James McCarthy

[Guest Nikica]

a goal scorer is more important than a defensive mid?

 

No the wage structure should be structured around players with the best ability and not the position they play.

 

McCarthy is greedy because of a journo rumour? guys we don't even know what he is on or what he has been offered. we don't know if he has asked for it or if the club are just rewarding players.

let this one unfold before we snap judgements.

 

Not judging mate. We all thinks it's bollocks but we're just exploring the possibility hypothetically.

 

Agree about the 'best ability' thing though and based on that and his importance to the team McCarthy deserves to be amongst Everton's top earners. That's where Cotto and I differ on the matter.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Nikica

[MC11]

a goal scorer is more important than a defensive mid?

 

No the wage structure should be structured around players with the best ability and not the position they play.

 

McCarthy is greedy because of a journo rumour? guys we don't even know what he is on or what he has been offered. we don't know if he has asked for it or if the club are just rewarding players.

let this one unfold before we snap judgements.

Of course a goal scorer is more important than a defensive midfielder..... That's why there is a trend that they're on more money!!!

[Guest Nikica]

Of course a goal scorer is more important than a defensive midfielder..... That's why there is a trend that they're on more money!!!

 

It's a trend but there are exceptions.

 

Also, goalscorers have the end product but the rest of the team - particularly the mf - gives them the platform to score. But that's us deviating into football philosophy again.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Nikica

[Cornish Steve]

The way it should work is bonuses. Players like McCarthy should be on 50k basic. Bonuses for CL finish. Cup Wins. Clean sheets. Goals scored.

 

That way financially it's all covered based on success.

I totally agree with you. It should work like this for all players. It's ridiculous that many get paid a huge sun no matter how well they play. Where's the incentive?

 

 

As for McCarthy not being worth as much as a striker, i can't agree. Right now, McCarthy is the linchpin of the team. More than any other player, we don't play as well without him. That to my mind is the key question: how do we fare without him? Crystal Palace anyone?

[MC11]

Not judging mate. We all thinks it's bollocks but we're just exploring the possibility hypothetically.

 

Agree about the 'best ability' thing though and based on that and his importance to the team McCarthy deserves to be amongst Everton's top earners. That's where Cotto and I differ on the matter.

Of course the best ability should be top earners but there is a difference between a defensive player and an attacking one. The attackers are generally on more money. That's just clear across all clubs.

[MC11]

I totally agree with you. It should work like this for all players. It's ridiculous that many get paid a huge sun no matter how well they play. Where's the incentive?

As for McCarthy not being worth as much as a striker, i can't agree. Right now, McCarthy is the linchpin of the team. More than any other player, we don't play as well without him. That to my mind is the key question: how do we fare without him? Crystal Palace anyone?

So he's the best player at the club?

[BlueBlood81]

Its bollocks spun by the same hacks that linked him to Utd lads ffs. Get a handle. The lack of real transfer activitys got us all spinning out on speculation.

[Cornish Steve]

So he's the best player at the club?

Whether the best player or not ( and that's debatable ), he is the linchpin that holds the team together. In that sense, he's the most valuable.

[MC11]

Fair enough. I disagree though and he's certainly not the most valuable.

[Guest Nikica]

Yeah, I agree with Steve, he's the glue so he deserves as much as anyone. I think he's possibly the most valuable player in the squad as if he's missing your performance levels would dip more than if almost any other player is missing. It's also a joke that players earn that much money full stop, regardless of if they play well or not. But that's how capitalism operates sadly - it is supply and demand and there is colossal demand for football. We are all complicit in it.

[Guest Nikica]

Its bollocks spun by the same hacks that linked him to Utd lads ffs. Get a handle. The lack of real transfer activitys got us all spinning out on speculation.

 

Like I say, I don't think anyone really takes all the tabloid bollocks mentioned seriously. People just discuss these stories on the off-chance or as a hypothetical.

[MC11]

 

We've had some absolutely shocking performances with him playing. You're basing his importance on one game he was missing - palace.

 

Our worst performances against the shite he was playing. Soton away, playing. If your going to base his importance on one game at least have it as the worst performance.

Edited May 28, 2014 by MiguelCotto

[Newty82]

Ai, it all sounds bollocks. One good season would not earn you double your money at any club, never mind Everton! it seems Mccarthy is already on around £50k. More than enough, but we seem to have a consistent and fair pay structure at the club. He may an extra few grand plus some more juice added to any bonus scheme, which all players also have.

 

As for a DM not being an £80k a week player based on their position. Well we paid 'the bulk' of Gareth Barry's £120k per week...so guess we have paid him a small fortune?

[MC11]

 

Ai, it all sounds bollocks. One good season would not earn you double your money at any club, never mind Everton! it seems Mccarthy is already on around £50k. More than enough, but we seem to have a consistent and fair pay structure at the club. He may an extra few grand plus some more juice added to any bonus scheme, which all players also have.

As for a DM not being an £80k a week player based on their position. Well we paid 'the bulk' of Gareth Barry's £120k per week...so guess we have paid him a small fortune?

"At Everton" 80k a week for a defensive player is too much! Our strikers, attackers have never earnt that and those are the players who get the top end wages. If your playing for City or Chelsea you'll probably get more than that as a DM but as soon as we start paying that, strikers will be looking for 100k to come here. Edited May 29, 2014 by MiguelCotto

[Guest blueboy122]

"At Everton" 80k a week for a defensive player is too much! Our strikers, attackers have never earnt that and those are the players who get the top end wages. If your playing for City or Chelsea you'll probably get more than that as a DM but as soon as we start paying that strikers will be looking for 100k to come here.

Agreed. If we want to sign Lukaku he will want a higher wage than James McCarthy and we will be looking at wage demands of £100k plus

[Newty82]

"At Everton" 80k a week for a defensive player is too much! Our strikers, attackers have never earnt that and those are the players who get the top end wages. If your playing for City or Chelsea you'll probably get more than that as a DM but as soon as we start paying that, strikers will be looking for 100k to come here.

Ai, and I agree.

 

But what I am getting at is that you strongly say that Mccarthy shouldn't get 80k per week because he is a DM (is it that or is it really that it's Mccarthy? ), yet we have paid 'the bulk' of Barry's wage. To me, the bulk of 120k per week must be around 80k.

 

The main question is, did we get value for paying so much to the player?

[MC11]

Nobody knows how much we paid Barry. But I'll guess it was around 50k. That's something we can't discuss because we don't know the facts.

 

In terms of McCarthy, yes I don't rate him as highly as most. I certainly wouldn't lose sleep if he was sold. Not like if Barkley, Stones, Mirallas were.

 

I still maintain top wages should be for the match winners. I think Haf described him as a water carrier that's fine but that doesn't put you top of the wage structure.

 

I find him clumsy, technical ability average. He seems to get smoke blown up his arse because he has a proper engine on him. In terms of footballing ability he's nowhere near one of the better players.

 

I can see there is a lot of potential and he's already a decent player but Just can't justify this Golden Boy tag based on hard work.

[Hafnia]

Fellaini was on £75k a week or something like that.... Has it been confirmed that he is going to be offered £80k a week?

 

Either way i'm not really too moved by this, if he is on £40k a week then yeah maybe the next increment is £60k to be put alongside the likes of Jags - I just don't believe that he gets a double your salary deal after one season.

 

 

Nobody knows how much we paid Barry. But I'll guess it was around 50k. That's something we can't discuss because we don't know the facts.

In terms of McCarthy, yes I don't rate him as highly as most. I certainly wouldn't lose sleep if he was sold. Not like if Barkley, Stones, Mirallas were.

I still maintain top wages should be for the match winners. I think Haf described him as a water carrier that's fine but that doesn't put you top of the wage structure.

I find him clumsy, technical ability average. He seems to get smoke blown up his arse because he has a proper engine on him. In terms of footballing ability he's nowhere near one of the better players.

I can see there is a lot of potential and he's already a decent player but Just can't justify this Golden Boy tag based on hard work.

 

I played football against a lad in the west cheshire prem - had been at a few clubs as a young lad but never quite made it, it was my job to keep him quiet at centre mid. After the game I knew why he had been at a few clubs and I couldn't work out why he was playing at west cheshire level, I literally didn't get anywhere near him.

 

What did he do??? In all the 90 minutes he took no more than 2 touches of the ball but must have had 150 touches in the game.

He didn't dribble past me once, he never got any shots away, he never made any defence splitting passes, but he never misplaced a pass, he managed to evade me every time to receive the ball off a team mate and lay it off, he broke down our play and gave it to a team mate. I did manage to foul him with 5 minutes to go - that was about it.

 

Up till that game I had played against fancydan midfielders who were so called superstars, every one of them allowed me to get a leveller on them, a proper hard tackle where they let themselves be put in a position where they were made to look like a fool. Yeah, they did the odd nice thing and let fly from 30 yards but I was able to get near them.

 

McCarthy reminds me of that lad I could not get near - my mate who was watching said "I thought that lad was meant to be amazing, he didn't do anything" - my response was "he is, the best player i've played against".

Without that lad in their team we would have won that game - simple as that.

 

McCarthy's worth is just not appreciated for what it should be.

[MC11]

McCarthy does give the ball away though. His pass completion is not 100%. he slipped in dangerous positions a lot. He is far from the finished article.

Edited May 29, 2014 by MiguelCotto

[Hafnia]

McCarthy does give the ball away though. His pass completion is not 100%. he slipped in dangerous positions a lot. He is far from the finished article.

 

He had an 88% pass completion for Wigan in the season they were relegated. He had a 78% pass completion last season for us with average pass length of 22m. Show me a player with 100% and I will show you a player who doesn't make many passes.

 

Not too sure you can accomodate for slipping - i've seen many players do that this season and the pitch at the Emirates has come in for some heavy criticism from players.

 

He is pretty near the finished article technically and tactically - the rest of his development will be physically and mentally. Tactically he is years ahead of his age, technically he will not improve much at all (see Lukaku), physically he will get stronger which will be a great asset to his tremendous stamina - mentally he just needs to get a bit more "dominant", more confident, become a leader because for me he is the closest thing we have to a real captain in years.

[MC11]

The lad has been slipping all over the park all season... He needs to work on his balance quite evidently.

 

His pass completion is 87%. (John Stones is 90% btw). You referred to this guy you played against as not giving the ball away at all. Then that he reminds you of McCarthy. He does give the ball away. He done it 3 times against City at home within the first 30minutes - cheaply. I try my best to look at his footballing ability. I'm still at the conclusion that he has average technical ability.... He makes easy passes. He's not one to try audacious defence splitting passes - so his pass percentage should be high.

 

Listen I think he's a decent central midfielder. But the way people go on about him here is too much. His ability is in his engine/work ethic.

[Hafnia]

The lad has been slipping all over the park all season... He needs to work on his balance quite evidently.

 

His pass completion is 87%. (John Stones is 90% btw). You referred to this guy you played against as not giving the ball away at all. Then that he reminds you of McCarthy. He does give the ball away. He done it 3 times against City at home within the first 30minutes - cheaply. I try my best to look at his footballing ability. I'm still at the conclusion that he has average technical ability.... He makes easy passes. He's not one to try audacious defence splitting passes - so his pass percentage should be high.

 

Listen I think he's a decent central midfielder. But the way people go on about him here is too much. His ability is in his engine/work ethic.

 

A few years ago I would have been coming out with what you are regarding McCarthy. Appreciation changes with age. Tempo, positional discipline, awareness are just the things you aren't seeing at all.

 

Makes me laugh, if he was at United he would be the new Roy Keane to all the pundits. We would have seen montages as to why.

 

I'm happy that he hasn't had such publicity. One of my mates who is a Liverpool season ticket holder and played a fair bit rates him as the player they should have got, far better than Allen and Henderson.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Hafnia

[Guest Nikica]

Nice story haf. Cotto, I know it sounds condescending, but haf is right. Most people don't really appreciate the things a player like McCarthy does until they get older. I was exactly the same, as I have said on here. It's just his subtle way of playing.

[Newty82]

Nobody knows how much we paid Barry. But I'll guess it was around 50k. That's something we can't discuss because we don't know the facts.

In that case then all of the comments and aggro around McCarthy's pay and contract are pointless. Because we don't know the facts.

 

In fact, most discussions held are pointless for the same reason.

[MC11]

In that case then all of the comments and aggro around McCarthy's pay and contract are pointless. Because we don't know the facts.

In fact, most discussions held are pointless for the same reason.

Yeh

[Hafnia]

The question if it was put to me "how much is he worth a week?"

 

£60k is justified, you can't not pay him that because he is young. Is he a key player? Yes, definately. Would other clubs pay him that? Absolutely.

 

Let's not get our knickers in a twist, the lad is going to be one of the best midfielders around of his type. We need to retain and reward him within our pay structure which we can.

 

Martinez ain't soft, McCarthy ain't greedy, I don't see any issues.

[Shukes]

Of course the best ability should be top earners but there is a difference between a defensive player and an attacking one. The attackers are generally on more money. That's just clear across all clubs.

not disagreeing that they are on more money MC. I'm just not agreeing that its right. Its a common misconception that attacking players should be more valuable.

Take your goalkeeper away from your team and all of a sudden your defence becomes the most important and critical part of your team. Is Giroud arsenals most important player?

What about Soldado at Spurs or countless others. Put Jags up front for a season and see what happens, he will score goals because he is in a position to do so. A goalkeeper cannot save a shot if he plays up front.

Wages should depend on ability.

 

I played Semi Pro football where I started out as a left back. I moved forward and played everywhere from a wingback to a forward. My manager played me as a forward for one match where I scored two goals and we won the match... the next week I was playing back as a wingback. when I asked why he told me I was just too good as a wingback. I was pretty upset about this as I thought I did a great job playing a s a forward. I was told that my best position was as a wingback and that I was the first name on the team sheet.... I was their best and most important player. For the record I got £30 a game haha!

 

McCarthy is a player that's slowly growing on me. I am not as big a fan as Hafs bromance but I am starting to notice there's a lot more to him than I first realised. He has a good engine, he can tackle and will leave his mark on the occasion. His passing is surprisingly good. but his best attribute is that he is learning a lot from Barry. Towards the latter end of the season when Barry started to tire, McCarthy really came into his own and stepped up.

[Romey 1878]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/james-mccarthy-perfect-role-model-7192252?

[c1982]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/james-mccarthy-perfect-role-model-7192252?

There's McCarthy's worth there. I personally thinks he's brilliant. He reminds me of my all time favourite blue Joe Parkinson. In my opinion McCarthy is our most important player and the hardest to replace in our team.

[Matt]

There's McCarthy's worth there. I personally thinks he's brilliant. He reminds me of my all time favourite blue Joe Parkinson. In my opinion McCarthy is our most important player and the hardest to replace in our team.

agree, though I compared him with Carsley