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if we had a buy out in 2004 (big investment) bill wouldn't have had time to get his hands on it. Also, how many teams in 2004 had big investment. It's completely different in the next yen years cause the gulf will be too big soon and there will only be one team in liverpool. Also liverpool were supposedly 24 hours from bankruptcy yet look at them now. Never looked back. Some times chances need to be taken.

When Johnson was spending big left, right and centre where you sitting there wishing for more stability or where you excited by the future prospect of everton becoming a big power again? I'll answer it, it was the latter. If bill kenwright advised fans on how much the club is up for sale for and gave in depth analysis on every possible buyer / offer them and only then would I be satisfied cause the man is hiding information and holding back possible buy out scenarios to gain stature. Think what you like, he will always be a fake to me.

 

Pointless debate. Completely laughable argument for me so no point in taking this any further; stay in your blinkered dwindling minority and be happy slagging the man off with like minded blues. Whatever makes you happy.

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Pointless debate. Completely laughable argument for me so no point in taking this any further; stay in your blinkered dwindling minority and be happy slagging the man off with like minded blues. Whatever makes you happy.

Being a minority doesn't automatically make it wrong. Follow the crowd and keep biging up bill. Its laughable how he gains plaudits for the way he has handled the club.

We have had successful seasons because of what's happened on the pitch. Granted, he made the managerial appointments but over the years he's sold the likes of Rooney, arteta, Lescott, rodwell, fellaini, which in turn, has helped line our managers pockets. Even then the ratio outgoings / incomings doesn't add up.

We've been a stable club over the past ten years, not due to BK but due to the players and the manager.

And to say I'm blinkered is (pot calling kettle) cause take out lukaku deal, any other transfers have been down to RM's persuasion and Wigan links.

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There are only 2 dealings in which Bill has failed in my opinion; Kings Dock and Robert Elstone. Otherwise, he has done good work.

 

Externalizing is the norm in big business, as is selling off assets that dont create a profit on an annual basis for a lump sum. From what I understand, it helps with your CAPEX and OPEX meaning you get to be more creative with your books and save money. So theres nothing special or surprising about how we have gone about our business. As for knowing the price of the club, like it or not it has nothing to do with us and would be a suicide move in negotiations to make it public. People not knowing is for the good of the club, whether you like it or not.

 

If you want to hate, at least get facts right and be constructive with your arguments. For example, Elstone is responsible for the pathetic deal with Kitbag and Chang, not Kenwright. So point fingers, if you must, at the right person. Be balanced, accept the good and bad (I dont mean 1 single statement along the lines of "well yeah, hes done one or 2 good things but what about....").

 

And dont get me started on Johnson....

 

I cant believe I've let myself get caught up in this debate again. Haf, please dont bite :P

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There are only 2 dealings in which Bill has failed in my opinion; Kings Dock and Robert Elstone. Otherwise, he has done good work.

 

You don't think Destination Kirkby was a failure? You don't think giving a manager the NTL money before we had it putting us into financial trouble for a long time was a failure?

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You don't think Destination Kirkby was a failure? You don't think giving a manager the NTL money before we had it putting us into financial trouble for a long time was a failure?

like I said, if you want to finger point, aim it at the right person ;)
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Bill made two sound managerial appointments. They have and probably will save his arse.

 

However the kings dock failure, the fortress fund lies, NTL spend against money that wasnt there. The flawed Kirby proposal which seen millions squandered.

 

Cloak and dagger goings on with the likes of Ian Ross and banning agms all just indicate wrong doings at our club.

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CEO in my opinion, but I'm not getting dragged into all this again ;)

Facts are kenwright is responsible.

 

Kirkby project originated in 2006, Elstone took over as CEO in 2008

 

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/deal-away---two-hours-3561125

 

The NTL fiasco was a complete and utter mess. Authorising £19m transfer spend without anything being signed plunging us into massive debt that wasn't able to be controlled.

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Like I said, I'm not going into this again.

If it was down to opinion Matt then I would say fair enough, but you are stating something that is factually incorrect.

 

The fact is that Kenwright pushed for Kirby, he stated goodison was about to lose its safety certificate which was a lie.

 

He also "sanctioned" the spending of money we didn't have which crippled us in interest costs leaving us at the banks mercy, this ironically meaning he couldn't sanction much needed transfers in later years.

 

He has got credit for "finding" the money to buy lukaku, but he escapes criticism for spending money we didn't have?

 

Nah not having it.

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I'm a big critic of his. I genuinely think he thinks he is doing whats best 100% of the time.

 

He lied about the FSF, i think because he wanted to keep hold of the club and thought he was the best man for the job, even though i disagree with it. unforgivable lies.

 

NTL was a strange one, no one was expecting them to fold like they did. Counted his chickens before they had hatched in my book, probably not wanting to miss out on transfer targets. but still a massive failure.

 

Kirkby was a massive fuck up, and an expensive one, i do think he expected it would go ahead, and that investment would follow (maybe he had something lined up but we will never know). divided the fans big time, luckily these divides have closed considerably.

 

banning AGMs, a bit petulant to be honest, i dont want to answer questions from these fellas who dont like me so i'll just shut up shop until they back off. indefensable, he owes the shareholders the chance to ask what they like, its his responsability to do so.

 

Some things are not forgivable for me, and i never will, the Kings dock was the one time we really needed to find the money, any chance of progress was missed in that deal going out the window and i will always remember him as the man who could not deliver it.

 

But i will give him credit, he has steadied the ship, he has brought in managers who have done a great job, he has kept us afloat. The times he has had to sell players to keep the wolves from the door will have hurt him as much as us. He wont have wanted to sell Rooney, but he had to to keep the club from going under. I'm still gutted about that now, but i understand.

 

he is very far from perfect, but hes done what he could with what he had. When we've worried about the future of the club, without the full facts, he has been the one with the real pressure. he doesnt want to be the man who ruined Everton, i hope for his sake he pulls off the ground move and when he leaves it will be as the hero he wants to be, not the villian that cost us.

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How is it that you feel Kenwright failed with KD but it was someone else's fault with Kirkby?

Kenwright seems to get a torrid time off some, and an easy ride off the rest.

 

I can find some positives for Kenwright, but unfortunately the negatives have been glaring.

 

He's not the worst chairman in the world, The venkys etc ensure that we can't be too critical of Bill and always mean that cautious fans are scared of selling the club.

 

However the trail of destruction that many of his poor decisions have caused means that we were at Moyes mercy for so long as a book balancer as opposed to a cavalier progressive manager.

 

We may be getting somewhere now but we have lost so much ground, we are playing in an outdated stadium with little to no commercial opportunities versus our rivals. We continue to look second rate off the field and have embarrassing amateur mistakes continuously made.

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I'm a big critic of his. I genuinely think he thinks he is doing whats best 100% of the time.

 

He lied about the FSF, i think because he wanted to keep hold of the club and thought he was the best man for the job, even though i disagree with it. unforgivable lies.

 

NTL was a strange one, no one was expecting them to fold like they did. Counted his chickens before they had hatched in my book, probably not wanting to miss out on transfer targets. but still a massive failure.

 

Kirkby was a massive fuck up, and an expensive one, i do think he expected it would go ahead, and that investment would follow (maybe he had something lined up but we will never know). divided the fans big time, luckily these divides have closed considerably.

 

banning AGMs, a bit petulant to be honest, i dont want to answer questions from these fellas who dont like me so i'll just shut up shop until they back off. indefensable, he owes the shareholders the chance to ask what they like, its his responsability to do so.

 

Some things are not forgivable for me, and i never will, the Kings dock was the one time we really needed to find the money, any chance of progress was missed in that deal going out the window and i will always remember him as the man who could not deliver it.

 

But i will give him credit, he has steadied the ship, he has brought in managers who have done a great job, he has kept us afloat. The times he has had to sell players to keep the wolves from the door will have hurt him as much as us. He wont have wanted to sell Rooney, but he had to to keep the club from going under. I'm still gutted about that now, but i understand.

 

he is very far from perfect, but hes done what he could with what he had. When we've worried about the future of the club, without the full facts, he has been the one with the real pressure. he doesnt want to be the man who ruined Everton, i hope for his sake he pulls off the ground move and when he leaves it will be as the hero he wants to be, not the villian that cost us.

 

Agree with every word.

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Agree with every word.

 

Thanks Mark, i do try my best :wub:

 

 

Would you go into business with BK? The answer would always be no, no,no. The honesty is not there which can be backed up on numerous points stevo has covered. Without honesty lies deceit. Never to be trusted.

 

I'd make a theatre production with him, guaranteed return on investment!

 

This might sound a bit daft, but maybe a new stadium could include a little theatre and make some money from his talents on the side.

Edited by StevO
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Like I said, I'm not going into this again.

But you did go into it. If you didn't want to then why post earlier?

 

The past posts have been factual, not a pulse survey. If we appraised Kenwright using pulse surveys everything would be Rosie after signing Rom, Besic, a good finish to last year etc.

 

The thing is, some of us have good memories.

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Can't believe Im going to repeat myself again and get myself stuck in this stupid debate for the umpteenth ...

 

CEO is someone responsible for getting things realized, Chairman will initiate ideas and act as a spokes man. If a project is launched before the CEO is appointed, so what? Its the CEO and the project team to implement and ongoing project.

 

I dont talk about FSF because I don't know enough about it, same with NTL. I am not defending or agreeing because I havent the information available to formalize an educated opinion. If someone whats to show me project charters, budgets and timelines, etc. I'll happily educate myself and form an opinion. If BK is "factually" at fault, show me evidence.

 

Mark, you have a fair point. I should be pointing my finger at the old CEO instead of BK for Kings Dock, but since I can't remember who that is at the moment, and since it happened whilst BK was in charge, I'm finger pointing incorrectly because of ignorance.

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The downside of billionaire owners. Nottingham Forest have had the name of their ground changed. According to newspaper reports, they have also sold two players to Newcastle without the managers knowledge. Stuart Pearce said that the first he heard about it was when one of the players told him he had a medical at 2.00pm in Newcastle.

At least with Bill we know that, unlike Cardiff, our shirts will never be changed to red. Or, unlike Hull, the name of the club will be sacrosanct.

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I'm a big critic of his. I genuinely think he thinks he is doing whats best 100% of the time.

 

He lied about the FSF, i think because he wanted to keep hold of the club and thought he was the best man for the job, even though i disagree with it. unforgivable lies.

 

NTL was a strange one, no one was expecting them to fold like they did. Counted his chickens before they had hatched in my book, probably not wanting to miss out on transfer targets. but still a massive failure.

 

Kirkby was a massive fuck up, and an expensive one, i do think he expected it would go ahead, and that investment would follow (maybe he had something lined up but we will never know). divided the fans big time, luckily these divides have closed considerably.

 

banning AGMs, a bit petulant to be honest, i dont want to answer questions from these fellas who dont like me so i'll just shut up shop until they back off. indefensable, he owes the shareholders the chance to ask what they like, its his responsability to do so.

 

Some things are not forgivable for me, and i never will, the Kings dock was the one time we really needed to find the money, any chance of progress was missed in that deal going out the window and i will always remember him as the man who could not deliver it.

 

But i will give him credit, he has steadied the ship, he has brought in managers who have done a great job, he has kept us afloat. The times he has had to sell players to keep the wolves from the door will have hurt him as much as us. He wont have wanted to sell Rooney, but he had to to keep the club from going under. I'm still gutted about that now, but i understand.

 

he is very far from perfect, but hes done what he could with what he had. When we've worried about the future of the club, without the full facts, he has been the one with the real pressure. he doesnt want to be the man who ruined Everton, i hope for his sake he pulls off the ground move and when he leaves it will be as the hero he wants to be, not the villian that cost us.

Great post StevO!

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The downside of billionaire owners. Nottingham Forest have had the name of their ground changed. According to newspaper reports, they have also sold two players to Newcastle without the managers knowledge. Stuart Pearce said that the first he heard about it was when one of the players told him he had a medical at 2.00pm in Newcastle.

At least with Bill we know that, unlike Cardiff, our shirts will never be changed to red. Or, unlike Hull, the name of the club will be sacrosanct.

Exactly. It's like the upper middle class kid who's got a great life and wonderful family but sees his rich kid friends and wishes he was rich. Only to realize that the rich kids are a bunch of coked up ass holes who's fathers neglect them and couldn't give 2 shits about them.

 

Grass isn't always greener. For every man city there are 5-10 Portsmouth, not forest, Cardiff, Etc

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But you did go into it. If you didn't want to then why post earlier?

 

The past posts have been factual, not a pulse survey. If we appraised Kenwright using pulse surveys everything would be Rosie after signing Rom, Besic, a good finish to last year etc.

 

The thing is, some of us have good memories.

Basically because I thought I had more time and patience than I have.

 

Some of us think we have good memories but can't back them up. The posts are headlines. As I've asked many times before, and rarely got an answer, I'd like to see written detailed proof of the events. Except this time, I simply don't care. I can defend him because I don't have all the facts, people shouldn't slate him without all the facts.

 

But quite honestly, I couldn't give a shit at the moment.

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CEO is someone responsible for getting things realized, Chairman will initiate ideas and act as a spokes man. If a project is launched before the CEO is appointed, so what? Its the CEO and the project team to implement and ongoing project.

 

I dont talk about FSF because I don't know enough about it, same with NTL. I am not defending or agreeing because I havent the information available to formalize an educated opinion. If someone whats to show me project charters, budgets and timelines, etc. I'll happily educate myself and form an opinion. If BK is "factually" at fault, show me evidence.

 

Mark, you have a fair point. I should be pointing my finger at the old CEO instead of BK for Kings Dock, but since I can't remember who that is at the moment, and since it happened whilst BK was in charge, I'm finger pointing incorrectly because of ignorance.

 

CEO only executes the strategy set by the board who in turn are responsible for the owners. In our case these two are the same. It was the board - in which Kenwright is the chairman - that proposed the Kirkby project and despite being told that it would face problems & would be bad for the club, still pressed ahead. He had all the power in the world to stop the project.

 

FSF was - and this has been confirmed by Ian Ross - just a means to an end to get rid of Gregg. Who of course would have financed King's Dock but wanted more control of the club. Which didn't suit Bill. It had nothing to do with the CEO. Everton needed 30 million pounds. Gregg said he can provide it. Good ol' Billy came up with the FSF scam.

 

http://www.keioc.net/index.php?page=kirkby-our-view

http://toffeeweb.com/season/11-12/news/20308.html

 

Especially for Kirkby there's so much information that you should be able to formalize an opinion if you are willing to put in an effort.

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CEO only executes the strategy set by the board who in turn are responsible for the owners. In our case these two are the same. It was the board - in which Kenwright is the chairman - that proposed the Kirkby project and despite being told that it would face problems & would be bad for the club, still pressed ahead. He had all the power in the world to stop the project.

 

FSF was - and this has been confirmed by Ian Ross - just a means to an end to get rid of Gregg. Who of course would have financed King's Dock but wanted more control of the club. Which didn't suit Bill. It had nothing to do with the CEO. Everton needed 30 million pounds. Gregg said he can provide it. Good ol' Billy came up with the FSF scam.

 

http://www.keioc.net/index.php?page=kirkby-our-view

http://toffeeweb.com/season/11-12/news/20308.html

 

Especially for Kirkby there's so much information that you should be able to formalize an opinion if you are willing to put in an effort.

 

Kings Dock collapsed in April 2003 and FSF didn't happen until late 2004 so I don't see how there's a connection there.

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CEO only executes the strategy set by the board who in turn are responsible for the owners. In our case these two are the same. It was the board - in which Kenwright is the chairman - that proposed the Kirkby project and despite being told that it would face problems & would be bad for the club, still pressed ahead. He had all the power in the world to stop the project.

 

FSF was - and this has been confirmed by Ian Ross - just a means to an end to get rid of Gregg. Who of course would have financed King's Dock but wanted more control of the club. Which didn't suit Bill. It had nothing to do with the CEO. Everton needed 30 million pounds. Gregg said he can provide it. Good ol' Billy came up with the FSF scam.

 

http://www.keioc.net/index.php?page=kirkby-our-view

http://toffeeweb.com/season/11-12/news/20308.html

 

Especially for Kirkby there's so much information that you should be able to formalize an opinion if you are willing to put in an effort.

despite the condescending phrase at the end (if its not intended, I apologize, just been a really shit 2 days), I appreciate the links. Though quoting a forum (who is quoting another forum) isn't really good evidence to base an opinion. KEIOC have been very balanced for the most part, despite being an opposition group, I will go over it all again (as its been a few years since I was up to date on the details) when I get the time.

Edited by Matt
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