MikeO Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 Shit, make that twenty-one points . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 48-35 England with ten minutes left. Astonishing day whatever the outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 Don't know why England can't play every game like that instead of the turgid stuff they usually come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 I found this interesting: http://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/the-sportswriting-machine?mbid=nl_032815_Daily&CNDID=27288133&mbid=nl_032815_Daily&CNDID=27288133&spMailingID=7620298&spUserID=NDY2OTQzOTYyOTYS1&spJobID=642509742&spReportId=NjQyNTA5NzQyS0 Some publishers are using computer algorithms to write their sport result summaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32112666 It's not because you're black John, it's because you're crap. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32112666 It's not because you're black John, it's because you're crap. Same goes for Ince when he comes out with this crap. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 I hate that. Honestly. They do themselves no favours. Barnes was heckled (and his assistant manager) by ex team members, who called them 'dumb and dumber', after their training techniques consisted of the same drills, for the same types of players....wingers. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Starting to do my nut in this. Ince, Barnes, Houghton, Gullit, Tigana, etc etc all have had opportunities at pretty big clubs without even having proven themselves anywhere else. The you get the likes of Jason Roberts moaning about it - has he even taken his coaching badges? Because the last I heard on the Fantasy Football show was that he thought "nah too hard, I prefer talking about football" Imagine if Nigel Adkins was a balck manager - after him being sacked by Southampton there would have been allsorts of discrimination outcrys. The reality is, that football maangers if proven to be "adequate" will get a career in the merry go round. If they blow things in spectacular style then they don't - simple as that. Lets see what happens to Gus Poyet or Paulo DiCanio. I wonder if Dave Watson struggled to get back into management because of the colourt of his skin. I think that many people on the board at football clubs are probably boorish, bigotted, idiots, but do I think that they would not hire someone who could do a good job becuase of their skin colour??? No. Lowensda, Matt and MikeO 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 in nfl they have a rule called the rooney rule. every team that has a coaching vacancy (just the major spots, head coach, GM, etc) has to interview and give a chance to at least one minority. some teams have ended up hiring said person when they didn't even plan on it. pittsburgh steelers are that team. hired mike tomlin cause he killed the interview and he won a super bowl and has been there for maybe 10 years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 I do think that some changes are needed in this area. What's the percentage of black players? I'm guessing it's 15-20%. If so, why are just 5% of the managers black? And what about other minorities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 I thought someone once posted on here that proportionally to the amount of minorities doing badges there wasn't a disparity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 I do think that some changes are needed in this area. What's the percentage of black players? I'm guessing it's 15-20%. If so, why are just 5% of the managers black? And what about other minorities? You can't just be a manager. You need to take coaching badges. David James said when he took 2 courses most people on the course were white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 I hate the idea of quotas. It's against the idea of equality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 I hate the idea of quotas. It's against the idea of equality. When the number of black managers reflects the number of black players, then yes. To overcome years of looking over black managers, though, some kind of affirmative action is warranted. It's easy for those of us in the majority to think nothing is wrong. Looking at it from the point of view of a minority, though, can be quite revealing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 in nfl they have a rule called the rooney rule. every team that has a coaching vacancy (just the major spots, head coach, GM, etc) has to interview and give a chance to at least one minority. some teams have ended up hiring said person when they didn't even plan on it. pittsburgh steelers are that team. hired mike tomlin cause he killed the interview and he won a super bowl and has been there for maybe 10 years now. So are you suggesting (as an example) that had it not been for the Rooney rule Pittsburg wouldn't have interviewed Tomlin because he was black? Because unless you are then the rule is pointless, or at best toothless.. Also, if a potential employer in any workplace who's racist was forced to interview a quota of minorities he'd just interview them and give the job to the best white guy surely? Positive discrimination is still discrimination and I don't agree with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 When the number of black managers reflects the number of black players, then yes. To overcome years of looking over black managers, though, some kind of affirmative action is warranted. It's easy for those of us in the majority to think nothing is wrong. Looking at it from the point of view of a minority, though, can be quite revealing. Race, creed, sex. I don't acre about anything other than the best candidate for the job. The Rooney rule, as I understand it, is hypocrisy in motion. You cannot enforce equality, you educate. These rules are attempts at short term fixes for a much, much larger problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Race, creed, sex. I don't acre about anything other than the best candidate for the job. The Rooney rule, as I understand it, is hypocrisy in motion. You cannot enforce equality, you educate. These rules are attempts at short term fixes for a much, much larger problem. Wonderful sentiment, but history reveals it don't work. To remedy past discrimination, affirmative action is generally needed - no matter what the sphere of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 So are you suggesting (as an example) that had it not been for the Rooney rule Pittsburg wouldn't have interviewed Tomlin because he was black? Because unless you are then the rule is pointless, or at best toothless.. Also, if a potential employer in any workplace who's racist was forced to interview a quota of minorities he'd just interview them and give the job to the best white guy surely? Positive discrimination is still discrimination and I don't agree with it. Right that's the point they had a white guy before and there were marquee coaches open that were a shoe in for the job. Then he came along and blew them out of the water and it was a surprise hiring but worked out. Difference here is the vast majority of nfl players are black so there are a ton more coaches. Also a ton of America is black, I think England is not like that. I agree it doesn't solve anything but it can help to get people in interviews that would never be given the chance since they're not part of the old boys club. The hire the best man argument is all good, but they won't hire black people because they don't think they're the best man. Racism is still alive and well in the world and although people say it's not and try and be above it, a lot of people don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 The hire the best man argument is all good, but they won't hire black people because they don't think they're the best man. Racism is still alive and well in the world and although people say it's not and try and be above it, a lot of people don't. The point that Mike's making, though, is that you can force them to interview a black candidate but if they really are racist then it won't make any difference whatsoever because they'll just hire a white candidate anyway, They still won't think the black man is the best man for the job. Like Matt says; the only way to solve a problem like this is to educate and change people's thinking, because without that change you can try and force things all you like but nothing will happen. It might even make people even more determined not to hire a black manager. I'm not entirely convinced there's as big a problem in terms of coaching positions as is being made out anyway. It's a fact that there are less black qualified coaches/managers, so it stands to reason that there will be less of them in a job doesn't it? Until there are more of them getting qualified and THEN being turned down for jobs in favour of white people who are clearly a worse candidate then the arguments of Barnes et al are pretty baseless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 The Rooney rule is just an ill thought way of trying to make amends for history. I get the need to ensure that discrimination is analysed - but i'm sorry I just don't buy it. The reality is that most people in sport are money/success motivated - way above any political/social motivations. A manager like Alex Ferguson has allowed some players to breach rules "when" he knows that their value on the pitch is worth more than his authority (Cantona, Rooney, Keane) - he made sure he got his revenge at some stage but he knows that what they do on the pitch is worth more than his ego - or at least he balances it out. Any lesser player would be thrown out the club. Does anyone honestly believe that even the most bigotted chairman who puts £60m into the club will ignore the credentials of a black manager who has the potential to turn his £60m into £200m from buying the right players and getting the right results? Chris Houghton at present is the best non white football manager IMO - and for me he is among the likes of pardew, allardyce, etc as decent but not amazing. He is on his 4th managers job, he gets employed. I think if many black candidates spend time getting their badges etc etc and then apply for jobs and then look at the success ratios, till then its all noise. I hate discrimination but fear the consequences of positive discrimination. Intelligence is required here. Romey 1878 and MikeO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 could it be that they don't make good managers. ...or good pilots or good doctors or good professors or good accountants or... After all, these blacks just aren't as smart or gifted or hard-working as we white Anglo-Saxon Protestants. As for female referees, they just can't understand that pesky offside rule; maybe they need to stay put in the kitchen. And the stereotypes and the discrimination continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 could it be that they don't make good managers. Why would a black man not make a good manager??? Is there a difference in the DNA that makes using their brain more troublesome? Awful comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 you and a couple of other posters have made a meal of my comment it was NOT meant to be RACIST. Can you not see thought that the context in which you posted it, quoting Steve's post on blacks and minorities, that by saying "could it be that they don't make good managers" you are most definitely putting across the suggestion that "they" are somehow different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) Wonderful sentiment, but history reveals it don't work. To remedy past discrimination, affirmative action is generally needed - no matter what the sphere of life.History is in the past, so don't write it off for the future. Enforcing equality is a contradiction in terms and will only make things worse. Edit - for the record, pretty sure Patto misquoted and was referring to the numpty managers not being good enough rather than it being a slight to race Edited April 2, 2015 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 History is in the past, so don't write it off for the future. Enforcing equality is a contradiction in terms and will only make things worse. Edit - for the record, pretty sure Patto misquoted and was referring to the numpty managers not being good enough rather than it being a slight to race Yes, I think you are right. In that case, I apologize to Patto for misinterpeting his comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 Jumping on the bandwagon? In the Telegraph Sport today there is an article quoting Chris Ramsey, currently managing QPR, that if he is sacked he will struggle to get another job because he is black. Puts QPR in a difficult position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 If Chris Ramsey doesn't get another job it's because he has done nothing at QPR, if anything I think the team has gone backwards. The same with Barnes, he said in his interview he hasn't had jobs because of his colour, I guess it wasn't because he did an awful job at Celtic and Tranmere? Who would touch him after that? Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Looks like Blatter will win the election - the Asian and African bodies will all be voting for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Looks like Blatter will win the election - the Asian and African bodies will all be voting for him. must have given out a lot of money then. isn't prince ali from the asian federation?? what a crook, i really hope he doesn't win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 A ten day contract and sixteen seconds of game time . http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/basketball/32214585 What's that about then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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