Hafnia Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 There's a saying once bitten - twice shy. Evertonians have been bitten numerous times by the clowns in charge of running our club. So when we hear of a top quality player meant to be signing - what happens? We all get on the forum saying "great if it's true, but doubt it etc etc" reason being is that the club have tried to hoodwink the fans too many times about being in for such a player when we haven't got the intention nor the resources to go through with it. Owen, Kuyt, Keane, Emre etc etc. Everton at the moment is just like Gerry Halliwell - we need to be linked with someone of prestige just to remind everyone that we still exist whilst not doing anything ourselves to justify it. Anelka will prove to be another addition to that list - Moyes knows he's quality - he's worth the money as he is a proven goalscorer (ideal for Beattie), but Moyes doesn't have the man management skills to handle big name (big attitude) players. Unfortunately that is a bad trait to have as some players need their egos stroking as bad as it is. You can't pay a player £50K a week and try to break their arrogance/petulence - they have the power. I was dissapointed to hear Moyes criticise Arteta and Neville after the derby, and this highlighted what I have been told by a friend close to the club in the media - that Moyes does things which can get players backs up. If he wants to follow Sir Alex, then start off by publicly backing players - create a siege mentality. It's harsh but it is a simple fact and it is based on many dissapointing experiences as a fan. I'm sick of being linked to quality players which we don't get - only to get cut price lacking quality - run all day and do as you are told players - no arguments (Moyes). We are slowly priming a squad fit for championship football where it will get to the stage that Tim, Mikky and Joey will be off looking for a team where players are on the same footballing wavelength. Sorry if I sound negative - it's just the way I feel - and it's the way that I feel because it is the way that I see it and the way it is going to continue unless things change!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fozzie22 Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 (edited) To be honest it was refreshing to hear DM have a go at chuckle and arteta after the derby I for one am fed up with hearing managers say they didnt see anything when its there own team,but when it happens to them they eyes like a shithouse rat. It smacks of double standards and i was glad to hear him have a go for once. Oh and the fact the bullshit-o-meter was in overdrive about going after Owen still makes me laugh Edited January 10, 2006 by fozzie22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I agree honesty is great Foz - but in this case it would have been wiser to stick by two players who showed they cared - rather than say what most people were thinking. Ferguson and Mourinho do this to great effect and creates a them and us mentality and that is reflected in the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fozzie22 Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I agree honesty is great Foz - but in this case it would have been wiser to stick by two players who showed they cared - rather than say what most people were thinking. Ferguson and Mourinho do this to great effect and creates a them and us mentality and that is reflected in the team. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I know what you're saying mate,but i think the fact they have world class players helps more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowlo-efc Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 So after that grumble ... You mention that things will stay the same unless something changes. You give a comprehensable account of what is wrong with the club etc.etc. but you fail to mention what you would actually change. So, what would you change hafnia... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldfishMemory Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Ah the challenge of management! Come on Hafnia tell us wot u av learned during the hours you spend on champ manager Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Champ manager??? Well if it was champ manager I would have quit the game and started again that's for starters. Computers are logical and do not lie - they can get things wrong but they don't produce smokescreens - when something is wrong you know it is wrong. Pointless comparison because this is real life. What would I change? What are we able to change would be a start. The club is rotten from the top, if you can't see this now then i'm afraid it will take relegation for it to be more evident. Youth policy - a few natural players who would flourish in any academy does not hide the fact that we are years behind of clubs such as Blackburn, Liverpool and even the Mancs. Young Evertonians are being driven to other clubs by disillusioned fathers who will not allow the love of their club to get in the way of their sons future. Transfer policy / Contracts - spending £5m on a defender who we cannot deploy? Unable to cope with demands of premiership at this moment - needs one on one training with Dunc and Beattie to toughen up??? Buying Beattie without a strike partner sown up (I rate Beattie) - everyone knows he operates best with a pacey player. Allowing Stubbs to go for the sake of 1 year - boyhood blue? resigning Pistone on his terms because we could get no one else - but almost losing Osman over a few grand. Coming out and saying we were signing Sissoko before player signed. Stating interest in Owen at £11m - but we have no funds now?? Substitutions: Derby match - say no more. Ability to set stall out - when it goes wrong - no ideas. 3-1 down no extra striker??? Fortess fund - yeah right Out of three cups at 1st hurdle - almost four (bar replay) Now tell me - out of the highlighted above - who is held responsible and is accountable? not me - I am a fan with an opinion the same as everyone on here (barring RS invaders) - I pay to watch games - as do many thousand justifying our claims as a well supported club - we have spent £25m and have progressed zilch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooberman Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 i agree with the whole of that last post hafnia, but who do you hold responsible for it? moyes? bk? gregg? fortress fund? all of them? personally i think it's a combination of the lot, and i think the core of the blame should fall heavily in bk's lap - cos at the end of the day the promises he makes, the smokescreens he puts up (bids for owen, anelka blah blah) - the club has no transparency.... needs to be sorted asap or we could go down. but we're a football club and football ultimately decides what happens - if we sign anelka and gravesen in the next two weeks, and beat portsmouth at the weekend and millwall in the replay, suddenly the doubts vanish. (especially when vdm, kroldrup, martyn, yobo etc are all fit and challenging for first team football....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I blame Kenwright - he is blue through and through but I know a load of those - it doesn't mean they should be the chairman of what is ultimately a business. Sentiment and enthusiasm does not not make up for shrewd, prudent and at times ruthless business accumen - which he ain't got. He has lied regards the FF - nuff said. Moyes - I do believe that he does have man management issues - I didn't believe so at first and didn't when told by a person a knows players. I like his single mindedness in a way - but not when it comes to the fact that he can display tactical naivity and allow his personal opinion and morals come between signing the right quality players (not just yes men who will do as they are told). he seems intent on signing honest players - which I take as shorthand way of saying - not good enough but works hard. This is ok in the lower leagues but not when you are playing teams with Henry's, Rooney's, and Coles. I think the jury is still out on Chief exec as who would have wanted his job? I think the problem is that we are kept in the dark as to how long the club has been in disarray and to what extent. Did Rooney leave? was he sold? - I think the latter. This indicates there was a deeper lying problem at the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowlo-efc Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 AS far as Rooney goes - I do not think there is a deep routed problem with Kenwright or the board - it is more that the club was very desparate for the cash and quick - which is also why we had to bow down to Man Utd's credit agreement. That aside. You are good at pointing out the faults of the club but anyone can do that. You fail to see your participation as anything significant. Look at it simply, the sponsorship deals and Tv rights are the money in football. They only exist as a direct contribution from the fans of both the club and general footie fans. Without this, the clubs would not exist - we are, in all essence, the clubs bread and butter - the rest are just nicely flavoured trimmings. Based on this, you must realise that you have a massive participation where your own club is concerned. But you can't do it alone unless you have a spare £50m to buy the club. The fact is, if we all chant Moyes out - then he will go. If we all chant Kenwright out - then he will, eventually, go. If we all shout kilbane out - then he will leave... but what is the point? Its all very well saying that the board is shit, the manager is too inexperienced and the players are little more than average. How do you change a bad situation? Kenwright has put his money in to the club and pulled us out of the shite - sure, I would love the manager to get £20m a season to spend but it isn't going to happen. We have had very little in the way of investment and people blame kenwright for not wanting to let go - why should he. He has given up his Theatre roles to keep his beloved club afloat - a sacrfice that not many would make. Logically he has gone from being a successful theatre impresario to a chairman of a struggling club that barely makes ends meets. There is certainly no prestige in that - so he must be doing it for pride and I am sure that he will take investment if it comes from the right avenue. As for Moyes - yes he is inexperienced and he isnt quite up to scratch in the transfer market. But then he is 10 yrs behind most other managers and did come from Preston North nobheads where he had about £5 to spend and spent most of his time trying to kepp hold of his nurtured players. He is hardly going to take the world by storm is he. Howard Kendall wasn't the best when it came to spending big money and neither was Alex Ferguson - but look at them both now. Moyes needs time and so do his back room staff who are equally inexperienced, and we should give it to them. IF he was to go who would we realistically get to replace him...Peter Reid? Inexperienced and makes a living out of winding people up?! Andy Gray ...hmmm... You can call for change all you like, but its useless unless you can provide a realistic change to implement. I agree that this season is very messy and things haven't gone to plan - but its not the end of the world. We will not be relegated and with a bit more time I feel that the team will bed in nicely and the performances of 04/05 will return. Thats positive I know - but I am realistic and I can see steady improvement with every home game that I attend. The Charlton game - Beattie's running was a shock to the system for most and Arteta/Cahill combination was inspiring and solid - so we are improving in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldfishMemory Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Well backed up Hafnia No offence with the the Champ' Manager comment either! I have let the blue blood get the better of me this season and in a way i still hope we pull 20 mil out the bag and sign some quality players in january. The fact is we do have a good squad capable of regular european place finishes, weather that squad is capable of competing in Europe is a different question but teams like boro have proven u only have to be there to benifit. We are in dire need of goals but although players like Anelka will no doubt get goals it is not the right move for team building. Everton currently are very poorly run, i would not get rid of Moyes but it is definatly time for him to grow and change, he has hit a "plateau" if you like. As fo BK i do honestly believe that he dragged us out of the shit but his time has long passed! We are in a relativly stable position, we have a manager with bundles of potential, a team with a decent prospects (we are no where near relegation fodder!!), KW seems to be putting the business side of things in order - slowley but no doubt progress is being made. Everton need fresh drive at the top of the tree and the rest i believe is on the verge of falling into place. The issues of transparancy are definatly a problem but if we put things into perspective then here is Everton of today compared with the Everton BK took over. Team: Then we were signing 35year old players and has been strikers to get us from one season to the next. Now a relativly young team with potential to become something more with the right management and signings. (Forget Rooney he is in the past and his sale DID help the greater cause) Business: Then we were 20-30-40mil (who knows or cares!) in debt and in serious danger of selling everything we had to balance the books and ending up with nothing! Now we are trading at a small profit, no money to spend but in the black with the bank. All of this is an achievement for a man who puts on plays for a living this can not be doubted. However i do not believe BK has the business accumen to move us forward so can i take this opportunity to ask BK to wake up and once again do what is right for Everton football club. Move on and let someone who can move us forward take over, we all know you are blue but this is my Everton too, we deserve more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldfishMemory Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I am thinking along the same lines a rowlo here but i do firmly believe that although BK has pulled us out the shit it is now his main objective to bring in proper backing and then take a back seat. The way football works now days we need financial backing not the love of an evertonian, if that where the case i'd apply for the job! We need a Russian Gangster (sorry legitimate business man) or a Sultan or sumat like that and quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Good comments lads - the fact that the likes of ourselves having such informed opinions is a sign that those who try to pull wool over our eyes are unable to do so in the manner that they used to. It is a sad state of affairs that we have to admit that we are where we are financially in terms of lack of investment and yes that we are are in essence skint, if any club deserves a foreign sugar daddy who wants to spend daddy's millions and use us as their hobby then it's us. Our history will prevent people having the new found hatred that accompanies Chelsea - what did they do before Roman (bar FA Cup)??? We deserve some good fortune. It's just so annoying that we so often hear the phrase "turn the corner" after last season when we should be hearing "Progress". It is is getting near kick on or move on stage. Future managers should needs be - Jewell, Newell or O'Neil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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