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Joao Silva


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sorry but we have had far too many good young prospects at the club who have never flourished under Moyes Matt, so either that's his coaching, or we have a poor scouting network.

 

I think it probably happens at all clubs....just that we're more aware of the Everton ones.

 

eg Mame Biram Diouf just left United.

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we got vellios..coleman...duffy..some work some don't..simple

ive got a huge bee in my bonnet about the youth setup at everton, just look at what he's doing with Barkley, Ross will be gone in the summer i have no doubts about it, the keepers we have gone through, Mustafi was going to be a world beater, never fucking played, Vidaarson? i could go on, but can't be arsed as we all know the names.
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hundreds and hundreds of youth players a year get released..many promising ones included...it doesn't work out for some..it does for others..that's football...everton is no worse for it than anyone else...who said mustafi was going to be a world beater? he had potential..didn't impress enough obviously...the case with barkley is an odd one i'll admit but i fully trust moyes to do the best with our kids

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I think our youth setup is regarded as being one of the best and we have a better than average record of bringing youth team members through. The evidence is as someone has already pointed out, who has gone on onto better things after being released? Even tho Ruddy has done well he isn't doing better than Everton's first team. Same with Anthony Gerrard. I remember Steven Schumacher played for England at every youth level but didn't end up being good enough for the top level.

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I dont think this one can be pinned on Moyes.

 

He has been on two loan spells in very 'modest' leagues and on the face of it, he simply hasnt scored enough goals. I obviously have no idea about his performances but if he was any good some decent teams would be sniffing around him.

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I dont think this one can be pinned on Moyes.

 

He has been on two loan spells in very 'modest' leagues and on the face of it, he simply hasnt scored enough goals. I obviously have no idea about his performances but if he was any good some decent teams would be sniffing around him.

 

Spot on

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Every club has a youth system that lets players go.

I know a few people that are heavily involved with bringing in youth players to the midlands teams, ie Villa WBA etc. He tells me that if they get one player make the grade from every 30 youth players they bring in, then thats a success.

 

Everton have a widely regarded and highly rated youth set up. Thats why we have a lot of "prospects" join us.

As to the ones we have let go, where are they now?

 

I have a nephew that was signed for villa due to his highly rated skills. He got let go as he is too short.

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A highly talented youngster doesnt automatically become a world beater. Given our financial restraints our policy has been to buy young. Some work out some don't and it will always be the way. Whether they fail to realise their potential or just didnt have all the requirements who knows but I dont blame Moyes for it

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Another point; these players are bought by the youth coaches, not Moyes.

Find it hard to believe that Moyes has no say in which young players come in. you even made a comment the other day with regrads to Jack Butland coming in and that he would be making a mistake if he came here, did you not?
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Find it hard to believe that Moyes has no say in which young players come in. you even made a comment the other day with regrads to Jack Butland coming in and that he would be making a mistake if he came here, did you not?

 

Yes, I say that about any young keeper we buy.

 

Strikers and midfielders tend to be given a go by Moyes if they progress well through the various youth sides and the reserves, so if he's decided Silva isn't good enough then I'm inclined to trust his judgement on it.

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Yes, I say that about any young keeper we buy.

 

Strikers and midfielders tend to be given a go by Moyes if they progress well through the various youth sides and the reserves, so if he's decided Silva isn't good enough then I'm inclined to trust his judgement on it.

i just think it would have been nice to see him at least have a go in a cup match or something, we have been lacking a striker for a long time, and he could have tried Silva on numerous occasions and could he have been any worse than Saha or Anichebe? i doubt it myself and if he was then ok fair enough, but as has been said before how are we going to bring through any promising forwards when we have the mentality we have and the manager is surrounded by defensive minded coaches, as for them being given a go, all except Barkley then wink.png
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Barkley is a confidence player and we must all remember how easy it is for these young guys to dissapear when confidence is down. Barkely will get his moment. Do we just risk him and get him seriously injured before he matures? or risk destroying his confidence. In this regard i would trust DM.

 

But didnt we have james come through at a young age up front? and anichebe? and now we have velious as one of our top scorers. Maggy is starting to make a few more appearances now too, and lets face it, he wasnt ready 6 months ago for the prem.

 

Lets see what happens in the next 6 months and then we can judge moyes on the season.

 

Just hope DM remembers that our cup run and a decent finish is priroity over blooding young players.

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Yes, I say that about any young keeper we buy.

 

Strikers and midfielders tend to be given a go by Moyes if they progress well through the various youth sides and the reserves, so if he's decided Silva isn't good enough then I'm inclined to trust his judgement on it.

regarding young keepers we have to keep looking to bring them in,simply because what we have behind tim howard are not good enough and should be shipped out in the summer.
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If thats the best you can do then STFU

 

 

Lol Fair enough I could have put a bit more effort in

 

You could criticise Moyes for his tactics, his negativity, his stubborness or just for being ginger and you could have some merit in what you were saying, however to imply that youth never gets a chance under Moyes is farcical

 

I suppose I could have gone to the time and effort of illustrating the long list of youngsters that have played under Moyes in our first team but to be honest it was such a ridiculous comment that I simply couldnt be arsed

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regarding young keepers we have to keep looking to bring them in,simply because what we have behind tim howard are not good enough and should be shipped out in the summer.

 

 

That's all well and good when we have a string of young keepers brought in never to see the light of day because we've brought shte like Carlo Nash and Wessels in it annoys me. You can't know if the young keepers are good enough to take over from Howard if they don't ever play, they're not even given a go in cup games.

 

We went after Joe Hart when he was at Shrewsbury and I'm so glad we didn't get him or England would probably still have David James or Paul Robinson in goal and Hart would probably be at Wycombe after never making an appearance for us.

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That's all well and good when we have a string of young keepers brought in never to see the light of day because we've brought shte like Carlo Nash and Wessels in it annoys me. You can't know if the young keepers are good enough to take over from Howard if they don't ever play, they're not even given a go in cup games.

 

We went after Joe Hart when he was at Shrewsbury and I'm so glad we didn't get him or England would probably still have David James or Paul Robinson in goal and Hart would probably be at Wycombe after never making an appearance for us.

dont talk to me about not playing reserve keepers we could have been at wembley only for mucha, a really bad keeper at fault for our defeat against chelsea carling cup .

wessels was the reserve keeper when we got beat against oldham f a cup a few years ago,we need to to play our best keeper in cup games unless we have a very good understudy.which we havnt.

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dont talk to me about not playing reserve keepers we could have been at wembley only for mucha, a really bad keeper at fault for our defeat against chelsea carling cup .

wessels was the reserve keeper when we got beat against oldham f a cup a few years ago,we need to to play our best keeper in cup games unless we have a very good understudy.which we havnt.

 

 

Totally agree

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dont talk to me about not playing reserve keepers we could have been at wembley only for mucha, a really bad keeper at fault for our defeat against chelsea carling cup .

wessels was the reserve keeper when we got beat against oldham f a cup a few years ago,we need to to play our best keeper in cup games unless we have a very good understudy.which we havnt.

 

I dont think you can pin a mistake by Wessels as being the only reason we lost against Oldham! Everyone was shite and made mistakes, its just his was the most costly.

 

Deffo agree with Mucha though, never known a keeper that could catch a shot like Kalou's that day. Slow, loopy, right into the bread basket, then right back out again and over the line.

 

Maybe the issue is more of DM not having good enough reserve GK's as opposed to the fact that they shouldnt be playing. Even with a crap GK we should be beating the likes of Oldham etc etc

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Unfortunately keepers tend not to mature until later on in their careers and go on for a lot longer in their careers to, so younger lads are always going to be at a disadvantage.

 

Neither Wessels or Mucha are/were shite. Both came with decent CV's (international/European experience). We just happen to have have some good 1st choice keepers meaning chances will always be limited.

 

I recall people moaning about Ruddy and Turner, neither were good enough, no confidence etc. Fine Ruddy has gone on to have a decent season for Norwich, but was he good enough to dislodge Howard at the time?

 

Anyway.... back on topic. Good luck to Silva if he moves, decent potential but obviously viewed as not good enough fro us in the end.

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Unfortunately keepers tend not to mature until later on in their careers and go on for a lot longer in their careers to, so younger lads are always going to be at a disadvantage.

 

Neither Wessels or Mucha are/were shite. Both came with decent CV's (international/European experience). We just happen to have have some good 1st choice keepers meaning chances will always be limited.

 

I recall people moaning about Ruddy and Turner, neither were good enough, no confidence etc. Fine Ruddy has gone on to have a decent season for Norwich, but was he good enough to dislodge Howard at the time?

 

Anyway.... back on topic. Good luck to Silva if he moves, decent potential but obviously viewed as not good enough fro us in the end.

 

I dont remember people moaning about Ruddy as in the small glimpse we saw of him he did quite well. Was never convinced by Turner on the other hand.

 

I think keepers do need to get first team experience under their belt, and while there is a solid keeper at the club, they should go on loan until they are deemed ready, whether thats 1 year or 5 years down the line. I think that is probably what Moyes invisigaed by bringing in these cheap euro keepers, but ultimately Ruddy probably wanted a stable club and Moyes did the right thing by the player and letting him leave.

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dont talk to me about not playing reserve keepers we could have been at wembley only for mucha, a really bad keeper at fault for our defeat against chelsea carling cup .

wessels was the reserve keeper when we got beat against oldham f a cup a few years ago,we need to to play our best keeper in cup games unless we have a very good understudy.which we havnt.

 

 

I'm not sure you've read my post right. I haven't said Wessels or Mucha should be playing have I? I've said Wessels was shite and shoudn't have been brought in in the first place.

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I'm not sure you've read my post right. I haven't said Wessels or Mucha should be playing have I? I've said Wessels was shite and shoudn't have been brought in in the first place.

maybe i did read it wrong but we do need a good young keeper,even though howard isnt crap as we say hes had some dodgy games this season,as was shown yesterday.

i think he took his eye off the ball and was watching the player coming in on his left,even though it was a bad bounce he should have saved that.

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maybe i did read it wrong but we do need a good young keeper,even though howard isnt crap as we say hes had some dodgy games this season,as was shown yesterday.

i think he took his eye off the ball and was watching the player coming in on his left,even though it was a bad bounce he should have saved that.

 

 

I think we did have a good young keeper in Ruddy but he was never given a go because we brought in experience. Except that experience was absolutely shite.

 

 

And that is my point. Young keepers should stay away from this club while Moyes is manager because they won't even get a bench role. They won't play in cup games. They'll just fade away at this club without ever getting an opportunity.

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I think we did have a good young keeper in Ruddy but he was never given a go because we brought in experience. Except that experience was absolutely shite.

 

 

And that is my point. Young keepers should stay away from this club while Moyes is manager because they won't even get a bench role. They won't play in cup games. They'll just fade away at this club without ever getting an opportunity.

keepers are really hard to assess.look at the trouble united are having,regarding our keepers of past how many have made it other than ruddy,even ruddy made the breakthrough in the championship.

nev southall was mid twentys before he came through.

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keepers are really hard to assess.look at the trouble united are having,regarding our keepers of past how many have made it other than ruddy,even ruddy made the breakthrough in the championship.

nev southall was mid twentys before he came through.

 

So you give them a bench role and play them in the cups so you can assess them to see how they'd cope. The bench role shows them what preparation you have to go through on a matchday at the highest level so they're ready for those cup games or if they're needed if the No. 1 keeper gets injured.

 

What we do is all wrong, IMO. We stick them in the reserves or loan them out to 200 different clubs for a month or two at a time without ever giving them a chance.

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So you give them a bench role and play them in the cups so you can assess them to see how they'd cope. The bench role shows them what preparation you have to go through on a matchday at the highest level so they're ready for those cup games or if they're needed if the No. 1 keeper gets injured.

 

What we do is all wrong, IMO. We stick them in the reserves or loan them out to 200 different clubs for a month or two at a time without ever giving them a chance.

 

Surely its better for their development if they are out on loan playing week in week out than it is sitting on our bench.

 

As someone else said earlier, I am dead against trying keepers out in Cup games. The cups are our only realistic chance of trophies/European football so I would much rather we set out to win every cup game we play in ie field our strongest side

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Surely its better for their development if they are out on loan playing week in week out than it is sitting on our bench.

 

As someone else said earlier, I am dead against trying keepers out in Cup games. The cups are our only realistic chance of trophies/European football so I would much rather we set out to win every cup game we play in ie field our strongest side

wonder why that is then....anything to do with pathetic owners and negative tactics all the time, so we have to wait till we play weaker opposition and stand a chance of getting somewhere, it's a vicious circle that won't change under the current regime.
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wonder why that is then....anything to do with pathetic owners and negative tactics all the time, so we have to wait till we play weaker opposition and stand a chance of getting somewhere, it's a vicious circle that won't change under the current regime.

 

Unless you know someone who is going to come in and spend upwards of £400M that is a fact of life, no matter what tactics the manager uses, so you better get used to it

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Surely its better for their development if they are out on loan playing week in week out than it is sitting on our bench.

 

As someone else said earlier, I am dead against trying keepers out in Cup games. The cups are our only realistic chance of trophies/European football so I would much rather we set out to win every cup game we play in ie field our strongest side

 

 

Not when that's all they do and are never given a go. What good did loaning Ruddy out to club after club do? It didn't matter that he got good reports about him from every club he was at did it? We still brought in absolute shite.

 

It's just something that bugs me so much.

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I wonder how barkley would do out on loan???

 

Let's be honest - I fancy he would have developed more pulling the strings at Blackpool than he would getting splinters at GP or playing against ressie players lesser quality than what he faces for the under 21's...

 

I wonder how many times he's run the show in training against Gibson, Neville - who get first team berths ahead of him at the moment...

 

People argue about him having missed alot of development with his injury - I would say more damage has been done since pre season - maybe his Nurse ratched's labotomy hasn't worked yet and he along with drenthe do not understand the words "launch it" "hoof it" "get rid"

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If he goes out, I want it to be at Prem level (imo)

 

I'll be honest, how on earth he hasn't been played for a reasonable time since blackburn is a complete and utter joke. From reading match reports of ressie games and under 18 games alone he has been splitting defences open with slide rule passes galore... I will say this again - PUT NEVILLE IN ONE OF THOSE GAMES AND HE WOULD LOOK THE DINOSAUR THAT HE IS.

 

Sad fact of life is that the yound bucks come along - bigger, faster, stronger they have learned the tricks from the pioneers (they were busy perfecting ronaldo step overs and chops, busy learning gerrards runs from midfield, ronaldinho flip flaps) they then come up against the seasoned pros in training who have no idea that kids so young have these things perfected.

 

Did gazza have to wait till he was 25 before he could master the Cryff turn that he pulled off against the inventors own country in Italia 90 that had people off their feet? Did Rooney not do the Zidanne 360 spin against the master himself in euro 2004?

 

The beauty of the game is that when the pioneers create a bit of magic, the young gazzas, rooney's etc go out in the park and perfect the trick that only youngsters have the 'development time' to master. They then take this to the game and no doubt bring a bit of their own invention that other kids follow.

 

What we have witnessed with barkley IMO is a manager who has exercised over caution of a talent that needs to be expressed rather than controlled. He did the same with Rodwell, and tried to do the same with Rooney - but he couldn't tame that one. In my opinion Rooney knew he couldn't flourish under Moyes and it made the move so much easier for him. I fear the same with barkley

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As far as I am aware the loan window is only still open for Championship & below, so Barkey can no longer go to a Prem team.

 

If he isnt going to be playing some part in our season, then he has to go out on loan IMO and to a decent Champ team (I think he would be perfect for Soton although they have their own decent young lads) and not to the level that some of our lads have gone to.

 

I have heard the likes of Wallace & Baxter speak about their loans on twitter etc, and they seem to mature so quickly as they realise that they have to fight for every point because it really can make the difference.

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haf hes 18 not 25 hes also been injured so dont worry he will get his chance,probably for gibson if he doesnt pull his finger out.

 

Yep but so is oxlade chamberlain, unfortunately moyes doesn't share wengers faith in young talent.

 

Gibson worryingly does seem to have a bit of attitude issue, early days but he hasn't really impressed too much. First game promised a little but seems very pedestrian.

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haf hes 18 not 25 hes also been injured so dont worry he will get his chance,probably for gibson if he doesnt pull his finger out.

 

I get the "he was injured for a year" argument. That will certainly have slowed his development down. But I think that even with that injury having hampered him, he's already a better player than Neville, Cahill etc. Based on the little I saw of him (highlights from the DC United game, the full pre season games against Villareal and Werder and his appearences in the league this far) I'd say he's one of the better players at the club, not someone that should play with the U18 squad. He has the awareness, vision, pass, control, the balance to glide past opponents ... to play in the hole. That are all things Cahill doesn't have. Now that Osman is out injured, I think Barkley should be starting, but he isn't even on the bench.

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Yep but so is oxlade chamberlain, unfortunately moyes doesn't share wengers faith in young talent.

 

Gibson worryingly does seem to have a bit of attitude issue, early days but he hasn't really impressed too much. First game promised a little but seems very pedestrian.

 

dry.png Wenger has got so much more faith that he has started the lad in a massive one Premiership game this season, but to be fair he has doubled that in substitute appearances

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dry.png Wenger has got so much more faith that he has started the lad in a massive one Premiership game this season, but to be fair he has doubled that in substitute appearances

 

Wenger loaned an 18-19 year old jack wilshere out, when many thought he should have been playing at Arsenal, he came back, got another pre-season under his belt and was a key player until he got injured. If we loan Ross to a team like Southampton, Blackpool or Cardiff, even just for a month I think it would do him the world of good.

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Wenger loaned an 18-19 year old jack wilshere out, when many thought he should have been playing at Arsenal, he came back, got another pre-season under his belt and was a key player until he got injured. If we loan Ross to a team like Southampton, Blackpool or Cardiff, even just for a month I think it would do him the world of good.

 

Me too!

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I get the "he was injured for a year" argument. That will certainly have slowed his development down. But I think that even with that injury having hampered him, he's already a better player than Neville, Cahill etc. Based on the little I saw of him (highlights from the DC United game, the full pre season games against Villareal and Werder and his appearences in the league this far) I'd say he's one of the better players at the club, not someone that should play with the U18 squad. He has the awareness, vision, pass, control, the balance to glide past opponents ... to play in the hole. That are all things Cahill doesn't have. Now that Osman is out injured, I think Barkley should be starting, but he isn't even on the bench.

when isaid hes been injured i mean this season,hes only just back and he was on the bench last home game.
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dry.png Wenger has got so much more faith that he has started the lad in a massive one Premiership game this season, but to be fair he has doubled that in substitute appearances

 

5 appearances and two goals, in a team hardly lacking any quality, Barkley on the other hand??? Yes you guessed it, moyes can't see him being better than the mighty Phil Neville, big difference.

 

Barkley is better than Gibson, Neville, Cahill, osman, anichebe, someone tell me he isn't...

 

And please don't tell me moyes sees him in training... If moyes seen a London bus coming at him he would probably tell you it's green the crap he's been spouting recently.

 

Rooney at 17 was our best player by a mile, yet was used sporadically, played out of position, subbed etc. generally people at the time were bewildered in moyes overdosing the cotton wool.

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