Shy_Talk

Koeman is having to cut the decayed flesh from this Everton body, the poison that fraudo infected the squad with is not easily healed, we have good players that have been undermined in their respective games by the conman, instilling new belief, restructuring confidence, and having the squad enjoy playing again is no overnight job. Some of the players look shot, some will never regain their best performances, the scorched earth policy of the last regime is almost total and quite simply put Koeman is a godsend for having us top half and slowly turning the squad around.
 
Thank the lord the youth setup produced a few lads fraudo didn't brainwash, that we've made it to another window and are shuffling players in as well as out, so what if this season is a write-off, it was always going to be that way because of the paid-off-prick.
 
Theres quite a lot of this view (on here but elsewhere too) that Koeman hasn't changed all that much, well we aint shipping goals like we used too and have lost once in the league at Goodison. That's not job done, but by fuck its a start,the only realistic start that could have been made.
 
It's quite out of order laying into Koeman this early, so when it happens i'mgoing to be only too happy to callout fraudo time and again. As Koeman rights the many wrongs in the side, the calls of failed improvements and passionless displays will die back. It's an awful shame more weren't calling out fraudo as early as they are Koeman now, we definitely would not have had to take so many steps backwards to stop the rot before we can start to move forward.
 
I never thought my fellow Evertonians would end up demanding success instantly like so many know-nothing tit-heads that infest so many other clubs, we've come through a massive illness and the healing is still happening, bad medicine or not alls we can do is take it for now and reassess come the summer.

I agree Pad, me and my mate would be sat back in our seats. If I'm sitting back I'm not being entertained. Edge of the seat is where I want to be. Didn't get that in year two and three from Roberto.
I think Koeman will have us playing at a higher tempo and with more aggression, getting the crowd up.
The Arsenal game was the first time I felt that for a couple of years.

Steve, the football was just dreadful. Everyone has a right to like and dislike whatever they see, I accept that but what we witnessed mostly during Martinez was dull tip tap football that was awful to watch.
 
And people are moaning about Koemans brand.

I'd argue that during season two and three of Martinez' reign we were not entertaining for the most part to be honest. First season, yes, entertaining in the extreme. I loved going to Goodison, even if we didn't win I'd know that most games we'd play open, expansive football and have a good crack at it. But after that? Goodison became a morgue, and not only because we weren't winning - the football was sterile, it was slow, pedestrian and mind-numbing to watch. I'd dread going to watch us, there was more talking amongst the fans than I've ever heard before because people were just not interested in watching the football in front of them.

If you think beating Stoke 3-2 with 8 minutes to go then getting beat 4-3 or Bournemouth 2-0 and 3-1 and drawing 3-3, Chelsea, getting hammered by the likes of Sunderland, finishing 11th 2 seasons running and having our worst home record ever despite having nowhere near our worst squad ever is entertaining football then that's yur right but don't be shocked when people call it out as totally unacceptable.
 
It's not extremism or passion talking it's knowing thatthat isn't anywhere near acceptable for our football club.

Good luck to him. Not a player we need as we try to push on up the table.
 
I tend to think that TC has been a victim of his own versatility. Gets used in all different positions and never really gets to settle into a role. When I watch him, I sometimes think 'if Barkley had his footballing brain, he'd be much better'. What I mean by this, is that TC can 'see' the game. He pings the ball around effortlessly, from all angles, and does it pretty quickly.
 
Another player who gets an undeserving amount of stick.
 
Good luck to him. I hope he finds a permanent role.

funny player this lad.... I watched him for Man United before Kevin Davies did him and he looked brilliant. Never got the same form for them again after that injury.
 
Then he came to us and was brilliant till Eric Dier did a poor tackle on him and he again never looked the same since.
 
Probably be a good player for Watford, seems a decent lad so I wish him all the best.

Martinez had total and utter say so and control over transfers. He was the one who said yay or nay Steve, he'll of been told by his scouts about Niasse but they wont have made the decision Martinez will.

yes. Yes you are.

I think you missed the pun there MC...going 'toe to toe'...as in, Hayes dodgy little pinky!!!

Wonder if the recent addition(s) might signal his eventual move up to Celtic. We've made do with blooding Davies recently in his prolonged absence, he continues to pick country before club, and it would bookend the former regime if he, Robles and Kone were shipped out wholesale to underline just how amateur and fraudulent the manager that relegated them at Wigan was.
 
Granted, fresh legs and options from the bench would be markedly welcomed, but we wont get a fee for Barry, Davies is ours to run the rule over, I've just pointed out elsewhere that theres Barkley to fit in, so McCarthy seems a viable option to allow to be sold to recoup a few quid.

Indeed, and quite adept at the dark arts on pitch. Happy to throw a crunch in, wind up someone on a yellow card, buy a freekick, and remind the snides in the opponents ranks that they kick Ross or Gerard that he'll happy kick them and get away with it. Always gave his upmost, did so with a smile, and active in his own right with charity in the community. Proud he was a blue. Still a toffee at heart.

If he was then I would buy him.
 
Lets get some "real clarity" on Naismith - if his name was Stefano Naisarrelli from Naples then opinion would be far different.
 
The lad was absolutely brilliant for us in so many ways. A fantastic one on one finisher, intelligent player, remarkable in the air for a lad of 5ft 9, and he got stuck in.
 
Unfortunately wasn't the most athletically gifted or technically great. He lacked power in his shooting and I think 2 knee injuries took his best away from him. He knew what he needed to do but sometimes couldn't pull it off.
 
One of my favourite players of recent years for his attitude alone.

Was about to post that theres some ST holders I know that can't be arsed with this one, the twattenburg involvement may push a few more to the brink. (Reason for avoiding is because of the atmosphere of depression that all facets of following the club have fallen into. pre game travel,inside, then the boozer after is all moaning)

No, he buggered my club and got paid off for the crime of it. Besides the slow healing process it would help a lot if some of the support that backed him during his nefarious deed could hold their hands up, admit they got it very wrong and pledge never to let such a tenth rate conman diddle them again.

Bit harsh, we've paid some saint £11.25million for the dogs dinner of a job he did to be discontinued, which puts Koeman's £6mill (a year) to leave his happy side (that had euro games to play) and undo aforementioned dogs dinner into context.

There isnt another Manager who we realistically could have brought in that would have done a better job! DeBoer was another Martinez, he was garbage in the Dutch League then failed in Italy. The likes of Eddie Howe and Sean Dyche may be great managers at their level but they could never attract the players we need to move forward! and with managers like that we would forever be 'little old Everton'.
 
Mourinho is only in 6th Place with UTD and look who they brought in.
 
Some people may not like Koeman because he isnt 'Everton' who cares! we havent won anything for over 2 decades! Moyes did a great job at turning us from a relegation battling side to a top 8 team, then Martinez was on his way to destryoying all that hard work. He turned a hard working team with a 'never quit' attitude into a bunch of tarts that were fine with losing providing we had good possesion.
 
If we want this Club to move forward then Koeman is the man to do it, this isnt a refurb its a Rebuild and we need a manager that can attract players and wont stand for any BS. It was great to hear him criticising the board over transfers instead of a manager saying how great Bill Kenwright is and how we have a small budget compared to other teams!
 
You cant judge a manager this early unless he is failing miserably, Koeman isnt, we are 7th with a poor and ageing team.

And what poor bleeder is carrying them into that?

But he had a lovely smile though, and he spoke with such warmth and positivity, top class dresser, always the first to get a round in, and Wigan supporters were gutted to lose such a high caliber manager, players prepared to run through walls to get away from him I mean for him, and some of the most beautiful football ever played outside of the dreams of Pele, all hail Sir Roberto Martinez PHD - the scientist of football and what a pleasure it was to have been associated with such a true gent, kind soul, and hot disco boogier to ever walk on water.
 
FFS!

Mit's barely any better, the board was told Mata, Witsel, Koulibaly We ended up with Williams, Gana and Bollasie, the whole place was rotten to the core, there was no confidence, no one was happy the manager had lost the players.  
Nobody is going to come in and change that in half a season, nobody. Also he is implementing a completely new style of play and trying to make us less soft . It wont happen over night!
 
Look at Martinez first season where he had Moyes well drilled, top 6 regular side and he was a revelation with it. Why? Because it wasn't his team, then ater season 1 his way of doing things started to take hold and we went down hill rapidly.
 
Now look at what Koeman inheritted, an 11th place finishing team who were quite frankly a shambles devoid of any confidence or idea of what they were as a team.
 
It's going to take more than half a season to fix the mess. There is no quick fix, Martinez destroyed us.

Trying to be fair, we've lost once in the league at home this season (and that was a last kick of the match in the fifth minute of extra time effort that had spooned back off the post) I seriously didn't like it but saw enough first half to see more in 45 minutes of a derby than I had for some years.
 
All the aspects that we want to see in the players like fight, passion, heart, guts, effort, pride, never-say-die, has been coached/managed out of them over two and a half seasons of 'phenomenal'. The colossal bottle job of having fourth place in our own hands at the run in in that first season cost the club,the support,the players more dearly than ever could have been calculated. That some of the club furniture has been let go (Osman and Hibbert) has an effect day to day, on the bench, in the dressing room,even on the physio table. We don't have a set of lads that have come through together and won the fa youth cup that all have that team bond, it's something over the years we've taken for granted and now it's gone.
 
Koeman has to either instill the will and belief into his side, or invest wisely in players that already have it that hasn't been destroyed.
 
To back this up I'd like someone at the club to be suggesting to Mirallas and Lukaku that maybe any Belgian friendlies are a waste of time and slight injuries might occur temporarily whenever the thief of £11.25million comes a calling.
 
Give me eleven nasty players instead of eleven nice guys that take losses as lightly as our former phenomenon manager did.

I should add to that we've missed Besic, McCarthy and Bolassie throughout the season weakening and already weak squad further. It doesn't leave a lot at all.

1st half vs Spurs filled me with optimism but still then Koeman said we weren't fit enough. It's clear he didn't get his targets in to play this way in the summer. I think he's alluding to he's wanted Schneiderlin since the summer so why hasn't it been done yet? We should be doing better performance wise but I don't think he can be compared to Klopp as he inherited Coutinho, Lallana, Firminho, Sturridge, etc. in simple terms our squad isn't good enough - RS have spent hundreds of millions on that squad over a sustained period - how Moyes closed that gap was quite incredible really. On the Moyes comparison - the expectations were so low when he came and the Prem was very different to what it is now with sustained investment from the current top 6. Regarding Martinez - he had the solid foundations Moyes built and was able to add the missing piece in Lukaku (obviously Barry and McCarthy were top signings too).
 
I think Koeman's comments yesterday were aimed at player recruitment - we didn't get it right in the summer and I think he's putting a message out that we'll continue like this without strengthening.
 
I can completely see why people are frustrated/doubting Koeman but to all those people do you honestly think this squad is anywhere good enough?
 
Personally I think we need to upgrade the following...
 
Stek/Joel
Jags/Mori/Oviedo
Gibson/Cleverley/Geri/Lennon
Kone/Niasse
 
I'd sell all bar the keepers and would only keep Stek as back-up and loan Joel out. That's a very damning assessment on how weak our squad is - considering many of these are 1st teamers show how big a job Koeman has got.

I'm aiming squarely at the 'give him time' apologists that refused to see the planet sized problem 18 months in.
 
So far as Koeman goes, it's the same with/for everyone, it is far easier to destroy than it is to create. The harm done by mr phenomenon is so entrenched now that major surgery wont remove the full extent of the disease and decay. We are on a long term healing journey, convalescing, there will be periods where all will seem lost and theres no way back, but like a long term injury to a player, we need to have a bit of faith, not let our thinking be invaded by the immediate darkness and (re)discover that inner strength that belief and fight to come good through the other side.
 
It didn't take 6 months to poison us and to be overwhelmed with despair, it was a near full three seasons of bad bad medicine. There are no quick fixes, no easy choices, the shackles we got used to that have scarred us so have to eventually heal and be forgotten (though never forgiven) and a new era will dawn.
 
I suspect Koeman didn't realise just how big a task he was signing up for nor just how long it would likely take. I hope he has the heart and fight for the job that he is so clearly expecting from his charges to show game on game.
 
Edit: PS Koeman isn't telling lies before or after games in interviews where someone used to be laughing and joking with the interviewers whilst spewing forth such utter tripe he should have been carted away for being a biohazard.

And thats an utter joke as well. He lied to the support, he lied to his players and he lied to himself. He took a very large chance on some no hoper from the Ukraine league, didn't have the decency to admit his mistake, continued with his stupidity, eventually got sacked then came back at the club that had offered him so much whilst actually delivering a downward spiral of despair and took £11.25 million he hadn't come close to earning from our club.
 
Compare, Moyes took Rooney and his cronies to court over allegations in whichever of his books he'd had written, Moyes won and gave his damages to the former players foundation.
 
Decent and honourable remember.
 
Although I didn't like the bad medicine of 'knife to a gunfight' stuff Moyes talked, the chap that took over from him repeated and maintained that there was a 'great philosophy' to our losing play, that we showed 'marvellous intensity' in games we'd lost from winning positions, that the 'spirit and belief' was there in abundance as he oversaw the worst home league record in our entire history.
 
The apologists point to a couple of semi finals, now iirc we should have shut City down at Goodison (first leg) but the lack of concentration and stand-off nature of our tactics let them into a game that we could and should have sewn up. A 2-0 lead going to their place was a much different proposition. Though it was for the best because he soiled his pants every time he faced the RS (bar that first derby with something like Moyes' defence). Which brings me neatly onto the second semi final. Our manager after Moyes had allowed a penalty taker problem to creep into the side, we'd had the issue with Mirallas, and then some pushing and shoving between Lukaku as well, so in a game where our captain hand balls a certain goal off the line that isn'tpunished by either penalty, red card or indeed the scoring, in a game where we got a penalty that was then missed, that we'd got in at HT only a goal down,everything except the last kick of the ball went our way, but, the lack of concentration and stand-off nature of our tactics let them win through.
 
clown-shoes is and was a weak minded amateur, full of good intentions but sadly living in a dream world of his own making, where every negative is spun as a positive, where no mistakes are ever even remotely connected to him, quite simply one of if not the worst manager in our illustrious history. Hammer Walter for 'disappointing' but at least he called it as dire as it was, Royle took the fight to the press - no more mister nice guy to the extent that he threw them out of Bellefield. Koeman's blunt honesty is rather jarring, and some of his selections and subs are mind boggling, but at least he isn't relying on not-past-it-cos-they-never-had-it types like Alcaraz, and Kone, (Walker was a short lived nightmare that gifted us Joe) (and Kendall gets a pass for greatness delivered)
 
Make all the excuses you need about the previous regime, it says a lot that the clubs end of season awards had to be altered because of the eventual bad feeling towards the 'man' doing the damage, the malice I hold for him is based on borderline criminal signings, the worst home record ever delivered, and the audacity to come and get his pound of flesh after the axe had fallen. A disgrace of a so called man, in fact an utter worm. For shame!