Michael Keane

[Romey 1878 14,139]

3 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Funny... When we've had a competent defensive midfielder like Gana and  and now Allan Keane looks fine.  

Someone wrote a piece on it, saying that the high press without Gana left us exposed at the back and Keane does not have the pace to deal with that.

Danny Gabbidon the other day said the introduction of someone like Allan after losing Gueye will improve our centre backs massively.  Against spurs I thought both Keane and Mina looked good. 

Keane likes this

https://www.evertonfc.com/news/1829338/keane-on-why-new-everton-teammate-is-defenders-dream

[Palfy 3,668]

15 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Funny... When we've had a competent defensive midfielder like Gana and  and now Allan Keane looks fine.  

Someone wrote a piece on it, saying that the high press without Gana left us exposed at the back and Keane does not have the pace to deal with that.

Danny Gabbidon the other day said the introduction of someone like Allan after losing Gueye will improve our centre backs massively.  Against spurs I thought both Keane and Mina looked good. 

Gana was never a competent midfielder, personally I think to compare him to Allan is an insult to Allan, Allan in his first game did things that Gana never could and never will be able to do. 
1) Gana never held his position or filled the space that players would run into or pick a man up. 
2) Gana never marshalled the players round him or gave any direction or encouragement what so ever. 
3) Gana didn’t have a decent first touch or the ability to regularly deliver a decent pass. 
Allan did all the above in his first game with consummate aplomb, and if you look at his stats he was as good as Gana at the only thing he good do which tackle and intercept. 

[StevO 5,921]

Come on lads, really?

😴

[Zoo 2.0 1,352]

Absolutely embarrassing the obsession that this place seems to have with Idrissa Gueye. 

[Palfy 3,668]

7 hours ago, Zoo 2.0 said:

Absolutely embarrassing the obsession that this place seems to have with Idrissa Gueye. 

Substitute obsession with depression and you will be somewhere nearer how I felt about him.  

[Shukes 4,554]

Feed them and they will keep it alive.

The whole three of them in existence 😉

[Hafnia 6,859]

9 hours ago, Palfy said:

Gana was never a competent midfielder, personally I think to compare him to Allan is an insult to Allan, Allan in his first game did things that Gana never could and never will be able to do. 
1) Gana never held his position or filled the space that players would run into or pick a man up. 
2) Gana never marshalled the players round him or gave any direction or encouragement what so ever. 
3) Gana didn’t have a decent first touch or the ability to regularly deliver a decent pass. 
Allan did all the above in his first game with consummate aplomb, and if you look at his stats he was as good as Gana at the only thing he good do which tackle and intercept. 

Gana won the ball more than any midfielder in the league has .... That demonstrates a high level of competence.  He enabled a high press, he wasn't asked to hold his position, he wasn't expected to be a ball player and he never lost his place cos he couldn't pass like James - he kept it cos he won the ball for the team.

Gana was a ball winning midfielder and that's why PSG came in for him.

Allan is a more rounded player and looks an awesome signing.  But that does not take away the fact that Gana was a highly effective ball winning midfielder who's mobility and tenacity left our midfield with such a void that we looked shocking after he left. 

Gana is probably the biggest miss we've had in our side in terms of non replacement.... Our tackles won, interceptions, goals conceded all got massively damaged when he left 

[SpartyBlue 351]

5 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Gana won the ball more than any midfielder in the league has .... That demonstrates a high level of competence.  He enabled a high press, he wasn't asked to hold his position, he wasn't expected to be a ball player and he never lost his place cos he couldn't pass like James - he kept it cos he won the ball for the team.

Gana was a ball winning midfielder and that's why PSG came in for him.

Allan is a more rounded player and looks an awesome signing.  But that does not take away the fact that Gana was a highly effective ball winning midfielder who's mobility and tenacity left our midfield with such a void that we looked shocking after he left. 

Gana is probably the biggest miss we've had in our side in terms of non replacement.... Our tackles won, interceptions, goals conceded all got massively damaged when he left 

In defense of management we did bring in Gbamin and Delph. Not exactly the same types as Gana but their injuries did exaggerate the impact of his absence.

[Palfy 3,668]

5 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Gana won the ball more than any midfielder in the league has .... That demonstrates a high level of competence.  He enabled a high press, he wasn't asked to hold his position, he wasn't expected to be a ball player and he never lost his place cos he couldn't pass like James - he kept it cos he won the ball for the team.

Gana was a ball winning midfielder and that's why PSG came in for him.

Allan is a more rounded player and looks an awesome signing.  But that does not take away the fact that Gana was a highly effective ball winning midfielder who's mobility and tenacity left our midfield with such a void that we looked shocking after he left. 

Gana is probably the biggest miss we've had in our side in terms of non replacement.... Our tackles won, interceptions, goals conceded all got massively damaged when he left 

I looked at our goals conceded with him in the team  and they were nothing to right home about, Gana was a ball winning midfielder end of done nothing else to offer, with in less than year PSG their management and their supporters soon realised that that’s why he doesn’t play much and is available for sale. 

[Hafnia 6,859]

1 hour ago, SpartyBlue said:

In defense of management we did bring in Gbamin and Delph. Not exactly the same types as Gana but their injuries did exaggerate the impact of his absence.

Not blaming management. Just highlighting the gap he made which was huge.

 

[Hafnia 6,859]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

I looked at our goals conceded with him in the team  and they were nothing to right home about, Gana was a ball winning midfielder end of done nothing else to offer, with in less than year PSG their management and their supporters soon realised that that’s why he doesn’t play much and is available for sale. 

https://www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/2020/feature-idrissa-gueye-an-assessment-of-his-1st-9-months-at-psg/

https://www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/2020/ex-lille-recruiter-vandamme-idrissa-gueye-is-the-indispensable-player-for-psg/

 

He played 33 games Palf, tuchel and Leonardo  love him.  He got groin injuries which made him miss some games.  They need to raise cash but draxler is the saleable asset. 

He's been a success there.... Champions League finalist, League winner. 

 

[pete0 2,162]

7 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Gana won the ball more than any midfielder in the league has .... That demonstrates a high level of competence.

Wrecklessly leaving your position is the opposite of demonstrating competence. 

 

@17 seconds he leaves us exposed. Does any one have the stats for how often he done that? As I'd back on him being miles ahead of any player we've had. 

Back on topic what the feck was Michael Keane doing also. 

[StevO 5,921]

7 hours ago, Hafnia said:

He enabled a high press, he wasn't asked to hold his position, he wasn't expected to be a ball player and he never lost his place cos he couldn't pass like James - he kept it cos he won the ball for the team.

This is the bit his fans loved him for, and his detractors just thought he was out of position. He was doing what he was asked to do and do it well. 
 

And I can’t believe I’ve got myself sucked into this. 

[Palfy 3,668]

21 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

https://www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/2020/feature-idrissa-gueye-an-assessment-of-his-1st-9-months-at-psg/

https://www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/2020/ex-lille-recruiter-vandamme-idrissa-gueye-is-the-indispensable-player-for-psg/

 

He played 33 games Palf, tuchel and Leonardo  love him.  He got groin injuries which made him miss some games.  They need to raise cash but draxler is the saleable asset. 

He's been a success there.... Champions League finalist, League winner. 

 

They win the league every year he didn’t play in the final or semi’s, you’re never convince me he’s good player winning the ball isn’t the be all and end all of a good player, you need far more than that to become a good player, watch Allan and you’re see what we were missing with Gana, he’s now been replaced for quality. 

[Palfy 3,668]

3 minutes ago, StevO said:

This is the bit his fans loved him for, and his detractors just thought he was out of position. He was doing what he was asked to do and do it well. 
 

And I can’t believe I’ve got myself sucked into this. 

Stay out your not welcome 😂

[Shukes 4,554]

3 hours ago, Palfy said:

I looked at our goals conceded with him in the team  and they were nothing to right home about, Gana was a ball winning midfielder end of done nothing else to offer, with in less than year PSG their management and their supporters soon realised that that’s why he doesn’t play much and is available for sale. 

You’ve been saying that for a few months... then I watched the champions league after lockdown... and he was on the pitch?  
They must have realised is less than a year.... but then forgot again during lockdown 😉

Damn it I’m feeding him again!

[Shukes 4,554]

1 hour ago, StevO said:

This is the bit his fans loved him for, and his detractors just thought he was out of position. He was doing what he was asked to do and do it well. 
 

And I can’t believe I’ve got myself sucked into this. 

Haha I did the same mate. Problem is, you can’t discuss with a closed book.

[Shukes 4,554]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

Stay out your not welcome 😂

Do me do me!!!!!!

[Palfy 3,668]

44 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Do me do me!!!!!!

You’re trouble always have been 😂

anyone can join the debate I just ask one simple request you must agree with me, not to hard is it. 

[Sibdane 2,252]

2 hours ago, Palfy said:

They win the league every year he didn’t play in the final or semi’s, you’re never convince me he’s good player winning the ball isn’t the be all and end all of a good player, you need far more than that to become a good player, watch Allan and you’re see what we were missing with Gana, he’s now been replaced for quality. 

You son of a bitch. 

[Matt 8,278]

For the love of all that is holy, evil, anything. Move the fuck on 

[Palfy 3,668]

6 minutes ago, Matt said:

For the love of all that is holy, evil, anything. Move the fuck on 

Haf’s fault this time boss😉

[Shukes 4,554]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

You’re trouble always have been 😂

anyone can join the debate I just ask one simple request you must agree with me, not to hard is it. 

I bow to lord Palfy 🙏🙏

Gana is bad Gana is bad!

[Bailey 5,093]

2 hours ago, Shukes said:

You’ve been saying that for a few months... then I watched the champions league after lockdown... and he was on the pitch?  
They must have realised is less than a year.... but then forgot again during lockdown 😉

Damn it I’m feeding him again!

I'm not sure he started the semi or the final. Must have played the game you saw then realised they couldn't afford to do it again!

[Palfy 3,668]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

I'm not sure he started the semi or the final. Must have played the game you saw then realised they couldn't afford to do it again!

He never didn’t even get on the pitch after the warmup, Shukester was down the pub again lucky bastard😉

[markjazzbassist 3,334]

showing his qualities again today.  good leadership and composure and a solid header for a goal.  helped digne out as well.

[StevO 5,921]

I know it’s only Salford today, but even Spurs and the end of last season, he looks to have really stepped up a level. 
He made comments about getting an old coach he had at United to help him work on his game. Maybe that made a big difference. Whatever it is, he’s looking good and hopefully it continues. 

[markjazzbassist 3,334]

3 hours ago, StevO said:

I know it’s only Salford today, but even Spurs and the end of last season, he looks to have really stepped up a level. 
He made comments about getting an old coach he had at United to help him work on his game. Maybe that made a big difference. Whatever it is, he’s looking good and hopefully it continues. 

could be that, could also be a manager who has backed him and a DOF who gave him a new contract.  i would think both of those would be bigtime confidence boosters knowing you are wanted and appreciated.  i hadn't heard about the old coach, but that sounds plausible as well.

[Shukes 4,554]

10 hours ago, Bailey said:

I'm not sure he started the semi or the final. Must have played the game you saw then realised they couldn't afford to do it again!

Obviously he was being rested for more important matches, after putting so much effort into the quarter.

[Romey 1878 14,139]

I'm really pleased for him after finding his form. Not because I've always rated him (it's no secret I have) but because he seems like a really humble lad and someone who just wants to be the best he can be, and has the work ethic to put that into practice.

It shows his character that he's managed to come back from what was horrendous form at the start of his Everton career. Form that was, at least in part, down to him just wanting to help his new team out. 

He has his limitations, we all know that (so does he), and we'll have to get better than him in the next 2/3 years to push us on, but he's a very good defender for us and in my opinion he's the first CB on the teamsheet.

[Bailey 5,093]

14 hours ago, StevO said:

I know it’s only Salford today, but even Spurs and the end of last season, he looks to have really stepped up a level. 
He made comments about getting an old coach he had at United to help him work on his game. Maybe that made a big difference. Whatever it is, he’s looking good and hopefully it continues. 

I read somewhere that his top speed improved after lockdown due to the different training he was doing. I cannot find it now as it was on Twitter but he improved his recorded speed by a few kmph which isn't too shabby.

He has certainly improved his consistency over that period and as Romey says he is definitely the first CB on the team sheet. I will still remain cautious as to how he continues over the season as he has yet to be consistent in an Everton shirt but he looks like he belongs here now.

[Wiggytop 688]

He’s been very solid so far, we’ve got to be happy with that, and also with any player who improves regardless of the starting point, too many seem to have gone backwards or failed to live up to expectations.

[Romey 1878 14,139]

https://www.evertonfc.com/news/1801675/keane-studying-superstar-centre-back-in-constant-improvement-pursuit

I really do love a player that wants to improve.

[Btay 2,221]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

https://www.evertonfc.com/news/1801675/keane-studying-superstar-centre-back-in-constant-improvement-pursuit

I really do love a player that wants to improve.

Must admit he has really impressed this year.

Glad he’s mentioned attacking runs from corners - he’s been on the end of a lot and there abouts for others. Hope he keeps it up because he’s been class.

[Hafnia 6,859]

2 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

https://www.evertonfc.com/news/1801675/keane-studying-superstar-centre-back-in-constant-improvement-pursuit

I really do love a player that wants to improve.

Is it possible for Michael Keane to improve?  I think think some people may struggle to either want him to or accept that he has.... As it means that he could prove them wrong.

I must admit I wasn't a big fan at a certain time but I'm a sucker for a player with the grit to improve ... Struggles with pace and occasional ball watching but there are qualities there that make him very effective.

[pete0 2,162]

“When you watch those clips it shows how aggressive you have to be and the work that goes into that.”

Shouldn't have taken him this long to figure out he needs to be more aggressive. He's a gentle giant and needs to find his nasty side on the pitch.

[Bailey 5,093]

I think he has done really well since lockdown. He looks a bit quicker and a lot more agile. He is definitely the CB I would want to start every game at the moment and I didn't expect to say that based on his first couple of seasons.

[Shukes 4,554]

Changing my opinion on him slowly but surely. He is starting to become a more solid player, working harder at getting back, which was my real gripe with him.  Have to give him credit when due.

[Aidan 2,228]

Just here to acknowledge the pass he made to dom for the opening goal. Class! 

[Wiggytop 688]

8 hours ago, Aidan said:

Just here to acknowledge the pass he made to dom for the opening goal. Class! 

Both the turn, surge forward and then the pass, it was one of his “scoop” kicks, if you haven’t seen it, have a look closer he often hits a high looping pass, some times he needs to whack it though. Last night was the best example of a scoop IMO 😎

[Hafnia 6,859]

Well done Micky Keane.  Call up maybe? 

[Romey 1878 14,139]

59 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Well done Micky Keane.  Call up maybe? 

He was in the last squad, so that wouldn't exactly be a surprise.

[Hafnia 6,859]

35 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

He was in the last squad, so that wouldn't exactly be a surprise.

yeah... he doesnt deserve dropping........

[Romey 1878 14,139]

2 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

yeah... he doesnt deserve dropping........

Probably have to partner the hopeless Maguire though.

[Romey 1878 14,139]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11671/12094422/michael-keane-everton-defender-says-he-had-to-work-harder-than-ever-for-england-recall

[SpartyBlue 351]

Just thought it was worth noting that there are about 15 players that have recent comments before you get to Michael Keane. I consider this a very good thing from a no nonsense type center back. He’s turned himself into a really solid, classy player. I can’t recall the last time I thought he had a bad game. 

[c1982 2,758]

55 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

I can’t recall the last time I thought he had a bad game. 

Looked shaky tonight... but he’s been class over the past 12months.

[SpartyBlue 351]

2 minutes ago, c1982 said:

Looked shaky tonight... but he’s been class over the past 12months.

I didn’t think so but perhaps my focus was diverted by how annoying I find Cavani.

[MC11 1,233]

Thought he was great!

[Bailey 5,093]

1 hour ago, SpartyBlue said:

Just thought it was worth noting that there are about 15 players that have recent comments before you get to Michael Keane. I consider this a very good thing from a no nonsense type center back. He’s turned himself into a really solid, classy player. I can’t recall the last time I thought he had a bad game. 

You spoke too soon!

[Bill 1,332]

1 hour ago, MC11 said:

Thought he was great!

He was very poor tonight, first ten minutes he handed them the ball twice on the edge of our penalty box, could quite easily have been two nil down.

[Matt 8,278]

14 minutes ago, Bill said:

He was very poor tonight, first ten minutes he handed them the ball twice on the edge of our penalty box, could quite easily have been two nil down.

Bar those two cock-ups during the time when everyone was screwing up, he was very solid and played well 

[Shukes 4,554]

I think he has been one of our stand out performers so far this season. He can afford to have the occasional bad game.

[Wiggytop 688]

16 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I think he has been one of our stand out performers so far this season. He can afford to have the occasional bad game.

It wasn’t a bad game from him, just a poor start along with everyone else, we looked like a pinball machine, could keep the ball in any shape or form. After the shakily start he was very good, always seemed to be where he needed to be, making some stuff look easy.

[StevO 5,921]

36 minutes ago, Wiggytop said:

It wasn’t a bad game from him, just a poor start along with everyone else, we looked like a pinball machine, could keep the ball in any shape or form. After the shakily start he was very good, always seemed to be where he needed to be, making some stuff look easy.

Yeah I’m with this. Still had a decent game. Cavani showed a bit of quality for the first goal, the second can happen when everyone is forward and Bernard and Davies are the two furthest back. But I think Keane and Mina, on the whole, kept them pretty quiet. No concerns about the defence at the moment. Still looking pretty solid. 
Can’t create anything at the moment other than set pieces, but get a big man defending them aggressively and you nullify our threat. 
Need James back, and Digne ideally, but without Allan it can be a bit much. Hopefully Carlo can find the balance.

[Elston Gunnn 443]

8 minutes ago, StevO said:

Need James back, and Digne ideally, but without Allan it can be a bit much. Hopefully Carlo can find the balance.

This goes beyond Keane, but SteveO’s comment leads me to ask a question.  I was unable to watch the match.  I’ve read the comments on TT, and have seen references to tired legs, individual poor performances, and differences in squad quality.

Here’s the simple question: would the presence of a healthy Allan, Digne, and James likely have made for a much better performance?  Seems the obvious answer is “Yes.”  Even with these 3, our overall squad quality is still not top 5.  But with major injuries, especially in the midst of so many matches, second choice players and tired legs means ugly play, disappointment again.

[Bailey 5,093]

It depends on how you want to view it but he had a hand in the Cavani goal. I won't just level this at Keane by any stretch but somehow Davies finds himself in a left centre back position and that means Keane is the one that needs to drop into midfield to pick up Martial. 

I think there was a tactical failure with whatever reason Davies found himself back there (and also later in the game too) but also a failure of Keane to appreciate that.

In the same way that attackers need to drop and fill in when a defender has been caught upfield, a defender needs to be ready to move into midfield when someone has been caught deep. Either that or they need to communicate to each other to push someone else into the space. 

By the time Keane does push forward, its too late. The space he then leaves behind is big enough for Cavani to get in between Godfrey and Mina and get the shot away. 

As for why Davies was there, I haven't got a scooby. Nor why he doesn't push out immediately. He seems to stay in that position and then he later seems to play deep to allow the CBs to stay forward so I don't know if it was a tactical move at that point by Ancelotti or whether it was just Davies making that tactical decision based on the situation that had unfolded before the goal. Either way, it wasnt a good one.

[London Blue 2,423]

13 minutes ago, Elston Gunnn said:

This goes beyond Keane, but SteveO’s comment leads me to ask a question.  I was unable to watch the match.  I’ve read the comments on TT, and have seen references to tired legs, individual poor performances, and differences in squad quality.

Here’s the simple question: would the presence of a healthy Allan, Digne, and James likely have made for a much better performance?  Seems the obvious answer is “Yes.”  Even with these 3, our overall squad quality is still not top 5.  But with major injuries, especially in the midst of so many matches, second choice players and tired legs means ugly play, disappointment again.

If the team we put out was rested and fresh then we would have played much better.

If we had Dinge, James and Allan we probably could have won the match.

Since we lost James we have lacked guile and creativity, which has led us to hit teams on the counter. Players Doucore, and Iwobi have stepped up, but expend allot of energy in doing so. 4 games in 10 days was just too much and we just could not compete. 

With Allan  we missed his control of midfield, his decision making and 

In the Utd match there was less energy, too many tired decisions, and tired mistakes.  

[Elston Gunnn 443]

5 hours ago, London Blue said:

If the team we put out was rested and fresh then we would have played much better.

If we had Dinge, James and Allan we probably could have won the match.

Since we lost James we have lacked guile and creativity, which has led us to hit teams on the counter. Players Doucore, and Iwobi have stepped up, but expend allot of energy in doing so. 4 games in 10 days was just too much and we just could not compete. 

With Allan  we missed his control of midfield, his decision making and 

In the Utd match there was less energy, too many tired decisions, and tired mistakes.  

Thanks for response.  This is a helpful summary plus elaboration on many of the comments during and after the match.  The combo of key injuries, insufficient squad depth, and busy schedule did us in.  What’s next is now being debated in the SHU thread, with an early consensus on practical necessity of rotation, but with different opinions on Tosun in particular.

[dunlopp9987 759]

We've had plenty of standout performers this season, but I think I have to put Keane at the top of the list. Absolutely un-droppable at this point. His defending has improved tremendously since Carlo has come in, but the thing that's impressing me most is his on the ball work. He's shown all season he can pick out a long pass and he's comfortable taking the ball into midfield. 

Couldn't be happier to have him as our #1 at the back