Kopite Thread

[Guest Nikica]

'LFC fans face travel misery next month for Cup Final day as train companies plan strike action'

 

I can understand their frustrations as I've endured damn travel chaos on the rail network so can sympathize a bit.

 

And What's an English FA cup Final doing, starting at 5 o clock, what the fuck is all that about, you simply take away all the tradition of the competition

Last year the excellent pricks at the FA even had the event on before the season had even finished, they're just making a mockery of tradition these days.

 

http://forums.thisis...p-final-travel/

 

Aye. It is terrible what the Sky era has done to football. Finishing fourth is a bigger prize than winning the oldest trophy in club football, The FA Cup's fall from grace should never have been allowed to happen.

[Dalziel Kane]

I'd rather win the FA cup right now given the choice than a fourth place finish if it were possible, no trophies since 1994-95, we're desperate to win something again, wembley was a massive disappointment for all involved. Champions League soccer is a great achievement, but it's simply doesn't represent an actual trophy won.

 

Do me a favor and don't reply to this, this is a Liverpool thread, not the real appropriate place for it, but just wanted to say nonetheless. Also the FA cup has been lessened in recent years I feel, just not the same anymore, stupid kick off times, played before end of season etc, Fuck the F.A. and all that.

[pete0]

My facebook has been full of how Suarez goal is amazing (he kicked it into an empty net from 45 yards)... fucking morons. You'd moan if he'd missed it. Oh apparently best hattrick ever as well.

[marcopaulo]

steve watson's was better

[Zoo]

My facebook has been full of how Suarez goal is amazing (he kicked it into an empty net from 45 yards)... fucking morons. You'd moan if he'd missed it. Oh apparently best hattrick ever as well.

 

If it would have been Rooney that scored those goals he would have been 'lucky'. It's only the perfect hat-trick because he scored it, I've not even logged onto Facebook today because I know it'd be full of fickle Kopites rimming Luis.

 

On a side note that third kit is fucking quality (although I think the home is actually quite nice - in shirt terms of course, the badge spoils it).

[Guest Nikica]

Come on guys, it was a classy finish by Suarez, if you like that sort of thing. Beckham's goal against Wimbledon was similar and we never hear the end of it from his sycophants.

 

People dislike Suarez and he plays for Liverpool, so I suggest there's a bit of bias here.

 

It won't be a popular opinion on this site, but I am a big fan of Suarez as a player (I won't get into his personality etc). He is a really good link-up player, a fantastic dribbler and can create something out of nothing. I have been watching him since long before he joined Liverpool and he is quality. Suarez is a bit like a lesser man's Aguero. If anyone is overrated in that team, it's Steven 'I've never been able to play central midfield to save my life because my possession game is appalling' Gerrard.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Nikica

[Guest Nikica]

If it would have been Rooney that scored those goals he would have been 'lucky'. It's only the perfect hat-trick because he scored it, I've not even logged onto Facebook today because I know it'd be full of fickle Kopites rimming Luis.

 

On a side note that third kit is fucking quality (although I think the home is actually quite nice - in shirt terms of course, the badge spoils it).

 

Rooney is considered by some to be some sort of footballing genius when he patently is not. There's a lot missing from his game. I'd suggest that had Rooney scored that, we'd be hearing the laughable Messi comparisons again, like we did the season before the World Cup.

 

He was a better player when he broke through at you lot than he is now. He showed a lot of signs back then that he could go onto be a player who could beat teams on his own. His performances at Euro 2004 were stunning. However, he has never became the player he could have.

 

He scores goals but he's missing that X Factor that separates very good players from the absolute best. Messi, Xavi, Ronaldo, Iniesta, Aguero, Robben etc have it. Rooney doesn't. He's still a very good player mind, just not the football god his brown-nosers would have you believe.

 

After the way he shafted Everton I thought he would be a bit less popular around here.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Nikica

[pete0]

Come on guys, it was a classy finish by Suarez, if you like that sort of thing. Beckham's goal against Wimbledon was similar and we never hear the end of it from his sycophants.

 

People dislike Suarez and he plays for Liverpool, so I suggest there's a bit of bias here.

 

It won't be a popular opinion on this site, but I am a big fan of Suarez as a player (I won't get into his personality etc). He is a really good link-up player, a fantastic dribbler and can create something out of nothing. I have been watching him since long before he joined Liverpool and he is quality. Suarez is a bit like a lesser man's Aguero. If anyone is overrated in that team, it's Steven 'I've never been able to play central midfield to save my life because my possession game is appalling' Gerrard.

Di Santo's goal was better and the commentator, Lineker and the rest weren't screaming about it. Keeper is miles off his line, he just hit it and hoped no skill and no where near Beckham's level of precision/technique.

[Guest Nikica]

Di Santo's goal was better and the commentator, Lineker and the rest weren't screaming about it. Keeper is miles off his line, he just hit it and hoped no skill and no where near Beckham's level of precision/technique.

 

If you honestly believe the bolded then we will never agree. Beckham was a bit further out, but it dipped under the crossbar into the centre of the goal. Suarez's was much closer to the side. 'Hit it and hoped' - he clearly knew what he was doing, you can tell that from the way he looked up and how he struck the ball. I realise you hate Liverpool and Suarez but credit where it is due.

 

For what it is worth, I am not a massive fan of either goal, as I believe any decent footballer should be able to chip goalkeepers who are that far off their line (Sullivan was well of his for the Beckham goal). However, if you are into that type of goal, then they are fine examples of it. Me? I personally prefer dribbles like Messi v Getafe, Maradona v England, or Varela for Real Betis to Barcelona. They're harder goals to score, any average player can score a screamer now and then.

 

Figueroa's goal for Wigan against Stoke last season blows both Beckham's and Suarez's out of the water anyway.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Nikica

[Guest Nikica]

Double post.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Nikica

[pete0]

If you honestly believe the bolded then we will never agree. Beckham was a bit further out, but it dipped under the crossbar into the centre of the goal. Suarez's was much closer to the side. 'Hit it and hoped' - he clearly knew what he was doing, you can tell that from the way he looked up and how he struck the ball. I realise you hate Liverpool and Suarez but credit where it is due.

 

For what it is worth, I am not a massive fan of either goal, as I believe any decent footballer should be able to chip goalkeepers who are that far off their line (Sullivan was well of his for the Beckham goal). However, if you are into that type of goal, then they are fine examples of it. Me? I personally prefer dribbles like Messi v Getafe, Maradona v England, or Varela for Real Betis to Barcelona. They're harder goals to score, any average player can score a screamer now and then.

 

Figueroa's goal for Wigan against Stoke last season blows both Beckham's and Suarez's out of the water anyway.

Beckham has scored plenty of chipped goals, whereas Suares' conversion rate sways me to believe he really hasnt got any control and is a hit and hoper.

[Guest Nikica]

Beckham has been overrated his entire career. He looked like a world-class player from 1998-2001, other than that his career is much more style than substance, like he is as an individual. He represents this new wave of celebrity culture as well and also respresents everything that is wrong with society.

 

He's scored a few chipped goals - Suarez has also scored them prior to coming to Liverpool. Beckham used to play long diagonals that were cut out constantly by defenders, but the hype and myth that surrounds the guy would lead you to believe that he passed the ball like Michael Laudrup in his prime. Ugh.

 

Beckham is worshipped in England like he is Zidane. It's very perplexing. Suarez has more footballing ability than Beckham ever had and has produced infinitely more than Beckham ever did at international level, but I suppose because he's not good looking and not English most people don't agree.

 

In terms of English footballers, Beckham has never been fit to sniff the steam from Scholes' urine.

 

Anyway, this is descending into a rant against Beckham, who I despise, so we should leave it there.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Nikica

[pete0]

The celebrity of Beckham makes people forget how good he was. Not many people can pass the ball like Beckham-Alonso comes close, 2nd best freekick taker of his era(after Juninho). Also pulled off a few nice tricks and turns people forget about. Nowhere near Scholes level, but not many people are.

If you genuinely believe Beckham is overhyped, re-watch the Greece game absolutely carried a whole nation on his own.

Edited April 29, 2012 by pete0

[Guest Nikica]

The celebrity of Beckham makes people forget how good he was. Not many people can pass the ball like Beckham-Alonso comes close, had a few tricks as well. Nowhere near Scholes level, but not many people are.

If you genuinely believe Beckham is overhyped, re-watch the Greece game absolutely carried a whole nation on his own.

 

Actually, it's closer to the inverse - Beckham's fame means people remember his performances more fondly than they should, as you aptly demonstrate with reference to the Greece game. In that game, he ran around like a headless chicken for almost the entire 90 minutes (typical British player you might argue, the Brits love a guy who runs around and 'gets stuck in', see Scott Parker). He missed about 7 free-kicks as well before finally scoring the one late on. Even if he hadn't scored it, England would still have played a play off against the Ukraine, so it was hardly the difference between qualifying for the World Cup and not, like his sycophants would have you believe. Once they got to the tournament, Beckham's WAG culture destabilised the team (not the only time), and he jumped out of a tackle with Roberto Carlos which led to Rivaldo's equaliser and ultimately cost England a semi-final spot.

 

As for saying that 'not many people can pass the ball like Beckham' - I find that utterly ridiculous. History is littered with hundreds of players who could pass far better than Beckham. Even if you are referring to long passing, Hollywood balls aren't what really counts in the game. Look at Gerrard for example. Being a genuinely great passer is what the likes of Xavi, Busquets, Iniesta, Scholes, Laudrup, Guardiola, Zico, Maradona (his passing was phenomenal) etc can do - intelligent short passing which retain the ball, not hollywood passes. There's a reason why Beckham was never good enough to play in central midfield. He doesn't even have the vision to play a through ball.

 

Even when it coms to free-kicks, people would have you believe he was by far and away the best of his generation, but Juninho had a far better conversion rate and could score different styles of FK. I'd also say that Sinisa Mihailovic was a better FK taker than Beckham.

 

I am sorry if I come across as condescending here, but I have heard the same things spouted about Beckham before and it's simply hyperbole.

 

If the best you can do to glorify Beckham is mention an overrated headless chicken act against the mighty Greece in a QUALIFIER, I think that proves my point.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Nikica

[Guest Nikica]

Oh, and Alonso is a much better long passer than Beckham. 'Comes close'?

[pete0]

Headless chicken as he had to play 10 positions that day. Passing wise I've seen Alonso have some completely shocking games were his passing and fk's was just off, even when Beckham had a bad game his passing was always spot on and he's better with his left than Alonso is with his right. As for Gerrard he's closer to Neville with his passing, he over hits the hollywoods all day, but motd dont show them hitting the corner flags.

He missed 5 free kicks but his 6th one made us finish above the Germans, how can you not love the man?

[Guest Nikica]

Headless chicken as he had to play 10 positions that day. Passing wise I've seen Alonso have some completely shocking games were his passing and fk's was just off, even when Beckham had a bad game his passing was always spot on and he's better with his left than Alonso is with his right. As for Gerrard he's closer to Neville with his passing, he over hits the hollywoods all day, but motd dont show them hitting the corner flags.

He missed 5 free kicks but his 6th one made us finish above the Germans, how can you not love the man?

 

Had to play ten positions? The game has descended into frothing-at-the-mouth myth, Beckham's performance in that game has been completely exaggerated by the English media, who are suspicious of skill and value 'being brave and a lionheart, giving all for the cause' and all that garbage which is a poor substitute for skill and technique. Beckham ran about like a tool that day, his tactical indiscipline was as bad as Gerrard's in first half the 2005 CL Final, where he was actually the main reason Liverpool were behind at HT. Seriously, watch that game again, forget it's Beckham and all the brown-nosing that surrounds the man, and analyse his performance. It's so naive from a tactical point of view that it borders on laughable. The guy runs about wherever he wants and leaves so much space. Top teams would have punished England that day, but he was playing Greece, not Germany or Brazil.

 

Alonso has had some shockers yes, so what? To say that Beckham has never had a game where his passing hasn't been spot on is a lie, he's played hundreds of Hollywood balls which were easily cut out by defenders. It looks great when it comes off yes, but he's another Gerrard in this respect - always playing the Hollywood ball and not able to play a short pass and move game. That's why he was never good enough to play in central midfield at any point in his career. His crossing was amazing yes, but if he was the brilliant passer you claim he was, don't you think he'd have been moved into central midfield in order to help his team control games? Yet, he never was. Ferguson also knew when to get rid of him, and when he moved to Real Madrid they went from a team who won three CLs and various titles from 1998-2003, to a team who won nothing but a fluky title in Beckham's entire career there. That is not a coincidence.

 

He's very one-footed by the way, he's not got much of a left foot at all. I remember him scoring a goal against Chelsea with it, that's it.

 

I'm not English and prefer Germany to England, so I can 'not love the man' very easily. Despite that, he's a complete narcissist and the celebrity culture he represents is everything that is wrong with football and society in general. He's a total primadonna.

 

There's a reason why the vast majority of football purists treat Beckham with disdain.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Nikica

[Guest Nikica]

Anyway listen, you seem sound, I've liked reading your posts on the forum. But in this case, I just can't agree with anything you are saying.

 

I hope you don't take it personally.

[pete0]

Anyway listen, you seem sound, I've liked reading your posts on the forum. But in this case, I just can't agree with anything you are saying.

 

I hope you don't take it personally.

Thanks , not at all. It wouldnt be a forum if we dont express our arguments before we agree to disagree.

[Guest Nikica]

Thanks , not at all. It wouldnt be a forum if we dont express our arguments before we agree to disagree.

 

No problem mate. Beckham is certainly a very polarising individual.

 

I generally don't get flustered when debating, and am accepting of other opinions. The whole celebrity culture thing with Beckham turns me into a different guy though lol. There might be a small element of truth in the claim that I undersell him as a player because I dislike his off the pitch exploits, but if I do it;s only to try and balance out the over-the-top praise the guy has received.

 

Anyway, I will keep my cool in future if his name crops up again (I realise I mentioned him first lol). I would have nothing against the guy if not for his 'brand' and narcissism.

 

I'm not denying he was a good player in his day by the way, not at all. It's just the way he has been elevated to world-class level. I don't think he was ever that, other than maybe 98-2001.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Nikica

[pete0]

No problem mate. Beckham is certainly a very polarising individual.

 

I generally don't get flustered when debating, and am accepting of other opinions. The whole celebrity culture thing with Beckham turns me into a different guy though lol. There might be a small element of truth in the claim that I undersell him as a player because I dislike his off the pitch exploits, but if I do it;s only to try and balance out the over-the-top praise the guy has received.

 

Anyway, I will keep my cool in future if his name crops up again (I realise I mentioned him first lol). I would have nothing against the guy if not for his 'brand' and narcissism.

 

I'm not denying he was a good player in his day by the way, not at all. It's just the way he has been elevated to world-class level. I don't think he was ever that, other than maybe 98-2001.

I hate the celeb/wag culture as well, he shaved his hair after the brylcreme deal which earned him some respect but then completely sold his soul to the media with the half-time boot incident.

[Guest Nikica]

I hate the celeb/wag culture as well, he shaved his hair after the brylcreme deal which earned him some respect but then completely sold his soul to the media with the half-time boot incident.

 

Yeah, he's been selling his soul most of his career tbh. When he shaved his hair it looked like he was focusing more on football, but I think he just wanted to start a new trend to be honest.

 

I'm probably more concerned with the celebrity culture he represents than him as a player. I can admit he was pretty good in his day, and he's far from the first player who I think was overrated, so it's really no big deal, but his 'fame' is pretty unique for a footballer (even Messi, Ronaldo and Pele cannot match it) and for me it's detrimental to the game as a whole, for a variety of reasons which are too many to go into detail.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Nikica

[marcopaulo]

Come on guys, it was a classy finish by Suarez, if you like that sort of thing. Beckham's goal against Wimbledon was similar and we never hear the end of it from his sycophants.

 

People dislike Suarez and he plays for Liverpool, so I suggest there's a bit of bias here.

 

It won't be a popular opinion on this site, but I am a big fan of Suarez as a player (I won't get into his personality etc). He is a really good link-up player, a fantastic dribbler and can create something out of nothing. I have been watching him since long before he joined Liverpool and he is quality. Suarez is a bit like a lesser man's Aguero. If anyone is overrated in that team, it's Steven 'I've never been able to play central midfield to save my life because my possession game is appalling' Gerrard.

 

completely wrong...people dislike suarez cos he's a prized cunt

[marcopaulo]

and on another point...before his hat trick i heard jelly boy had scored as many as suarez as this year...and yet he has a sore arse every weekend from the bummin...just sayin...hard to believe he's younger than me...took me ages to become the prick i am...he's far surpassed me at such a young age..the guy is not as good as they say...if he was liverpool would be higher in the league from the goals he had scored...not chances he has missed...end of deeeeeeeeeescussion

[Kohen]

Warrior sports? What?

[Guest blueboy122]

 

 

Rooney is considered by some to be some sort of footballing genius when he patently is not. There's a lot missing from his game. I'd suggest that had Rooney scored that, we'd be hearing the laughable Messi comparisons again, like we did the season before the World Cup.

 

He was a better player when he broke through at you lot than he is now. He showed a lot of signs back then that he could go onto be a player who could beat teams on his own. His performances at Euro 2004 were stunning. However, he has never became the player he could have.

 

He scores goals but he's missing that X Factor that separates very good players from the absolute best. Messi, Xavi, Ronaldo, Iniesta, Aguero, Robben etc have it. Rooney doesn't. He's still a very good player mind, just not the football god his brown-nosers would have you believe.

 

After the way he shafted Everton I thought he would be a bit less popular around here.

 

You have got to be joking? Rooney is well in that bracket with those players you mentioned. How can you say there are things missing from his game? He has everything even the work rate if Manchester united win the title this year it will be all down to Wayne Rooney he has pulled them results out of the hat by himself. I dont think its the xfactor that makes players of world class ability, the players you have referred to and given examples of xfactor players are all just players with flair. Even Rooney has flair mind, all those players are the headline makers whilst Rooney is aswell but when he isnt making headlines he is doing pretty much everything else, making goals, defending, working hard for the team etc etc.

 

I dont understand how people can say how good messi is and if he is one of the best to of ever played as he hasnt been tested enough, on the ball though he is breathless, incredable etc etc. Would he survive the premier league? Chelsea showed the other night that he isnt all that good, he didnt have a good game at all. Ronaldo on the other hand has torn up the portugese league, english league and the spanish league, playing with different sets of players at all three clubs, showing he is adaptable.

[Guest blueboy122]

 

 

completely wrong...people dislike suarez cos he's a prized cunt

 

Foxy.....Bingo

[Guest blueboy122]

Suarez also misses more chances then he finishes to be fair. Still a great player mind. Liverpool need a striker like Jelly he can just do the simple task of putting the ball in the goal.

[Dalziel Kane]

Still deciding who I may want to win for next saturdays before end of season 5pm start in the FA cup Final

 

More often than not I would want Chelsea over Liverpool but the last few years it has become a close run thing.

 

I suppose whatever side wins would be painful,and whoever loses would get some level of satisfaction out of it.

 

And remember - It could have been us this weekend if we had tried in the second half a few weeks back, but it's no good crying over spilt milk. I don't think I could handle another Final defeat off the fucking plastics though. No love lost for either side so we'll just see what goes down next week.

[Guest Nikica]

You have got to be joking? Rooney is well in that bracket with those players you mentioned. How can you say there are things missing from his game? He has everything even the work rate if Manchester united win the title this year it will be all down to Wayne Rooney he has pulled them results out of the hat by himself. I dont think its the xfactor that makes players of world class ability, the players you have referred to and given examples of xfactor players are all just players with flair. Even Rooney has flair mind, all those players are the headline makers whilst Rooney is aswell but when he isnt making headlines he is doing pretty much everything else, making goals, defending, working hard for the team etc etc.

 

I dont understand how people can say how good messi is and if he is one of the best to of ever played as he hasnt been tested enough, on the ball though he is breathless, incredable etc etc. Would he survive the premier league? Chelsea showed the other night that he isnt all that good, he didnt have a good game at all. Ronaldo on the other hand has torn up the portugese league, english league and the spanish league, playing with different sets of players at all three clubs, showing he is adaptable.

 

I read the first paragraph, and was going to reply respectfully and counter your points, but then I read what your post descended into in the second paragraph and realised I'd be talking to a brick wall.

 

On one hand, you're glorifying Rooney in a very sycophantic manner, claiming he is some sort of complete player when he clearly isn't (I must be joking to not think Rooney is some sort of perfect player? That's a fucking laugh), and on the other, you're saying Messi 'isn't that good' because he didn't play well against Chelsea, despite destroying most of the other top European teams he plays against.

 

People on this site seem very nice, but if you are going to descend into Premfacery rubbish like 'could Messi do it in the Prem?' (have you seen how Aguero, Silva, Torres etc all adapted to the PL, all inferior players to Messi by the way), then I refuse to debate with you. I have no time for PL bumboys who think La Liga is cr ap etc - been arguing against that for years and been proved right time and again. Are you going to start saying that Messi would struggle on a cold night at Stoke now?

 

If we are going by your 'Messi had a bad game' logic, then Rooney must be a pub player after last night. Knee-jerk, much?

 

Your flawed logic in regards to judging a player based on how many leagues he has been successful in isn't worth bothering with either. Is Ronaldo better than Pele? Pele only played in one league. C Ronaldo has been terrible in numerous big games (I actually watch La Liga) and in CL games, but his goals mask that. Messi effects games far more than Ronaldo does, Ronaldo has become a great goalscorer but his build-up play isn't anywhere near Messi's. For example, he scored in the 2008 CL Final and then disappeared, he did nothing in 2009 CL Final, and he's done nothing until very recently in any games against Barcelona.

 

The general concensus is that Messi is a much better player than Ronaldo, and only a strange minority consider Ronaldo to be the better player, so there's no point questioning Messi and attempting to place Ronaldo above him. Argue about Robben and Aguero all you like, but Rooney is nowhere near the three Barca boys and Ronaldo, only PL fanboys think he is.

 

Let me guess, you were one of the people saying he was up there with Messi and Ronaldo in the run-up to the last World Cup? Lol.

 

I'm not trying to be a tosser mate but come on? How can you pretend that Rooney has no weaknesses to his game and then question if Messi could do it in the PL? The defending in the PL is terrible for the most part, Messi would have a field day!

 

I'm sorry if I have ranted at you here but let's get real - Rooney has flaws to his game and there's no way Messi is overrated, as you imply. In all honesty I don't think you truly believe the things you are saying.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Nikica