Michael Keane

[Paddock]

 he’s got a hamstring injury I think- he is defo injured though

[pete0]

Meant to be back for West ham. 

[chicagoblue]

3 hours ago, pete0 said:

Meant to be back for West ham. 

Yay ... 

[pete0]

15 minutes ago, chicagoblue said:

Yay ... 

Holgate not Keane 

[chicagoblue]

40 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Holgate not Keane 

Fair play.  Should be the 3 of them (Holgate, WIlliams, Jags) at the back then. 

[Newty82]

I know it doesn't take much but I was surprised to see that statistically (uh oh...stats!!!), he's actually one of our better players. And so far as defensive players go, he's by far our best performer.

Wins in many areas: Interceptions, Clearances, Blocked Shots, Tackles % Won, Arial Duels % Won. Even his pass accuracy % is quite high considering his average pass length is several metres more than others.

He doesn't do too bad against others in the league either, considering our shite performances do far.

Food for thought. Maybe a bit of hope there yet.

[Bailey]

Just now, Newty82 said:

I know it doesn't take much but I was surprised to see that statistically (uh oh...stats!!!), he's actually one of our better players. And so far as defensive players go, he's by far our best performer.

Wins in many areas: Interceptions, Clearances, Blocked Shots, Tackles % Won, Arial Duels % Won. Even his pass accuracy % is quite high considering his average pass length is several metres more than others.

He doesn't do too bad against others in the league either, considering our shite performances do far.

Food for thought. Maybe a bit of hope there yet.

Thats why you should never rely solely on stats. Playing a big part of 3 of the goals we conceded at the weekend shows there is a problem!

[Newty82]

1 minute ago, Bailey said:

Thats why you should never rely solely on stats. Playing a big part of 3 of the goals we conceded at the weekend shows there is a problem!

I never do. But they do tell a story...

I think he was shite on Sunday. But, again, as I remember it, the team was shite in just about every department...that shows the problem. And the stats are for the season, not one game.

Again, it's all about this honing in on individuals when said individuals are doing more than several other players.

I ain't judging too much at the moment as we have collectively been very poor.

[Bailey]

10 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

I never do. But they do tell a story...

I think he was shite on Sunday. But, again, as I remember it, the team was shite in just about every department...that shows the problem. And the stats are for the season, not one game.

Again, it's all about this honing in on individuals when said individuals are doing more than several other players.

I ain't judging too much at the moment as we have collectively been very poor.

That bottom paragraph is worth keeping in mind because it's hard to look good in a shit team. It's an excuse I use all the time

[Newty82]

4 minutes ago, Bailey said:

That bottom paragraph is worth keeping in mind because it's hard to look good in a shit team. It's an excuse I use all the time

Haha...yeah for sure.

[Newty82]

....and PeteO is in the background, urging himself not to have a go!!!

Haha...

[MC11]

He had absolute dogshit playing next to him. Right across the back four. I'm still not sure about him but FFS imagine playing next to Kenny, Jagielka, Williams and Baines right now. 3 are completely finished the other is nowhere near ready

 

[Newty82]

Just now, MC11 said:

He had absolute dogshit playing next to him. Right across the back four. I'm still not sure about him but FFS imagine playing next to Kenny, Jagielka, Williams and Baines right now. 3 are completely finished the other is nowhere near ready

 

Record this moment in the TT archives...

I concur.

Fuck, that was hard to do.

What hasnt helped him with regards to Kenny is not so much that it's Kenny...but that it has also been Holgate and Martina. Plus a mix of Jags and Williams on the other side. How do you build a good understanding with forever changing partners? But then that's our problem as a whole this season.

[chicagoblue]

I still just can't see it at all.  He looks more like a statue than a footballer.  Strikes me as the type of defender who may be competent in a single particular system, but he lacks the mobility and athleticism to adapt to any other style of play.  

[Isaiah]

My (faint) hope for him is that John Stones was a laughing stock when he first went to City, he was fucking up on a near constant basis and their fans were tearing into him, yet by all accounts he's been immense this season. Now, of course, he's had Pep to tutor him, which counts for something, but still...I think there's a lot of talent in Keane and he needs someone to bring it out. 

[c1982]

1 hour ago, MC11 said:

He had absolute dogshit playing next to him. Right across the back four. I'm still not sure about him but FFS imagine playing next to Kenny, Jagielka, Williams and Baines right now. 3 are completely finished the other is nowhere near ready

 

Have to agree with this really... sadly Kenny - however much of a prospect we may have - has really struggled in our current situation. I want him to succeed but don’t think he looks as good as the deserved hype from u23s/ youth World Cup he earned.

[Bailey]

9 hours ago, c1982 said:

Have to agree with this really... sadly Kenny - however much of a prospect we may have - has really struggled in our current situation. I want him to succeed but don’t think he looks as good as the deserved hype from u23s/ youth World Cup he earned.

He struggled to start with but I think he has been our best player for the last 3 or 4 games. Defensively he has improved massively in a short period of time.

[Romey 1878]

55 minutes ago, Bailey said:

He struggled to start with but I think he has been our best player for the last 3 or 4 games. Defensively he has improved massively in a short period of time.

I've been mostly impressed with how he's grown defensively, but hugely disappointed in his attacking play. I expected so much more in that respect and he's offered next to nothing. I'm hoping that that is just down to the team as a whole being a shambles in terms of attack, and that if that clicks for the team then we'll see what he can really do.

[Bailey]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

I've been mostly impressed with how he's grown defensively, but hugely disappointed in his attacking play. I expected so much more in that respect and he's offered next to nothing. I'm hoping that that is just down to the team as a whole being a shambles in terms of attack, and that if that clicks for the team then we'll see what he can really do.

I think it is because we have been so shit. Once we start holding onto the ball again,  he should be able to break forward.

[c1982]

5 hours ago, Bailey said:

He struggled to start with but I think he has been our best player for the last 3 or 4 games. Defensively he has improved massively in a short period of time.

He’s definitely been one of our better players but they’ve all been very poor, including Kenny, in my opinion.

[c1982]

8 hours ago, c1982 said:

He’s definitely been one of our better players but they’ve all been very poor, including Kenny, in my opinion.

Kenny was excellent tonight... it probably helped not playing next to a statue. Having so few defenders actually helped tonight as Holgate wouldn’t have played right cb with all fit - I hope it continues.

On Williams, again credit where it’s due, he was excellent as the senior cb with his mate Holgate (I read Holgate saying Williams is his best mate somewhere).

[chicagoblue]

59 minutes ago, c1982 said:

Kenny was excellent tonight... it probably helped not playing next to a statue. Having so few defenders actually helped tonight as Holgate wouldn’t have played right cb with all fit - I hope it continues.

On Williams, again credit where it’s due, he was excellent as the senior cb with his mate Holgate (I read Holgate saying Williams is his best mate somewhere).

Even ignoring that ridiculous lunge for the PK, excellent is still a bridge too far.  He did well enough, but that moment of madness could easily have turned into a doom spiral.  

[Bailey]

38 minutes ago, chicagoblue said:

Even ignoring that ridiculous lunge for the PK, excellent is still a bridge too far.  He did well enough, but that moment of madness could easily have turned into a doom spiral.  

But for that moment of stupidity I thought he was near faultless. The number of balls he cleared from the front post was impressive. Holgate didn't put a foot wrong either. We werent exactly tested but at the same time they dealt with almost everything that came their way.

[Romey 1878]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

But for that moment of stupidity I thought he was near faultless. The number of balls he cleared from the front post was impressive. Holgate didn't put a foot wrong either. We werent exactly tested but at the same time they dealt with almost everything that came their way.

Agreed on Williams. Apart from the penalty he was superb. 

Dont agree about Holgate though. He started the game very sloppily and was lucky not give a goal away. Once he got over his nerves or whatever he was brilliant though. 

[Bailey]

20 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Agreed on Williams. Apart from the penalty he was superb. 

Dont agree about Holgate though. He started the game very sloppily and was lucky not give a goal away. Once he got over his nerves or whatever he was brilliant though. 

I missed the first 20 mins so that probably explains it!

[pete0]

Think this lad might be our worst signing ever, not on talent but overall cost and effectiveness. In short he adds nothing to the squad and cost a fortune. £30m and he'll be 5th choice once Mori is fit and only because of his price tag as he's no better than Pennington, Browning, Galloway, Foulds, and Feeney. 

There no way he has been scouted fully, never stood out to me and in the game against us when I focused on him, as we were linked, Mee was the standout.

All I can surmise is that Walsh is a moneyball fraud. Pick on stats and then pure luck if it works. Would anyone pick Gana over Kante? As that's what Walsh done at Leicester only Villa pipped them. Bet Keane's stats are one of the best in the league last year as there's no way he's been scouted from the stands. Straight away you'd see how much he struggles with nippy players. Flat footed, turns like a bus, slower than me nan would be the notes in your little book on him. Rather have brought Duffy back. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Think this lad might be our worst signing ever, not on talent but overall cost and effectiveness. In short he adds nothing to the squad and cost a fortune. £30m and he'll be 5th choice once Mori is fit and only because of his price tag as he's no better than Pennington, Browning, Galloway, Foulds, and Feeney. 
There no way he has been scouted fully, never stood out to me and in the game against us when I focused on him, as we were linked, Mee was the standout.
All I can surmise is that Walsh is a moneyball fraud. Pick on stats and then pure luck if it works. Would anyone pick Gana over Kante? As that's what Walsh done at Leicester only Villa pipped them. Bet Keane's stats are one of the best in the league last year as there's no way he's been scouted from the stands. Straight away you'd see how much he struggles with nippy players. Flat footed, turns like a bus, slower than me nan would be the notes in your little book on him. Rather have brought Duffy back. 

I’ve never really seen Foulds or Feeney play so couldn’t really comment on them but he is way better than Pennington Galloway or Browning

The problem is he was being asked to do things he isn’t comfortable with and his confidence was totally shot as a result
I think he will come good once he gets his confidence back, thought he was excellent against Chelsea, and he will be better than Jags, Williams and Mori

[London Blue]

24 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

 

 

I’ve never really seen Foulds or Feeney play so couldn’t really comment on them but he is way better than Pennington Galloway or Browning

The problem is he was being asked to do things he isn’t comfortable with and his confidence was totally shot as a result
I think he will come good once he gets his confidence back, thought he was excellent against Chelsea, and he will be better than Jags, Williams and Mori



 

 

 

Quality performance from the lad yesterday, so assured, won some great tackles and headers. Looked more the player we thought we signed. 

[MikeO]

4 hours ago, pete0 said:

There no way he has been scouted fully, never stood out to me and in the game against us when I focused on him, as we were linked, Mee was the standout.

But our scouts and England scouts rated/rate him ahead of Mee.

Is this your new whipping boy while Gana is injured? You always seem to need one.

[Bill]

1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

I think he will come good once he gets his confidence back, thought he was excellent against Chelsea, and he will be better than Jags, Williams and Mori

 

 

 

Considering that two of them are past their sell by date, and the other one is a permanent feature in the medical room,  that won't be difficult Dunc.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Considering that two of them are past their sell by date, and the other one is a permanent feature in the medical room,  that won't be difficult Dunc.

Maybe so but either way IMHO he is far from being our worst ever signing

[Bill]

Oh no way, I agree with you on that.

[Bailey]

Whilst he was better in general play, he was still largely responsible for two big chances against us and he missed a sitter at the other end.

That isn'tt what I would describe as a "quality" or "excellent" performance.

[London Blue]

13 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Whilst he was better in general play, he was still largely responsible for two big chances against us and he missed a sitter at the other end.

That isn'ttt what I would describe as a "quality" or "excellent" performance.

From my seat at goodison he looked very good. Coco was responsable for most of the chances we conceded. 

[c1982]

3 hours ago, MikeO said:

But our scouts and England scouts rated/rate him ahead of Mee.

Is this your new whipping boy while Gana is injured? You always seem to need one.

Shhhh... stop!!! peteO knows exactly what he’s doing  - he said Harry Kane was shite and he’s going on to break all sorts of records in 2017... so Keane being our worst ever signing really means he’ll be winning the Ballon d’or next year.

[pete0]

6 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

The problem is he was being asked to do things he isn’t comfortable with and his confidence was totally shot as a result

Like defend and play football. He was tied in mid knots than a lead scout on stand. 

6 hours ago, London Blue said:

Quality performance from the lad yesterday, so assured, won some great tackles and headers. Looked more the player we thought we signed. 

Said no one during the match or motm thread... People questioned how he was Sky's motm. Mad what reputation can do for yer. 

5 hours ago, MikeO said:

But our scouts and England scouts rated/rate him ahead of Mee.

Is this your new whipping boy while Gana is injured? You always seem to need one.

When I started following football they neglected Dave Watson yet picked Martin Keown. Their selection policy is still just as poor. Warnock over Baines, Hart over anyone (he's never even been close to being the best keeper in the country), Jordan Henderson CAPTAIN! Danny Mills, that shit RB at Liverpool Glenn someone (I cba googling his name), Welbeck on the wing, Gerrard at the last World Cup, Carragher, Butt, Solanke.. basically anyone from the top 6.

Keane was flavour of the month, amazing what good press gets you. Just look at Stones, no minutes at the WC to first choice without playing a game for City but the papers changing their writings on him. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

When I started following football they neglected Dave Watson yet picked Martin Keown. Their selection policy is still just as poor. Warnock over Baines, Hart over anyone (he's never even been close to being the best keeper in the country), Jordan Henderson CAPTAIN! Danny Mills, that shit RB at Liverpool Glenn someone (I cba googling his name), Welbeck on the wing, Gerrard at the last World Cup, Carragher, Butt, Solanke.. basically anyone from the top 6.
Keane was flavour of the month, amazing what good press gets you. Just look at Stones, no minutes at the WC to first choice without playing a game for City but the papers changing their writings on him. 

I’m guessing that means a yes to mike’s question then !

I loved Dave Watson but Keown was light years better. Interesting comparison though because I reckon Keane is a Watson style defender who was asked to do a Stones type job

[pete0]

8 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

 

I’m guessing that means a yes to mike’s question then !

I loved Dave Watson but Keown was light years better. Interesting comparison though because I reckon Keane is a Watson style defender who was asked to do a Stones type job

 

 

Doubt he'll be the team. I've not said much positive about Keane since before he joined the club, not a whipping boy, just simply not good enough. Gana is energetic, but without purpose. Nothing going forward and defensively wins the ball only to them concede possession. Waste of a place in the team. 

I doubt many would have sold Watson instead. Don't think we've ever managed to replace him yet. Whereas we've had many Keown. The last bit makes no sense to me, Keane has no where near the grit of Watson. He's a gentle giant. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Doubt he'll be the team. I've not said much positive about Keane since before he joined the club, not a whipping boy, just simply not good enough. Gana is energetic, not without purpose. Nothing going forward and defensively wins the ball only to them concede possession. Waste of a place in the team. 
I doubt many would have sold Watson instead. Don't think we've ever managed to replace him yet. Whereas we've had many Keown. The last bit makes no sense to me, Keane has no where near the grit of Watson. He's a gentle giant. 

We have extremely different views on football!

[Bailey]

7 minutes ago, pete0 said:

He's a gentle giant. 

That’s the difference between him and Williams. The latter is aggressive, biting into tackles, on the front foot, and getting across that front post. Keane is the opposite, he seems happier dropping off and he isn’t physical enough at times. It could be a confidence thing because I don' remember him being like that at Burnley.

[pete0]

1 minute ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

We have extremely different views on football!

 

In the 90s Watson and Weir set a standard for me as what to expect from a centre half. I'm unsure how much older you are than me but before that we were successful in the 80s so I assume you must be close to 50 at least and saw some shite for us in the past. I have a similar opinion on keepers with Big Nev and Martyn setting a bar, so far only Pickford has come close in that position. 

 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

In the 90s Watson and Weir set a standard for me as what to expect from a centre half. I'm unsure how much older you are than me but before that we were successful in the 80s so I assume you must be close to 50 at least and saw some shite for us in the past. I have a similar opinion on keepers with Big Nev and Martyn setting a bar, so far only Pickford has come close in that position. 

 

You got my age spot on and so yes I have seen a lot of shite , nothing as bad as this season though, but I’ve also had the privilege of watching the most successful side in the clubs history

 

Agree on the keepers, however even though Tim Howard never reached those heights he was still a very good keeper for nearly a decade

 

 

[pete0]

15 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

You got my age spot on and so yes I have seen a lot of shite , nothing as bad as this season though, but I’ve also had the privilege of watching the most successful side in the clubs history

 

Agree on the keepers, however even though Tim Howard never reached those heights he was still a very good keeper for nearly a decade

 

 

We agree to disagree but agree a little sort of aha.

I'll not argue (for any further for once/since it's Christmas), so on that sort of neutral I'll say Merry Christmas Dunc; merry Christmas TT 🎅 

[London Blue]

9 hours ago, pete0 said:

Like defend and play football. He was tied in mid knots than a lead scout on stand. 

Said no one during the match or motm thread... People questioned how he was Sky's motm. Mad what reputation can do for yer. 

When I started following football they neglected Dave Watson yet picked Martin Keown. Their selection policy is still just as poor. Warnock over Baines, Hart over anyone (he's never even been close to being the best keeper in the country), Jordan Henderson CAPTAIN! Danny Mills, that shit RB at Liverpool Glenn someone (I cba googling his name), Welbeck on the wing, Gerrard at the last World Cup, Carragher, Butt, Solanke.. basically anyone from the top 6.

Keane was flavour of the month, amazing what good press gets you. Just look at Stones, no minutes at the WC to first choice without playing a game for City but the papers changing their writings on him. 

I was at the match and saw his performance first hand. Keane put in a very good shift and looked a quality player.  I was too busy watching and enjoying being at Goodison to be posting.

Merry Christmas to everyone.

[Romey 1878]

Allardyce was very happy with his performance, so that'll do me as he knows a good defensive showing when he sees one.

[Shukes]

2 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Allardyce was very happy with his performance, so that'll do me as he knows a good defensive showing when he sees one.

Does this mean you agree with his comments in Cuco as well then 😉

[Romey 1878]

Just now, Shukes said:

Does this mean you agree with his comments in Cuco as well then 😉

He's been fine the past few games, Shukes. He's still not good enough long-term, but while he's solid I can cope with him until we get a better player in.

[Shukes]

4 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

He's been fine the past few games, Shukes. He's still not good enough long-term, but while he's solid I can cope with him until we get a better player in.

Not good enough... I though I cast that out well.

No I agree with you. He isn’t what we want, but he is good enough until we get better.

On Keane. He doesn’t look strong or aggressive enough for me. He gets bullied and holds off against certain opponents. Remember him against Lukaku last year.... it reminded me off players running alongside Messi without putting a foot in.

[London Blue]

8 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

He's been fine the past few games, Shukes. He's still not good enough long-term, but while he's solid I can cope with him until we get a better player in.

He was aweful against Chelsea, his poor positioning and defensive frailties ment that Siggy was limited going forward as he had to cover Coco. 

[Romey 1878]

Just now, Shukes said:

Not good enough... I though I cast that out well.

No I agree with you. He isn’t what we want, but he is good enough until we get better.

On Keane. He doesn’t look strong or aggressive enough for me. He gets bullied and holds off against certain opponents. Remember him against Lukaku last year.... it reminded me off players running alongside Messi without putting a foot in.

I agree that he hasn't been aggressive enough, that definitely needs to improve, but I think there's enough to work with in him and Allardyce will hopefully get the potential out of him.

[Matt]

He's a mix of Jags and Stones in my opinion. Once he's settled into the back 4 on a more permanent basis, I've no doubt he'll shine.

[MC11]

Not looking good is it.

[Hafnia]

Turns like the arc royal... needs a proper centre half with him.  Williams and jags are finished. 

[pete0]

45 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Turns like the arc royal... needs a proper centre half with him.  Williams and jags are finished. 

But still a better option than Keane. 

[aaron]

Struggling for form isn'tt he. Think Haf has it right there, needs a solid CB pairing, I still think he will come good, but right now he needs to be left out the starting line up.

[Blueherts]

By playing him and holgate with the old folks week in week out we're just wasting valuable time. They need to learn to play together soon. And fast.

[Paddock]

My biggest worry with him is his body language and the fact he seems a big shit house. Turning his back on crosses and shots, doesn’t seem to want to put a hair out of place and moping about. I was hoping Allerdyce would grab him by his ear and twist it out of shape a bit and butt him and tell him to get his fucking poncey finger out of his pretty boy arse. He’s a centre half not a winger the little fairy.

[pete0]

3 minutes ago, Paddock said:

My biggest worry with him is his body language and the fact he seems a big shit house. Turning his back on crosses and shots, doesn’t seem to want to put a hair out of place and moping about. I was hoping Allerdyce would grab him by his ear and twist it out of shape a bit and butt him and tell him to get his fucking poncey finger out of his pretty boy arse. He’s a centre half not a winger the little fairy.

He's more astro boy, other than that I agree. Here's hoping Crystal Palace want him and give us our fee back as they did for the kopites flops. 

[markjazzbassist]

1 hour ago, aaron said:

Struggling for form isn'ttt he. Think Haf has it right there, needs a solid CB pairing, I still think he will come good, but right now he needs to be left out the starting line up.

agreed i think he will become a solid player.

1 hour ago, Blueherts said:

By playing him and holgate with the old folks week in week out we're just wasting valuable time. They need to learn to play together soon. And fast.

agree as well, holgate and keane should be the pairing, get the future going now.

[MC11]

Holgate and Williams should be the pairing as we've actually kept clean sheets with them. As soon as Keane has come back in we've started to lose games.