SpartyBlue

I’m not sure who the available wingers are so I can’t answer that. I think it would only damage the club if people are overly sentimental. I doubt the academy players would care. If you do really well you’ll be given a first team chance and then maybe you’ll get a big money move and become rich in the process. Seems like a decent message. He’s certainly worth more to us than other clubs which is why I’d only sell him for a ridiculous price. To me 40m is pretty ridiculous for what he is now. Particularly given our financial situation. But, as I’ve mentioned, I’d be surprised if we were offered that so it’s moot.

We do have a big physical DM on the team. Unfortunately his joints seem to be made of glass.

He’s all potential, very little end product right now. He’s attractive because he’s young and English and he has pace with a certain arrogance. But he’s not there defensively yet, he was terrible at crossing the ball last season, and he was very wasteful in the final 1/3. I would like him to stay here and improve on those things for us but if a club wants to pay the price for an excellent premier league winger in the hopes that Gordon can become that one day then I think it would be a good deal for us. A player like Deulofeu was more effective than what Gordon currently is in my opinion. Could beat a man with skill and had a very dangerous cross on him. He’s never even sold for half of the fee speculated on for Gordon. You can get a high quality winger and still have money to spare if you sold Gordon for that amount. I don’t expect he will go and I like his upside I just think don’t think we can turn down a crazy fee. I’m not convinced enough he will get to that level.

This season is it for him. It’s his chance at redemption. In the same way Iwobi was probably on his last chance this last season. In the same way that Gray was given an opportunity to restart his career. Fit, Lampard as coach, a team that needs a player like him and where he will get games. If he can even get back to 80% of his best he has the potential to be one of the best additions in recent years. All on him now.

It would be a complicated one. Gordon is not a 40m player right now. If we got that for him it’s an objectively great price. Maybe in a couple years he is worth that but personally I think he’s 20-25m at the moment. We are still a club in some financial difficulty. That 40m would go a long ways to rectifying that. Assuming the money is spent on players there would be every chance it improves us more than keeping Gordon would. I do understand the sentiment but the idea is to do what’s best for the longterm future of the club and you could make a very good case that getting something approaching 100m for Richie and Gordon does that. I think it’s harder to see when it’s a hypothetical. If we brought in Dennis and Broja and stuff had 40m to spend now it starts to look a lot different. All that said I don’t expect him to go as I don’t expect a club to actually bid 40m for him or us to sell him for less.

He’s a pacy and direct winger who does create problems. But let’s be honest, his crossing was awfully poor and most of the time he wasted his chances. He’s a bit of a headless chicken out there at times. Which isn’t terrible at his age. I’d rather see that then a player who lacks the ambition to make something happen. He just needs to learn to make better choices in the key moments. He also needs to continue to get physically stronger. He has time to do that but if he has the same season he did last year I’d start to get a little worried about what his ceiling is. Lot of pacy wingers in the world with little end product.

Keep progressing is what I said. You didn’t really address anything I said. He has pace and ambition and it was nice to see him carve out a first team role last year. As I mentioned, I like Gordon, always have. But is he a good defender right now for his position? Did he cross the ball well? Was he a good finisher and decision maker in the final 1/3? The answer to all of those, right now, is no. I do think he got worn down by his first full season of this intensity. I’m not saying he can’t get better, I’m just saying he does have to get better. He’s not nearly a 40m player yet, even with his age and the English premium. I don’t expect him to go. I hope we have the same conversation next year as it will mean he had a nice season for us.

My thoughts as well. I like Gordon. He has something to him but he does need to keep progressing. Better responsibility defensively, better crossing, better decision making in the final 1/3. That pace and ambition is hard to find and he has it but you need some of the rest as well.

Well that would still leave us 80m in theory. My point is just that at some point the price we get for a player makes us better than not selling, particularly in our current state.

Lots of folks tend to react emotionally to things like this without seeing the full picture. Let’s say we buy Dennis for 20m and sell Gordon for 40m. Does anyone really think Dennis + 20m isn’t a tremendous deal for someone like Gordon who, for his attributes, is a long way from being a finished product?

We were never getting a guy like VVD once Liverpool were in for them. With no particular affinity for either side why would he come to a side farther down the table where he’d earn much less longterm?

I’m not sure I get your reasoning here. He was only sold a few days ago. Until he’s sold we can only advance other deals so far since we don’t know when or if we will have those funds. Of course we have players in the queue as we do every single window. Whether we can sign them and how long a negotiation takes are separate issues. No reason to panic

Those aren’t the only scenarios though or the most likely. We’ve been linked to plenty of attacking players and Richarlison just left. Negotiations don’t often happen overnight. There is no chance we haven’t identified players. Whether we can afford them and whether they will come are different questions but there are some fairly credible reports on guys like Gallagher, Dennis, Broja etc.. patience.

This assumes the players we bring in can replace what Richie gave us at both ends. We’ve never adequately replaced Lukaku up front, as one example. What he’s gotten from Iwobi and the addition of players like Gray and Myko on a small budget give me some hope the club is doing a bit better at scouting and developing lately. We shall see.

I would guess they’d want to wear/debut those for some of the preseason games. I’ve quite liked our third kits the last several years. The yellow and blue was a particularly striking one I thought.

Fair points worth thinking about. I will say that Watford was effectively relegated with weeks to go so the motivation for their players had to be pretty low. I’m not sure even Richarlison would have run through walls for a side already going down who he was always going to leave. Perhaps that’s why Dennis is going to go for around 20m and not more. I’ve no real idea about his attitude or if he’s the right fit from a character standpoint. I do know we are going to have to take some chances given our situation. Hopefully we take the right ones.

You’d have to also account for whether he was in the pitch when those goals occurred. In any event that’s significantly less goals conceded in those games then our average last season.

Again though, several different managers have independently made the same decision about where Dom is effective. It’s not as if strikers who can shoot from distance or who can beat a player 1v1 don’t also get in the box for crosses or for free kicks. Dom just isn’t dangerous when he has the ball at his feet outside the box. Richie was. Lukaku was.Most of the best attackers in world football are. Eve. Guys like Gordon and Gray can make something happen with the ball at their feet. It is simply not DCL’s game. After 190 games and many more training sessions I choose not to believe that all of our managers are just blind to his skills in that area. He’s an effective but limited player. If he gets 15+ goals then it’s fine though. They can all be tap-ins

Thanks

Same thing could have been said of Richarlison except he was less productive and cost much more. We are in a position where we just aren’t going to find quality players without taking chances. They are going to be unproven, cast-offs, injury risks..something. We can’t afford the finished product. I don’t know if Dennis is the answer but he’s the type of guy we will be going for. Gray, Ali, Dennis all fit that type.

Strange to me. He came in without much fanfare but he had a great return for not having any league experience. What’s not much, 20m?

To connect this to the DCL debate, he has more goals this past season created on his own than Dominic does in his career for us. Powerful player. I’d be a little surprised if he goes for a price we can afford.

What? Rom scored goals and provided assists without service. Dom draws attention on free kicks and such but he is not more a nuisance than Rom who did the same but was also a player who could dominate a 1v1, which is the point of this discussion. Do you honestly believe Rom didn’t draw more attention from opposing managers and players than DCL? How soon we forget.

This is a bit chicken and the egg. We played to his feet more because Rom was much more capable of creating chances with the ball to his feet. His assist rate is also much higher than Dom’s for that reason. We don’t give Dom that chance as often because he doesn’t create opportunities for himself or others very much. He’s good for a little flick once in awhile as with that great Iwobi goal but in general he’s not an accomplished passer. This is why I thought it was silly to say Dom is better 1 v 1 than Richie. Certainly the team/ managers didn’t think so. We were always trying to play to Richie’s feet so he can drive at the defense, cut in, play someone else in etc.. We don’t do that much with Dom because he’s isn’t a threat there . 9/10 times he’s just playing it backwards to someone else. Without service Rom can still be effective. Richie can still be effective. Dom cannot be. That limitation is always going to hold him back.

He’d be right at home. I can’t think of an attacker we had last year who wasn’t frustrating/wasteful.