Tom Davies

[EFC-Paul]

10 minutes ago, Matt said:

I get LBs initial sentiment, I’m not sure it’s directed at any one person but more of a general observation. Got a little OTT with his last post mind you.

Out of all the crap players at the game, Davies seems to be getting more stick than others, justified or not. 

I think people will stick up for him more than usual simply because of what’s happened in the past with our young, promising yet frustrating midfield talents. 

I get it as well mate but it isn'tt what's been said implied or happened he's just thrown out a nonsensical blanket comment

He'll be the focus of the criticism/debate because he's been consistently inconsistent and to many people he doesn't do much to justify starting games, it has nothing to do with age or being homegrown I think he has a place in the squad but not in the first eleven 

I get Bailey's point side's do have those types of players many top successful sides as he pointed out United being a great example have had them over the years, hopefully he kicks on and has a place here down the line in a similar way 

[markjazzbassist]

if He played for any other team and wasn’t local no one would care about this guy, take off the blue glasses.  Richarlison 1 year older and light years ahead in growth and ability and his ceiling is much higher.  Just the way it is, I see Davies as rodwell mk ii

[Bill]

1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said:

if He played for any other team and wasn’t local no one would care about this guy, take off the blue glasses.  Richarlison 1 year older and light years ahead in growth and ability and his ceiling is much higher.  Just the way it is, I see Davies as rodwell mk ii

I think Davies will work hard to get better, whereas Rodwell worked hard to get worse.

[Steve_E]

On 02/09/2018 at 10:16, Bailey said:

FWIW Davies passing accuracy was 89.7%, the second highest of all the starters behind Schneiderlin.

There's inacurate 'accurate' passes as well though: even a pass that is 'accurate' can be a shit pass if it's a bit too short and forces a player to wait for the ball or if it forces a player too wide, et cetera. And Davies so far has been lacking quality as a passer as far as I can tell watching the games.

[StevO]

The blame game shifted from Barkley to Davies after the Chelsea move. 

Might only be near me in the upper gwladys but we always have someone to get on the back off, it’s just a shame it’s normally a young local lad. Hibbo and Ossie both used to get it, pretty much all the way through their careers. 

[Bailey]

4 hours ago, Steve_E said:

There's inacurate 'accurate' passes as well though: even a pass that is 'accurate' can be a shit pass if it's a bit too short and forces a player to wait for the ball or if it forces a player too wide, et cetera. And Davies so far has been lacking quality as a passer as far as I can tell watching the games.

I would say he is no better or worse than Gana but both are worse than Schneiderlin in that regard. 

[Bailey]

5 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

if He played for any other team and wasn’t local no one would care about this guy, take off the blue glasses.  Richarlison 1 year older and light years ahead in growth and ability and his ceiling is much higher.  Just the way it is, I see Davies as rodwell mk ii

I dont get this either. He is one of us and we should give him extra support because he knows what it is like to be an Evertonian, he has roots in the local area and community and like Jags, Bained, Ossie, Hibbert etc before him he will help the new lads coming in to understand what this club is. Furthermore he is also a beacon of hope for the young lads hoping to break through as well.

That doesnt mean he should start every week, it doesnt mean it should guarentee him anything for that matter but it would cost us at least £10mil to replace him with a like for like player and probably more in wages than Davies too. He is valuable to the squad and he can come in and do the job Silva asks.

IMO these type of lads are our identity. If we lose what it means to be Everton then we will just become another Chelsea and end up sacking our manager every 5 minutes and paying £20-30 million on players like Bakayoko or Falcao when Ruben Loftus-Cheek or Sturridge are on loan somewhere else. 

Regarding your Richarlison comparison you can include half the squad in that who are much older and experienced. He is just a cut above most!

[nogs]

17 hours ago, StevO said:

The blame game shifted from Barkley to Davies after the Chelsea move. 

Might only be near me in the upper gwladys but we always have someone to get on the back off, it’s just a shame it’s normally a young local lad. Hibbo and Ossie both used to get it, pretty much all the way through their careers. 

This 100%. Boils my blood the way the local lads get singled out. If someone can please explain to me why Morgan Schneiderlin is the kind of midfielder we need to progress to the next level but Davies should be playing in the Championship, I will take it all back. 

I've said it many times, CM is our weakest position on the pitch, now that we've signed a couple of centre backs anyway. Schneiderlin and Gana are what you see, they won't get any better. Davies is 20 and has 50-plus Prem games under his belt. In four, five years he has the potential to be world class because he is still developing. But if people would rather see another home grown talent fuck off elsewhere, keep showing the lack of patience, keep slagging the young ones off. And I'll repeat - I see absolutely no reason to keep singling the boy out when out of the other two CMs we have, one doesn't know what a forward pass is and the other is just as wasteful in possession. 

Anyway, rant over, that's just my opinion of course. 

[Matt]

19 hours ago, Bill said:

I think Davies will work hard to get better, whereas Rodwell worked hard to get worse.

Harsh on Rodwell. He was basically pushed out of the club and failed to make it at City. It’s not like he tried to capitulate his career

[Gatesy]

I sit close to the middle on Davies probably lean more to the not good enough side...

I think the majority of people who like him give him far too much credit but on the other hand i think the majority of people who don't like him give him far too much stick...

I look at it as if we had signed him from another side he would have probably been firmly benched now, it may be due to his age or some other circumstances but he is NOT ready for regular first team football, he always wants to do something positive but right now his decision making and all round quality is not up to scratch he constantly runs himself into trouble and picks some ridiculous passes to make, going off Saturday alone he passed people into a cul-de-sac on numerous occasions resulting in loss of possession, when Gylfi went off especially the ball rarely traveled forwards as both Davies and Morgan are far to happy to pass the ball sideways and backwards...

All in all we do need better quality in the middle and i'm hoping some of the injured signings can bring that, McCarthy would be perfect as well but his injuries have just stopped him reaching his potential... 

[Romey 1878]

2 hours ago, nogs said:

This 100%. Boils my blood the way the local lads get singled out. If someone can please explain to me why Morgan Schneiderlin is the kind of midfielder we need to progress to the next level but Davies should be playing in the Championship, I will take it all back. 

I've said it many times, CM is our weakest position on the pitch, now that we've signed a couple of centre backs anyway. Schneiderlin and Gana are what you see, they won't get any better. Davies is 20 and has 50-plus Prem games under his belt. In four, five years he has the potential to be world class because he is still developing. But if people would rather see another home grown talent fuck off elsewhere, keep showing the lack of patience, keep slagging the young ones off. And I'll repeat - I see absolutely no reason to keep singling the boy out when out of the other two CMs we have, one doesn't know what a forward pass is and the other is just as wasteful in possession. 

Anyway, rant over, that's just my opinion of course. 

What in his game suggests to you that he could be world class? Genuine question by the way because, like I've said, I've watched him closely and I really don't see a thing about him that even hints at him being anything more than an average, run of the mill player. And that's no disgrace to a player but there are plenty, like yourself, that think he's got the potential to be something special, and I am massively intrigued as to why.

I don't think the local lads do get singled out you know. I think the criticism of them just gets people's backs up more than it does when it's a player that's been brought in. Schneiderlin got booed onto the pitch. Bolasie had people celebrating when he was shipped out. Tosun's getting stick already. Gana gets it. Sigurdsson has had people on his back. People just froth at the mouth when a lad like Davies gets pulled up for some pretty poor performances. 

I don't agree with giving any player stick at the game or over social media, it doesn't help. They get my backing 100% where it matters. I save my venting for here.

[pete0]

29 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

What in his game suggests to you that he could be world class? Genuine question by the way because, like I've said, I've watched him closely and I really don't see a thing about him that even hints at him being anything more than an average, run of the mill player. And that's no disgrace to a player but there are plenty, like yourself, that think he's got the potential to be something special, and I am massively intrigued as to why.

I don't think the local lads do get singled out you know. I think the criticism of them just gets people's backs up more than it does when it's a player that's been brought in. Schneiderlin got booed onto the pitch. Bolasie had people celebrating when he was shipped out. Tosun's getting stick already. Gana gets it. Sigurdsson has had people on his back. People just froth at the mouth when a lad like Davies gets pulled up for some pretty poor performances. 

I don't agree with giving any player stick at the game or over social media, it doesn't help. They get my backing 100% where it matters. I save my venting for here.

He's very football intelligent and a much better passer than people give him credit for. He's a little slow pace wise and not got the greatest shot on him but they're the only two negatives I notice. 

He seems to have a reputation for being sloppy with possession from which people jump on his back from the first misplaced pass. Which considering our lack of movement last year was more often the receivers fault, plus how many times do we moan a player should have gone to the ball. Even this year there's been moans on his passing yet he's the one who takes the risk, he started a move against Rotherham with a first touch outside of the boot pass which I'd never imagine any of the other centre mids doing at the club. 

I don't know the stats to back it up but I'd imagine when he plays we get into the oppositions half more and play with a faster tempo. 

[Romey 1878]

25 minutes ago, pete0 said:

He's very football intelligent and a much better passer than people give him credit for. He's a little slow pace wise and not got the greatest shot on him but they're the only two negatives I notice. 

He seems to have a reputation for being sloppy with possession from which people jump on his back from the first misplaced pass. Which considering our lack of movement last year was more often the receivers fault, plus how many times do we moan a player should have gone to the ball. Even this year there's been moans on his passing yet he's the one who takes the risk, he started a move against Rotherham with a first touch outside of the boot pass which I'd never imagine any of the other centre mids doing at the club. 

I don't know the stats to back it up but I'd imagine when he plays we get into the oppositions half more and play with a faster tempo. 

None of that screams world class or convinces me he will be.

His passing really is poor, and it's exacerbated by his decision-making which is pretty crap too. That decision-making is something I can agree with that will improve as he plays more, but until then it's compounding his poor passing. His passing is actually a bit bizarre - he's not just content with under-hitting passes, he also loves to absolutely fire it at his teammates as well. So while he makes himself look bad, he also plays his teammates into trouble as well. Maybe a lot of that is down to a lack of confidence in him, but on the other hand he'll have the simplest of passes on but he'll do something that's more complicated and fuck things up.

I simply do not get what people see in him at all. Quite frankly, I see him as a walking disaster that needs to do not just a little bit of improving, but a hell of a lot of work to even be a valuable squad member at this moment in time. I sincerely hope he does it and makes me eat my words. I want any player of ours that I don't rate to do that, whether they came through our academy or were bought.

[EFC-Paul]

2 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

What in his game suggests to you that he could be world class? Genuine question by the way because, like I've said, I've watched him closely and I really don't see a thing about him that even hints at him being anything more than an average, run of the mill player. And that's no disgrace to a player but there are plenty, like yourself, that think he's got the potential to be something special, and I am massively intrigued as to why.

I don't think the local lads do get singled out you know. I think the criticism of them just gets people's backs up more than it does when it's a player that's been brought in. Schneiderlin got booed onto the pitch. Bolasie had people celebrating when he was shipped out. Tosun's getting stick already. Gana gets it. Sigurdsson has had people on his back. People just froth at the mouth when a lad like Davies gets pulled up for some pretty poor performances. 

I don't agree with giving any player stick at the game or over social media, it doesn't help. They get my backing 100% where it matters. I save my venting for here.

Spot on

[markjazzbassist]

blame game?  do i go to the match and yell at tom?  no.  do i go on social media and bash him?  no.  i simply said if he wasn't a local lad no one would care about this guy.  sometimes as evertonians we take the local lads WAY to serious and want them all to be worldies, simply put by Ste they can't be.  less than 5% make it and probably .5% become actual worldies ala gerrard.  he's not great and that's fine, i'm not being mean about it just saying i don't think he will cut it.

[aaron]

Up for the Golden Boy Award!

[EFC-Paul]

2 hours ago, aaron said:

Up for the Golden Boy Award!

Some very odd nominees on that list especially the ones from over here, good on the lad though can only do his confidence the world of good 

[StevO]

Reminds me of Ossie a little bit. I hope he goes on to be as useful, but probably a whole lot further developed at this point in his career than Leon was. I just think he can be a very steady player in there, who can be very good at the basics under the eye of a good coach, and can occasionally do something brilliant. 

He doesn’t have to go on to be world class, but if he goes on to be a very average member of our squad id take that. Not many get to be average at that level. 

[Romey 1878]

20 minutes ago, StevO said:

Reminds me of Ossie a little bit. I hope he goes on to be as useful, but probably a whole lot further developed at this point in his career than Leon was. I just think he can be a very steady player in there, who can be very good at the basics under the eye of a good coach, and can occasionally do something brilliant. 

He doesn’t have to go on to be world class, but if he goes on to be a very average member of our squad id take that. Not many get to be average at that level. 

I’d be ecstatic if he went on to be an average player, Steve. Seriously. It’s a squad game. 

It’s when people talk about him being something special (or capable of it), a £30m player, that I raise an eyebrow. 

[Bailey]

5 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

blame game?  do i go to the match and yell at tom?  no.  do i go on social media and bash him?  no.  i simply said if he wasn't a local lad no one would care about this guy.  sometimes as evertonians we take the local lads WAY to serious and want them all to be worldies, simply put by Ste they can't be.  less than 5% make it and probably .5% become actual worldies ala gerrard.  he's not great and that's fine, i'm not being mean about it just saying i don't think he will cut it.

Haven't you more or less posted that you think he was crap and isnt good enough after every game he has played this year?! 

You also moaned about him not winning a header at a corner (which led to a goal) in the Southampton game and blaming him for it but as far as I have seen you havent said anything about Richarlison not leaping as high or turning his back on the ball just behind him nor DCL doing the same against Huddersfield.

 

 

[markjazzbassist]

5 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Haven't you more or less posted that you think he was crap and isnt good enough after every game he has played this year?! 

You also moaned about him not winning a header at a corner (which led to a goal) in the Southampton game and blaming him for it but as far as I have seen you havent said anything about Richarlison not leaping as high or turning his back on the ball just behind him nor DCL doing the same against Huddersfield.

 

 

again i repeat if he wore a different jersey he would be as meaningful to you as jake livermore is to west brom or whomever he plays for.

[nogs]

11 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

What in his game suggests to you that he could be world class? Genuine question by the way because, like I've said, I've watched him closely and I really don't see a thing about him that even hints at him being anything more than an average, run of the mill player. And that's no disgrace to a player but there are plenty, like yourself, that think he's got the potential to be something special, and I am massively intrigued as to why.

I don't think the local lads do get singled out you know. I think the criticism of them just gets people's backs up more than it does when it's a player that's been brought in. Schneiderlin got booed onto the pitch. Bolasie had people celebrating when he was shipped out. Tosun's getting stick already. Gana gets it. Sigurdsson has had people on his back. People just froth at the mouth when a lad like Davies gets pulled up for some pretty poor performances. 

I don't agree with giving any player stick at the game or over social media, it doesn't help. They get my backing 100% where it matters. I save my venting for here.

I probably over egged it saying World Class. I'm not going to argue he's been great in the past 12 months because he hasn't been, but I do think it is far, far to soon to be writing him off. He's played centre mid in the Prem since he was 17, 60 first team appearances and counting. I don't think he gets the credit for just what an achievement that is in itself. You hear talk about kids like Phil Forden at Man City being the next big thing, Davies was a first team regular at his age, he's got a handful of substitute appearances. Apart from the big lads and the absolute worldies, ANY kid his age will find it hard to shine in the Prem because it is fucking hard, physical, fast and technical. All I think is, don't write off a 20 year old with 60 Prem appearances (OK, I know that includes cup games) under his belt. This is the best league in the world, what better apprenticeship could we give a player we could look to build a midfield around in three or four years? 

[Romey 1878]

30 minutes ago, nogs said:

I probably over egged it saying World Class. I'm not going to argue he's been great in the past 12 months because he hasn't been, but I do think it is far, far to soon to be writing him off. He's played centre mid in the Prem since he was 17, 60 first team appearances and counting. I don't think he gets the credit for just what an achievement that is in itself. You hear talk about kids like Phil Forden at Man City being the next big thing, Davies was a first team regular at his age, he's got a handful of substitute appearances. Apart from the big lads and the absolute worldies, ANY kid his age will find it hard to shine in the Prem because it is fucking hard, physical, fast and technical. All I think is, don't write off a 20 year old with 60 Prem appearances (OK, I know that includes cup games) under his belt. This is the best league in the world, what better apprenticeship could we give a player we could look to build a midfield around in three or four years? 

While I don’t rate the lad, never have, I’m certainly not writing him off, it’s just my opinion that right now I don’t see anything about him that we could build a midfield around. I think he’ll be a player in the Cleverley mould (at best), whereby he doesn’t start a lot of games and is just an odd job sort of player. 

Like I say, though, I’m not writing him off. I would love nothing more than for him to become everything you hope he can be, and for me to look back on this thread and chuckle at the things I’ve said about him. I really mean that. 

[EFC-Paul]

48 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

While I don’t rate the lad, never have, I’m certainly not writing him off, it’s just my opinion that right now I don’t see anything about him that we could build a midfield around. I think he’ll be a player in the Cleverley mould (at best), whereby he doesn’t start a lot of games and is just an odd job sort of player. 

Like I say, though, I’m not writing him off. I would love nothing more than for him to become everything you hope he can be, and for me to look back on this thread and chuckle at the things I’ve said about him. I really mean that. 

This pretty much echo's my thoughts on it

Just to add Foden is a fantastic young talent with attributes that Davies doesn't have and is vying for a spot in one of Europe's best midfields totally incomparable bar being young tbh, the lad will be a top top player imo

 

[nogs]

7 hours ago, EFC-Paul said:

This pretty much echo's my thoughts on it

Just to add Foden is a fantastic young talent with attributes that Davies doesn't have and is vying for a spot in one of Europe's best midfields totally incomparable bar being young tbh, the lad will be a top top player imo

 

Don't see how you can say that. At 17 everyone was talking about Davies being a superstar. The hard facts of playing week in, week out in the Prem put a lot of the hype about young players in perspective. And that's all Foden is at moment, hype. 

[pete0]

9 hours ago, EFC-Paul said:

This pretty much echo's my thoughts on it

Just to add Foden is a fantastic young talent with attributes that Davies doesn't have and is vying for a spot in one of Europe's best midfields totally incomparable bar being young tbh, the lad will be a top top player imo

 

Foden only played 45 minutes across 5 games in the league last year. At this stage in his career Dowell is probably a head of him judging by the England youth selection nevermind Davies. 

How many players at Tom's age have played 50 premier league games at CM? 

[EFC-Paul]

2 hours ago, nogs said:

Don't see how you can say that. At 17 everyone was talking about Davies being a superstar. The hard facts of playing week in, week out in the Prem put a lot of the hype about young players in perspective. And that's all Foden is at moment, hype. 

This is were you go off track your shoehorning individual people's thoughts and opinions into a massive bracket 

I personally have never thought or said he'd be a superstar and don't think he ever will be so it's irrelevant to me if others did or have 

Foden is a talent who's just been selected for the senior squad by playing so little first team football, the two are completely different players with different skillsets 

Davies is a steady squad player for me which is no shame I just don't see anything in his game or potential to suggest otherwise

[StevO]

15 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

I’d be ecstatic if he went on to be an average player, Steve. Seriously. It’s a squad game. 

It’s when people talk about him being something special (or capable of it), a £30m player, that I raise an eyebrow. 

Couldn’t agree more Mark. 

He doesn’t need to go on to be the best player in the world, it does my head in that so many expect so much from these kids. We have a huge section of the fan base that seem to think every one of our kids who make the first team can be a world beater. In the end we put so much pressure on them. We did it to Barkley, the kid shows talent so he must win us every game. All Tom needs to do is be a very tidy midfield player, quick in transition and learn from the manager while he is at such a young age. He could go on to be a very steady player for us, he could be the first name on the team sheet. But getting 20 games a season for the next ten years for Everton would also be a very very good career. 

[nogs]

8 hours ago, EFC-Paul said:

This is were you go off track your shoehorning individual people's thoughts and opinions into a massive bracket 

I personally have never thought or said he'd be a superstar and don't think he ever will be so it's irrelevant to me if others did or have 

Foden is a talent who's just been selected for the senior squad by playing so little first team football, the two are completely different players with different skillsets 

Davies is a steady squad player for me which is no shame I just don't see anything in his game or potential to suggest otherwise

OK, but why can't we still just see Davies as a 'fantastic young talent'? That's what I see him as, not at all the finished article (he clearly isn'ttt) but as a very young player still with bags of ability who can still go far in the game. OK you don't see him being anything special, but who are you comparing him to - seasoned Premier League professionals and international midfielders, or other 20 year olds? My thoughts are along the lines of what SteveO has said - Everton fans seem to have this special knack of criticising young players for not being as good as players 5, 10 years older than them. And my biggest gripe with that is, as we saw with Barkley, players are very much aware of it and end up wanting out. 

Davies is where he is now because he was the stand out talent in his age group at the club. He's had an underwhelming year, yes... But he's 20. We won't know what he can become for two, three, four years. Whether that is a midfield general we can build a team around or a steady Eddie squad player, I just think it's far too early to tell and he should be judged as a player learning his trade still. 

[EFC-Paul]

16 minutes ago, nogs said:

OK, but why can't we still just see Davies as a 'fantastic young talent'? That's what I see him as, not at all the finished article (he clearly isn'tttt) but as a very young player still with bags of ability who can still go far in the game. OK you don't see him being anything special, but who are you comparing him to - seasoned Premier League professionals and international midfielders, or other 20 year olds? My thoughts are along the lines of what SteveO has said - Everton fans seem to have this special knack of criticising young players for not being as good as players 5, 10 years older than them. And my biggest gripe with that is, as we saw with Barkley, players are very much aware of it and end up wanting out. 

Davies is where he is now because he was the stand out talent in his age group at the club. He's had an underwhelming year, yes... But he's 20. We won't know what he can become for two, three, four years. Whether that is a midfield general we can build a team around or a steady Eddie squad player, I just think it's far too early to tell and he should be judged as a player learning his trade still. 

Because I don't see him as an outstanding young talent Nogs it's that simple I don't see what area of his game he could refine and hone to become much better, I just see him as I've said previously a potentially steady squad player obviously experience will help him along his way to a degree 

Is it an achievement at his age to have played as many games as he has yes of course it is but he's had many of those games due to circumstances surrounding the squad such as injuries and so on, I'm not discounting those appearances I'm just looking at it from a neutral and honest perspective

I agree on Barkley he got some bad treatment from fans whilst playing largely due to how frustrating he was as he had the raw ability but hardly ever applied it but it didn't justify the abuse he got at times 

The problem is as I've said above you've shoehorned people into a bracket and used past situations with the likes of Barkley that certainly aren't applicable to myself purely on the basis of people not rating a player, I've never hurled abuse at a game and all that bollocks I've purely stated on a forum I don't particularly rate him 

Personally I can't think of any other players that got abuse for being local etc it seems to be a urban myth that's been created imo Barkley got it Lukaku got it Naisse got it as did Martina and many others over the years 

I'll back the lad to the hilt when he's wearing the shirt but I won't be blinded by that in my judgement if he's under par and I'll praise the lad when he does well as with any player