 the season after. Remember the shite have spent millions in the last 10 years and had to go through seasons of European failure before they made the breakthrough to regular champions league participants.

 

We are realistically in a similar position to that of Liverpool 10 years ago and theres years of hard work before us but the quality of out team now means we can start to ask when are we going to be delivered a cup or 2 IMO!!

 

The futures bright and we as fans need to develop and accept we are most definatly in a transitional period and expectiong the world now is the wrong attitude to have. I began to doubt Moyes midway through the season but now I am comming round to the fact that we are most definatly moving forward in ALL the righ ways.

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Robb said.............. ""But anybody who thinks that becasue we are currently sitting in 5th with an outstanding plus 16 goal, over the next couple of year we are going to be compeating as a genuine top 4 challenger is in for a major disapointment.""

 

...........

 

 

Rob, thats why i replied to your original Post, So what if we are not classed as one the big Four.

 

As Liam said lets continue how we are now with regular visits into Europe, maintain a healthy position in the league and maybe, just maybe, after a few years we will be looked at as one of the Big Five.

 

But basically I'm saying be proud and be happy about who we are, we might have been Cambridge United, or Chesterfield supporters, but thank god we are the Chosen. :)

 

Bill.

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Robb said.............. ""But anybody who thinks that becasue we are currently sitting in 5th with an outstanding plus 16 goal, over the next couple of year we are going to be compeating as a genuine top 4 challenger is in for a major disapointment.""

 

...........

Rob, thats why i replied to your original Post, So what if we are not classed as one the big Four.

 

As Liam said lets continue how we are now with regular visits into Europe, maintain a healthy position in the league and maybe, just maybe, after a few years we will be looked at as one of the Big Five.

 

But basically I'm saying be proud and be happy about who we are, we might have been Cambridge United, or Chesterfield supporters, but thank god we are the Chosen. :)

 

Bill.

I totally agree. We are a very successful club. Tons of clubs would love the opportunity to constantly play in the premiership. Year afer year we are competitive and we are putting together a solid squad, maybe even the best outside the top 4. Although it would be nice to have more money the fact of the matter is we don't. Will we soon who knows, but we can't do anything about that. We can only be concerned with the things we have control of. I can see us makng a nice push in UEFA and continue to build from there.

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