carlmc25

Yes I wasn't very clear actually, last season we didn't let in that many goals, the problem was we hardly kept any clean sheets. I'd rather be thumped 7-0 then keep 6 clean sheets than let in a goal a game. The problem is the clean sheets, rather than the amount we are scoring. It's infuriating that we just can't seem to lock a game down, you always think we'll concede.

yeah it was Distin's fault, he just didn't jump until the ball was past him even though it literally skimmed his head and Agbonlahor was right behind him, very VERY poor defending. All he had to do was header it out and that was game won. He had another excellent game apart from that but once again he makes a very poor error, ever since he's come into the team we can't buy a clean sheet. I don't care how well he apparently is playing, the unit with him in it doesn't work (it didn't work with Heitinga either). Give Heitinga a go alongside Jagielka, I can't see how they can do any worse, be handy if Fellaini was back there as well rather than being nowhere in sight when Petrov is lining one up from 30 yards. Our goals against is the reason we had a poor season last year, the season we finished fourth was done on the back of a load of 1-0 wins, until we can keep clean sheets we'll be in for tough times. We will always find a way to score goals, especially now Cahill is back up front rather than the abysmal, lazy Beckford, we just need to keep some clean sheets.

Beckford's a donkey, be made up to see him go to be honest. Sad to see Arteta go, he's my favourite player even if he hasn't been at it for the past 12 months. Pity the Yak is going as well but Moyes just won't play him anyway.

another negative post from Hafnia, what a shocker...

But are we? I don't really look at the figures that much but I would assume if we wold say Fellain, Rodwell and Jags we'd probably be better off than when BK took over and still have a better team, so have we declined financially or are we simply more in monetary debt but much richer in assets? I thought the debt was something like £70m? that could be virtually wiped out by selling Jags, Fellaini, Arteta, Rodwell, Baines and still leave us with a far better team than when he took over wouldn't it? If BK hadn't backed Moyes would Moyes still be here, would we still be in the Premiership? if not, wouldn't we be in even bigger trouble? maybe BK's spending has actually put us in a healthier position as dropping to the Championship would cost us about £20m a year wouldn't it? All I know is I expect the professional businessmen running the club to sort it out as I assume they have a better idea than those on those board, with all due respect. Great post earlier Avinalaff, I'm like you, yes I love Everton but I'm also a realist and appreciate you can't win them all. I want us to win as much as anyone but at the end of the day, there's more important things to worry about! I'm actually more frustrated by performances like Saturday than the performance of the board, I know we may not be in the best financial position but we have a very good team and there is no excuse for the lack of desire and lack of urgency shown on Saturday - like the first half of last season. Moyes has built an excellent team but I am starting to feel he may have run out of ideas at Everton, he may just have gone stale. Hopefully he will turn it around again as he always has but the players need to start turning up.

I surely can't be the only one getting sick of your constant negative ranting. The only reason we are a laughing stock is not the board, it's for having some of the most miserable, fickle and depressing fans in the country who as soon as things aren't rosy turn on the players, turn on the manager, turn on the board at the drop of a hat. One minute Jags is brilliant, the next he's poor, one minute Arteta is a genius, the next he's a passenger, one minute Moyes is the saviour, the next he's a joker who hasn't got a clue on tactics, players etc. I still remember when we had Walter Smith (a truly awful manager) and fans would start booing after about 10 minutes if we weren't winning - pathetic. We're going into this season with the same team as last year (except Pienaar), last year everyone was flying thinking we would finish top 4 then a terrible start ruined us. This season everyone is acting all doom and gloom, why exactly? we have the same team who finished 7th after an absolutely disgraceful start and who never really played anywhere near their potential, plus we have Barkley coming through. EVERYONE, BK included, knows we need a new striker and a winger, everyone is disappointed we haven't got either but so what, get on with it and do what you're supposed to do 'support' the club. I read a lot of the BK interview with Blue Union, I appreciated his honesty yet can't help feel sorry for him and feel that if that sort of info gets out then we will be a laughing stock and it will put off potential investors. Sometimes keeping problems in house is a lot better than advertising them to the whole world. Anyway, I for one am sick of the negative crap being spouted by many on these boards. The lack of signings may be part of the reason so many fans are going into this season with such low expectations and negative outlook, but a major part of the reason is the snide comments and constant vitriol from many of our fans spreading their ridiculously ott negative views. get a grip. Pre season is over, the reality starts now and moaning about the team, the board etc isn't going to help anyone and won't improve any performances. What will help is our 'supporters' getting behind the team and roaring them to victory after victory, BK will be one of those. Trying to get rid of BK and getting an interim board would be an absolute disaster imo and lead to a huge downward spiral. I can't believe people will go on about others getting taken over like Blackburn, ffs they are a laughing stock, even amongst their own fans. Lost to Wolves, sold their best player for £16m and replaced him with some makeweight Scottish striker, rumours of takeovers all over the place. Why would anyone want that? Be careful what you wish for. Anyway, next time I log in will be to read Romey's winning match report. It's time for the moaners to shut up and stop disrupting the fans and the team, for everyone to get behind the club in it's tough times and maybe we'll rise out of it. COYB. always.

That is the problem and selling players must be a realistic possibility as it appears we have pushed our finances as far as we are willing to to back Moyes. The good thing is that we do have players we can sell that would wipe out a huge chunk of our debt without really having a massive impact on our team. The problem is that if BK hadn't have backed Moyes by raising money selling Bellefield etc, would Moyes still even be here or would he have become too frustrated and walked out, leaving us with someone like Allardyce and on a serious downward spiral. How BK keeps Moyes happy I'll never know but somehow he manages to keep Moyes loyal even with such serious financial constraints. A part of me thinks we should seriously look at wiping out the debt now and just have a couple of seasons of financial recovery where league positions may be impacted. Then when we are back on a solid footing we won't be paying all the interest fees out to the banks which will then free up money for transfers. I don't know what the answer is, I just like to trust in BK as I think he helped save us from one of my darkest times as an Evertonian, plus we've had a good time under Moyes (so close yet so far as well) and I just happen to like the guy. My worry is with all the stick he takes, he may just one day say 'sod this' and sell us to someone like Gaydamak and then Evertonians really will realise that the grass isn't always greener.

Kenwright obviously disagrees with you, it doesn't matter what the business model is, what matters is he knows Moyes gets it right more often than not so he backs him knowing that the players he buys will be solid investments and be worth more in the future. I tend to agree with Kenwright as he is a very successful businessman who runs his own company and must have made a few million in his time I would suspect, whereas you've done none of that. How you can question his business acumen is beyond me... at the end of the day, you ignore all my valid points about total assets we had when he took over and what we have now, anyone can recognise the absolutely huge gulf in the value of the squad, it's probably worth about £100m more than when he took over. I don't care about business theory I care about results and the squad and the performances and league positions have all improved beyond measure. It's just a pity he doesn't have the money to take us that next step but he'll always have my gratitude.

This quite frankly is nonsense. We may have youth players coming through so why do we need to spend £8m to replace Distin when we got him for nothing? You're just talking pie in the sky figures. The whole point of my argument (and I think Elstone's) is that we have put our money into the squad. I can't even remember what we sold Bellefield for and quite frankly who cares, we could sell Jagielka tomorrow and buy it back and have loose change I assume, how is it a big deal? Didn't we sell it for something like £7m, that bought us Arteta and Cahill and left us with loose change, we could sell those players for at least £15m tomorrow and so that leave us with more than a 100% return. Now do you get it? assets are assets. You say land doesn't go down in value, didn't you hear about the housing crash and economic crash? land isn't going for anything like it was so we sold at a good time. The fact is we could easily wipe out our debt and still field a team that would keep us in the premiership. When BK took over we were only just about keeping in the premiership and selling all of our players probably still wouldn't have wiped out the debt and would have left us with no players. So how exactly are we in a worse position? it's better to have assets on the pitch as they generate money for finishing higher in the league, attract sponsorship, draw crowds and attract tv coverage etc. The better players we have the higher our profile and the bigger the draw. No one else gives a toss whether we own our own training ground. They look at the worth of our assets, all of our assets.

Yes the assets are on the pitch, where do you want them - in the grounds, the stand etc and have us playing in the Championship? We have far more worth now than before, the assets on the pitch are substantial and would easily wipe out any debt we have, that was not true when BK took over when our team was a joke. So in reality, assets wise, we are in a far healthier position than when he took over. Sell Fellaini and Rodwell and there goes £30 - 40m off the debt and we still have a miles better team than we did when he took over. BK is in charge of the club, Moyes wouldn't have been so successful if BK hadn't put us further into debt to sanction the players and wages.

I agree but I also remember that before BK we had PJ who was an absolute joke. I remember the manager we had, the teams we had, the football we played when BK took over and look at us now, we've made huge strides forward. The frustration is we just don't have the money to take the next step and capitalise on all the work Moyes has done. It's annoying for everyone and I want us to find some dream buyer as much as anyone else, but I don't want us selling to any old guy who's motives are dubious at best. No business tells their fans/customers everything, they don't even tell their employees everything. I would hope they are too busy working and doing their best and don't have time to hold everyone's hands and keep everyone updated on every potential deal or transfer. They tell us when there is solid news.

Why would they tell you that? it's not in their best interests to announce the asking price and then let people try and haggle it down or open up a can of worms with some fans moaning it's not enough, some moaning it's too much etc etc. Virtually no business openly states the asking price, they haggle for the best deal, people want to see the books etc and the price will depend on assets on the pitch, performance, league position etc. You're not the owner, you're not the chairman, you're just a customer - would you expect Tesco to tell you what their asking price is as well? If you want to know the price, set up a mega successful business and try and buy us. As stated before in this topic, just because they won't state what they're asking doesn't mean it isn't for sale. Nearly everyone or every business has a price, we just need the right buyer and there aren't many around. I see there are rumours of the owners of Blackburn selling up and leaving them right in it... yet all Everton fans want is to be taken over, haven't you seen what has happened to some of the other clubs? we need investment, but the right investment. I like to believe that is what Bill is waiting for.

what about match days as a thread?! I know it's a separate section in the forum but I personally usually look forward most to reading Romey's matchday reports on a Monday, even if I don't always agree with them! Actually that reminds me, Romey, where's your report for Chelsea damn it?!

I'm probably in the minority but I'd like to see him here. He was an Everton fan growing up and I think it would be quite fitting for him to finish his career here and hopefully show he's still got something to offer. The obvious worry is he's going to be injured all the time and just cost us loads in wages but he seems a thoroughly decent guy, would possibly help shift some shirts and if he gets a chance he normally finishes it (unlike Beckford). I think he'd be worth the gamble, he used to be one of the best strikers in the world.

Cheers Bill, not on as much these days as tried to avoid talking about Everton this season as I was so thoroughly disappointed by our abysmal first half of the season (when I was hoping for top 4!). Hopefully I'll be on more next season and during the Summer, assuming we actually sign someone.

I hope this doesn't happen but I can see why Moyes would be attracted. If we don't give him any money to strengthen in the Summer then why wouldn't he go to Villa who apparently have cash to splash and have some decent players - Ashley Young in particular? Villa aren't a small club and they have money, BK needs to get Moyes some funds.

no chance, he's lazy and done just about ok. If we've made him number 9 then it's looking like a pretty depressing Summer ahead.

Young player - Coleman Most improved - Coleman Mod - MikeO/Bill Poster - DuncanMac Thread - ?

Jags for me - brilliant. Tie between he and Howard who was also excellent.

Surely he isn't our leading scorer? I thought Cahill was banging them in earlier in the season but I could be wrong...? Also, goals to minutes is a little misleading, he's hardly finished a game he's started because he keeps getting subbed due to his zero effort. He gets a fair few chances, that I will say for him, but he misses too many, he's got an attitude problem and he just isn't very good - personally he's a sub at best imo. Anichebe has gone backwards this year, although personally I thought he was VERY unlucky not to get a penalty on Saturday, if he hadn't slightly overrun the ball I think it was a stonewall. That was the type of play he is capable of - strength, direct running, power etc, unfortunately there hasn't been enough of it this season. That being said, he has every physical attribute a top class forward needs so personally I'd hang on to him and hope that he starts to deliver at some point as if he does, he'll be virtually unstoppable. I personally thought the mistake at the weekend was bringing Cahill on, he looked well off it to me and all he did was give the ball away. I'll get in on the Jags thing as well, I thought he was absolutely magnificent on Saturday, an absolutely Dave Watson-esque masterclass in defending, throwing himself in front of things, getting last ditch tackles in, he was brilliant and I always have total confidence when anything goes down his side. Distin had a good game but once again a poor error of judgement cost us. He messed up at least twice for their goal imo. A shout for Howard as well, another fantastic performance from - in my opinion, our best keeper since Southall. Apart from that we were pretty poor, for some unknown reason we looked tired and played it as if it was a pre season friendly (defence aside) particularly in the first half. How we missed someone like Arteta, someone who can actually show some composure and class. Rodwell was once again Captain Safe, decent shot which he nearly scored from but apart from that, anonymous as usual. Osman worked hard but unfortunately, against good teams he needs a little help and with the injuries we have, there is little help available from the rest of the midfielders we have available - except for possibly Coleman who was inexplicably quiet.

I think people quickly forget that many fans were getting on Arteta's back when he was out on the wing and it was when he went into the middle that he really showed what he could do and people started raving. This season hasn't been his best but I can't accept that Arteta isn't a better player than Fellaini (and Osman), he's our most important player when on form and Moyes needs to get him on form and then Everton will go places. He's a game winner and capable of magic and we don't have many (if any) of them. That being said, he used to be a brilliant winger as well so I've got no problem where he plays, as long as it's in an attacking position and not screening the defence like he's done this season. It's a shame he got injured as his performances had started to improve since Moyes told him to push forward. None of those players above are anywhere near as good as Gerrard, Fabregas (usually) or Ronaldo imo from what I've seen apart from possibly Modric. Wilshere looks like a good prospect, Huddlestone and Ramieres I don't particularly rate at all. I don't mind if we sell or keep Fellaini or Rodwell, I'd definitely sell if the money was right though. Rodwell has been totally overhyped from what he's shown so far and the more I see him the more disappointed I get. Fellaini has played well but if the money is right then he's replaceable for a reasonable price and will allow us to strengthen where we are really weak. It's not about selling Fellaini for the sake of it, if we had money to go and buy a winger and striker I'd definitely keep him, but we don't, and buying a winger and striker would help our team more than keeping Fellaini will (especially with such an able deputy as Neville). I'll stop going on about Fellaini now as people will really think I don't like him when I do, I just don't think we particularly need him and we could use the money elsewhere.

Agreed, although due to his slight lack of pace I do think being in the middle suits him more than out wide. I honestly think we have, on paper, the best central midfield in the premiership (no doubt someone will mention Chelsea and the eternally, unfathomably overrated Essien). For some reason Arteta and Fellaini hasn't worked this season, for the life of me I can't understand why but hopefully once Moyes pushes Arteta more forward we can have Arteta, Fellaini/Neville and Osman/Cahill in there and we should beat virtually anyone in the premiership, especially if we get a decent striker. We really need to press home our qualities now, this season has been a total disappointment for me, we are one of the top 4 teams in the premiership but it just never happened for us. Sell Rodwell (and possibly Fellaini) and get in a pacy, quality winger and a class act up front (if we sold both also a quality DM) and we're in business. No way can Arteta have such a poor season again. There are so few special players around now that Gerrard is getting past it, Fabregas isn't as interested etc that Arteta should really be able to shine once he hits form. I don't understand why it takes an injury crisis for Everton to get back to basics and get their mentality right.

With Fellaini we lost to Newcastle, drew with Wolves, lost to Villa and drew with Fulham - a total of two points. Without Fellaini we beat Newcastle, Wolves and Fulham and drew with Villa - 10 points so I don't really think that argument stands up. I don't think anyone can argue that over the past two seasons we have performed consistently better when Fellaini has been injured. When he's played, we've struggled and had to play catch up at the end of the season. I like the guy but I do think he's a little overrated and a luxury we don't really need, sell him for big £'s and get in someone who'll really make a difference - a quality pacy winger/striker.

I don't think last season's run did. Osman is a good player in CM, I'd have a trio of Neville, Arteta and either Osman or Cahill (depending who's up front). I don't know if anyone noticed but all Osman's best work yesterday came down the wing, it wasn't through the centre. He's a good player when his confidence is up, always has been, he works hard, tackles, can beat a man, can shoot and can create goals. Neville, Osman and Arteta are all mobile and Osman and Arteta are good on the ball and can beat a man/shoot. I just feel that Fellaini is too slow and that Neville is a very underrated DM.

Arteta was sitting back with Fellaini (if not deeper than Fellaini) so personally I think that's nonsense especially as no one could question Arteta's workrate. I'd be interested to know exactly what our win/loss ratio is with Fellaini in the team and without Fellaini in the team during these past two seasons. We are now the form team in the premiership, this coincided with Fellaini (and Arteta's injury) and last year we went on a massive unbeaten run around the time Fellaini got injured (and Arteta came back in). Coincidence - or evidence?