Shukes Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Hi All. Just like to say hello to you all. I have been reading this forum for a long time now but only just signed up as i feel i need to get a few things out. Great read i have to say! What is happening to us all? How fast we have all turned on people we labelled as hero's not so long ago! Lets talk David moyes. A manager that signed a new contract not so long ago and most of us all breathed a sigh of relief. I know i did. here is a manager that is talked about in high circles. he looks like he will have a succesful career ahead of him. Now most people here just seem to critisize him and want him out? is it all Dm's fault? is he known in the football world for making awful transfer mistakes? hmmm from what i can see he has been known for making great buys...Timmy, Arteta, Pienaar, Howard, coleman, Drenthe, Donovan, Jags, Distin, and yes Neville...... Neville you say? yes thats right the guy who plays with his heart on his sleeve and was a revelation for us not so long ago. and now we have turned on him too...so sad. There are some i agree with. Saha does not look like he is even trying...drop him and let the other guys get a chance. they cannot do any worse. But timmy and neville...i agree they are playing shit! but they are going through a patch of bad form, they are still trying and you can see by thier faces that they care about our state as much as we do. BK. The guy has not enough money to keep us going....thats a fact! is it his fault? of course not. Should he sell? of course he should. Should he sell to the clowns that brought Blackburn? if he does then even i will be here complaining. But he is doing what he can with limited resources. Come on guys/girls! The reason i love this club so much is that we are a football club not a bunch of money grabbing glory hunters. I love us for our passion and out desire to beat the odds. We are the beloved underdogs and always will be. lets get behind our club and support them. Lets get back to what made us great, The peoples club! fans that supported us at the bottom when we were nearly relegated last day of the season...you all remember barry horne dont you! i was there crying! we got behind our team and helped them.Lets do that again. I am not trying to offend anyone and do respect others opinions. I just dont agree with the critism that TC, GN, DM and BK recieve. It's just not justified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Nice first post Shukes....agree with much of it. Welcome to the site . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Hi All. Just like to say hello to you all. I have been reading this forum for a long time now but only just signed up as i feel i need to get a few things out. Great read i have to say! What is happening to us all? How fast we have all turned on people we labelled as hero's not so long ago! Lets talk David moyes. A manager that signed a new contract not so long ago and most of us all breathed a sigh of relief. I know i did. here is a manager that is talked about in high circles. he looks like he will have a succesful career ahead of him. Now most people here just seem to critisize him and want him out? is it all Dm's fault? is he known in the football world for making awful transfer mistakes? hmmm from what i can see he has been known for making great buys...Timmy, Arteta, Pienaar, Howard, coleman, Drenthe, Donovan, Jags, Distin, and yes Neville...... Neville you say? yes thats right the guy who plays with his heart on his sleeve and was a revelation for us not so long ago. and now we have turned on him too...so sad. There are some i agree with. Saha does not look like he is even trying...drop him and let the other guys get a chance. they cannot do any worse. But timmy and neville...i agree they are playing shit! but they are going through a patch of bad form, they are still trying and you can see by thier faces that they care about our state as much as we do. BK. The guy has not enough money to keep us going....thats a fact! is it his fault? of course not. Should he sell? of course he should. Should he sell to the clowns that brought Blackburn? if he does then even i will be here complaining. But he is doing what he can with limited resources. Come on guys/girls! The reason i love this club so much is that we are a football club not a bunch of money grabbing glory hunters. I love us for our passion and out desire to beat the odds. We are the beloved underdogs and always will be. lets get behind our club and support them. Lets get back to what made us great, The peoples club! fans that supported us at the bottom when we were nearly relegated last day of the season...you all remember barry horne dont you! i was there crying! we got behind our team and helped them.Lets do that again. I am not trying to offend anyone and do respect others opinions. I just dont agree with the critism that TC, GN, DM and BK recieve. It's just not justified. Well said and welcome to the forum lol Dont think it will go down well in some quarters though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) where's haf? welcome man...nice post but it seems you are in the boat of people can't be criticised cos of who they are..are you happy with dm's substitutions and negativity? i know i'm not...neville and cahill are in bad form then why were they still playing when we had other options to try who couldn't do worse? there's plenty of threads about similar so not gonna argue too much.. Edited January 24, 2012 by marcopaulo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Monday Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 I agree with a lot of what you're saying as well Shukes, certainly about Moyes, who I think deserves loyalty and patience from the fans. I think we need to rebuild a lot, as we have a core of older players whose replacements we will need in the next couple of years. It might be a bit of transitional period over the next year or so, but I think Moyes can build another good team in time. I also agree about the stick some of the players have been getting, to me it is just a symptom of the lack of depth in our squad - Cahill has needed a spell out of the side to recharge his batteries but have had to keep playing as we haven't had the quality to bring into the team. I disagree about Saha by the way, I think he just looks completely devoid of confidence and his legs are starting to go as well. If we get another player in this window, please let it be a striker who looks like he at least might score a goal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Hi All. Just like to say hello to you all. I have been reading this forum for a long time now but only just signed up as i feel i need to get a few things out. Great read i have to say! What is happening to us all? How fast we have all turned on people we labelled as hero's not so long ago! Lets talk David moyes. A manager that signed a new contract not so long ago and most of us all breathed a sigh of relief. I know i did. here is a manager that is talked about in high circles. he looks like he will have a succesful career ahead of him. Now most people here just seem to critisize him and want him out? is it all Dm's fault? is he known in the football world for making awful transfer mistakes? hmmm from what i can see he has been known for making great buys...Timmy, Arteta, Pienaar, Howard, coleman, Drenthe, Donovan, Jags, Distin, and yes Neville...... Neville you say? yes thats right the guy who plays with his heart on his sleeve and was a revelation for us not so long ago. and now we have turned on him too...so sad. There are some i agree with. Saha does not look like he is even trying...drop him and let the other guys get a chance. they cannot do any worse. But timmy and neville...i agree they are playing shit! but they are going through a patch of bad form, they are still trying and you can see by thier faces that they care about our state as much as we do. BK. The guy has not enough money to keep us going....thats a fact! is it his fault? of course not. Should he sell? of course he should. Should he sell to the clowns that brought Blackburn? if he does then even i will be here complaining. But he is doing what he can with limited resources. Come on guys/girls! The reason i love this club so much is that we are a football club not a bunch of money grabbing glory hunters. I love us for our passion and out desire to beat the odds. We are the beloved underdogs and always will be. lets get behind our club and support them. Lets get back to what made us great, The peoples club! fans that supported us at the bottom when we were nearly relegated last day of the season...you all remember barry horne dont you! i was there crying! we got behind our team and helped them.Lets do that again. I am not trying to offend anyone and do respect others opinions. I just dont agree with the critism that TC, GN, DM and BK recieve. It's just not justified. Nice post, and I admire what you are trying to do but cant agree with it im afraid! (no surprises there!) Moyes deservedly should be taking a lot of critisism. Are you happy with the way we are playing football? Why cant we do the basics of playing football? He has had a lot of time to turn things around (the seeds why we play like this were sown 3 years ago). Neville doesnt really were his heart on his sleeve for me. He does it when he wants to. Too many times we have been in the shit and needed someone to drag us through and its at this point the shouting, the finger pointing seem to stop. He is a great club captain, no doubt about it but not a leader on the field. He hasnt been helped by Moyes by playing in midfield though. I agree with Saha, and I still think Cahill is trying to work hard but it just isnt happening for him. Not his fault so to speak, but if he is taking the place of others who have deserved a chance then he will get stick. I dont care about us winning every game and thrashing teams 4-5 nil. I want to see commitment and determination from the players who have been set up to win by the manager. Until I see that from those involved, I will slag them off to my hearts content Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) I don't agree with folks turning against the team at the first opportunity, but I would say this... Most fans do recognise the contribution that certain players and managers make within a club, but they also look to the future. A player who was once a great may no longer be so, and thus should be open to criticism for their current level of performance. Likewise, poor performers in the past can finally come good (and should be given praise for improvement). Isn't it a fine balance between 'giving it time / showing respect for what's been achieved in the past' and 'the current reality'? Nobody should oust a manager or players too hastily, but equally, it's all too easy to keep holding on to past glory / success and refusing to see reality. I think Moyes' isa cracking manager and his track record speaks for itself. I also think many fans expect too much of him. He's done fabulously well fairly good players (7/10 type players). Now he's being asked to work with 5/10 players due to the lack of funds. He simply can't be expected to reach the same levels as before (until money arrives). As for some of the players? well... the standard of the squad isn't what it was, a few leading lights have had to go, and some of the trusty stalwarts are older now. There are glimmers of hope with some younger players, and of course, you're not devoid of decent players (Baines, Fellaini et al) but generally speaking the whole Everton 'environment' is worsening each year. It MIGHT be time for a change... but it's so hard to know. It's a gamble, and not one I'd want to take (I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better manager, but accept you might get a nice 6 month honeymoon). All in all, the problems seem to be behind the scenes, and ultimately that's showing on the pitch. The team performances in my view are a 'symptom'. The cause is what needs to be addressed. In this league, teams are only a couple of great players away from top 6, or a couple of lousy signings away from the relegation zone. Arsenal are as as close to the leaders as they are to Wolves!. Sadly, whilst I think Moyes IS still the right man, I feel that if/when a new owner is found, Moyes will be living on borrowed time. Tragic really. Edited January 24, 2012 by BlueSky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Welcome to the site, good first post. But I really dont buy into the fans turning on Moyes/Neville/Cahill/Saha. I've not seen anyone turn on them. What I have seen is fans say they have not been performing well, whats wrong with that? They havent performed well, just because I think that it doesnt mean I hate the guys or have turned on them. I either want them to perform better, or in Neville/Cahill/Saha's case dropped. It seems to me that no one has a problem with saying Saha has played shit, but many think its wrong to say it about Neville and Cahill, or even Moyes for that matter. They are all open to critisism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Welcome Shukes! Nice post but as with Bailey, I disagree... a few things: Being a great manager for a period of time does not get the gift of being able to do what you want and all fans sit back with blind faith whilst things are clearly wrong, in any walk of life you are accountable for your current performance - you were paid for what you did, you are continually paid for what you are expected to do - football managers must be the only people who make money from being sacked. Look at Fred Goodwin - did his knighthood mean he was unlikely to fail RBS? No, the plaudits he recieved gave him the arrogance to make such grave and careless mistakes - this may well be the case with moyes. Get behind the team? I think we all are behind the team - passion finds it's way onto forums in different moods. That said, nothing worse than a happy clapper... are those who applauded puppy dog Bill when we played Aston Villa inclined to do the same? £35m of assets sold in last year, no reinvestment from the board, failures galore - are we still meant to sit there with a £40 ticket clapping away as though the mega rich players are your children taking part in the egg and spoon race??? As for Neville and Saha - they can just go, no fan fare, just leave. if neville spent as much time focusing on improving his delivery, control and passing as he does making media soundbites he would be worth a first 11 spot. Saha is a waste of talent. Anyhows thats where I sit, welcome to the forum! Edited January 24, 2012 by Hafnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Monday Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Good post Hafnia, but regarding Moyes, how much better should we be expecting from the team considering the lack of players we have? We went into the season with the smallest squad in the league, with 18 senior players (I think), so having sold most of our creativity in Pienaar and Arteta. I would agree that we have been poor in a lot of our games this season, but our side is much worse now than it was a couple of years ago. I wonder about the subs Moyes makes, and I wish we would attack more in games, but if we had the players to do it, then we wouldn't have needed to rely on Saha (who doesn't look remotely like scoring at all) all season. As for the lack of reinvestment, I absolutely agree, and I can't imagine many people would be comfortable with what seems to have been a fire sale over the last year or so. I can only imagine that the plan is to pay down a lot of our debt to make the club easier to sell? If not, and we are being forced to sell just to survive, then all we have been told over the last few years about living within our means and being prudent with our spending has been shown up as a lie. In either scenario, we need new owners and fast, as it's the only way I can see for us to compete even for a place in the top half of the table, let alone challenge for trophies, which is what we all want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 I apologise profusely. I was wrong to be slightly annoyed that Cahill has been crap for the past 18 months at least. I was wrong to expect our captain to play well to justify his place in the team. I was wrong to be pissed off about our manager's negativity costing us points. I was wrong to be worried about our current standard of play. I was wrong to be worried about where we sit in the league at the moment. I was wrong to be living in 2012 and not 2006. I ask for your forgiveness and for you to tell me how to get back to 2006 when things were rosey. As you were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Good post Hafnia, but regarding Moyes, how much better should we be expecting from the team considering the lack of players we have? We went into the season with the smallest squad in the league, with 18 senior players (I think), so having sold most of our creativity in Pienaar and Arteta. I would agree that we have been poor in a lot of our games this season, but our side is much worse now than it was a couple of years ago. I wonder about the subs Moyes makes, and I wish we would attack more in games, but if we had the players to do it, then we wouldn't have needed to rely on Saha (who doesn't look remotely like scoring at all) all season. As for the lack of reinvestment, I absolutely agree, and I can't imagine many people would be comfortable with what seems to have been a fire sale over the last year or so. I can only imagine that the plan is to pay down a lot of our debt to make the club easier to sell? If not, and we are being forced to sell just to survive, then all we have been told over the last few years about living within our means and being prudent with our spending has been shown up as a lie. In either scenario, we need new owners and fast, as it's the only way I can see for us to compete even for a place in the top half of the table, let alone challenge for trophies, which is what we all want. But we don't actually miss Arteta imo, let's face it he spent most of his time on the side lines and when he did play he often played crab football, the real miss has been Pienaar, not because he was creative or scored a shitload, but because he layed the ball off for Baines so much, Baines has never looked quite the same since, and he is probably our most consistent creative player, he is missing Pienaars lay offs you can see it, he was never going to get the same service from Bily was he Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Monday Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 I apologise profusely. I was wrong to be slightly annoyed that Cahill has been crap for the past 18 months at least. Bit harsh - Cahill scored 9 in his first 20 games last season. Crap for a year I can agree with though I agree that you are right to be worried, but what is to blame? Obviously the manager has to take responsibility, but the main cause of our decline seems to me to be the lack of money, and the responsibility for that has to lie with the board. In my opinion at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Bit harsh - Cahill scored 9 in his first 20 games last season. Crap for a year I can agree with though I agree that you are right to be worried, but what is to blame? Obviously the manager has to take responsibility, but the main cause of our decline seems to me to be the lack of money, and the responsibility for that has to lie with the board. In my opinion at least. You'll get moaned at for dissing the board as well, I wouldn't go there. We should all sit and sing come by fucking yah, because what will be will be. Discussion is not permitted. Personally, I'd say it's a collective thing why we are where we are - the board, the manager and the players. The board haven't provided the manager with the funds, but the manager could and should be doing much better with what he has at his disposal. FFS, he's had much worse squads than what he has now and HAS done better. And the players are partly to blame too, they aren't performing to the standards we know they can reach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Monday Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 But we don't actually miss Arteta imo, let's face it he spent most of his time on the side lines and when he did play he often played crab football, the real miss has been Pienaar, not because he was creative or scored a shitload, but because he layed the ball off for Baines so much, Baines has never looked quite the same since, and he is probably our most consistent creative player, he is missing Pienaars lay offs you can see it, he was never going to get the same service from Bily was he I agree with that to a point as Baines and Pienaar obviously played well together, but I think Baines is still doing pretty well, just that most of the time we don't have enough up front to make it count. Baines has put in 178 crosses so far this season, second to Nani in the league (according to http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/2935/Stages/5476/PlayerStatistics/England-Premier-League-2011-2012), so I think he is still getting into dangerous areas, but we are playing too deep to get anyone on the end of them I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 It's amazing how many fans can be pacified by the odd sparkling performance - bearing this in mind the recent performances have been a welcome smack in the face for those who refuse to or can't see the impact that an incompetant board and a manager who has lost his way have affected our club. I'm not enjoying it - it's a little like seeing someone in the dentists waiting room, you see them suffering, they reluctantly accept the cause of the pain and they know they may need to go through a little more before the annoying tooth is removed and things get better, problem is they should have had the tooth sorted when it was a just a dull ache... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 I just dont agree with the critism that TC, GN, DM and BK recieve. It's just not justified. Welcome mate, i agree, in principle with what you mean but not with some of your points... But everyone knows as football fans, its a fickle sport, one week someone can be loved the next they can be hated in regards to our "better" players being totally out of form at the minute... By the way, the quote up the top there i was confused with... I could just be being really dumb here, (lack of sleep etc etc) but who is GN? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Welcome mate, i agree, in principle with what you mean but not with some of your points... But everyone knows as football fans, its a fickle sport, one week someone can be loved the next they can be hated in regards to our "better" players being totally out of form at the minute... By the way, the quote up the top there i was confused with... I could just be being really dumb here, (lack of sleep etc etc) but who is GN? We've swapped Phillip for Gareth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conor3 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 My own opinion would be that in Football there is such a mix of emotions and loyalties that you very rarely get in other walks of life.We are Blues and as such we like other fans of other clubs will feel torn and often disloyal bordering on treacherous if we criticize people who we once lauded.Much of football success comes from timing.Having the right players,manager and these days money at the right time and for long enough to make an impact.At Everton we have had in my humble opinion one of the best domestic managers of my generation (im 43) and a team that although boasting few out and out 'big' names has performed and looked like a real team,really playing for each other and the gaffer.But football moves quickly,legs go,form dips and sometimes things just get stale.As a club we are treading water..just and that is a feeling that moves through the club.It is time for a change ..im not saying manager or players..but without money...that may have to be the case..just to add some new impetus and freshen the place up.That doesn't mean DM has suddenly become a bad manager or players have suddenly become no good.But for everyones sake sometimes a change is needed.There doesn't look as if there is any money on the horizon and the team is looking just plain tired and strained now.Personally I think a change could be in order...not becaue ive turned against DM but because it would help everyones cause his included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Monday Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 You'll get moaned at for dissing the board as well, I wouldn't go there. We should all sit and sing come by fucking yah, because what will be will be. Discussion is not permitted. Personally, I'd say it's a collective thing why we are where we are - the board, the manager and the players. The board haven't provided the manager with the funds, but the manager could and should be doing much better with what he has at his disposal. FFS, he's had much worse squads than what he has now and HAS done better. And the players are partly to blame too, they aren't performing to the standards we know they can reach. With regard to the board, it's obviously difficult to speculate as to the exact reason for selling so many players recently. I can accept that they (comparatively) don't have any money, and I can accept that we might need to reduce the overdraft, but by this much? If the situation is as we have been told over the last few years, then we must be trying to reduce the debt in anticipation of a sale. If we are in worse financial trouble than was communicated then you have to question the initial business plan which in hindsight would seem flawed. If they know what they are doing and this is being done to encourage a sale and subsequent investment, then that should be communicated. If they have hamstrung us with too many expensive contracts etc. then it is right to question whether the prior strategy was flawed. That's the way I see it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Monday Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Welcome mate, i agree, in principle with what you mean but not with some of your points... But everyone knows as football fans, its a fickle sport, one week someone can be loved the next they can be hated in regards to our "better" players being totally out of form at the minute... By the way, the quote up the top there i was confused with... I could just be being really dumb here, (lack of sleep etc etc) but who is GN? I thought that as well - maybe he got the Neville brothers mixed up Edit as I didn't see above! Edited January 24, 2012 by Blue Monday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Thought this maybe of Interest. Bily Snr on his sons move to Moscow - The father of Diniyar Bilyaletdinov has fired a parting shot at his son’s former manager after the Russian agreed a move to Spartak Moscow. Bilyaletdinov Sn claimed that his son’s creative ability had not been used to it’s fullest during his time at Everton, and says that his son has wanted to leave for the last six months. “Diniyar has wanted to leave for six months,” he said. “I don’t think he had a choice, especially with Euro 2012 coming up, where he needs to reach a point where he is guaranteed to play. “In terms of his creativeness Diniyar has stagnated. The same thing happened to Mikel Arteta.“I don’t want to question Moyes‘s qualifications, but if he’d got more out of his defensive players, then his creative players wouldn’t have dropped off so much in recent years.” Edited January 24, 2012 by tenaciousj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Ooooh, there is no way back from that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted January 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 I apologise profusely. I was wrong to be slightly annoyed that Cahill has been crap for the past 18 months at least. I was wrong to expect our captain to play well to justify his place in the team. I was wrong to be pissed off about our manager's negativity costing us points. I was wrong to be worried about our current standard of play. I was wrong to be worried about where we sit in the league at the moment. I was wrong to be living in 2012 and not 2006. I ask for your forgiveness and for you to tell me how to get back to 2006 when things were rosey. As you were. Your forgiven Thanks for the warm welcomes. and thank you for critisising my post in a productive way. I may have came accross a bit too " happy clapper "! but i suppose i got a little caught up in the old " get behind us " thing. i apologise. I can see most peoples points and in answer... no i am not happy with the way we are playing. But at the same time i struggle to blame moyes. I watch us play and can see the effort from most, but sometimes the pressure tells and as we see a lot, trying too hard can sometimes have the oposite effect. thats what i think is happening from some of our players. Yes i think moyes has made a few strange desicion, but hes made more positive ones than bad for me. Neville seems to be a heavily contested subject here haha. Someone pointed out that some fans show thier passion by coming here and arguing thier opinion. and in retrospect i am humbled a bit as reading through this thread i can recognise that now and hope i didnt offend anyone. Looking forward to chatting with you guys a lot more. Thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Stick around dude, I like your well constructed posts. I may not agree, but i like them all the same! Edited January 24, 2012 by tenaciousj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Shukes, do not apologise, its your opinion and you are entitled to it. We all disagree, its part of the fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Shukes, do not apologise, its your opinion and you are entitled to it. We all disagree, its part of the fun. No we don't Edited January 24, 2012 by tenaciousj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 No we don't Oh yes we do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Oh yes we do! Errrrmmmmm.....we don't. Finale. What i say is the truth....FACT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Panto season again so soon ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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