Bailey Posted March 3, 2018 Report Share Posted March 3, 2018 12 minutes ago, nyblue23 said: De Bruyne was great before Pep. No he was just good before Pep, now he is one of the best players in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted March 3, 2018 Report Share Posted March 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Bailey said: That's not true at all. Plenty of very good players have under-performed in the wrong conditions. Look at what happened in Chelsea's run before Mourinho was sacked. In the other extreme look at how good De Bruyne has become under Pep. Thats due to great management and coaching combined with a player with outstanding talent. Great coaching hides cracks in the player. Thats what Dyche did for Keane. He made him a better player than he actually is and when he played against him, he knew his weakness and exposed it. Attacking system is probably the wrong word but its definitely more open. We aren't anywhere near as organised, he has Cuco alongside him who offers no protection, Williams is hit and miss and Gueye is similar in terms of the protection he offers. At Burnley he would know exactly where his CB is, how far away his FB is and all the time having the protection of two defensive midfielders in front of him. The Chelsea comparison does your argument no favours because their dive in form was nothing to do with tactics or coaching, it was because everyone fell out. Same with De Bruyne - he has never played as badly as Keane is playing currently. Point is, do we really want players where you need to paper over the cracks to make them look more than they are? The fact that Keane has got performances like today in his locker makes him not good enough in my opinion. Regardless of what the coaching staff are telling him, if he cannot see the run Barnes makes for the goal, he isn'ttt good enough. And it's not like it's a one off mistake. In fact, you're pretty much proving my point. Without a manager like Dyche to protect his flaws, Keane has been found out. What Dyche does is play a system where individuals don't need huge amounts of individual skill or clever decision making, he gets good results with average players. But there's a glass ceiling on how far you can go with that. The ambitions of our football club should be way higher, and beyond having to make do with second rate players. Except in Keane's case, and in a few others, we've paid big, big money for second rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted March 3, 2018 Report Share Posted March 3, 2018 5 hours ago, Bailey said: No he was just good before Pep, now he is one of the best players in the world. Selective memory he was world class for Wolfsburg 34 starts 10 goals 20 assists in one campaign. Hence city paying over 50m for him. nyblue23 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 6 hours ago, nogs said: The Chelsea comparison does your argument no favours because their dive in form was nothing to do with tactics or coaching, it was because everyone fell out. Same with De Bruyne - he has never played as badly as Keane is playing currently. Point is, do we really want players where you need to paper over the cracks to make them look more than they are? The fact that Keane has got performances like today in his locker makes him not good enough in my opinion. Regardless of what the coaching staff are telling him, if he cannot see the run Barnes makes for the goal, he isn'tttt good enough. And it's not like it's a one off mistake. In fact, you're pretty much proving my point. Without a manager like Dyche to protect his flaws, Keane has been found out. What Dyche does is play a system where individuals don't need huge amounts of individual skill or clever decision making, he gets good results with average players. But there's a glass ceiling on how far you can go with that. The ambitions of our football club should be way higher, and beyond having to make do with second rate players. Except in Keane's case, and in a few others, we've paid big, big money for second rate. It proves my point exactly. You said great players don't just play bad because those around them do. The De Bruyne point was because you said top players shouldn' need coaching, when they actually do. I am probably proving your point because I am of the same view lol. He isn'tt good enough, we need much more than a player that needs to be tactically wrapped in cotton wool. 2 hours ago, markjazzbassist said: Selective memory he was world class for Wolfsburg 34 starts 10 goals 20 assists in one campaign. Hence city paying over 50m for him. No, those stats don't show how good he actually was. We played against them and he was very average. I watched him for Chelsea before that and City after that. He was good at Chelsea (imo), better at Wolf'sburg but had dipped at City until Pep came in and now he is probably the best player in the world in my opinion. He is so good it' unreal. There is absolutely no comparison between De Bruyne pre Pep and post Pep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 15 hours ago, nyblue23 said: De Bruyne was great before Pep. Exactly... De Bruyne ended his breakout season with 16 goals and 27 assists in all competitions, and was named the 2015 Footballer of the Year in Germany. nyblue23 and markjazzbassist 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sev Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 Like others I had high expectations for Keane. Is it confidence he lacks? Is it the other defenders he plays with? Does he needs more time? Or did we just buy a defender we could have gotten for less with the same skillls... or lack of it. He doesn't add much to the defence and his slow. Now, slow is fine if you're strong and can read your opponents, but that he struggles with too. For now I'd rather see him on the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 14 minutes ago, Sev said: Like others I had high expectations for Keane. Is it confidence he lacks? Is it the other defenders he plays with? Does he needs more time? Or did we just buy a defender we could have gotten for less with the same skillls... or lack of it. He doesn't add much to the defence and his slow. Now, slow is fine if you're strong and can read your opponents, but that he struggles with too. For now I'd rather see him on the bench. Holgate is far better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sev Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, hafnia said: Holgate is far better. I can only agree with that. Really hope we didn't waste those millions on Keane. If, then he should be sold in next window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 I don’t think he was as bad as Williams, and I don’t think Barnes ripped him a new arse hole like sky sports and Carragher would have you believe. He was poor for the goal but I wasn’t worried about Barnes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmytheJimster Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 We just need to get a settled defensive partnership, for me it should be Keane with either Holgate or Mori (when fit), and let Keane be the leader back there as he was at Burnley. StevO and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 1 hour ago, StevO said: I don’t think he was as bad as Williams, and I don’t think Barnes ripped him a new arse hole like sky sports and Carragher would have you believe. He was poor for the goal but I wasn’t worried about Barnes. I only watched the game in patches and the goal wasn't the only time I saw Barnes make him look an absolute mug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 Really poor. Could go down as one of the worst signings ever. Fee paid for him is ridiculous turns the the QE2, positioning awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwlad Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 He hasn't shown anything at Everton that indicates that a partnership should be built round him. With his supposed credentials he should have hit the ground running and proved the sort player that 30m should buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 Both were to blame, there was massive gaps between them and a simple ball played forward beat them both, they were never close enough to the forward they were supposed to be marking. A complete and utter mess from two so called premier league defenders. StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 Keane is not the only player who did well before coming here. There must be a reason. My guess is that Koeman insisted on micromanaging. “I was a top class player. That’s why I’m here, so I’m going to recreate you in my image.” When that didn’t work, Keane lost his confidence. Now he’s playing for a manager who publicly criticizes every mistake, so timidity is now added to the mix. We need a strong man manager, with confidence but not arrogance, to turn players like this around. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted March 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 I don’t think he was as bad as Williams, and I don’t think Barnes ripped him a new arse hole like sky sports and Carragher would have you believe. He was poor for the goal but I wasn’t worried about Barnes. You watched a different game to me then, Barnes absolutely terrorised him Bailey and Aidan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jofanon Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 Its not a confidence problem when you turn like an oil tanker or fail to mark anyone properly Its because your shite. Michael Keane is shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 49 minutes ago, jofanon said: Its not a confidence problem when you turn like an oil tanker or fail to mark anyone properly Its because your shite. Michael Keane is shite. I’m not convinced he is. That’s not to say he’s not been disappointing this season, but his injury, not to mention the shite going on around the club and fucking awful tactics, haven’t done him or anyone else any favours Romey 1878, markjazzbassist, StevO and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 On 04/03/2018 at 22:08, duncanmckenzieismagic said: You watched a different game to me then, Barnes absolutely terrorised him Don’t get me wrong Dunc, Barnes got goal side of him a few times and played ok. I didn’t think Barnes looked a world beater and I didn’t expect him to score on any occasion (although he took his goal well). I was more disappointed with Williams as the senior man at the back not taking control of the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jofanon Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 22 hours ago, Matt said: I’m not convinced he is. That’s not to say he’s not been disappointing this season, but his injury, not to mention the shite going on around the club and fucking awful tactics, haven’t done him or anyone else any favours He is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 2 hours ago, jofanon said: He is Quality argument, well put Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jofanon Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 On 3/8/2018 at 15:49, Matt said: Quality argument, well put Cos I said so, ner nicky ner ner Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 Dropped from the England squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 23 minutes ago, MikeO said: Dropped from the England squad. Unsurprisingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 45 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: Unsurprisingly. But Hart is still in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, MikeO said: But Hart is still in. Crazy that like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 26, 2018 Report Share Posted April 26, 2018 https://amp.sportsmole.co.uk/football/everton/news/keane-defends-under-fire-allardyce_324382.html This lad is starting to get right on my tits. Every time he has a 7/10 game he comes out with some shite. His latest update is that he's been more settled and knows his job since the new manager has come in.... FUCK OFF!!! 1 HALF ACCEPTABLE GAME EVERY 5 DOESNT MAKE YOU SPOKESMAN FOR THE TEAM. Wall Writer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted April 26, 2018 Report Share Posted April 26, 2018 It helps him that Jags has largely been covering his arse. I thought he was crap on Monday, should have been sent off and gave away 2 needless free kicks in good areas. Plus he was responsible for ot trackibg Lascelles when Gayle nearly scored from the corner. If that' him settled then we are in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 26, 2018 Report Share Posted April 26, 2018 35 minutes ago, Bailey said: It helps him that Jags has largely been covering his arse. I thought he was crap on Monday, should have been sent off and gave away 2 needless free kicks in good areas. Plus he was responsible for ot trackibg Lascelles when Gayle nearly scored from the corner. If that' him settled then we are in trouble. Exactly.... he's full of shit. Reminds me of Joseph Yobo without any pace. Does some very strange things when he's not under pressure. I would take half the money we paid for him. All these interviews and his turquoise boots..... learn to defend first Ray Quinn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted April 26, 2018 Report Share Posted April 26, 2018 sam's style suits him more as dyche is also a parked bus and counter type guy. no surprise here. let's hope we can recoup the cost this summer if we decided to offload him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.