Would you like to make history?

[Cornish Steve]

Make history by being one of the people willing to support my petition to parliament. Here's the issue: British citizens who've lived outside the country for more than 15 years are barred from voting in constituency elections. I can understand this since we're not really associated with any geographic region and could try to register in places where the vote is close - giving us an unfair advantage. For national referendums, however, this restriction makes absolutely no sense. All British citizens are affected by the outcome of national referendums, so all British citizens must be allowed to vote - no matter where they live or how long they have lived there. Let's use the petition process to change this law - and put the EU referendum on hold until the government debates and resolves the matter. Below is the confirmation email I received from the petition website. For this new petition to become official, I need at least five other citizens to sign it. Would you do that? Thank you!

 

 

I’ve made a petition – will you sign it?

Click this link to sign the petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/…/sponso…/dHiNe1HVZ17Kogtv4fB

My petition:

All British citizens shall have the right to vote in national referendums.

All British citizens must have the right to participate in referendums that are national in extent. The rule that bars citizens from voting in constituency elections if they have lived outside the country for more than 15 years shall not apply to voting in national referendums.

All British citizens are affected by the outcome of national referendums; therefore, all British citizens must have the right to vote in said referendums, no matter where in the world they live and no matter how long they have lived outside the country. No national referendum shall be conducted until this matter is resolved and all loyal subjects are granted this fundamental democratic right.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Cornish Steve

[Matt]

Done

[johnh]

Steve, depends on if you are going to vote 'out'.

[Matt]

I don't actually object to me not being allowed a vote for leadership; I don't pay taxes, haven't lived there for 10 years and have no interest in going back (unless there's a good job). However, as a citizen, I'd love to vote against it because of the impact is enormous and, simply put, it's fucking stupid.

[EFC-Paul]

Genuine question Steve but how are all British people affected by it if they live on the other side of the globe?

 

In all honesty if your no longer deemed a permanent resident here I don't think you should be able to vote as I can't see how it invovles or affects said people, not a personal dig at you and hats off for trying to make a change mate but I just don't grasp the issue

[Matt]

Genuine question Steve but how are all British people affected by it if they live on the other side of the globe?

 

In all honesty if your no longer deemed a permanent resident here I don't think you should be able to vote as I can't see how it invovles or affects said people, not a personal dig at you and hats off for trying to make a change mate but I just don't grasp the issue

If GB leave, at the very least anyone who has a British passport has different rights to travel in Europe, so it affects all citizens. Additionally, there are impacts for expats etc, i.e. might have to apply for visas which could potentially be rejected and then their forced out of their adopted countries. I know for me in Switzerland, there's not a massive impact for now, it's more that I hate the idea of segregating the world further. To steal from Roger Waters - "United we stand, divided we fall".

[MikeO]

If GB leave, at the very least anyone who has a British passport has different rights to travel in Europe, so it affects all citizens. Additionally, there are impacts for expats etc, i.e. might have to apply for visas which could potentially be rejected and then their forced out of their adopted countries. I know for me in Switzerland, there's not a massive impact for now, it's more that I hate the idea of segregating the world further. To steal from Roger Waters - "United we stand, divided we fall".

 

Absolutely, we need to be moving in the opposite direction imo, the more we separate and build walls (talking to you Mr Trump) and take the, "I'm all right Jack, screw the rest of you" attitude the more dangerous the planet will become.

[Romey 1878]

 

we need to be moving in the opposite direction imo,

 

Nah, you're alright. Ever closer union isn't needed if the vote is to stay (which is the most likely outcome), we're close enough without tying ourselves closer.

[MikeO]

 

Nah, you're alright. Ever closer union isn't needed if the vote is to stay (which is the most likely outcome), we're close enough without tying ourselves closer.

 

Everyone's entitled to their viewpoint . Sorry if this is going slightly in a different direction than you anticipated Steve. Anyway I've signed.

 

Didn't you want Cornish independence though, which would presumably result in you losing British citizenship anyway ?

[Cornish Steve]

Genuine question Steve but how are all British people affected by it if they live on the other side of the globe?

 

In all honesty if your no longer deemed a permanent resident here I don't think you should be able to vote as I can't see how it invovles or affects said people, not a personal dig at you and hats off for trying to make a change mate but I just don't grasp the issue

 

First of all, consider the anomalies:

 

1) Citizens of other countries can vote if they also hold a British passport; citizens of Britain only cannot vote if they live overseas.

2) Former citizens of other countries can vote no matter how recently they became British citizens; lifelong citizens of Britain cannot vote if they live overseas.

3) British citizens who live overseas are unable to vote in any election in any country, even though they are no less citizens than others.

 

Next, the petition relates to all national referendums, not just the upcoming EU referendum. Citizens living abroad, for example, would have no say if a future petition relates to:

 

1) Depriving all British subjects living overseas of their citizenship.

2) Treating citizens living overseas differently than all other British citizens - re legal, financial, social, and international rights.

3) In some way limiting the rights of citizens living abroad when they visit Britain or plan to return.

 

As far as the EU referendum is concerned:

 

1) I travel extensively around the world. The passport I hold, and the bilateral agreements in place, make it easy for me to travel. Depending on whether or not we remain in the EU, travel may become more difficult for me.

2) Related to this, the business and finance rules under which I operate could change quite dramatically - e.g., taxation for British companies operating overseas (which typically hire a lot of Brits living overseas).

3) When I travel, will I be covered by British legal protections, EU protections, or both?

4) If I work for a British company in Europe, will I be treated as a British citizen, a local resident, or a foreign resident? It makes a difference.

5) It doesn't apply to me personally, but what if I married a foreign citizen or adopted children while overseas? Could they still enter Britain or Europe if I move there?

 

This is just a sampling of the issues that affect citizens living overseas. At these forums, we sometimes hear the message that no-one can be a real Everton fan if they don't personally show up for games - which is nonsense. Likewise, when it comes to citizenship, it's sometimes said that those living overseas are somehow 'less worthy' of their rights then those living in the country - which is also nonsense. Citizenship matters, and it cannot be lightly undermined.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Cornish Steve

[Cornish Steve]

 

Everyone's entitled to their viewpoint . Sorry if this is going slightly in a different direction than you anticipated Steve. Anyway I've signed.

 

Didn't you want Cornish independence though, which would presumably result in you losing British citizenship anyway ?

 

We're British, just not English. It's no different than being Welsh, for example.

[MikeO]

 

We're British, just not English. It's no different than being Welsh, for example.

 

Ah right, thought you were in the total independence North Korea style border along the Tamar camp ,

[Romey 1878]

Everyone's entitled to their viewpoint . Sorry if this is going slightly in a different direction than you anticipated Steve. Anyway I've signed.

 

Didn't you want Cornish independence though, which would presumably result in you losing British citizenship anyway ?

I'll be voting to leave so I'll just about be able to stomach the status quo. Tying ourselves closer will annoy me.

[Cornish Steve]

I need just one more person to formally support the petition for it to become officially recognized.

[markjazzbassist]

not a brit so i can't sadly, but best of luck.

[pete0]

Done.

[johnh]

The problem with the referendum is not the 'risk' of bailing out, it is the risk that staying in will give the European elite the green light and confidence to speed up the process of a Federal Europe, plus a million other things that are sitting on the back burner. We will be 'ordered' to join the euro which would be disaster for our economy. (The frightening thing is that there are still people in government who would welcome it. Kenneth Clark, Mandelson etc., even though it has been a disaster for many countries.) Britain has minimal influence in the EU which is run by, and in the interests of, Germany. France have this weird idea that they run it. I see a far bigger risk voting 'in' than voting 'out'.

[Matt]

The problem with the referendum is not the 'risk' of bailing out, it is the risk that staying in will give the European elite the green light and confidence to speed up the process of a Federal Europe, plus a million other things that are sitting on the back burner. We will be 'ordered' to join the euro which would be disaster for our economy. (The frightening thing is that there are still people in government who would welcome it. Kenneth Clark, Mandelson etc., even though it has been a disaster for many countries.) Britain has minimal influence in the EU which is run by, and in the interests of, Germany. France have this weird idea that they run it. I see a far bigger risk voting 'in' than voting 'out'.

Isn't the referendum more about "no action" vs "leave" than more integration? That's how I've understood things.

[markjazzbassist]

The problem with the referendum is not the 'risk' of bailing out, it is the risk that staying in will give the European elite the green light and confidence to speed up the process of a Federal Europe, plus a million other things that are sitting on the back burner. We will be 'ordered' to join the euro which would be disaster for our economy. (The frightening thing is that there are still people in government who would welcome it. Kenneth Clark, Mandelson etc., even though it has been a disaster for many countries.) Britain has minimal influence in the EU which is run by, and in the interests of, Germany. France have this weird idea that they run it. I see a far bigger risk voting 'in' than voting 'out'.

 

not sure about england but france are the butt of so many jokes here. usually something to do with surrendering

[Matt]

Shared on FB too Steve, hopefully get some new names

[MikeO]

Isn't the referendum more about "no action" vs "leave" than more integration? That's how I've understood things.

 

According to the in camp it's not really "no action" because they claim to have got us a better deal and assurances over the future terms of our membership. The out camp see things differently obviously.

 

I'm just enjoying watching all the best mate Eton educated totally disconnected from the real world Tory toff twats slagging each other off .

[Matt]

 

According to the in camp it's not really "no action" because they claim to have got us a better deal and assurances over the future terms of our membership. The out camp see things differently obviously.

 

I'm just enjoying watching all the best mate Eton educated totally disconnected from the real world Tory toff twats slagging each other off .

fair enough, I'll have another look into it

[johnh]

Isn't the referendum more about "no action" vs "leave" than more integration? That's how I've understood things.

 

Cameron was supposed to have renegotiated a good deal for Britain but actually achieved the square root of sod all. The stark choice is leave or be part of a European superstate.

[EFC-Paul]

 

First of all, consider the anomalies:

 

1) Citizens of other countries can vote if they also hold a British passport; citizens of Britain only cannot vote if they live overseas.

2) Former citizens of other countries can vote no matter how recently they became British citizens; lifelong citizens of Britain cannot vote if they live overseas.

3) British citizens who live overseas are unable to vote in any election in any country, even though they are no less citizens than others.

 

Next, the petition relates to all national referendums, not just the upcoming EU referendum. Citizens living abroad, for example, would have no say if a future petition relates to:

 

1) Depriving all British subjects living overseas of their citizenship.

2) Treating citizens living overseas differently than all other British citizens - re legal, financial, social, and international rights.

3) In some way limiting the rights of citizens living abroad when they visit Britain or plan to return.

 

As far as the EU referendum is concerned:

 

1) I travel extensively around the world. The passport I hold, and the bilateral agreements in place, make it easy for me to travel. Depending on whether or not we remain in the EU, travel may become more difficult for me.

2) Related to this, the business and finance rules under which I operate could change quite dramatically - e.g., taxation for British companies operating overseas (which typically hire a lot of Brits living overseas).

3) When I travel, will I be covered by British legal protections, EU protections, or both?

4) If I work for a British company in Europe, will I be treated as a British citizen, a local resident, or a foreign resident? It makes a difference.

5) It doesn't apply to me personally, but what if I married a foreign citizen or adopted children while overseas? Could they still enter Britain or Europe if I move there?

 

This is just a sampling of the issues that affect citizens living overseas. At these forums, we sometimes hear the message that no-one can be a real Everton fan if they don't personally show up for games - which is nonsense. Likewise, when it comes to citizenship, it's sometimes said that those living overseas are somehow 'less worthy' of their rights then those living in the country - which is also nonsense. Citizenship matters, and it cannot be lightly undermined.

Cheers Steve I'll be honest due to not being yours and Matt's position that side of things has never crossed my mind so I get your points of view and reasoning

 

I want to leave for other reasons which I won't list as debating politics is like debating religion its a long and varied slog, I doubt a vote to leave will be passed anyway but if it did I'd hope in some way they can sort your side of things out abit to lessen any potential blow

[Matt]

Thought this was interesting...

Tony Barrett(Tmes' Football Correspondent on Europe)Can't believe anyone who's lived in Liverpool for the past 20 years would vote to be out. Europe's helped keep this city afloat. Giving up on all this and leaving our fate entirely in the hands of a London based, southern dominated Tory government would be an act of absolute madness:

Our area has quite a lot to be grateful to the EU for, more than 2 billion euros in fact.

Given the current debate taking place about our relationship with Europe in the wake of David Cameron wielding his veto last week I thought it salient to remember how Merseyside has benefitted from the EU.

Been to a show at the arena? The EU helped pay for that. Caught a flight to Ibiza or Lanzarote from Liverpool John Lennon Airport? The EU helped pay for the airport's expansion.

In fact the EU has been involved in funding most of the major projects that have taken place across the region in the past decade and a half.

Walk through any town centre across Merseyside and you will be able to spot investments that were paid for with European funding.

The region's love affair with continental funding started in 1994 when £700m of funding was allocated under the Objective 1 programme. In 2000 another £928m followed. Between 2007 and 2013 the North West is sharing another £700m, and Europe is set to agree to £450m for Merseyside to be spent between 2014 and 2020.

Objective 1 contributed funds to more than 1,802 projects between 2000 and 2008 - that is a whole lot of things that might would not have happened without the EU.

The investment in Merseyside has seen the country move from one of the poorest areas in Europe into a "transition region". That means its GDP is between 75% and 90% of the EU average.

Cllr Flo Clucas, former deputy leader of Liverpool council and an expert on Europe, in 2009 said: "In 1994, something wonderful happened, we were given Objective 1 status.

"If we had not had it, my city would have gone into a decline and we would never have recovered."

In the same year Phil Woolas, former North West minister, predicted Merseyside's population would have plummeted by up to 20%.

"The big point of Objective 1 is actually what would it have been like if we had not got it," he said.

"My guess is that it would have been pretty disastrous, and Merseyside would not be in the position it is in today.

"The population would probably have been 10% to 20% less than it is.

"Investment would have probably been half what it is, and the city would have been written off. Because it lost confidence in the 1980s, people had lost confidence in it.

"Objective 1 has meant that we have been able to get money from right across the European Union to create a prosperous trading partner."

Critics of the EU will point out that the UK puts far more into the EU than it takes out.

But do you really think any UK government would have handed over quite so much money to regions like Merseyside to spend on its own priorities?

 

Edited April 22, 2016 by Matt

[MikeO]

Thought this was interesting...

 

 

Down here also, many other examples all over the country I'm sure...

 

https://new.devon.gov.uk/economy/funding-and-research/european-issues

[MikeO]

Actually Steve it looks like someone beat you to it on this...

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/112142

 

Already got the 10,000 sigs needed for the government to respond; appears that the rules will be changing but not in time for the upcoming "in/out".

 

"The franchise for the EU referendum is based on the franchise for Parliamentary elections, with the addition of Members of the House of Lords; and Commonwealth and Irish citizens who can vote at European Parliamentary elections in Gibraltar.

Both the 1975 EEC referendum and 2011 Alternative Vote referendum were based on the UK Parliamentary franchise. The franchise is also similar to that set for the referendum lock on transfers of power from the UK to the EU required under the European Union Act 2011.

The UK Parliamentary franchise includes British citizens overseas who were registered to vote in the UK in the last 15 years. This means that many British expats will be able to participate in the referendum. The Government is committed to scrapping the time limit on voting from overseas at parliamentary elections, and intends to bring forward an Overseas Electors Bill to achieve this. This will need to be debated and approved by Parliament before it can become law, and it is highly unlikely this will be in time for the EU referendum.

The European Union Referendum Bill received Royal Assent on 17 December 2015 and is now an Act of Parliament. The question of the franchise was debated in Parliament during the passage of the Bill and this approach was agreed by both the House of Commons and the House of Lords."

Foreign and Commonwealth Office

[rubecula]

I hate the idea of not having a democratically elected governing body, that can be held accountable by the people. But not happy to leave Europe either.

 

I suppose you pays your money and take your choice really eh?

[Cornish Steve]

 

Actually Steve it looks like someone beat you to it on this...

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/112142

 

Already got the 10,000 sigs needed for the government to respond; appears that the rules will be changing but not in time for the upcoming "in/out".

 

"The franchise for the EU referendum is based on the franchise for Parliamentary elections, with the addition of Members of the House of Lords; and Commonwealth and Irish citizens who can vote at European Parliamentary elections in Gibraltar.

Both the 1975 EEC referendum and 2011 Alternative Vote referendum were based on the UK Parliamentary franchise. The franchise is also similar to that set for the referendum lock on transfers of power from the UK to the EU required under the European Union Act 2011.

The UK Parliamentary franchise includes British citizens overseas who were registered to vote in the UK in the last 15 years. This means that many British expats will be able to participate in the referendum. The Government is committed to scrapping the time limit on voting from overseas at parliamentary elections, and intends to bring forward an Overseas Electors Bill to achieve this. This will need to be debated and approved by Parliament before it can become law, and it is highly unlikely this will be in time for the EU referendum.

The European Union Referendum Bill received Royal Assent on 17 December 2015 and is now an Act of Parliament. The question of the franchise was debated in Parliament during the passage of the Bill and this approach was agreed by both the House of Commons and the House of Lords."

Foreign and Commonwealth Office

 

 

Thanks, Mike, and that's good news. What's funny is that the government has approved my petition anyway, maybe because it's more broad in scope.

 

Maybe I can encourage everyone to vote for it anyway and pass it along/share with others who may be interested. Thank you!

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/128353

[MikeO]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36159009