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Tom Davies


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If we can get a reasonable fee for Tom it may be time for him to move on in the summer, and bring in a fresh face instead. He had a great run of 3 or 4 games last year, but just does not seem to have that consistency about his game. He might do better in a team where he is on the team sheet week in week out. I don't think he is going to find that in a team who want to battle for European places.

It's a shame when a youngster doesn't quite make the grade required, as nothing more satisfying than seeing a young local player come through and make it to the very top. 

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I would let Davies got for cheap or nothing. He has cost nothing but wages, and he has been loyal and hard working.

We should either give him an extended first team chance, or let him go for his own sake. Let the lad have chance to make an impression somewhere.

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3 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

He definitely should have shot, but if he'd shot and not scored then he gets stick for that too.

When a goal isn't scored in that situation then I think he's damned either way.

It was obvious Mina was in an offside position and he had a clear sight of goal himself so there should have only been one thing going through his mind  and it was not to pass to Yerry

Maybe it’s a confidence thing but he should definitely have taken the shot on

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Just now, c1982 said:

Another way to look at it is why didn’t Mina run across Lindelof’s path? Would have been a certain pen or opened it up more for Davies.

Also Mina had a clear look across the line. I understand he's not an attacker by nature, but he could've done a better job at staying on

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4 hours ago, c1982 said:

Another way to look at it is why didn’t Mina run across Lindelof’s path? Would have been a certain pen or opened it up more for Davies.

 

4 hours ago, dunlopp9987 said:

Also Mina had a clear look across the line. I understand he's not an attacker by nature, but he could've done a better job at staying on

Just watched it again on MotD and I think the pundits were spot on , Poor decision by Davies who basically bottled it

Tom Davies was clean through with only the keeper to beat and had all the time in the world, it shouldn’t matter what Mina was doing he has to take the shot

If his confidence is low it’s understandable but still a bad decision that has cost us two points 

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4 hours ago, Btay said:

No issue with him passing. I think he showed composure and awareness. Mina more at fault for getting in front of him.

But that’s the thing he showed a complete lack of awareness, otherwise he would have realised that passing the ball forward to a teammate when you’re through one on one with the keeper was an obvious offside 🤷🏻‍♂️

As I say I just think he bottled it and didn’t fancy himself to score, it’s just the sign of a player low on confidence

Do you think if that had fallen to Townsend he would have passed in that situation?

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A player low on confidence believes they will not score, so what do they do, shoot and not score and get slated for missing an easy chance, or put the ball accross the face of goal and create a chance for someone else.

What we need to do is build players confidences so they want to take that shot on.

 

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2 minutes ago, London Blue said:

A player low on confidence believes they will not score, so what do they do, shoot and not score and get slated for missing an easy chance, or put the ball accross the face of goal and create a chance for someone else.

What we need to do is build players confidences so they want to take that shot on.

 

That is very easy to answer, he passed it forward to a player clearly offside so the chance is gone. There is only one thing he should be doing and that is shooting

I agree it’s the managers job, and to a lesser extent the crowds job , to help him get his confidence back and I think the best way to do that is to get him a loan move to a Championship side so he can hit the rest button and play week in week out and get his career back on track because it’s stalling badly at the moment. The only problem with that is we are so low on squad numbers we need all the bodies we can get

  I’ve followed his career quite closely because he caught my eye as a real prospect when playing in an U18’s derby and I still believe there is a good player in there but he is stagnating at the moment, if anything his career is going backwards so I would like to see us get a top midfielder in January and then ship him out on loan

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It was tough because a forward player would have known to stay level. But Davies should have played it more square. Let's just say it was a missed opportunity.

I have also followed Davies's career to and I agree with you to a large extent. Managers have wanted other options in midfield, yet kept Tom around as cover. This has hurt his development as he is denied the first team football he needs.

A loan would be great, although I think he needs a Premier league loan. Would do him the world of good to show what he can do as a regular starter. I agree there is a good player in there.

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Awful decision making in front of goal there. Agree he’s a player lacking confidence but that’s because he’s playing in the wrong league. A career in the championship would be best suited at this present time 

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10 minutes ago, MC11 said:

Awful decision making in front of goal there. Agree he’s a player lacking confidence but that’s because he’s playing in the wrong league. A career in the championship would be best suited at this present time 

How do we know if he is a premier league player unless he plays regularly for a premier league team 🤔 

There has been interest for him from premier league teams.

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On 03/10/2021 at 16:52, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

But that’s the thing he showed a complete lack of awareness, otherwise he would have realised that passing the ball forward to a teammate when you’re through one on one with the keeper was an obvious offside 🤷🏻‍♂️

As I say I just think he bottled it and didn’t fancy himself to score, it’s just the sign of a player low on confidence

Do you think if that had fallen to Townsend he would have passed in that situation?

The best teams score tap in goals all the time like that. Still got no issue with him and his decision to be honest, can fully understand it.

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5 hours ago, Btay said:

The best teams score tap in goals all the time like that. Still got no issue with him and his decision to be honest, can fully understand it.

Whilst the offside rule may well not apply to some of the Sky 6 alas we have to play by the rules, and it was a clear offside as soon as he passed it forward. He may as well have just picked the ball up and handed it to the keeper 

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I definitely think it is a confidence issue. I don't dislike the thought of passing in that situation as such, but it was clear to every man and his dog that Mina was well ahead of the Utd players and Davies had a great angle for the shot.

It's a shame because it would have been great for him to have scored and for us to get the win over United, but it is certainly not something I would lay into him for. I bet he hits it next time.

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As a regularly watcher of the U23 in the years before covid, remember watching Tom and thinking bit of a headless chicken but could be coached into a role, unsure which (still am) and thought that he needed a League 1 loan, now that was around 5 years ago and I fear it's now too late for him, I hope not because as he's a local lad I want him to succeed, I was hoping he could be an Ossie type for us, kind of useful to have around and probably one of the first names on the bench, but as time goes on I don't think he makes the bench so a move maybe best for his career, because I don't think he will be anything more than a squad filler here. I don't think it's Toms fault but moreso over the last 5 years or so the club hasn't done the best for Tom, constant managerial upheavel or for what ever reason he never got the loan that, to me, he so desperately needed.

I hope Rafa can make a player of him as there was a  couple of months under CA where he was probably our best player in the awful dross we were served up in our fall to 10th.

Just bit of context on my view of players around the same time we had Liam Walsh who I enjoyed watching and thought he maybe the next Arteta.

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7 hours ago, Btay said:

The best teams score tap in goals all the time like that. Still got no issue with him and his decision to be honest, can fully understand it.

Was very unfortunate that Mina impeded Lindelöf who was trying to get back to cover, if he hadn't Lindelöf might well have played him on.

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1 hour ago, Bailey said:

I definitely think it is a confidence issue. I don't dislike the thought of passing in that situation as such, but it was clear to every man and his dog that Mina was well ahead of the Utd players and Davies had a great angle for the shot.

It's a shame because it would have been great for him to have scored and for us to get the win over United, but it is certainly not something I would lay into him for. I bet he hits it next time.

That Mina was ahead of the United players is irrelevant. Was he ahead of Davies? That wasn't at all clear in a split-second decision.

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Should have hit it, it was a similar position to Townsend's goal but he bottled it.  I doubt if any other player in the same position would have passed, there wasn't a defender anywhere near him and the simple shot was on.

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1 hour ago, Btay said:

It wasn’t clear because it was close enough to go to VAR for a review so that’s harsh. 

Let’s not kid ourselves here, if Davies shoots and the keeper pulls off a worldie save - everyone would jump down Davies throat about not passing.

Its unlucky and a fine margin. Let’s move on.

It’s absolutely laughable that it went to VAR, did you think even for one split second that the goal would stand?

You are probably right that he would have got stick if he had shot and missed because it was an absolute sitter, and he probably knew that as well which is why he completely bottled it, but at least if he had shot there was a chance of scoring . Passing the ball forward meant that there could only ever be one outcome

It probably didn’t help him that he had all the time in the world to think about what he was going to do because otherwise he probably would have instinctively taken the shot

For me he he bottled it and cost us two points , next game it could be DCL missing a pen or Pickford letting one slip through his legs, shit happens and yeah we move on

Im not trying to use this to get on Davies back , my point is that it screamed of a player very low on confidence and my point is I think he needs to go out on loan to try and get enough regular game time so that he can get his career back on track and rebuild his confidence

 

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55 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

It’s absolutely laughable that it went to VAR, did you think even for one split second that the goal would stand?

You are probably right that he would have got stick if he had shot and missed because it was an absolute sitter, and he probably knew that as well which is why he completely bottled it, but at least if he had shot there was a chance of scoring . Passing the ball forward meant that there could only ever be one outcome

It probably didn’t help him that he had all the time in the world to think about what he was going to do because otherwise he probably would have instinctively taken the shot

For me he he bottled it and cost us two points , next game it could be DCL missing a pen or Pickford letting one slip through his legs, shit happens and yeah we move on

Im not trying to use this to get on Davies back , my point is that it screamed of a player very low on confidence and my point is I think he needs to go out on loan to try and get enough regular game time so that he can get his career back on track and rebuild his confidence

 

No it's not. It was a matter of just an inch or so. Again, the position of United players is irrelevant: Was Mina ahead of Davies? That was not at all obvious. To quote Benitez: "He was unlucky it was just some centimetres offside." It all depended on where Mina was in his stride and how much he was leaning forward.

PS - I found a picture of the pass and added a white line to show just how close this decision actually was.

FgpQlRL.png

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30 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

No it's not. It was a matter of just an inch or so. Again, the position of United players is irrelevant: Was Mina ahead of Davies? That was not at all obvious. To quote Benitez: "He was unlucky it was just some centimetres offside." It all depended on where Mina was in his stride and how much he was leaning forward.

PS - I found a picture of the pass and added a white line to show just how close this decision actually was.

FgpQlRL.png

We will just have to agree to disagree, to me that is very clearly offside and Benitez is hardly going to come out and slaughter him in the press is he?

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1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

We will just have to agree to disagree, to me that is very clearly offside and Benitez is hardly going to come out and slaughter him in the press is he?

You're right: He would not criticize him publicly (unlike some of our former managers). Nonetheless, it was close. In the picture, you can see the linesman was right there, and I don't believe he raised his flag.

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21 minutes ago, Aidan said:

Definitely a confidence issue. Doesn't score enough and that's in his head. He's not very good at finishing, or creating chances. Come to think of it I'm not really sure what he is good at.

Tackling, pressing, passing, and stamina, plus he loves the club.

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13 minutes ago, London Blue said:

Tackling, pressing, passing, and stamina, plus he loves the club.

I don't think he is though.

I think he's good at trying. I don't think any of his individual qualities other than his work rate suffice at this level. Loving the club isn't a free pass to accept lack of quality. I like Davies as a person, but he's not good enough if we want to progress as a club.

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3 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

No it's not. It was a matter of just an inch or so. Again, the position of United players is irrelevant: Was Mina ahead of Davies? That was not at all obvious. To quote Benitez: "He was unlucky it was just some centimetres offside." It all depended on where Mina was in his stride and how much he was leaning forward.

PS - I found a picture of the pass and added a white line to show just how close this decision actually was.

FgpQlRL.png

That picture shows even more that he should have took a shot, the balls under control and there's nobody anywhere near him.  Sorry Tom but you chickened out mate.

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55 minutes ago, Aidan said:

I don't think he is though.

I think he's good at trying. I don't think any of his individual qualities other than his work rate suffice at this level. Loving the club isn't a free pass to accept lack of quality. I like Davies as a person, but he's not good enough if we want to progress as a club.

His passing stats, duels won and interceptions were pretty good last couple of seasons, not as good as Alan or Doucoure, but pretty good. This is a squad game and he is a good squad player. 

Plus at 23 years old he is young enough to be coached and improved by Benitez. 

If we sell him then we have to replace him, Longstaff amy be an option, but we will have to see.

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1 hour ago, Bill said:

That picture shows even more that he should have took a shot, the balls under control and there's nobody anywhere near him.  Sorry Tom but you chickened out mate.

There's an inch or so in it looking at their feet; Tom takes on the shot and it's maybe 50/50 it goes in, if Mina was two inches back it's 95/5 a goal, I'll not be blaming Tom for taking those odds.

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16 minutes ago, MikeO said:

There's an inch or so in it looking at their feet; Tom takes on the shot and it's maybe 50/50 it goes in, if Mina was two inches back it's 95/5 a goal, I'll not be blaming Tom for taking those odds.

This is it.

We have so many chances where we could square it for a easier chance but our players don’t even look.

If Mina isn’t there, Tom takes on the shot no doubt. At least he is having a look around before he makes decisions. 

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I thought it was clear as day offside so didn’t celebrate initially - then thought ‘hang on’ when Yerry did his dance routine but it wasn’t a close decision ultimately. Davies should have… Mina should have… both easy to say sat in front of the tv from the comfort of my sofa. 

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Do I think a player with more confidence in their finishing takes the shot? Yes.

Did Tom bottle it? Yes 

Was it a poor decision?  Not as outrageous as people are making it to be, if they got it right it would be a great goal. Degea was positioned perfectly to be fair to him, Tom had given him the best angle to save with his first touch. 

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I can't believe what I'm seeing and hearing, all agreeing what Tom did !!.  There's not one player on the pitch who wouldn't have taken the shot but they are all wrong because Tom didn't take the shot.

Even all the posters who are siding with Davies would have taken the shot if they they had found themselves in that position. 

I'm with Shukes and c1982 on this, it was so obviously offside as soon as he passed it I stayed rooted in my seat knowing it wasn't going to be given.

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14 hours ago, MikeO said:

There's an inch or so in it looking at their feet; Tom takes on the shot and it's maybe 50/50 it goes in, if Mina was two inches back it's 95/5 a goal, I'll not be blaming Tom for taking those odds.

Sticking with this theme 

IF Tom hits a shot into the top corner it’s 99.5/0.5 it goes in and they are better than your 95/5 odds !

Can we not stick to the facts though, Mina was not 2 inches back ( I think he would still be offside had he been) and was clearly offside which makes the pass a really poor decision

 

 

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25 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

I’ve loved the club a lot longer than Tom and spent a lot more money following them, so can I expect to be in the starting XI against West Ham?

 

If you can play football as well as him, then yes. But you can't.   We can debate his merits as a footballer, but the fact Tom is a fan is a GOOD THING,  not something to be ridiculed.

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57 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

I’ve loved the club a lot longer than Tom and spent a lot more money following them, so can I expect to be in the starting XI against West Ham?

 

If it was the mid 70s and you were the real Duncan then you would definitely start, unfortunately it’s not the 70s and you’re not the real Duncan Mckenzie so don’t pack your boots and pads but keep supporting and spending your money 😉

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1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

I’m trying ( and failing ) to get my head around why anyone would defend his decision to pass the ball in that scenario

For those that are , given all the time and space he had and given he was looking right across the line, do you think he should have been able to recognise the fact that Mina was offside?

 

If you think your not going to score then you probably won't. I don't think Tom thought he would score, so he passed instead. In my mind that's good decision making. It didn't come off but he thought about his options as opposed to putting into row z.

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1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

I’m trying ( and failing ) to get my head around why anyone would defend his decision to pass the ball in that scenario

For those that are , given all the time and space he had and given he was looking right across the line, do you think he should have been able to recognise the fact that Mina was offside?

 

I screamed SHOOT after his first touch and didn't celebrate as instantly thought offside. Not defending Tom but if that was me when I was playing I would have put if across 6 yard box hoping for far corner, but that's because I'm left footed and from my perspective better to simply square it, than lash at it with my very weak right and 50/50 if I even connect, I know Tom's right footed but his game is not about scoring and after QPR he's bound to be at the very least perplexed, not playing with a clear head so he played the "safe" option, if Yerry was a size 7 boot instead of 17 would have been the right decision, think someone said above he was damned whatever he did unless he scored.

I think if his mind is clear and relaxed he has the shot across keeper but even then if Yerry taps in after keeper saves still offside. I would rather he had just swung at it and hoped for the best, would have won a lot of peoples praise, but in that moment he may have thought I'm gonna get slaughtered if I miss, simple square pass easy goal, is Yerry onside? it's tight! too late! I've passed.

I think from Toms view he doesn't know if Yerrys on or off when he plays it.

So he made the wrong decision, (as I do probably daily), just like all the other 21 players did at some point in the match, it's just because this decision possibly cost us 2 points that it matters, so my sympathy for Tom is not because of the decision, but how the decision effects him going forward, am fairly sure Rafa would have said something along the lines of next time you'll just shoot don't worry if you miss.

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12 hours ago, Shukes said:

Did anyone actually think k it was a goal at first glance? I stayed sat down and said it’s offside. It seemed clear to as day to me.

Edged up as Davies got the ball in expectation, then as he passed it I groaned and said offside…. Before the ball even reached Mina.

I'm guessing because you were looking at the United players. If Mina was three inches further back, you'd have still thought at first blush he was offside, but he wouldn't have been.

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11 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

I'm guessing because you were looking at the United players. If Mina was three inches further back, you'd have still thought at first blush he was offside, but he wouldn't have been.

No I was watching Tom mate. 
The moment he passed I could already see Mina was in front of him.

Tomes view would have been in front of him…. And he would have saw Mina’s shirt colour…. And no red in front of him.

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12 hours ago, London Blue said:

If you think your not going to score then you probably won't. I don't think Tom thought he would score, so he passed instead. In my mind that's good decision making. It didn't come off but he thought about his options as opposed to putting into row z.

I think exactly the same as your first part LB. and that’s why people are saying he isn’t  good enough for this level.

To be a premier league football you need to believe in yourself and believe in your ability.

If Tom doesn’t believe he had a great chance of scoring there, then that’s surely an issue?

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