FanchesterCity

Yeah I understand not being able to afford to have it built but that why I semi-joked that you could have slummed it for a couple of years in order to be able to afford it. As you say though, the fans wouldn't have liked that at the time. But still, if you end up paying back 9m a year, and even if all of that 9m isn't going to LCC, let's say only 2m is. They are still quids in within 6 years! (if they paid 12m for it). That's a very quick return on LCC's investment. I don't think there's a problem with not owning it. City don't own their stadium. But if you're covering the entire cost of development in such a short time frame, it doesn't sound a very healthy deal, it sounds disproportionately in favour of LCC (although I do realise the initial deal wasn't with them). Obviously I'm not intimately acquainted with all the details, but at a superficial level it sounds akin to a payday loan deal! Everton get 2m quid cash in hand, urgently, and they're paying it back for years to come, many times over.

Surely most other clubs own their own facilities and thus at least they are maintaining their own asset and not somebody elses? Let's say you sold Finch Farm for 2m (to keep the maths simple) and it was redeveloped for 20m. That means it cost the owners 22m all in. Now you pay back 1m a year in rent AND 700K a month running costs? that's adding up to 9 million a year! that's just madness. The owners recover all their costs in under 3 years? surely that can't be right? You may as well have slummed if for a few years and just developed it yourself. Are you sure the running costs are 200K a week and not per month? (even per month it's shocking).

I keep thinking precisely the same... but then United are going to set a Prem League RECORD number of points. You can't argue with the evidence there... they've looked poor, they've had a poor European campaign etc, but you can't amass a record number of points and not be top notch! I don't think teams are worse, I think it's more competitive than ever.... different perspectives I suppose... it's just that record number of points flies in the face of your (and my) belief that teams haven't been too hot.

I've every sympathy for that view, but as an outsider, I think the blame solely lies with the board, and the failure to move Everton forward commercially, in line with rivals. It would be unfair to expect Everton to compete with United or Liverpool (no offence) but potentially it MIGHT have kept up with Arsenal and Spurs. City and Chelsea are exceptions, so unfair to expect Everton to win the lottery. There are numerous obstables that have blocked Everton's progress and by far the majority of them have had nothing to do with football per se. They've all been off the field activities. I've said it a million and one times, and will say it again... Everton... a top 5-7 supported club, fantastic crowds, Premier League stalwarts, lots of trophies, European experience... LOTS going for it. Since you've hardly spent much, it only begs the question... HOW the hell the club be hard up? If you'd been Leeds, or City, or Newcastle - you could point to silly spending... but not so Everton. Ergo, once can only really assume that a genuine 'fan' and thespian does NOT a 'canny businessman' make. Therein lies the real problem. It's never Moyes. The only fair criticism of Moyes (in my eyes) is that he's not asked the very same questions.... where's the money going? I'm not anti BK - I just think he's like many chairmen before him... he's a lover of the club, not the best guardian of its future nor the man to move it forward in line with other clubs. Standing still at Everton has meant you've fallen behind (still keeps you ahead of most, but it's not where you should be!)

You're all going to hate this but... and this is just as true of City and Spurs as it is of Everton... We as fans don't have the winning mentality. It's a chicken and egg scenario, but once you've gone a while without winning things, and your rivals have... there's just something inside us all that says "we know what's coming next... those jammy buggers are going to do us, AGAIN". And more often than not, they do. Call it arrogance on their part, but it gets them a long way. They always seem to believe that they'll snatch at least a draw and if they get that far, might as well go on and win it, whilst we get a lead and start expecting 'their comeback'. There's more to it than just the players on the pitch... I can have DEFINITELY sensed 'tension' at City when we're under the kosh. It's fear in the crowd, and it gets to the players too. Liverpool have won stuff, they've a habit of scraping cup wins.... like it or not, it's there in history to see (not that ALL their wins have been scrapes, but a fair few have). Success breeds success so they say, and therefore, lack of success breeds lack of success and the longer it goes on, the harder it gets to overcome it. Some 20 years after the formation of the Premier League, there are still very few teams who've won anything, and the ones who've won more than one trophy are incredibly rare (suggesting now and then, a team goes all the way as a one off). Hands on hearts, no bullshit, if you're 2-0 up against Liverpool and they pull it back to 2-1... what do you REALLY think is going to happen? Perhaps I'm wrong on this, but I think if you're honest with yourselves, you're just like us lot... 'those jammy buggers are gonna do us again'.

It looked like a genuine chance for Everton today, but it wasn't to be. Just finish the league above them - there's every chance they'll lose the final. I thought you gave them a real fright and fight, but in the end just undone by the 'uncertainty' of what to do with a 1-0 lead. For them, they had no choices to make, making it easier. It really COULD have gone either way, it just wasn't your day today. Not bad given 200m vs 50m.

Sarcasm? it's damn realistic. Next Everton manager? Roberto Martinez.

It happens to the best of teams too. You just get says when the 'winning mentality' isn't 100% there and your opponents have it (which is a pain in the arse, but the truth of the matter). Every player makes mistakes.... it's just sods law that Carroll misses sitters, then gets a winner, whilst a stalwart for Everton makes a mistake and it costs you. Surely to God, that Everton team WANTED to win something, wanted to get to Wembley.... it just can't be from lack of effort, just inexperience

It's not the Everton some older folks know - the world's changed. But, you're not in a total mess either. I have absolutely no desire to offend, but it seems Everton are stuck as 'top end of the mid table teams'. It just takes a LOT of money, or a once every 5 years type season to get into that top 6 area. It's just bloody hard, and that's the fact of the matter. Moyes has got sod all to spend, and to get those '10% better players' you have to spend 50% more (at least). It's easy to say "we'll never win anything with Moyes", but Arsenal haven't won anything for 5 years, they've been much better than Everton in recent years. Spurs have won one league cup and spent massively more than Everton. City have won one FA cup and spent fortune. If Moyes faultless? no... what manager is? Could someone do a better job?... possibly Is it a risk worth taking?... I don't think so. The difficulties in getting to be top 6 year in year out are immense, whilst the ease at which top clubs can find themselves in deep (e.g. Villa) should be a real warning. It will hurt like hell today. Just as it will hurt City losing the league to United, or Spurs being pipped by Arsenal. But Everton remain a top top club, struggling with the money mess of football, and have a solid manager at the helm. It simply isn't that bad.

He's been starting recently and done nothing. There's two ways to look at it really... 1) He genuinely isn't that good. Which is how it looks to City fans who see him properly (rather than MOTD highlights) or 2) There's already too many forward men at City and therefore he's instructed to just get the ball in the box for them to score. It could well be a combination of both, but still, he doesn't even get the ball in the box, but that MIGHT be that he's simply a small fish in a large pond at City and there's 5 other 'attacking' players on a pitch ahead of him, and most are better AND more assertive. Net result = he doesn't get a look in even when picked. But even when we've been under the kosh and 'all hands to the pump' mode, he's run about a lot trying to look busy, but done little. I think City are a hard team to come into and 'grow'. Everton would be much better in that respect, but still, I think he'd be found wanting at Everton too after 6 months.

He's been crap for us. That's not to say Moyes couldn't get more out of him. He started off well, lots of successful dribbles and coming inside - scored a fair few goals early on, but the last 18 months he's generally been dire. Pros - When confident, he's pretty quick (but not that quick), but can dribble fairly well... comes inside a lot and has a good left foot. Can play both wings Cons - Can't tackle... I mean really can't, so doesn't even try Work ethic leaves a lot to be desired Loses confidence quickly Rarely 'has a go' and opts to lay the ball off to someone else (usually back to midfield, or right back) Expects the ball to come to him - won't go and get the ball General consensus amongst the City fans I know is - sell him, not good enough, and without being patronising, I don't think he's good enough for Everton either. Probably a lower end of Prem quality, no more.

For almost their entire history they've been bigger than us... we just a few years here and there where we overshadowed them. In many respects similar to Liverpool / Everton - except with a much larger gulf. But yeah, it's not nice seeing them win again and again... and again. No denying it though... the best pub team this country's ever known. Makes me wonder what they might have achieved with some proper players.

Why's it all over?... Well, it's United and it's City. Enough said! They'll most likely win it at City too :-( Of course, anything is possible really, it's just most City fans are so used to being in the shadows, if anybody's going to ruin City's season it's United. They've done it too many time to us. But enough about us lot... I'm so excited for the Semi!!!... can't be bothered about the other semi, but this one's going to be a total cracker, I'm sure of it. I can't deny admiring Liverpool (of old) but I'll be cheering on Everton. I just think they probably deserve it more, and think any double from Liverpool this year would be totally flattering.

Aye it's all over, and fair play to United really. They are set to break the record for most points in the Prem... and yet most fans believe it's been a below par season (including me). Amazing season really for odd results. City have given it their best, and it just fell short at the end. Arsenal defied everybody's early expectations and Everton look like doing their usual... storming finish that would leave most supporters wondering what might have been had they started a bit better! Still unhappy at the refereeing shambles all season. It's affected the fates of many teams

Shocking decision at United... again. Well done Wigan for beating 12 men

Alan Davis wasn't particular tactful and I'd possibly argue he was bordering on offensive, or at least 'insensitive'. As a neutral, I think I can see both sides, and say it's a thin end of a wedge if you keep avoiding certain dates due to tragedies, BUT... heart of hearts... To anybody who heard those moments as they happened, and who still goes to games now, or worries about their kids at a match etc, then I have to say I have no problem with a club saying "you know what, in respect of those families and in memory of those that died - we will reserve this day". Be honest, if it was Everton (or whichever club you support, or worse still, a family member)... I think you'd be proud of your club for saying "NO". Liverpool have done some crazy stuff this last season, but I applaud them on this score. I'm no mad at those questioning their stance (I've done it too), but I can't really find fault in the stance either. I like to consider Hillsborough as a reminder to ALL fans of what can happen, and I hope fans never forget that. We all want to arrive home after a game.

I use 'The Liverpool Way' site - and they aren't so bad... of course there's a few morons as you'll find on any site, but it's not a bad board there. Not as rabid as RAWK. Really looking forward to the semi final... I just can't bear the thought of Liverpool doing a double this season. I've nothing against them, but a double would be totally flattering. It's between Everton and Spurs for me. Two teams that have been better than most would have expected, particular Everton given the financial constraints and loss of players. The VERY best of luck for the weekend. I suspect quite a few neutrals will be cheering you on.

It's not right... At the end of the day, appeals boards should 'do the right thing'. That QPR defender against Utd was shafted. So the ref got it wrong - so be it, but that lad should't suffer because of that (or QPR) Balotelli should be banned for his awful attempt to maim someone. I can JUST about cope with refs making some lousy decisions - the game's quick, it happens, but when folks KNOW a player has cheated with a blatant dive, or didn't commit a foul... it's just not right. If a 'wrong' can be righted in any way, it should be.

Good call on XTC (superb band, just under the radar of most), there's just not enough slots with '10'

Rush - Moving Pictures Dylan - Blood On The Tracks Meatloaf - Bat Out Of Hell Richard Thompson - Rumor and Sigh Elvis Costello - Armed Forces Beatles - Sgt Pepper The Who - Tommy The Police - Regatta De Blanc Coldplay - Parachutes Michael Jackson - Thriller A couple of those aren't necessarily to my taste, but you have to say "THAT is an album and a half for its genre' i.e. Thriller or Bat Out Of Hell.

haha @ pete Running as Mr Ed The Ball, Red Bum or Blackie Beauty?

Tricky one that - I think United have played on Munich anniversaries, but not 100% certain. I can sympathise with the view of making the day sacred, but it's a thin end of a wedge too. Bradford City could do similar, and United, and in future, other teams too... what then? eventually there's no available dates at all. I don't think it's insensitive to question if keeping the day sacred is the right choice - it's just a question and doesn't mean you think any less about what happened. It's only like a funeral where some folks will say "it's a sad sad occasion and we want sad music and sad faces, and the other half say he'd have wanted AC/DC playing and everybody to party" - people just work through stuff in different ways.

3.00 would have been far better and more sensible to give people time to travel down The pros and cons of Wembley are well documented, but the only place close to being enough capacity would be OT and then there's still a lot of fans would miss out. My own opinion is that Wembley should be for the final only, and go with the old scheme of things... play it at City or Villa But you know what REALLY troubles me?.... Hillsborough happened (in part) thanks to some lousy planning and questionable venue and yet, still, we think it's sensible to have two sets of fans travelling a long way, on the same route and in a hurry thanks to the early kick off... It should be a fantastic day for both fans, but the FA do nothing to ensure it.

Chiles used to be OK when he was a minor pundit, but now... complete dross. As for Keane... awful, just awful (and I'm not anti United, I think Neville's excellent). Anyway, of the four contenders, I'm supporting Everton. Liverpool doing a double would be a total travesty and only fuel the King hype, Chelsea have won enough recently. So between Spurs and Everton it's a close call, but would be nice to see a bit of success shared out, since Spud will get CL again I expect It's looking like a tough cup to predict this time round though. Come on Everton!

Chelsea? you are kidding right? Glasgow Rangers are like... a Red Star Belgrade, CSKA Sofia, Borussia Monchengladbach etc etc, not in the super elite, but a name that any fan will have heard of and consider a large club. They can't help the league they are in (like the aforementioned clubs) but they do have quite a following. No disrespect to Chelsea, but there's is a relatively recent rise in stature, 10 years ago they weren't on 'the stage' at all. That's not to say that recent fame is bad and old fame is good... just saying that over the course of history, Ranger (and Celtic) leave many clubs in their wake. As for not doing well in Europe - well no, they don't... they aren't such a good team. Big club, poor team it happens... just like Nottingham Forest were a relatively small club with a fantastic team in their hey day (and conquered Europe) Rangers is the first serious big name to get into major trouble, but how long (potentially) before it's a Liverpool, United, Everton etc? could happen to any of our clubs. I can't help but feel until a club truly DOES go under, folks keep thinking there's always a rescue package somewhere. Sooner or later, there won't be.