Board/Owners Related Stuff

[Matt]

7 minutes ago, London Blue said:

Media is ok, apart from the Jim White stuff, which he has admitted was a problem and has now stopped.

Apart from a new manager which he will be judged on, what else should he be doing that he is not doing now, or improve on?

 

Media is still a joke in my opinion. Allowing sponsors to make fun of us after a defeat should’ve been ruthlessly addressed, but I don’t remember hearing a peep. The public chasing of “Moshiris man” is also a disgrace, and it’s only a matter of time before that starts again. We used to conduct our business in a manner that we could be proud of, now we’ve got an owner who’s got cash and is treating us like his Championship Manager team.

Anyway, like I said in the Tom Davies thread, it’s been an emotional rollercoaster of a weekend. I’m sure I’ll be back to my usual positive self and regretting these rants soon enough 😊 

 

[London Blue]

7 minutes ago, Matt said:

Media is still a joke in my opinion. Allowing sponsors to make fun of us after a defeat should’ve been ruthlessly addressed, but I don’t remember hearing a peep. The public chasing of “Moshiris man” is also a disgrace, and it’s only a matter of time before that starts again. We used to conduct our business in a manner that we could be proud of, now we’ve got an owner who’s got cash and is treating us like his Championship Manager team.

Anyway, like I said in the Tom Davies thread, it’s been an emotional rollercoaster of a weekend. I’m sure I’ll be back to my usual positive self and regretting these rants soon enough 😊 

 

Fair enough.

[MikeO]

6 minutes ago, Matt said:

Allowing sponsors to make fun of us after a defeat should’ve been ruthlessly addressed

But he didn't "allow" them to do it, they took it upon themselves; and how was he supposed to "ruthlessly address" it? Tell them to take their (no doubt) meticulously negotiated £10m a year deal and fuck off? That's called biting the hand that feeds you.

[Bailey]

7 minutes ago, MikeO said:

But he didn't "allow" them to do it, they took it upon themselves; and how was he supposed to "ruthlessly address" it? Tell them to take their (no doubt) meticulously negotiated £10m a year deal and fuck off? That's called biting the hand that feeds you.

Considering the exposure of the EPL they are lucky to have us & not the other way around. Its more like biting the hand of the person you feed!

[Matt]

39 minutes ago, MikeO said:

But he didn't "allow" them to do it, they took it upon themselves; and how was he supposed to "ruthlessly address" it? Tell them to take their (no doubt) meticulously negotiated £10m a year deal and fuck off? That's called biting the hand that feeds you.

 

30 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Considering the exposure of the EPL they are lucky to have us & not the other way around. Its more like biting the hand of the person you feed!

This. It should’ve been made very clear that if they repeated their gaff, the contract would be cancelled and we’d go elsewhere. Treat us with respect of suffer the consequences. There are other companies out there who would pay good money to get global exposure, without making a mockery of the source of that exposure 

[markjazzbassist]

for me it boils down to this.  with bill the financials were a mess, but he always made sure the football was decent and he was smart/shrewd somewhat in transfers and sales and with manager hires.  Moyes and Martinez were (again remember the time, financial situation, etc) great managers who did a ton with little money available (lukaku for 28 and sold for 90, enough said).  we have millions now and great financies but the football sucks.  i don't follow everton for the accounting statements, i follow for the football matches.  this is why Bill has gotten more respect from me and moshiri less.

 

moshiri gets the new owner mulligan on koeman, fat sam, and walsh, but who he appoints after could be the makings of him or the end of him.  these will be forgiven, he's new, doesn't know what he's doing, etc.  but if he screws it up again the fans will go wild and there will be moshiri out banners if we are mid-bottom table team regularly.

[Quinn31]

2 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

for me it boils down to this.  with bill the financials were a mess, but he always made sure the football was decent and he was smart/shrewd somewhat in transfers and sales and with manager hires.  Moyes and Martinez were (again remember the time, financial situation, etc) great managers who did a ton with little money available (lukaku for 28 and sold for 90, enough said).  we have millions now and great financies but the football sucks.  i don't follow everton for the accounting statements, i follow for the football matches.  this is why Bill has gotten more respect from me and moshiri less.

 

moshiri gets the new owner mulligan on koeman, fat sam, and walsh, but who he appoints after could be the makings of him or the end of him.  these will be forgiven, he's new, doesn't know what he's doing, etc.  but if he screws it up again the fans will go wild and there will be moshiri out banners if we are mid-bottom table team regularly.

How do you know this?

Think it's all a bit silly since I can remember when signing Straq and Drenthe on loan was the extent of our summer business, or when we signed Beckford from League One as well as Magaye Gueye and Joao Silva.

Think this summer will be crucial for us on appointing the right manager if we don't keep Sam as well as finding the right back four - Baines needs replacing and we probably need to move on at least a few of Funes Mori, Williams, Jags. Two huge tasks and that's assuming that Tosun kicks on and becomes the number 9 we need.

[markjazzbassist]

7 minutes ago, Quinn31 said:

How do you know this?

Think it's all a bit silly since I can remember when signing Straq and Drenthe on loan was the extent of our summer business, or when we signed Beckford from League One as well as Magaye Gueye and Joao Silva.

Think this summer will be crucial for us on appointing the right manager if we don't keep Sam as well as finding the right back four - Baines needs replacing and we probably need to move on at least a few of Funes Mori, Williams, Jags. Two huge tasks and that's assuming that Tosun kicks on and becomes the number 9 we need.

there were bill out banners during martinez reign.  don't you remember the one flown over goodison?  

[Quinn31]

14 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

there were bill out banners during martinez reign.  don't you remember the one flown over goodison?  

I'm familiar because the club were skint. If one thinks a few banners are going to force out investors who have hundreds of millions of pounds tied into the club, they're naive.

[markjazzbassist]

24 minutes ago, Quinn31 said:

I'm familiar because the club were skint. If one thinks a few banners are going to force out investors who have hundreds of millions of pounds tied into the club, they're naive.

very defeatist.   i do believe the fans make a difference.  not to mention who's the scouser now skint?

[Matt]

25 minutes ago, Quinn31 said:

I'm familiar because the club were skint. If one thinks a few banners are going to force out investors who have hundreds of millions of pounds tied into the club, they're naive.

They might not think they’ll get rid of the owners, but it would still be a way of showing discontent and Im with MJB on this, I can see it happening 

[Romey 1878]

6 minutes ago, Matt said:

They might not think they’ll get rid of the owners, but it would still be a way of showing discontent and Im with MJB on this, I can see it happening 

If he keeps the current manager past the summer I can see it happening for sure. 

[Matt]

8 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

If he keeps the current manager past the summer I can see it happening for sure. 

At this rate, I can see it happening well before the end of the season 

[Quinn31]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

They might not think they’ll get rid of the owners, but it would still be a way of showing discontent and Im with MJB on this, I can see it happening 

As much as I think fans should have a voice, I hope our fans don't start behaving like Newcastle fans and fluctuate only between extreme anger and extreme elation. 

 

[Bailey]

3 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

for me it boils down to this.  with bill the financials were a mess, but he always made sure the football was decent and he was smart/shrewd somewhat in transfers and sales and with manager hires.  Moyes and Martinez were (again remember the time, financial situation, etc) great managers who did a ton with little money available (lukaku for 28 and sold for 90, enough said).  we have millions now and great financies but the football sucks.  i don't follow everton for the accounting statements, i follow for the football matches.  this is why Bill has gotten more respect from me and moshiri less.

 

moshiri gets the new owner mulligan on koeman, fat sam, and walsh, but who he appoints after could be the makings of him or the end of him.  these will be forgiven, he's new, doesn't know what he's doing, etc.  but if he screws it up again the fans will go wild and there will be moshiri out banners if we are mid-bottom table team regularly.

It raises the prospect of what model of management really is better.

I must admit I was sold on the Southampton style of DoF and first team coach combination where the scouting and recruitment was separate from the coach but now I am not so sure again. I thought it would promote a consistency to the club from picking the right coach and getting the right players and making sure that any change in manager didnt cause a massive upheaval.

The problem with that model, especially in relation to the last couple of years with us, is that the link between the scouts, the DoF and then the first team coach aren't good enough. Even Bill said in the AGM that he did some deals and Walsh did others and that surely can't be right. When you look at our signings since both Walsh & Koeman came in they look confused. You don't look at the group of players that we have signed and think, "I can see what they are doing here". It will continue if Walcott signs.

At least with a manager that is directly involved in the scouting and signing of the players, you know that they have a clear plan for them in the starting 11. Its not a case of "you are getting x player now deal with it" as it would seem from some of the deals this summer.

Going back to Southampton thought, it might have been different had they not given Puel the boot, especially after they got them to a cup final.

[markjazzbassist]

1 minute ago, Bailey said:

It raises the prospect of what model of management really is better.

I must admit I was sold on the Southampton style of DoF and first team coach combination where the scouting and recruitment was separate from the coach but now I am not so sure again. I thought it would promote a consistency to the club from picking the right coach and getting the right players and making sure that any change in manager didnt cause a massive upheaval.

The problem with that model, especially in relation to the last couple of years with us, is that the link between the scouts, the DoF and then the first team coach aren't good enough. Even Bill said in the AGM that he did some deals and Walsh did others and that surely can't be right. When you look at our signings since both Walsh & Koeman came in they look confused. You don't look at the group of players that we have signed and think, "I can see what they are doing here". It will continue if Walcott signs.

At least with a manager that is directly involved in the scouting and signing of the players, you know that they have a clear plan for them in the starting 11. Its not a case of "you are getting x player now deal with it" as it would seem from some of the deals this summer.

Going back to Southampton thought, it might have been different had they not given Puel the boot, especially after they got them to a cup final.

good post bailey.  i prefer the "one man does all" approach ala Moyes or Martinez.  That way its fully integrated (you don't have potential DOF/manager communication or other issues) and one person takes the fall.  If you have a style you like, you recruit for that style and know the types of players you want. 

[Quinn31]

9 minutes ago, Bailey said:

It raises the prospect of what model of management really is better.

I must admit I was sold on the Southampton style of DoF and first team coach combination where the scouting and recruitment was separate from the coach but now I am not so sure again. I thought it would promote a consistency to the club from picking the right coach and getting the right players and making sure that any change in manager didnt cause a massive upheaval.

The problem with that model, especially in relation to the last couple of years with us, is that the link between the scouts, the DoF and then the first team coach aren't good enough. Even Bill said in the AGM that he did some deals and Walsh did others and that surely can't be right. When you look at our signings since both Walsh & Koeman came in they look confused. You don't look at the group of players that we have signed and think, "I can see what they are doing here". It will continue if Walcott signs.

At least with a manager that is directly involved in the scouting and signing of the players, you know that they have a clear plan for them in the starting 11. Its not a case of "you are getting x player now deal with it" as it would seem from some of the deals this summer.

Going back to Southampton thought, it might have been different had they not given Puel the boot, especially after they got them to a cup final.

Excellent post.

We could have as big or larger of a problem in terms of personnel working together than plain incompetence. We could have good people who just don't know how to work together.

Confusion between Walsh and the manager on who signs the players and is in charge of recruitment - it used to be all Moyes or Martinez - even Bill seems to get involved here

Bill and Moshiri now share the decisionmaking where as it used to be all Bill - now Bill is chairman and knows the club better but Moshiri has the real say because he's the money

 

The teams that seem to work well with the DoF model seem to have a set football philosophy, and a Director and Scouting team that knows what they need and can plug and play to whoever is the manager, someone always familiar with the philosophy that the club have.

[Shukes]

26 minutes ago, Quinn31 said:

As much as I think fans should have a voice, I hope our fans don't start behaving like Newcastle fans and fluctuate only between extreme anger and extreme elation. 

 

No need to worry mate, we fluctuate between miserable twats and suicidal twats!

[Bailey]

1 hour ago, Quinn31 said:

Excellent post.

We could have as big or larger of a problem in terms of personnel working together than plain incompetence. We could have good people who just don't know how to work together.

Confusion between Walsh and the manager on who signs the players and is in charge of recruitment - it used to be all Moyes or Martinez - even Bill seems to get involved here

Bill and Moshiri now share the decisionmaking where as it used to be all Bill - now Bill is chairman and knows the club better but Moshiri has the real say because he's the money

 

The teams that seem to work well with the DoF model seem to have a set football philosophy, and a Director and Scouting team that knows what they need and can plug and play to whoever is the manager, someone always familiar with the philosophy that the club have.

I think the last part is the most important. You do need a set philosophy between all three otherwise there is a conflict. Think of Koeman's time, you had nostalgic Bill, sit deep and counter Walsh and Koeman's unknown brand of shite football (that he called total football).

I am also a bit surprised that we gave our first DoF role to someone who had never been a DoF. Does that not seem a bit odd?

 

[StevO]

I agree with pretty much everyone here, but what we are talking about in terms of the DoF role and the set philosophy (I hate that word in football) and a team of staff who all work to the same plan takes time. Not just a year or two. Les Reed did a great job at Southampton, but hes been there almost 8 years. They weren't in the Premier League when he got started there. It all takes time. I'm not saying Walsh is the man, but this is a big change for the club, the day to day running is different. Its not like Bill is used to change either, look a his tenure at the club. Hes always kept people in their positions of years and years. I still think hes part of the problem. We have too many people in good jobs at the club who accept mediocre as an achievement. Real change is needed, not fire everyone and start again. But we certainly need a new CEO, with ambition, and maybe Bills role as a chairman needs to be more of a PR thing than a hands on thing. Whatever happens over the coming years, Moshiri will be propping up the finances and he's going to bring in his own guys, I hope he brings in the right people with the right ambition and the right plan to get there.

[jofanon]

Watford sack Silva and immediately appoint Garcia

Compare that to the farce of Koemans departure

we need to remove a lot of people from Everton

[rubecula]

On 21/01/2018 at 19:09, jofanon said:

Watford sack Silva and immediately appoint Garcia

Compare that to the farce of Koemans departure

we need to remove a lot of people from Everton

name and shame Jofanon.  

[Louis]

Has there been any talk of how possible US sanctions against Alisher Usmanov could have an affect on Moshiri? The sanctions list will be published on 29th.

[jofanon]

17 hours ago, rubecula said:

name and shame Jofanon.  

Arsenal sell Sanchez and have a top replacement lined up

We are just embarrassing.

Elstone, Kenwright & Walsh all need to go.

 

[plaidharper]

2 hours ago, Louis said:

Has there been any talk of how possible US sanctions against Alisher Usmanov could have an affect on Moshiri? The sanctions list will be published on 29th.

Interesting.  Do follow up when the list is posted.

[rubecula]

5 hours ago, jofanon said:

Arsenal sell Sanchez and have a top replacement lined up

We are just embarrassing.

Elstone, Kenwright & Walsh all need to go.

 

Sanchez went on a swap deal.  but I get your point 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/everton-talking-psv-supremo-marcel-11904198

[markjazzbassist]

1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/everton-talking-psv-supremo-marcel-11904198

 

i take it 1 of 2 ways:

1.  he is going to replace Walsh

2.  article is BS, why would he essential demote himself from DOF to big shot scout.  i get the prem is bigger but it's a downgrade of a job.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

i take it 1 of 2 ways:
1.  he is going to replace Walsh
2.  article is BS, why would he essential demote himself from DOF to big shot scout.  i get the prem is bigger but it's a downgrade of a job.

Would you be arsed about a job title if your new job paid double your current wage?

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

http://sportwitness.co.uk/full-story-marcel-brands-everton-chelsea-approached-steve-walsh-edged-aside/