Jonjoe Kenny

[Palfy]

29 minutes ago, pete0 said:

I'd forgotten his part in it. Had Gana done his job and got into position rather than be sucked to the ball he'd have stopped that or at least made a hell of a lot more difficult. 

This is a perfect example of what I mean by not tackling and being in position is more important than being the yappy dog tackle stat King. If Gana positions himself he blocks the goal off, instead he rushes in and tries to tackle Salah and it cost us. 

Yeah that's the one embarrassing.

[Shukes]

Wow!

Just ....

???? 

Haha just not sure!!!

[Btay]

6 hours ago, Palfy said:

Yeah that's the one embarrassing.

There’s lots of mistakes that lead to a world class players getting a small opening and taking it.

 

starters - Martina tries to win a ball and allows to get goal side.

Gueye - rushes over to become a second man double up on salah but because he gets away from Martina he can’t make a challenge other wise pen.

Williams - doesn’t react at all. Let’s him pick his place.

[Matt]

3 hours ago, Btay said:

There’s lots of mistakes that lead to a world class players getting a small opening and taking it.

 

starters - Martina tries to win a ball and allows to get goal side.

Gueye - rushes over to become a second man double up on salah but because he gets away from Martina he can’t make a challenge other wise pen.

Williams - doesn’t react at all. Let’s him pick his place.

End piece - Salah has been making fun out of the worlds best players and teams all season. He forces mistakes because of his skill set. If you back off from him, you give him space to move. You close in, he’ll turn you inside out.

[Palfy]

3 hours ago, Btay said:

There’s lots of mistakes that lead to a world class players getting a small opening and taking it.

 

starters - Martina tries to win a ball and allows to get goal side.

Gueye - rushes over to become a second man double up on salah but because he gets away from Martina he can’t make a challenge other wise pen.

Williams - doesn’t react at all. Let’s him pick his place.

The defence were in a good line very well positioned, Gana initially is watching Martina and Salah but doesn't react to the danger until it's too late then rushes towards Salah gets on the wrong side and achieves nothing.

What he should have done in the time he was watching it unfold was rush into the area to cover the space behind Martina and the goal in anticipation that Salah might get through Martina.

For me Gana initially for the first split second was caught ball watching you can see he's hardly jogging until it's too late, there is absolutely know doubt in my mind that Gana should had rushed into the area to cover the space in case Martina was beaten, basic football which I some years ago use to teach at Swindon Towns football academy, my motto to the youngsters was be proactive in your decisions and not just reactivate in other words anticipate which Gana clearly never.

Now I know all the Ganaretts will come jumping to his defence because it's one of the Ps criticising their idol but in all seriousness if you can't see that you are as guilty of being as blind as he was on that occasion.

And to the mods apologies for being involved in turning the Kenny thread into the Gana thread, please feel free to move to Gana thread or room 101.

[Shukes]

Guys please don’t feed them. I was just beginning to think these guys had some idea about football due to their comments not regarding Gana. It was actually getting interesting.

Now it’s all gone pear shaped again, and I feel I’m in the twilight zone talking to two guys trying to ruin the Ps characters. 

Its like a terminator has came back in time to ruin them!

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

Guys please don’t feed them. I was just beginning to think these guys had some idea about football due to their comments not regarding Gana. It was actually getting interesting.

Now it’s all gone pear shaped again, and I feel I’m in the twilight zone talking to two guys trying to ruin the Ps characters. 

Its like a terminator has came back in time to ruin them!

But my point on that particular incident is a good point is it not, regardless of who the players involved are. 

Just so happens one of them is your dirty secret I’ll be back 🏍

[nogs]

I personally wonder why Pete and Palfy aren't coaching at the top level, their insight into how to defend against World class forwards is breathtaking. 

[pete0]

I don't see how anyone can watch that then defend Gana and blame the others. Martina gets beat but does enough to slow him down that the gap should have been plugged, Williams also does his job and forces Salah to go for the far post.

There's only one man at fault and that's Gana. He's not marking anyone so he should be marking the space. If that was Pogba the pundits would be tearing the back out of him. It's lazy and it's school boy, I did go to write amateur but even at that level you'd expect the midfielder to drop back into the space. Worst thing is its not a brainfart, he plays like this every week. We don't give away more chances than other teams, but the ones we do are much more clear cut as Gana has left a nice big space to exploit. 

[StevO]

3 hours ago, Matt said:

End piece - Salah has been making fun out of the worlds best players and teams all season. He forces mistakes because of his skill set. If you back off from him, you give him space to move. You close in, he’ll turn you inside out.

Exactly this, doesn’t have to be an error for a goal. Sometimes the other player is just better. 

[pete0]

7 hours ago, Btay said:

Gueye - rushes over to become a second man double up on salah but because he gets away from Martina he can’t make a challenge other wise pen.

He never rushed over. He was being idle and should have plugged the gap. He only reacts once Martina and Salah battle for the ball.

He can't make a challenge as he was in the wrong position. Nothing to do with Martina losing Salah. Had Gana dropped back, as the majority of midfielders would have, that goal is stopped or at least a damn lot harder. Gana made it easy. 

 

[StevO]

2 hours ago, pete0 said:

He never rushed over. He was being idle and should have plugged the gap. He only reacts once Martina and Salah battle for the ball.

He can't make a challenge as he was in the wrong position. Nothing to do with Martina losing Salah. Had Gana dropped back, as the majority of midfielders would have, that goal is stopped or at least a damn lot harder. Gana made it easy. 

 

[Sibdane]

4 hours ago, pete0 said:

He never rushed over. He was being idle and should have plugged the gap. He only reacts once Martina and Salah battle for the ball.

He can't make a challenge as he was in the wrong position. Nothing to do with Martina losing Salah. Had Gana dropped back, as the majority of midfielders would have, that goal is stopped or at least a damn lot harder. Gana made it easy. 

 

If Martina and Gana's positions were switched you'd still put all the blame on Gana.

[pete0]

1 hour ago, sibdane said:

If Martina and Gana's positions were switched you'd still put all the blame on Gana.

He's lost out on a tackle. Not much else Martina could have done, the ball just fell in Salah's favour. The reason I point out Gana is because he does it every week. 

I've moaned about other players, especially Keane in his first season. One that sticks this year is Coleman going out of position for a header too. If you're at fault, you're at fault. Just happens more often than not its one certain player. 

[nogs]

6 hours ago, pete0 said:

I don't see how anyone can watch that then defend Gana and blame the others. Martina gets beat but does enough to slow him down that the gap should have been plugged, Williams also does his job and forces Salah to go for the far post.

There's only one man at fault and that's Gana. He's not marking anyone so he should be marking the space. If that was Pogba the pundits would be tearing the back out of him. It's lazy and it's school boy, I did go to write amateur but even at that level you'd expect the midfielder to drop back into the space. Worst thing is its not a brainfart, he plays like this every week. We don't give away more chances than other teams, but the ones we do are much more clear cut as Gana has left a nice big space to exploit. 

Pure nonsense. You don't run in behind your full back expecting him to be sat on his arse. If Gana had rushed over, he'd have left a huge gaping hole for a Liverpool player to run into, for Salah to slip in and get a free shot at goal. Which you'd have then blamed Gana for. So he is doing exactly what your criticising him for - marking the space on the edge of the box.

If Gana does anything wrong, he doesn't fly into the tackle to try to prevent a goal, I assume because he doesn't want to give a penalty - pointless, because Salah scores anyway. But to blame him because Martina gets dumped on his backside is laughable. 

Now back to the thread topic, please. 

[plaidharper]

On 10/06/2019 at 11:13, Sir McGiven said:

Perfect tweet that

How was this not talked about more in the Kenny thread than Gana?

No love for South Park on this forum?

[pete0]

1 hour ago, nogs said:

Pure nonsense. You don't run in behind your full back expecting him to be sat on his arse. If Gana had rushed over, he'd have left a huge gaping hole for a Liverpool player to run into, for Salah to slip in and get a free shot at goal. Which you'd have then blamed Gana for. So he is doing exactly what your criticising him for - marking the space on the edge of the box.

If Gana does anything wrong, he doesn't fly into the tackle to try to prevent a goal, I assume because he doesn't want to give a penalty - pointless, because Salah scores anyway. But to blame him because Martina gets dumped on his backside is laughable. 

Now back to the thread topic, please. 

That sounds more like it should be aimed at StevO, he's the one who said Gana is pressing. Whereas I'm not saying he should press, I'm saying he should have dropped back into the hole. Gana is marking no one and is standing outside the box when he should have been in it blocking the space. If he'd done that he'd not be rushing at Salah from the wrong side of him. Many a time me and Palf have mentioned him being on the wrong side and it's due to poor positioning. Stay goal side and make it hard, it's the basics.

Being on the "goal side" of the ball or another player usually means that you put yourself between that object and your own goal. ... This is a common defensive position as it keeps the ball or player from moving towards the goal you are defending without you being there to stop it.

As for flying in. Good players only do that as a last resort. Had Gana been where he was supposed to be he wouldn't have to break a sweat as he'd already be set to block him off. 

[Palfy]

8 hours ago, StevO said:

Exactly this, doesn’t have to be an error for a goal. Sometimes the other player is just better. 

That’s right, but if you go back to that game Martina gets a right slating for that goal, players get beat players make mistakes.

Theres no doubt Salah is a world class player and has done that to better teams and players than us, my initial post was to point out that more players other than Martina played a part in that goal being conceded, but that doesn’t sit well with the Ganaretts because in their eyes he can do no wrong

[Matt]

18 minutes ago, Palfy said:

That’s right, but if you go back to that game Martina gets a right slating for that goal, players get beat players make mistakes.

Theres no doubt Salah is a world class player and has done that to better teams and players than us, my initial post was to point out that more players other than Martina played a part in that goal being conceded, but that doesn’t sit well with the Ganaretts because in their eyes he can do no wrong

Not even close. The Ganaretts recognise he can make mistakes but that his overall contribution is vastly superior, and that world class players in peak form can outwit him along with anyone else. The Ganatards on the other hand seem to think he’s responsible for scurvy in centuries past. 

[Palfy]

Back on thread imo Martina would be more than capable of acting as cover for Coleman, so I’m not overly concerned that Kenny is going out on loan can only do him good. 

[pete0]

27 minutes ago, Matt said:

Not even close. The Ganaretts recognise he can make mistakes but that his overall contribution is vastly superior, and that world class players in peak form can outwit him along with anyone else. The Ganatards on the other hand seem to think he’s responsible for scurvy in centuries past. 

He wasn't outwitted, he was out of position. Just as he was when Coutinho scored thanks to Gana. Just because the goal scorer has quality doesn't automatically mean you let a player off for not doing their own job. Salah didn't beat Gana thanks to his own ability, he beat him because he wasn't standing in the right place. 

[Matt]

16 minutes ago, pete0 said:

He wasn't outwitted, he was out of position. Just as he was when Coutinho scored thanks to Gana. Just because the goal scorer has quality doesn't automatically mean you let a player off for not doing their own job. Salah didn't beat Gana thanks to his own ability, he beat him because he wasn't standing in the right place. 

Blind. Sheer blind hatred. 

[pete0]

42 minutes ago, Matt said:

Blind. Sheer blind hatred. 

I don't hate him, he doesn't pick himself to play, I just resign to the fact we will give away clear chances too easily when he's plays. 

Fulham game being the one that stands out, they had three chances because of Gana, just because they never had Salah or whoever to put them away doesn't mean he's doing a good enough job. 

Gana offers nothing going forward, if anything is a hindrance stifling the play slowing it down. Off the ball defensively he's a liability. Often caught wrong side of his man or just out of position in general. His tackles lack conviction, his tracking back is lazy, and often even though he wins the ball he doesn't win possession. It's usually safer and smarter to hold position. 

[MikeO]

16 minutes ago, pete0 said:

I don't hate him, he doesn't pick himself to play, I just resign to the fact we will give away clear chances too easily when he's plays. 

Fulham game being the one that stands out, they had three chances because of Gana, just because they never had Salah or whoever to put them away doesn't mean he's doing a good enough job. 

Gana offers nothing going forward, if anything is a hindrance stifling the play slowing it down. Off the ball defensively he's a liability. Often caught wrong side of his man or just out of position in general. His tackles lack conviction, his tracking back is lazy, and often even though he wins the ball he doesn't win possession. It's usually safer and smarter to hold position. 

Jonjoe Kenny thread this everyone (not pointing the finger at you Pete). Keep it tidy lads.

[StevO]

3 hours ago, Palfy said:

That’s right, but if you go back to that game Martina gets a right slating for that goal, players get beat players make mistakes.

Theres no doubt Salah is a world class player and has done that to better teams and players than us, my initial post was to point out that more players other than Martina played a part in that goal being conceded, but that doesn’t sit well with the Ganaretts because in their eyes he can do no wrong

You won’t have found me getting on Martina’s case for the goal, I just think it was a great piece of play by Salah. Much better players than Martina have been made to look much worse by Salah. He’s an exceptional player.

If you ask my mate who I go the match with, I’m fully aware of Gana’s flaws. 

If he lines up to shoot I’m shouting don’t, if the ball drops to him at the edge of the box from a corner I’m screaming to pass it back out wide as he can’t pick a threaded pass. 

But if I want someone to press the opposition, make a tackle and give the ball to someone else; Gana is the one for me

 

That Kenny though, shit in midfield. 

[Shukes]

14 hours ago, nogs said:

Pure nonsense. You don't run in behind your full back expecting him to be sat on his arse. If Gana had rushed over, he'd have left a huge gaping hole for a Liverpool player to run into, for Salah to slip in and get a free shot at goal. Which you'd have then blamed Gana for. So he is doing exactly what your criticising him for - marking the space on the edge of the box.

If Gana does anything wrong, he doesn't fly into the tackle to try to prevent a goal, I assume because he doesn't want to give a penalty - pointless, because Salah scores anyway. But to blame him because Martina gets dumped on his backside is laughable. 

Now back to the thread topic, please. 

Your talking football now though, that’s not what this thread is about. 

Palfy and PeteO would teach kids to rush in and double up in the penalty area and leave a space behind. Whereas a football coach would teach kids to take up the space between, and force the player towards the line to make a more acutely angle.... again, Palfy and PeteO would be telling them to show the player the inside and give them a larger target to aim at.

To them it makes sense.

To the rest of the known universe, it doesn’t.

[Matt]

10 hours ago, pete0 said:

I don't hate him, he doesn't pick himself to play, I just resign to the fact we will give away clear chances too easily when he's plays. 

Fulham game being the one that stands out, they had three chances because of Gana, just because they never had Salah or whoever to put them away doesn't mean he's doing a good enough job. 

Gana offers nothing going forward, if anything is a hindrance stifling the play slowing it down. Off the ball defensively he's a liability. Often caught wrong side of his man or just out of position in general. His tackles lack conviction, his tracking back is lazy, and often even though he wins the ball he doesn't win possession. It's usually safer and smarter to hold position. 

Then it’s total wilful ignorance

[Palfy]

10 hours ago, Shukes said:

Your talking football now though, that’s not what this thread is about. 

Palfy and PeteO would teach kids to rush in and double up in the penalty area and leave a space behind. Whereas a football coach would teach kids to take up the space between, and force the player towards the line to make a more acutely angle.... again, Palfy and PeteO would be telling them to show the player the inside and give them a larger target to aim at.

To them it makes sense.

To the rest of the known universe, it doesn’t.

But that’s what happened you nutter he rushed in towards the ball got wrong side and was brushed off. 

He should have been going in and closing down the space behind Martina in anticipation he could get beat and then he could face him up and stop the shot. 

Simples my furry friend.  

[Shukes]

Once Martina was down he had to close in. would have been the same result if he held off. He didn’t do himself any favours, but again, it’s dumbfounding how he is to blame for it as well. 

Going in would have a left a large open space behind them both. His manager would have gone nuts at him if he did that. Haha even Sam can coach better than that.

[Vranny]

Tbh I do think Gana holds some blame for that goal. I don’t think there’s too much wrong with his anticipation, but I don’t think he reacts well to the situation once Martina falls over.

Rather than naively trying to win the ball from the side, I think he should be concentrating on just getting his body between Salah and the goal. I think he lets him slip past too easily by trying to tackle him from the side for sure. 

Also I don’t know how we’ve let another topic turn into a Gana debate