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4 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

We've had plenty of standout performers this season, but I think I have to put Keane at the top of the list. Absolutely un-droppable at this point. His defending has improved tremendously since Carlo has come in, but the thing that's impressing me most is his on the ball work. He's shown all season he can pick out a long pass and he's comfortable taking the ball into midfield. 

Couldn't be happier to have him as our #1 at the back

Playing like a captain in the making for me. 

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GIven his performances since arriving at Everton, how can they tell? (i hope he's okay)

Just here to acknowledge the pass he made to dom for the opening goal. Class! 

Things are making much more sense now  

27 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

It's all the more satisfying watching him play this well because he was totally written off by a big chunk of our fans, he lost his England place, he would obviously have had low confidence. And now look at him, he'd be the first name on the teamsheet.

Worth 20 up points this. So many wanted him gone, turns out so many of our issues were management.  Thank god we have Carlo.

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4 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

Worth 20 up points this. So many wanted him gone, turns out so many of our issues were management.  Thank god we have Carlo.

I don't even think most of it is management. It's played it's part but the biggest thing was he got fit and wasn't playing injured to help a struggling team. Which allowed him to show his talent and that led to him rebuilding his confidence, and he's gone from there.

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1 hour ago, London Blue said:

He is the definition of a model professional, had setbacks, looked himself in the mirror, and worked hard to improve himself. Didn't wine or complain, he worked with people he trusted and just got on with it. Massive respect to him.

Had a few beers though.   …….....  Got in before Mike gets you.😁

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He's been in good form and its great to see. Started the campaign off with some sketchy moments - like all our defenders but hes really kicked on. I just hope this is it, its been said before and we have been here before and then he reverts to a shaky version of himself. He's stood up when we have been screaming for a leader at the back.

I still think he can be better though - more vocal, commanding and a real presence. He's going the right way no doubt, i just hope he is setting the bench mark for consistent performances. 

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3 hours ago, Btay said:

I still think he can be better though - more vocal, commanding and a real presence. He's going the right way no doubt, i just hope he is setting the bench mark for consistent performances. 

He doesn't seem like someone who ever wants to just stay at a level, whatever that is at the time, he's always looking to get better.

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11 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

He doesn't seem like someone who ever wants to just stay at a level, whatever that is at the time, he's always looking to get better.

To be honest I’ve always found him quite placid and content which is what my problem has been with him.

He improved undoubtedly and is the first defender on the team sheet right now.

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His finishing has improved dramatically this season, he use to miss the target with a lot of the headers that came his way, now a real threat in our box.
We can thank the broad aerial threat across the team for a lot of points this season. 

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  • 5 weeks later...
1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

Another player who under Carlo Ancellotti looks to be a very good player.  

Probably player of season so far and today he looked like a captain.  

Definitely seeing the difference in him. Confidence or what ever it is but he is the leader at the back we’ve been screaming out for. 
 

I definitely think he is suited to this deep block defence, eats up everything that comes into the box.

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Carlo has definitely played a big part, but he’s not had any big off the field issues or ongoing injury concerns which I think had played a bigger part. Always had faith in him and I’m glad he’s making his ability even easier to see. He’s been an absolute rock this season, and I hope he’s our leading CB for the next 5 years. He really could be Jags’ replacement at this rate. 

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27 minutes ago, Matt said:

Carlo has definitely played a big part, but he’s not had any big off the field issues or ongoing injury concerns which I think had played a bigger part. Always had faith in him and I’m glad he’s making his ability even easier to see. He’s been an absolute rock this season, and I hope he’s our leading CB for the next 5 years. He really could be Jags’ replacement at this rate. 

It's also helped that he's had a good run of games. He doesn't seem like a player that can be rotated and then just come back in and be the same quality as he was before (as was shown in just past couple of weeks). I hope Carlo has noted it and only takes him out when it's absolutely needed.

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It is no surprise that his best games come when we sit deep and he has numbers around him. He has done really well this season but I really don't want us to play that way week in week out.

I am not sure how consistent and how much he will have "improved" if we start playing on the front foot again, with him defending much closer to the half way line.

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7 minutes ago, Bailey said:

It is no surprise that his best games come when we sit deep and he has numbers around him. He has done really well this season but I really don't want us to play that way week in week out.

I am not sure how consistent and how much he will have "improved" if we start playing on the front foot again, with him defending much closer to the half way line.

Not all centre halves are quick, if he is partnered with Godfrey then I don't see the issue 

We had ratcliffe as the legs to cover mountfield, Liverpool had lawrenson as the legs to cover Hansen and they were the days of 2 strikers. 

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1 minute ago, Hafnia said:

Not all centre halves are quick, if he is partnered with Godfrey then I don't see the issue 

We had ratcliffe as the legs to cover mountfield, Liverpool had lawrenson as the legs to cover Hansen and they were the days of 2 strikers. 

It isn't about being quick. I don't think Keane is a slouch either. Keane just has a natural tendency to drop deep, to stand off, to be passive. He isn't agile (although it has noticeably improved this season) and he is an average 1 v 1 defender. Put him in a side like City and Liverpool and he will get exposed a lot. We are never going to play like them, but I am pretty confident that Carlo would like us to play higher up the pitch and squeeze the space between the lines and dominate the ball in the opposition half a lot more than we do now. As soon as you do that, Keane will have more space around him and his natural tendencies, will just create more space for opposition players than you can afford them to have.

The game has moved on a bit since then Haf!

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4 hours ago, Bailey said:

It isn't about being quick. I don't think Keane is a slouch either. Keane just has a natural tendency to drop deep, to stand off, to be passive. He isn't agile (although it has noticeably improved this season) and he is an average 1 v 1 defender. Put him in a side like City and Liverpool and he will get exposed a lot. We are never going to play like them, but I am pretty confident that Carlo would like us to play higher up the pitch and squeeze the space between the lines and dominate the ball in the opposition half a lot more than we do now. As soon as you do that, Keane will have more space around him and his natural tendencies, will just create more space for opposition players than you can afford them to have.

The game has moved on a bit since then Haf!

His leadership qualities are coming to the fore now.  Wasn't a fan but he's looking a far better player than he has. 

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43 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

His leadership qualities are coming to the fore now.  Wasn't a fan but he's looking a far better player than he has. 

Me too, and your right he’s very much improved, I used to cringe when his name was on the team sheet a couple of seasons ago, full credit to him for becoming so reliable.

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9 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Dier is dire, Maguire has the mobility of the Michael Jackson statue that used to be outside Craven Cottage, Mings I don't mind getting a go but Keane is better than all of them.

All true, I just hope he sees it as a welcome break from a busy season, and it doesn’t knock his confidence.

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I think Godfrey has shown he is too inexperienced at the top level and wouldn't be in the plans for the Euros.

With Keane, I think it is more playing style than anything else. At international level you aren't going to drop deep and head ball after ball away. Southgate wants to play out from the back and with a high line (at the moment) and you wouldn't pick Keane for that job. I wouldn't pick Mings for it either though because he is in the same mould.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just seen the goal again and it's not even amateur level. Holgate and Mina both get torn apart for much less. He done similar twice earlier in the game as well. 

If we make the top four I reckon he'll be the first player out the door. Good thing for him he's doing his best to make sure that doesn't happen. Fucking joke of defender.

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34 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Just seen the goal again and it's not even amateur level. Holgate and Mina both get torn apart for much less. He done similar twice earlier in the game as well. 

If we make the top four I reckon he'll be the first player out the door. Good thing for him he's doing his best to make sure that doesn't happen. Fucking joke of defender.

When you don’t like a player you don’t half go for them, don’t you? :rolleyes: 

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Criticism of Holgate & Godfrey only happens when they are asked to play FB they are CBs and should be judged when playing there proper position.

Where as Kean always plays at CB,  and his criticism is justified. 

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4 hours ago, Tonsta said:

Criticism of Holgate & Godfrey only happens when they are asked to play FB they are CBs and should be judged when playing there proper position.

Where as Kean always plays at CB,  and his criticism is justified. 

Would have to disagree with ya there, friend. We praised Holgate yesterday for his performance at CB, and you better believe we've criticised his performances at CB too

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8 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

He really was poor for their goal but he's not the only one culpable for it, and that is something that happens a lot to us this season. When one player messes up you expect another to clean that mess up because they're switched on, but we have players that compound a previous mistake.

Totally agree everyone will mess up and when it happens, others need to read or expect it can happen and place themselves in a better position to deal with it, teaching people to read the game is one of the hardest things to do, the players who have that instinct are the better players and that is what separates them from the average players, unfortunately we still have a few to many in the average category. 

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4 hours ago, dunlopp9987 said:

Would have to disagree with ya there, friend. We praised Holgate yesterday for his performance at CB, and you better believe we've criticised his performances at CB too

What i meant was Holgate never gets to settle in one position, he is constantly asked to swap positions, and i think that does not help him at all, Keane always plays CB.

But yes Holgate has had poor games at CB.

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I don't think he does a lot wrong for the goal. He has to come inside to cover Schlupp and potentially Zaha. He doesn't know whether or not Mina is going to get across and can't take the risk that he is. 

Keane might be the one left looking awkward at the end but there were many others that could have stopped that goal.

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14 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I don't think he does a lot wrong for the goal. He has to come inside to cover Schlupp and potentially Zaha. He doesn't know whether or not Mina is going to get across and can't take the risk that he is. 

Keane might be the one left looking awkward at the end but there were many others that could have stopped that goal.

He completely abandons the goal scorer, the player he's meant to be marking. 

If he doesn't know Mina is going the ball that's another negative against him. Keep marking your own man and if in doubt give your teammate a shout.

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20 hours ago, StevO said:

He saved many a goal this season, so I won’t be too concerned by him. I’m more concerned it wasn’t 3-0 at that point. 

If it were Mina or Holgate they would be getting ripped apart though instead of finding excuses for it. 

Keane’s had his best season by far this year, really started to show himself as a top team defender but he has plenty of moments in him that really make you wonder - unfortunately for him most have cost goals and even points.

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55 minutes ago, Btay said:

If it were Mina or Holgate they would be getting ripped apart though instead of finding excuses for it. 

Keane’s had his best season by far this year, really started to show himself as a top team defender but he has plenty of moments in him that really make you wonder - unfortunately for him most have cost goals and even points.

There are people who have issues with players and find fault in whatever they do. 

I don’t personally have an issue with any of our centre halves, and doubt I’ve ripped any of them apart or found excuses for them. I don’t mind which of the four play, but I do believe Keane has been the best of them this season. I like all of them. 

That said, I don’t put that goal down to one player making an error. That goal was coming. We were under more and more pressure as the game went on. We were conceding chances, we weren’t keeping hold of the ball in midfield and we didn’t hold up the play when the ball got to the forwards. The team as a whole gave that goal away as far as I’m concerned. No individual error. 
 

While we’re talking about Keane specifically, which moments lead to goals and costing us points? Genuine question. Because all that’s coming to my mind is the hundreds of blocks, headers, clearances and tackles. I honestly can’t remember him costing us points. 

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Michael Keane has been one of our better centre halves if not the best this season.

Does this mean ball watching will be eradicated from his game or that he won't make mistakes?  No.  

I can't find fault with his attitude to the game or our club.  I wish I could say the same for Holgate, who is arguably a more gifted athlete and ball player.

The issue we have is that we have 4 decent centre halves and no top quality centre halves.  This is why we need to get koulibaily - you could partner him with any of the other 3/4 and make them look far better. 

You can argue cases of who should play between any of the other 4 and not have too much disparity.  You couldn't argue about it if we got koulibaily - that's where we need to be at.  He would probably kick Richarlisons arse over the the free kick bollocks too. 

 

This whole "oooh Keanes made a mistake let's try and paint his whole season as a mistake riddled affair and forget his top perfoances where I picked A N Other for motm when they quite clearly weren't" is just shit.  I haven't been a Pickford fan and it may take alot for me to trust him.... Does that mean I shouldn't vote or recognise his best games? No. That would make me a prick.... And whilst I may be a prick if like that to be for other reasons and not my inability to be fair. 

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18 hours ago, pete0 said:

He completely abandons the goal scorer, the player he's meant to be marking. 

If he doesn't know Mina is going the ball that's another negative against him. Keep marking your own man and if in doubt give your teammate a shout.

This is just wrong. As a defender with 3 players on your agenda, you have to mark the most dangerous space, which he did. If he stays wide there are easy balls between him and Mina to Batshuayi (especially as the defensive line is straight) and there is the shorter ball to Zaha to burst into the space between Mina and Keane.

 

5 hours ago, Btay said:

If it were Mina or Holgate they would be getting ripped apart though instead of finding excuses for it. 

Keane’s had his best season by far this year, really started to show himself as a top team defender but he has plenty of moments in him that really make you wonder - unfortunately for him most have cost goals and even points.

I don't know if this is aimed at me, but if it is you will see I have blamed Keane for plenty of goals this season. He has just been left carrying the monkey on this one and the easy thing to do it blame him instead of looking at why he was left in that position.

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Find it mad you're trying so hard to justify it. He doesn't mark the space. He goes to the ball.

To even say he goes to block that pass raises even more questions. On what planet is the best option to block a pass further away from goal leaving a player unmarked in the box the right thing to do?

Then again you thought Gomes weren't too blame last week when he didn't stay goal side. Keane's this week is just as bad. It's stuff you'd shout at a school boy level, yet we've got blokes getting paid a £100k a go week doing shit you wouldn't see in a Sunday league.

 

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5 hours ago, Bailey said:

This is just wrong. As a defender with 3 players on your agenda, you have to mark the most dangerous space, which he did. If he stays wide there are easy balls between him and Mina to Batshuayi (especially as the defensive line is straight) and there is the shorter ball to Zaha to burst into the space between Mina and Keane.

Agreed. He try’s to split them. If he stays with his man, he makes it an easy decision for the other attacker. Coaches teach defenders to make the attacker make the decision.

Split the attackers and make the angle as difficult as possible, makes a pass more difficult and usually creates indecision.

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