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3 hours ago, pete0 said:

Find it mad you're trying so hard to justify it. He doesn't mark the space. He goes to the ball.

To even say he goes to block that pass raises even more questions. On what planet is the best option to block a pass further away from goal leaving a player unmarked in the box the right thing to do?

Then again you thought Gomes weren't too blame last week when he didn't stay goal side. Keane's this week is just as bad. It's stuff you'd shout at a school boy level, yet we've got blokes getting paid a £100k a go week doing shit you wouldn't see in a Sunday league.

 

At that moment the least dangerous person is Batshuayi. He has the tightest angle to goal giving the keeper the best chance of making the save. 

Even if you don't agree with that, what do you think about these:

1. Should Davies get closer to Milivojevic?

2. Should Godfrey / Siggy track Zaha?

3. Should Schlupp be allowed 5 yards of space in all directions just outside our 18 yard box? 

4. Should the goalkeeper be diving towards his near post?

Those 4 points all refer to really shoddy defensive decisions for a team defending a 1-0 lead. The first 3 decisions all combine to impact Keane's decision making where he is faced with at least a 2 v 1 situation with Batshuayi and Zaha, but potentially a 3 v 1 situation if Mina cant get close enough to Schlupp. 

 

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GIven his performances since arriving at Everton, how can they tell? (i hope he's okay)

Just here to acknowledge the pass he made to dom for the opening goal. Class! 

Things are making much more sense now  

10 hours ago, Bailey said:

This is just wrong. As a defender with 3 players on your agenda, you have to mark the most dangerous space, which he did. If he stays wide there are easy balls between him and Mina to Batshuayi (especially as the defensive line is straight) and there is the shorter ball to Zaha to burst into the space between Mina and Keane.

 

I don't know if this is aimed at me, but if it is you will see I have blamed Keane for plenty of goals this season. He has just been left carrying the monkey on this one and the easy thing to do it blame him instead of looking at why he was left in that position.

Not aimed at anyone in particular mate just a general statement.

Think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this ☺️

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8 hours ago, Bailey said:

At that moment the least dangerous person is Batshuayi. He has the tightest angle to goal giving the keeper the best chance of making the save. 

Even if you don't agree with that, what do you think about these:

1. Should Davies get closer to Milivojevic?

2. Should Godfrey / Siggy track Zaha?

3. Should Schlupp be allowed 5 yards of space in all directions just outside our 18 yard box? 

4. Should the goalkeeper be diving towards his near post?

Those 4 points all refer to really shoddy defensive decisions for a team defending a 1-0 lead. The first 3 decisions all combine to impact Keane's decision making where he is faced with at least a 2 v 1 situation with Batshuayi and Zaha, but potentially a 3 v 1 situation if Mina cant get close enough to Schlupp. 

 

Because he's being marked. As soon as Keane moves he makes him the most dangerous and hands them the goal on a plate.

1. Davies. No, he's in a bank of 4 with the rest of the midfield and goes to close when necessary. Any fan blaming him either knows nothing about football or is a shit fan who blames him for everything.

2. Yea, and they'd be getting moaned at if Zaha had any influence in the goal. But he never.

3. That's on Gbamin for not seeing the run and cutting the passing lane. Still very unlikely to concede from that position with Mina closing down.

4. How's the keeper meant to know what way to go with such little time to react? He has to gamble. You're blaming the keeper for not saving a one on one blast from 10 yards away?

The first two don't impact at all. Keane reacts to the third one but he shouldn't. He should have left it to Mina. The amount of points he's lost us is the difference between champions League football or not. 

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14 hours ago, pete0 said:

The amount of points he's lost us is the difference between champions League football or not. 

So you’re putting this one down to him, fine. But what other lost points are you putting down to Keane?

Also, how many points gained and points won are you putting down to him?

Do you allow him the equaliser against Liverpool? Does he get the one against West Brom that put us 3-2 up? How about the winner against Wolves? 
 

If you’re going to call him out for points lost (I do want to see what anyone considers lost points from him) you also have to take into account points gained. 

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1 hour ago, StevO said:

So you’re putting this one down to him, fine. But what other lost points are you putting down to Keane?

Also, how many points gained and points won are you putting down to him?

Do you allow him the equaliser against Liverpool? Does he get the one against West Brom that put us 3-2 up? How about the winner against Wolves? 
 

If you’re going to call him out for points lost (I do want to see what anyone considers lost points from him) you also have to take into account points gained. 

Already said both Man u games.

Says a lot when you're pointing out goals as things a centre half has done well. 

What matches has he done more than what you'd expect from any average centre half?

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1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Already said both Man u games.

Says a lot when you're pointing out goals as things a centre half has done well. 

What matches has he done more than what you'd expect from any average centre half?

It doesn’t say a lot, but if he does things that costs goals but scores them too it should all be taken into account as it all relative to the points the team gets. 

So just the two United games then? That’s not so bad, dropping points against the second best team in the league. I’ll take that. 
 

He has performed well enough to be considered above average. You must be the only person who hasn’t seen a massive improvement in him this season. Of our four centre halves hes clearly been the best one. If you can’t see that then it’s obvious he is just another player who you don’t like and therefore will never give credit and will always look to criticise. 

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16 minutes ago, StevO said:

You must be the only person who hasn’t seen a massive improvement in him this season. Of our four centre halves hes clearly been the best one.

He's better than the utter dogshit he was when he first came, but my nan could have done a better job than he did his first season. Now he's average at best. 

Better than them? Our biggest game this season just happens to be the one he was dropped for. 

22 minutes ago, StevO said:

So just the two United games then? That’s not so bad, dropping points against the second best team in the league. I’ll take that. 

Were did I say that? I said off the top of my head. Gonna apologise for being manipulative and trying to twist it?

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29 minutes ago, pete0 said:

He's better than the utter dogshit he was when he first came, but my nan could have done a better job than he did his first season. Now he's average at best. 

Better than them? Our biggest game this season just happens to be the one he was dropped for. 

Were did I say that? I said off the top of my head. Gonna apologise for being manipulative and trying to twist it?

you didn’t say off the top of your head. You said “already said both Man U games” in your reply to me. So I’m not being manipulative or trying to twist anything, I’m only responding to the only reply you gave to my question. I’m happy to wait while you think of more times hes cost us points. Because I genuinely don’t think he has. 
I don’t see why you would want an apology from me.


But your first paragraph tells it all. It’s pretty obvious to me that you’ve hated him for quite some time, and it looks like you’re so blinded by that opinion that you can’t accept he’s been the best of our centre backs this season. Doesn’t matter to me, I’m happy with him. If he’s still playing for us next season I’m fine with it. I trust Carlos opinion and he picks him often enough. 

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8 hours ago, StevO said:

So you’re putting this one down to him, fine. But what other lost points are you putting down to Keane?

Also, how many points gained and points won are you putting down to him?

Do you allow him the equaliser against Liverpool? Does he get the one against West Brom that put us 3-2 up? How about the winner against Wolves? 
 

If you’re going to call him out for points lost (I do want to see what anyone considers lost points from him) you also have to take into account points gained. 

I know there was the United game where Holgate came into the side. I really can’t recall off the top of my head exact moments but I know I have felt on a few occasions he could have done better - I think it’s mainly getting drawn to a ball he doesn’t need to or been slightly out of position on crosses by memory.

All that is probably taken with a pinch of salt from me because I have been critical of him before but I do believe it’s those moments that are what separates him from good and very good. This season has undoubtedly been his best however and I hope he continues this trajectory.

 

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2 hours ago, Btay said:

I know there was the United game where Holgate came into the side. I really can’t recall off the top of my head exact moments but I know I have felt on a few occasions he could have done better - I think it’s mainly getting drawn to a ball he doesn’t need to or been slightly out of position on crosses by memory.

All that is probably taken with a pinch of salt from me because I have been critical of him before but I do believe it’s those moments that are what separates him from good and very good. This season has undoubtedly been his best however and I hope he continues this trajectory.

 

I’m sure there are times he’s made errors, every player on the team does. I’m sure there has been times you’ve thought every player could do better as well. If Richarlison and DCL even just performed to their usual level on Monday we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation anyway. 
Being out of position on crosses won’t be that often, that’s probably his best attribute. 
 

That last sentence. That’s the one!!

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7 hours ago, StevO said:

you didn’t say off the top of your head. You said “already said both Man U games” in your reply to me. So I’m not being manipulative or trying to twist anything, I’m only responding to the only reply you gave to my question. I’m happy to wait while you think of more times hes cost us points. Because I genuinely don’t think he has. 
I don’t see why you would want an apology from me.


But your first paragraph tells it all. It’s pretty obvious to me that you’ve hated him for quite some time, and it looks like you’re so blinded by that opinion that you can’t accept he’s been the best of our centre backs this season. Doesn’t matter to me, I’m happy with him. If he’s still playing for us next season I’m fine with it. I trust Carlos opinion and he picks him often enough. 

Apologies, my previous post mustn't have sent. I am certain I wrote off the top of my head man u. 

The point still stands though. I didn't say no other game than man u. You gonna apologise for twisting it?

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On 08/04/2021 at 07:16, pete0 said:

Because he's being marked. As soon as Keane moves he makes him the most dangerous and hands them the goal on a plate.

1. Davies. No, he's in a bank of 4 with the rest of the midfield and goes to close when necessary. Any fan blaming him either knows nothing about football or is a shit fan who blames him for everything.

2. Yea, and they'd be getting moaned at if Zaha had any influence in the goal. But he never.

3. That's on Gbamin for not seeing the run and cutting the passing lane. Still very unlikely to concede from that position with Mina closing down.

4. How's the keeper meant to know what way to go with such little time to react? He has to gamble. You're blaming the keeper for not saving a one on one blast from 10 yards away?

The first two don't impact at all. Keane reacts to the third one but he shouldn't. He should have left it to Mina. The amount of points he's lost us is the difference between champions League football or not. 

Ah okay, closing down doesn't matter. Having a spare man creating an overload doesn't matter. A keeper with poor positioning doesn't matter. Leaving a man completely free doesn't matter. I give up, I really do. Have a good day Pete.

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1 hour ago, Bailey said:

Ah okay, closing down doesn't matter. Having a spare man creating an overload doesn't matter. A keeper with poor positioning doesn't matter. Leaving a man completely free doesn't matter. I give up, I really do. Have a good day Pete.

So he's meant to break formation and go mark a player 20 yards further up who hasn't even received the ball?

Give up? You need to start again if you think Keane is fine too leave a man in the box, and last week Gomes not staying goalside. These are basics.

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12 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Probably up there with Godfrey and Doucoure for player of the year so far.... improved a great deal.  

Solid player. 

Looking at the likes the clique are in action again 😂 although I do agree that this has been probably his best season performance wise in an Everton shirt, and should have gotten him a recall to the England squad. 

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49 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Back on to Keane.

He is still our number one CB for me. He isn’t perfect by a long stretch, but I always feel much more comfortable seeing his name on the team sheet than not.

Ideally he would be much more tougher and combative, a bit like Godfrey. But that isn’t him.

Get Allan and doucoure back and magically you’ll see a lot of pressure come off our CB.  It’s a wholistic view but I think the new signings this summer and everyone back to fitness and we can become the stout defense again.

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1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said:

Get Allan and doucoure back and magically you’ll see a lot of pressure come off our CB.  It’s a wholistic view but I think the new signings this summer and everyone back to fitness and we can become the stout defense again.

This. The team on the whole is better with these two. The attacks have more freedom and the defence has more support. 
Saying that, when we had them at the start of the season we conceded plenty of goal, but we did tend to out score the opposition a lot. 

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I’ve no time at all for Keane. Arrived out of nowhere and was everywhere all of a sudden. Soft and southern. Overated overhyped and whiny. Started complaining about fame and press intrusion and then ended up in rehab after a couple of babyshams. And so many others had done the bass, drums and keyboard, no guitar thing before. Still everything changes was good but other than that Terrible band.

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16 minutes ago, badaids said:

I’ve no time at all for Keane. Arrived out of nowhere and was everywhere all of a sudden. Soft and southern. Overated overhyped and whiny. Started complaining about fame and press intrusion and then ended up in rehab after a couple of babyshams. And so many others had done the bass, drums and keyboard, no guitar thing before. Still everything changes was good but other than that Terrible band.

😂 I wondered where you were going with that. 

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