Shukes Posted May 4, 2016 Report Share Posted May 4, 2016 Was it with kids? I'm talking about adult football 11 vs 11 everything else is irrelevant really and has no benefit that I can see of anyway "The English FA rules concerning short-sided football (5, 6 and 7-a-side) does not include the offside rule. This is restricted to 11s only." With adults too. But yes was 9 against 9 not 11 against 11. It as designed to have players have to deal with breaks and counter attacking football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 4, 2016 Report Share Posted May 4, 2016 With adults too. But yes was 9 against 9 not 11 against 11. It as designed to have players have to deal with breaks and counter attacking football. but in 11 a side, the counter attack is meaningless if the attacking team is offside. I really don't get the logic behind this at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted May 4, 2016 Report Share Posted May 4, 2016 It's to stop counter attacks running straight through you while your defense stand there waiting for a flag. You just shouldn't rely on it, always hold your line but presume they are on. Not saying that's what Martinez is doing, just that it's nothing new. It's a pretty standard exercise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted May 4, 2016 Report Share Posted May 4, 2016 I can see the benefit to the defenders, especially the way we defend anything could help, but for the strikers it's a wasted exercise to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 I can see the benefit to the defenders, especially the way we defend anything could help, but for the strikers it's a wasted exercise to me. In my experience, it is indeed a training routine designed to help defenders. Other routines are designed to help mostly forwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 All I want to know is: did the drill involve yellow cards? Sorry, peteO. Just a little banter. You and I are in the same boat regarding Jags as captain, but I can't resist a good joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 All I want to know is: did the drill involve yellow cards? Sorry, peteO. Just a little banter. You and I are in the same boat regarding Jags as captain, but I can't resist a good joke. No need to apologise :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 Seriously how can you train no offsides in 11 a side? If you aren't playing no offsides in a match then how is it beneficial? It isn't going to benefit either strikers or defenders because it's a key part of the game. Lukaku for one is poor at shaping and timing his runs and it needs work. Our defence gets sprung all the time so how does it help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 In my experience, it is indeed a training routine designed to help defenders. Other routines are designed to help mostly forwards. i just don't see it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 Seriously how can you train no offsides in 11 a side? If you aren't playing no offsides in a match then how is it beneficial? It isn't going to benefit either strikers or defenders because it's a key part of the game. Lukaku for one is poor at shaping and timing his runs and it needs work. Our defence gets sprung all the time so how does it help? Don't think anyone's saying it benefits 11 a side Haf....Though it may explain why Rom looks dumbfounded everytime a flag goes up haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 (edited) i just don't see itDitto How can it help defenders hold a line when the rule involving the "line" isn't in place.. Not disputing you lads using it or seeing it more that I find it bonkers Martinez is using such daft training routines, surely constantly drilling defenders on holding a line and using a fundamental rule of the game would benefit them far more Just another indication the man's a plank if true Edited May 5, 2016 by EFC-Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 The reason Rom gets caught offside so much is that he doesn't know the offside rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 No offsides, no practising set pieces, limited fitness pre season in favour of ball work, fitness coaches leaving... not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 No offsides, no practising set pieces, limited fitness pre season in favour of ball work, fitness coaches leaving... not good.The fitness is what's most shocking to me honestly. I've never seen a more lethargic group of players in a match at that same time (and in the same team). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 The fitness is what's most shocking to me honestly. I've never seen a more lethargic group of players in a match at that same time (and in the same team). Lukaku and Barkley look like they should be working the doors. I said this a while ago and people said they needed the muscle... far too much muscle. I look at alexi sanchez and he has too much posey muscle for his frame. Gerry deulofeu looks way too out of condition versus the racing snake condition he was in years before. Even the fittest player at the club baines looked knackered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 Lukaku and Barkley look like they should be working the doors. I said this a while ago and people said they needed the muscle... far too much muscle. I look at alexi sanchez and he has too much posey muscle for his frame. Gerry deulofeu looks way too out of condition versus the racing snake condition he was in years before. Even the fittest player at the club baines looked knackered. yeah if the board keep martinez lets hope they force him to hire a physio and fitness coach. we need both badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 Ditto How can it help defenders hold a line when the rule involving the "line" isn't in place.. Not disputing you lads using it or seeing it more that I find it bonkers Martinez is using such daft training routines, surely constantly drilling defenders on holding a line and using a fundamental rule of the game would benefit them far more Just another indication the man's a plank if true It's totally the opposite to holding the line though. The idea is not to sit and wait for a flag. Keep a good line and then break when you have runners. Premier level defenders should be past needing practise to keep a line....should be haha. No one said they don't practise set pieces either. Even the players have come out and laughed at that. Fitness...from what I have seen its not fitness but motivation that's the issue. Against utd we looked the fitter team at the end...they just nicked a goal. What we lack is effort and motivation. Motivation is a managers main focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 always hold your line but presume they are on. I get your drift Shukes but it's daft logic (not yours mate) if a forward is doing such a routine he'll just sit slightly off if he's told to play as he would (onside) in normal circumstances then any logic to the exercise goes out of the window the same goes for the defenders but the opposite Anyway I can't see anything benifitial from it personally but hey ho as said if he's using such methods then it shows he's a tit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 Shukes, just one point. One person did say they don't practice set pieces, Leon Osman. And he directly quoted Graham Jones saying why practice them when there are maybe three per game, when we could practice ball work instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 I get your drift Shukes but it's daft logic (not yours mate) if a forward is doing such a routine he'll just sit slightly off if he's told to play as he would (onside) in normal circumstances then any logic to the exercise goes out of the window the same goes for the defenders but the opposite Anyway I can't see anything benifitial from it personally but hey ho as said if he's using such methods then it shows he's a tit I see what you mean. For it to work it would need to he structured in a way that gives the attackers an advantage to start. When we did it, it was a training exercise with instructions....not really a match as such. Roberto probably has them doing something completely different....and ineffective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 Shukes, just one point. One person did say they don't practice set pieces, Leon Osman. And he directly quoted Graham Jones saying why practice them when there are maybe three per game, when we could practice ball work instead. Wasn't it Osman that said they practise them, just not as much as they do open okay. I might have the wrong person. But one of them said...of course we practise them. Could be baines actually, not sure haha. Philosophy is there, just not sure it works. We always practised them. Part of our basic set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 Logic behind it is scientifically accurate. Football isn't a game of logic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 (edited) Personally, I coached for about 20 years, and my oldest son ended up captaining his college team (which, in the US, is a big deal). I would come up with training routines that addressed particular problems. No offsides was a common rule. In some circumstances, I'd let players use their hands. No headers was another. Strict rules about positioning was another. Playing with no goalie. I once even thought about tying pairs of opposing players together with a length of rope. It all depends on what you're trying to achieve. Frankly, anything goes, so long as it achieves the desired result. Edited May 5, 2016 by Cornish Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 I once even thought about tying pairs of opposing players together with a length of rope. You'd have been arrested for that one . Cornish Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 Personally, I coached for about 20 years, and my oldest son ended up captaining his college team (which, in the US, is a big deal). I would come up with training routines that addressed particular problems. No offsides was a common rule. In some circumstances, I'd let players use their hands. No headers was another. Strict rules about positioning was another. Playing with no goalie. I once even thought about tying pairs of opposing players together with a length of rope. It all depends on what you're trying to achieve. Frankly, anything goes, so long as it achieves the desired result.Good stuff Steve, nice to hear a thinking Evertonian to stop the witch hunt on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 You'd have been arrested for that one . It sounds funny, I know, but I'd planned to tie a 4-foot length of rope to each players's wrist, so they would always be four feet or less from the opposing player. I couldn't get them to very closely mark another player, especially at speed, so this would have forced them to do so. The truth is I didn't want to spend the money on the rope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 If you tied Lukaku and Ross together the rope would never be anything but slack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 Personally, I coached for about 20 years, and my oldest son ended up captaining his college team (which, in the US, is a big deal). I would come up with training routines that addressed particular problems. No offsides was a common rule. In some circumstances, I'd let players use their hands. No headers was another. Strict rules about positioning was another. Playing with no goalie. I once even thought about tying pairs of opposing players together with a length of rope. It all depends on what you're trying to achieve. Frankly, anything goes, so long as it achieves the desired result. What is the desired result of no offsides though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 I guess it's that the players defend without relying on the referee to make the call? Like clear the ball first then if the linesman flags offside or not it doesn't matter. Just a guess anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 The game should be played with no offsides, it's eleven against eleven and if the attacker wants to spend his time standing in the six yard box it's up to the opponent's to have a player fall back to mark him. Would make for a much more open game and more enjoyable to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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