holystove Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 tongue in cheek i'm guessing. but wouldn't the Scots gain from leaving the UK? they are the industrial powerhouse and England needs them, do they really need england? serious question here as i'm not that familiar. I think right now they depend on "English" money to save their budget.. they can't really afford to break up the UK. EU money would only marginally help them as it won't be as much as they get from the UK right now. Also it would be a huge gamble if they can join the EU because every current member has a veto on new members.. what if a crazy eastern EU country blocks Scotland? .. their only hope is if they can quit the UK before brexit and retain the UK EU-membership, which would also be a huge gamble. Romey is right, they would be under an obligation to adopt the EURO (as is the obligation of every new member after 2002). Might not be the best time to change currency when your old currency has just dropped 20% in worth.. maybe first hope for some recovery of the pound? (unless Sturgeon is convinced the £ will become increasingly worthless). To conclude, they won't do it . markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 I think right now they depend on "English" money to save their budget.. they can't really afford to break up the UK. EU money would only marginally help them as it won't be as much as they get from the UK right now. Also it would be a huge gamble if they can join the EU because every current member has a veto on new members.. what if a crazy eastern EU country blocks Scotland? .. their only hope is if they can quit the UK before brexit and retain the UK EU-membership, which would also be a huge gamble. Romey is right, they would be under an obligation to adopt the EURO (as is the obligation of every new member after 2002). Might not be the best time to change currency when your old currency has just dropped 20% in worth.. maybe first hope for some recovery of the pound? (unless Sturgeon is convinced the £ will become increasingly worthless). To conclude, they won't do it . thanks for the analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 tongue in cheek i'm guessing. but wouldn't the Scots gain from leaving the UK? they are the industrial powerhouse and England needs them, do they really need england? serious question here as i'm not that familiar. They're not the "industrial powerhouse" of the UK, in fact we have no industry to speak of anymore. They do have the North Sea Oil/Gas which would be a big hole out of the UK economy but I'm not sure it'd be enough for them to be better off on their own, I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 I would be very surprised if Scotland voted to leave the UK in a second referendum. They are a canny lot the Scots and know that, currently, they are net 'receivers' of aid in the British economy. Prior to the last referendum on this issue, the SNP made noises about how North Sea Oil revenues would boost their independent economy. Since then Oil revenues everywhere have gone through the floor. There is no way that Scotland could make a go of it alone. Mark refers to them as the 'industrial powerhouse', I think he is 50 years behind the times. The other issue is that Scotland would have to apply for EU membership and even accepting that no other country blackballs them, it is going to take at least 2 years. They will also have to adopt the euro, which is probably the most high-risk currency at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 If the rest of the UK were offered a chance to vote on Scottish independance, I wonder what the outcome would be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 If the rest of the UK were offered a chance to vote on Scottish independance, I wonder what the outcome would be? Why would they be? Should the whole of the EU have had a vote on Brexit (though I'm sure if they'd have had one we'd have had a much more clear cut message, they'd have binned us without a doubt)? rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Wouldnt such a thing result in richer regions voting out the poorer ones? Should the London area get a vote to throw out northren England? .. slippery slope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formby Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 The fact that both countries were EU members undoubtedly helped solve the problem. I'd argue that was irrelevant. The single biggest influence was 9/11. America finally woke up to terrorism and the money to the IRA dried up. All parties then had to negotiate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 tongue in cheek i'm guessing. but wouldn't the Scots gain from leaving the UK? they are the industrial powerhouse and England needs them, do they really need england? serious question here as i'm not that familiar.No they are a financial burden on the rest of the UK, last year we had to bail them out to the tune of 15Billion.I really hope they get their wish and win independence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 They're not the "industrial powerhouse" of the UK, in fact we have no industry to speak of anymore. They do have the North Sea Oil/Gas which would be a big hole out of the UK economy but I'm not sure it'd be enough for them to be better off on their own, I doubt it. Including all the revenue from oil they still spent 15Billion more than they generated, which came from our taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 Including all the revenue from oil they still spent 15Billion more than they generated, which came from our taxes. And theirs to be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 I'd argue that was irrelevant. The single biggest influence was 9/11. America finally woke up to terrorism and the money to the IRA dried up. All parties then had to negotiate. Good Friday agreement happened three years before 9/11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rusty747 Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 Good Friday agreement happened three years before 9/11. It did, but peace had already broken out around 1995. I lived and worked in N Ireland for 6 months in 1995 and it was a fantastic experience. Downtown Belfast on a Saturday night took some beating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 They're not the "industrial powerhouse" of the UK, in fact we have no industry to speak of anymore. They do have the North Sea Oil/Gas which would be a big hole out of the UK economy but I'm not sure it'd be enough for them to be better off on their own, I doubt it. If I remember rightly I don't think they have the full rights to the oil either so it's likely to be split in some capacity, and not to mention it's worth will decrease with time as everyone bar Donald Trump tries to move away from Fossil fuels. The funniest think about Sturgeon 's conference yesterday is that she didn't commit to wanting to be a part of the EU. She is just using Brexit as a bargaining tool as she knows that will win independence votes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 She is just using Brexit as a bargaining tool as she knows that will win independence votes. I was thinking she is using threat of "independence" as a bargaining tool to get a soft(-er) brexit. . Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 hypothetical. scotland wins independece. scotland votes to join the EU. do you think any brits would move up there? probably not many i'm guessing, just like not many have left the US once trump took over (me included) They would need to apply for long-term residency visas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 I was thinking she is using threat of "independence" as a bargaining tool to get a soft(-er) brexit. . All she has ever banged on about is Scottish Independence. She will use what she can to get out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 All she has ever banged on about is Scottish Independence. She will use what she can to get out. The clue's in the name of the party she leads . But in fact they actually bang on about a lot more than just that. https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/thesnp/pages/5540/attachments/original/1485880018/SNP_Manifesto2016-web_(1).pdf?1485880018 I like her a lot, conviction politician whose parents were an electrician and a dental nurse; bit different from your average career politico down here, no Eton or pig head shagging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formby Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 Good Friday agreement happened three years before 9/11. Indeed, and terrorism continued thereafter from groups affiliated to the RIRA / IRA. After 9/11, the money from America which had sustained the IRA dried up. There was no way back after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 The clue's in the name of the party she leads . But in fact they actually bang on about a lot more than just that. https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/thesnp/pages/5540/attachments/original/1485880018/SNP_Manifesto2016-web_(1).pdf?1485880018 I like her a lot, conviction politician whose parents were an electrician and a dental nurse; bit different from your average career politico down here, no Eton or pig head shagging. I don't like her but she's one of 2 politicians I actually respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 I don't like her but she's one of 2 politicians I actually respect. Who's the other one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 I blame porn for all this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 Who's the other one? mharia black Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 mharia black I don't like her but she's one of 2 politicians I actually respect. Caroline Lucas? No? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 With apparently no sense of irony, Theresa May has said that a second Scottish independence referendum would be divisive and cause huge economic uncertainty, before returning to work on legislation to follow through on her own partys divisive referendum that is causing huge economic uncertainty. http://newsthump.com/2017/03/14/divisive-referendum-will-cause-huge-economic-uncertainty-says-woman-enacting-divisive-referendum-causing-huge-economic-uncertainty/ MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 The clue's in the name of the party she leads . But in fact they actually bang on about a lot more than just that. https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/thesnp/pages/5540/attachments/original/1485880018/SNP_Manifesto2016-web_(1).pdf?1485880018 I like her a lot, conviction politician whose parents were an electrician and a dental nurse; bit different from your average career politico down here, no Eton or pig head shagging. It's the Scottish National Party not Independent. It's what's best for Scotland and not Independence at all costs. Every time I see them on TV every point they make goes back to Independence. They aren't even managing what they can very well. Their record in schools is pretty terrible for example. I do wish more politicians had her type of background but I don't agree with what she believes in, although I can't find many that I do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 Caroline Lucas? No?dont recognise the name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 It's the Scottish National Party not Independent. It's what's best for Scotland and not Independence at all costs. It's a pretty fundamental tenet of their existence though. rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 dont recognise the name http://lmgtfy.com/?q=caroline+lucas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-39269305 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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