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What Can This Team Achieve?

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Are we just going through a good patch or can this team really achieve things?

 

So many false dawns before but there seems to be such momentum at the moment.

 

Playing at our best we can compete with anyone its just the consistancy that worries me (based on what we've done before0.

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What concerns me is that even though we've been on this good run so has everyone around us and we havn't really made any ground up. We need other teams to slip up while we're in form, a bit of luck if you will. If that happens then Europe and maybe a cup is a possibility.

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.............................Two Good Goalkeepers!

 

Neville/Hibbert....................................................Valente/Baines.

 

........................Yobo/Jags..............Lescott/Stubbs.

 

 

.......................Midfield, plenty of cover!

 

 

........................Loads of free scoring forwards!

 

Cover for every position!

 

Can we achieve things? Why not!Confidence is high, I'd say were a team most wont want to play against.Never know when were beaten, master tormenter Cahill back to his best.Forwards

knowing they have to score...and a fully fit Gravo wanting to play his part.

Luck with injuries and a growing confidence....hell yes!

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Thing for me, just watching extended highlights on Everton TV, is that when TC and Yak came off they were smiling and laughing with AJ and Vic. Not remotely pissed that were missing out on the chance of a hat-trick but just genuinely pleased about the teams performance. Says a huge amount about the spirit for me and I like the way DM has kept talking up the players left out of the sixteen.

 

We avoid serious levels of injury then Europe again and maybe a cup is certainly achievable. Fully fit squad we can beat anyone. Big game next week, very difficult to win at Pompey...no-one's done it yet this season but it's not beyond us.

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Good result/Perf @ Pompey & we then have the credential's to maybe start Wishing upon a star that little bit more :)

 

January could be defining, Continued run, the correct signing or 2............?......And who knows what we could kick on 2.

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Hi all this is my 1st post so hello to all you regulars.

I too am the most positive about the everton squad than I have been in years. I do however have concerns about the hectic month coming up: 2 Uefa cup games, a carling Q/Final and 6 premiership games against mostly tough oppostion (Fulham being probably the safest bet of the month). I am confident that we can do enough to be in a decent position by January to be ok but I feel if we get injuries in the wrong places i.e. non-strikers we may start to suffer with the games coming so thick and fast.

How does everyone else feel about a tough December?

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Yes, we go into December full of optimism.

 

As Romney says, we've kept pace with the teams around us, so its imprtant to keep it up as we've achieved nothing yet.

 

The good thing is teams will be coming up against us thinking about us and not thinking let av em their crap

 

A bit of luck (chelsea) and a lot of good football (sunderland) and we will do well

 

Pompey will define our season

 

How many times after a good run have we played crap and been brought down to earth with a bump

 

Your only as good as your next game

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What concerns me is that even though we've been on this good run so has everyone around us and we havn't really made any ground up. We need other teams to slip up while we're in form, a bit of luck if you will. If that happens then Europe and maybe a cup is a possibility.

 

we've reeled in Blackburn and made up 5 points of difference (a few weeks ago they were 5 points ahead with a game in hand) plus Man City are closer and teams like Newcastle and West Ham are starting to fall away a little, plus we extended the gap on Spurs at the weekend. Blackburn play Villa tomo night so someone will have to drop some points there (let's hope for a draw) and then if we can beat Portsmouth (big ask but as far as I'm concerned we're the better team) then all of a sudden I think we could jump a few places next weekend. I don't think teams like Villa can sustain their form, they haven't got a particularly great team and Blackburn have a decent first eleven but not much cover. Portsmouth have streaky players, they can be blistering for a few weeks then not score for months, I'd expect us to get past them too and from what I've seen of City they're in a false position. Cup runs are the only worry for our league form, but this season I think we may finally have the squad to do both. I mean we have players like Stubbs, Vaughan, AJ, Anichebe, Gravesen, Baines, Jags/Hibbert, McFadden who can all come in and do a job, some of them will probably even improve the team (Baines, Vaughan etc).

 

I really am excited about this season, we just need to beat Portsmouth (certainly not lose) it's the biggest match of the season so far for me.

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I wouldn't lay too much on the pompey game I think it would be great to win. I thnik in the summer 1 new quality midfielder should be brought in and I would like both grav and piernar secured by the summer. I would be happy with that. I think jags should be given a bit of a game at CB as I think it's evolving that is where we need cover.

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This team really is looking healthy. I'll write again after the pompey game because we could, as previously said, be brought right back down to earth. But seriously we should aim for silver this season. A win vs WHam and I fancy us.

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Grav should only be a stop gap, anyone who sees him as a long term signing is deranged. He hasn't even been an effective stop gap, remind me how much he's actually played?

not much, but then again his presence might have inspired Osman to produce his best and he came on and won us 3 points against Bolton, created the winner against Sheffield Weds etc and it's only early days. I think Gravesen will turn out to be a good deal, there's still time for him to come through and he must be nearing fitness now, he's obviously a very popular player in the dressing room too so his effect on morale and his experience and ability being passed on to the younger members of our team shouldn't be overlooked either. I still think Gravesen's time will come.

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I think Gravesen will turn out to be a good deal, there's still time for him to come through and he must be nearing fitness now, he's obviously a very popular player in the dressing room too so his effect on morale and his experience and ability being passed on to the younger members of our team shouldn't be overlooked either. I still think Gravesen's time will come.

 

Spot on mate!

 

Some on here would have dumped him, Anichebe and Osman a few months back!Good job the fans don't run the club :rolleyes:

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Tommy's never going to get any better, we had him for 3 seasons and he only played decent for the last 4 months when he went looking for a transfer abroad, could'nt even make it into the Celtic team. We can get a lot better than Grav.

 

Signing Pienaar is a must tho, BEFORE TIME RUNS OUT THIS TIME. not like Fernandes.

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Signing Pienaar is a must tho, BEFORE TIME RUNS OUT THIS TIME. not like Fernandes.

 

Certainly Piennar before Gravo!.......Piennar could prove one of the best buys this season.

Seems to get better with each game.

 

Gravesen if cheap or part of a deal with McFadden is worth keeping for as mentioned, what he

can do for the squad.Gravo couldn't make the Celtic team!Could be many reasons for that.

Vaughan didn't make the squad Saturday.....just happens!

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Vaughan didnt make the squad saturday, Grav didnt make the squad for a bit more than one game

 

If we keep winning and injury free, Vaughan still wont make the squad!The lads time will come, proving you can be out of a squad and a good player.

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Except Gravesen has only been a good player for 4-6months. Vaughan has a future ahead of him, Grav will be on the scrapheap pretty sharpish if he doesnt sort his fitness out. Gravesen should not be signed permanently, it's as simple as that really.

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Except Gravesen has only been a good player for 4-6months. Vaughan has a future ahead of him, Grav will be on the scrapheap pretty sharpish if he doesnt sort his fitness out. Gravesen should not be signed permanently, it's as simple as that really.

 

Agree Vaughan has a future....your opinion on Gravo, if like your opinion on Anichebe(fat, lazy waste of space.....kick him out), Osman(no good) and Carsley (too old), don't really matter to me, as you seem to have players you hate....Gravo being one!He came on as a sub the other day and changed the course of the game with a killer pass and a pin point corner......didn't post much after that game did you :rolleyes:

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Except Gravesen has only been a good player for 4-6months. Vaughan has a future ahead of him, Grav will be on the scrapheap pretty sharpish if he doesnt sort his fitness out. Gravesen should not be signed permanently, it's as simple as that really.

 

Agree Vaughan has a future....your opinion on Gravo, if like your opinion on Anichebe(fat, lazy waste of space.....kick him out), Osman(no good) and Carsley (too old), don't really matter to me, as you seem to have players you hate....Gravo being one!He came on as a sub the other day and changed the course of the game with a killer pass and a pin point corner......didn't post much after that game did you :rolleyes:

 

 

You really are a twit arent you? I dont recall saying Anichebe is fat, and that would be because he's not. But he IS lazy, he DOES have poor fitness etc. Can you argue with that in all honesty? Osman is not no good, he is inconsistent and it's infuriating. Carsley is too old and we should have been actively looking for a replacement for him 2 years ago. He only looks good in a 5 man midfield when he doesn't have to move at all because he is not mobile anymore. Mobility is a key attribute of a defensive midfielder. If you're happy to keep him til he's 40 because he can do a job then that's fine, but my aspirations for Everton are a little higher. I do not hate Gravo, I was gutted when he left actually but he is not that same player, so why live in the past ffs? He's 29/30 now and is not going to get better, once again you're happy with mediocrity. I, on the other hand, am not.

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You really are a twit arent you? I dont recall saying Anichebe is fat, and that would be because he's not. But he IS lazy, he DOES have poor fitness etc. Can you argue with that in all honesty? Osman is not no good, he is inconsistent and it's infuriating. Carsley is too old and we should have been actively looking for a replacement for him 2 years ago. He only looks good in a 5 man midfield when he doesn't have to move at all because he is not mobile anymore. Mobility is a key attribute of a defensive midfielder. If you're happy to keep him til he's 40 because he can do a job then that's fine, but my aspirations for Everton are a little higher. I do not hate Gravo, I was gutted when he left actually but he is not that same player, so why live in the past ffs? He's 29/30 now and is not going to get better, once again you're happy with mediocrity. I, on the other hand, am not.

I'd personally take exception to he was only good for 4 months. He was always our most talented player and was only totally inconsistent as Smith played him constantly out of position (right winger) like he did with virtually all our players, and because he was surrounded by useless players. He was excellent when Jeffers/Campbell were in the team and even Radzinski benefitted from his incisive passing. He has constantly been excellent for Denmark over his career and I think you are doing him a great disservice. He MAY not be the same player as when he left, but he's already transformed a couple of games and who knows how important those points could be come end of the season? All I know is, if we were drawing 1-1 at home with 20 mins to go, I'd rather bring Gravesen off the bench to play some killer passes then any other midfielders on the bench, it's not as if Jags is going to come on and spray the ball around and split defences. Gravesen still has an eye for a pass, he's already shown that in about the 50 mins football he has had for us, that ability to open defences is priceless and a commodity we don't have enough of in our team. If Osman/Cahill got injured then Gravesen would go straight into the 5. As well as Osman is playing, I still have a belief that Gravesen could make us even better,

 

If he's past it then so be it, but I don't think anyone can say for definite he is until he's had a few games. The bottom line is he was on loan and I think he's raised morale of both fans and players. He'll make an impact.

 

As for Blue 250's comments, I can see what he is saying - you do go have players you obviously dislike and can't seem to watch without prejudice. You said Carsley was totally past it, had no pace, and that Jags should be playing, you were wrong - like you were about 451. Carsley has once again been immense in a 5, it's about time you gave him some credit.

 

edit:

 

on another note, everyone goes on about how Gravesen couldn't cut at Celtic, yet they never mention the fact that we only have Pienaar on loan because he flopped at his other club and Sociedad were farming Arteta out after only 1 season as he had majorly disappointed as a replacement for Alonso - we both know what great players they are turning out to be. It doesn't always work out for any player at every club he plays for, but Moyes knows how to get the best out of Gravesen.

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As for Blue 250's comments, I can see what he is saying - you do go have players you obviously dislike and can't seem to watch without prejudice. You said Carsley was totally past it, had no pace, and that Jags should be playing, you were wrong - like you were about 451. Carsley has once again been immense in a 5, it's about time you gave him some credit.

 

Wrong. I have my favourites like every fan and I have players I don't rate all that highly, sue me. However, that doesnt mean I watch with prejudice. If you'd notice what I said after the Sunderland game you'd see that, I said I couldnt fault any player and Carsley is obviously included in that. Also when Arteta (one of my 'favourites') had a bad patch I criticised him.

 

Give Carsley some credit? What for? Being an average player who does a job? Or being so one dimensional he can only perform in one formation perhaps?

 

At the end of the day we have differing opinions, it's not the end of the world. It's what being a fan on a forum is all about.

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Give Carsley some credit? What for? Being an average player who does a job? Or being so one dimensional he can only perform in one formation perhaps?

He was suberp on saturday, and has played well the last couple of games without being surrounded by Neville who clearly cannot play midfield whatsoever. we all no he aint a class player but in a 4 5 1 cars can do a good job u no that yourself, im the first on his back when he plays poor ill admit that and everyone knows we need a replacement for him whos got a bit of quality about them, but he's been a great servant to the club. I know I havent really answered anything thats just my opinion on Cars.

 

On Tommy, Tommy is a fan favourite you can tell by when he gets up do warm up but if we being honest we need to buy a centremidfielder with a bit more than just " The killer ball " someone who also has a physical presance and is composed on the ball he doesnt have much fitness but he could prove people wrong, I want him to get a chance myself because im undecieded if he's good enough or not but moyes is never going to bring him in while were winning teams week in week out.

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on another note, everyone goes on about how Gravesen couldn't cut at Celtic, yet they never mention the fact that we only have Pienaar on loan because he flopped at his other club and Sociedad were farming Arteta out after only 1 season as he had majorly disappointed as a replacement for Alonso - we both know what great players they are turning out to be. It doesn't always work out for any player at every club he plays for, but Moyes knows how to get the best out of Gravesen.

 

Flopped? Hardly. You should check out the facts before you throw that at him.

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Flopped? Hardly. You should check out the facts before you throw that at him.

 

Signed for Borussia Dortmund on a three-year contract from Ajax in Jan 2006. Seen as a replacement Tomáš Rosický...played twenty-five games and scored none. If he was a success they why did they offload him to us?

 

Have no idea how well he played for them but the bare facts suggest he didn't set the place alight.

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Signed for Borussia Dortmund on a three-year contract from Ajax in Jan 2006. Seen as a replacement Tomáš Rosický...played twenty-five games and scored none. If he was a success they why did they offload him to us?

 

Have no idea how well he played for them but the bare facts suggest he didn't set the place alight.

 

Could this be the reason why Mike.........

 

In December 2005, Pienaar suffered a knee injury that would keep him out of action for four months. One match later, in January 2006, it was announced that Borussia Dortmund had signed Pienaar on a three-year contract from Ajax.

 

Not easy coming back after four months out with a bad knee injury.

Journalistic tendencies coming out again, only quoting half the article. :D

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Beat me to it Licker! :D

 

MikeO... Dortmund has been in such a piss-poor state in terms of managing its best players that it is little surprise Pienaar struggled. It was not a simple case of him not being good enough and the farmed off to us; of course, there may have been an element of that to it in terms of him wanting to get fit, but I doubt it's the main reason as Licker pointed out.

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Give Carsley some credit? What for? Being an average player who does a job? Or being so one dimensional he can only perform in one formation perhaps?

 

it could be said that cahill only flourishes in the 451

sure you wanna go saying that a player is garbage just because they fit really well into a certain formation?

because we all know both cahill and carsley are not garbage and are FAR from it

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it could be said that cahill only flourishes in the 451

sure you wanna go saying that a player is garbage just because they fit really well into a certain formation?

because we all know both cahill and carsley are not garbage and are FAR from it

good point, many of our players only flourish in the 451 system - we all know Carsley is no great shakes in a 442, but then again none of our central midfielders are. The fact is in a 451 he has been consistently excellent over the last few seasons and he will go through a brick wall for Everton, I don't think he is the most talented of footballers but in a 451 he'd be one of the first names on my teamsheet. A word for Neville as well, a player I'm not overly enamoured with but once again has been excellent since switching to RB but never gets any credit even when he has a hand in a few goals.

 

No one could possibly say Pienaar was a success in Germany, he may have had a knee injury which knocked him back but as far as I'm concerned - playing only 25 games, scoring no goals and being farmed out on loan (with an option to buy I thought?) suggests flop to me. Whatever the reasons, he's a good player :)

 

As for Tommy, no one is saying he is the long term answer or that in a 442 he is definitely what we need - as blue4ever said we need the powerhouse CM that we've been craving for years. All I'm saying is he gives us creativity and energy and let's not judge him until he's been given a chance, I still think he has something left in the locker.

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"Playing only 25 games, scoring no goals and being farmed out on loan (with an option to buy I thought?) suggests flop to me. Whatever the reasons, he's a good player."

 

Make your mind up Carl is he a flop or a good player. ??

 

If you read the article you will see they bought from Ajax a week after his Knee injury, ( Why no medical ??) and he never played for them for over 4 months, so 25 games doesnt seem a bad return. ( bit better than VDM ) :)

As to the goals scored he is not a goalscorer, in fact his best season with Ajax seen him score only 5 times, his seasonal average is about 3 per season and he's nearly there with us now. I think he was brought here for the football input not for goals.

Arteta had nobody here to help him play Football, Osman was on the opposite wing and not playing very well hence the long ball every time, but now Pienaar, Osman, and Arteta link up so well together we are able to play more football through the Midfield, much more attractive to watch and the results are coming in.

 

At whatever price they are asking for Pienaar i think it should be done while he is playing here, and not waiting till the season runs out, risking another Fernandes Fook up.

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"Playing only 25 games, scoring no goals and being farmed out on loan (with an option to buy I thought?) suggests flop to me. Whatever the reasons, he's a good player."

 

Make your mind up Carl is he a flop or a good player. ??

 

If you read the article you will see they bought from Ajax a week after his Knee injury, ( Why no medical ??) and he never played for them for over 4 months, so 25 games doesnt seem a bad return. ( bit better than VDM ) :)

As to the goals scored he is not a goalscorer, in fact his best season with Ajax seen him score only 5 times, his seasonal average is about 3 per season and he's nearly there with us now. I think he was brought here for the football input not for goals.

Arteta had nobody here to help him play Football, Osman was on the opposite wing and not playing very well hence the long ball every time, but now Pienaar, Osman, and Arteta link up so well together we are able to play more football through the Midfield, much more attractive to watch and the results are coming in.

 

At whatever price they are asking for Pienaar i think it should be done while he is playing here, and not waiting till the season runs out, risking another Fernandes Fook up.

I always said he was a good player (for us). IF he was such a success at Dortmund and is only on loan to build his fitness then why on earth would they sell him to us when he's playing so well? If they sell him to us then I can only assume it's due to them not being too keen on him, either that or we'll have to offer silly money. I hope we get him as he looks a fantastic buy, but if Dortmund do sell him to us then I think that has to define his stay at Dortmund as a flop :)

 

Another example of a flop is Brad Friedel, he looked absolutely abysmal at Liverpool and has gone on to be one of the consistently best keepers in the league at Blackburn. All I'm saying is not every club works out for every player, but the one manager who did get the best out of Tommy G is Moyes, so if anyone is going to get him playing again then it's him.

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Journalistic tendencies coming out again, only quoting half the article. :D

 

As I said I knew nothing at all about Pienaar's time at Dortmund. Think judging him on a season and a half is fair isn't it? Presumably Borussia gave him a medical before they signed him. On paper and given their willingness to get rid he can surely only be regarded as a flop, whatever went before.

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"Presumably Borussia gave him a medical before they signed him"

 

 

They signed him a week after he done his Knee, must have been the same Medical team that did'nt give VDM one. :lol:

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Pienaar wasn't a flop. They way the two of you are looking at it is backwards. If you're just gonna look at the goal statistics then you could call a lot of Dortmund's players flops.

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Pienaar wasn't a flop. They way the two of you are looking at it is backwards. If you're just gonna look at the goal statistics then you could call a lot of Dortmund's players flops.

we're not just looking at it from a goals point of view, that was just added ammunition. I'm looking at it as he's only played 25 games for them and they're now loaning him out with a view to selling him pretty cheap, that's surely the sign of a flop in anyone's books?

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So you buy an international player to replace Tomáš Rosický and he does well for you....doesn't flop at all, turns out to be the player you expected.

 

"I know," thinks Doll "I'll loan him out and then sell him, that's a good idea!"

 

Makes a lot of sense. Also (from AFP)...

 

"Slowly but surely, South African midfielder Steven Pienaar is recapturing the form that made him one of the most sought-after players in Europe in his early twenties.

 

The 25-year-old shone brightly in the Ajax side which won the domestic title in 2004, and reached the second round of the UEFA Champions League in 2005/06.

 

But he failed to show his true talent during a mixed 2006/07 season with German club Borussia Dortmund."

 

And my apologies for being backward <_< .

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""So you buy an international player to replace Tomáš Rosický""

 

Sorry Mike but they got him on a free, and its not surprising he struggled after 4months out with a busted knee.

 

 

Borussia Dortmund Loans Midfielder Steven Pienaar To FC Everton

 

Borussia Dortmund has loaned midfielder Steven Pienaar to English Premier League Club FC Everton until the end of the upcoming season (2007/2008). Both clubs agreed not to disclose the fee.

The 25 year-old South African international joined BVB at the start of the 2006/2007 season from Ajax Amsterdam on a free transfer.

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""So you buy an international player to replace Tomáš Rosický""

 

Sorry Mike but they got him on a free, and its not surprising he struggled after 4months out with a busted knee.

Borussia Dortmund Loans Midfielder Steven Pienaar To FC Everton

 

Borussia Dortmund has loaned midfielder Steven Pienaar to English Premier League Club FC Everton until the end of the upcoming season (2007/2008). Both clubs agreed not to disclose the fee.

The 25 year-old South African international joined BVB at the start of the 2006/2007 season from Ajax Amsterdam on a free transfer.

it may not be surprising he struggled and the reasons may be understandable, but the fact is, he had a fairly bad injury then came back and struggled for form, so they've loaned him out to us - basically that means, so far, he has flopped. Whatever the reasons and justification, that is the bottom line. Next someone will tell me VDM hasn't flopped! :D

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Putting VD Meyde and Pienaar in the same bracket :o what-a mistake-a to Make-a, your a crazy man. :D

 

Both where very good players five years ago, one has had a bad injury struggled to recover Fitness, stamina and confidence but the dedication, determination and hard work has paid off, and he has once again become the very good player that he was.

 

The other went through similar problems but didnt have the same dedication to hard work, therefore did'nt regain any confidence or fitness, and would much rather throw the towel in and seek solace down the pub having a few Beers, so he has not become the very good player that he once was.

 

I'll leave you to decide which one was which. :)

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Substituting "acquire" for "buy" in my post changes nothing imo.

 

There you go with your nitpicking journalistic tendencies again Bill :lol::lol: .

 

In the old fashioned TT tradition we shall have to agree to differ.....but you're still wrong :jerry: .

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Carsley is a one dimensional clogger, all teams need them, it helps the team tick.

 

Sometimes the best teams dont have world class players in all positions

 

Look at Makalele at Chelsea, Real Madrid were happy to let him go as they wouldnt give him galactico wages, but he was the one who let the galacticos play. They missed him big time when he was gone

 

Makalele would look shit in a 4-4-2 at Chelsea and Everton.

 

We do need a better central midfielder, but to be fair, moyes has been looking for the right one for years

 

If you look at anything in isolation, its easy to critise

 

Just my opinion at a poster on an Everton forum mind you

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Here is the problem.... "flop" and "player not working out" seem to be interchangeable to some people. In football, I personally think this is a backward way of thinking but there you go.

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