holystove Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 I think Cultural differences should be celebrated and not watered down. Countries can still work with each other is so many different ways without diluting what makes their people different and for me that is where EU integration should begin and end. I fully agree with you there. Would add that cultural differences don't necessarily relate to countries, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted March 19, 2017 Report Share Posted March 19, 2017 The biggest swing is from PvdA (Labour) to Green Party and Lim Dem. All the other parties more or less got the same result.. which Wilders admits, is a poor showing from him. Results show that "nexit" was only an issue in British (and us) media.. People who voted Wilders did so primarily from an anti-immigrant point of view and on the other side, a swing from Dutch Labour to Lim Dem and Green Party doesn't mean Holland is all of a sudden extremely pro-EU-federalism. Relevance for Brexit: likely coalition will be PVV (right centre liberals), CDH (christian centre), D66 (left centre liberals) and GL (left environmentalists) .. If the Tory-right reads the campaign promises of especially those last two, they will not be particularly impressed. I was hoping for a good result for D66 and Im happy by the outcome. Liberalism is going to be the solution to this alt right wing wave. holystove 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39325561 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 I was hoping for a good result for D66 and Im happy by the outcome. Liberalism is going to be the solution to this alt right wing wave. I agree, the D66 result was very encouraging. Looking at the results a little closer, the right-wing nationalists got 14% (which resulted in 4 seats less in parliament compared to 2010), but the parties who openly campaigned for more international cooperation got over 20% (which resulted in an increase of 17 seats). Joris Luyendijk wrote a short piece about this in The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/20/brexit-press-dutch-elections-geert-wilders?CMP=share_btn_tw). MikeO and Peter H 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 (edited) Who is Chris Deerin? Edited March 23, 2017 by johnh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 Who is Chris Deerin? http://www.bsg.ox.ac.uk/people/chris-deerin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 (edited) Apparently he's nostradamus. I just like the quote and used it as a signature, rather than post it in this thread as it is opinion and noone is going to change those any time soon. But now that you mention it, tt's a quote from this article : https://capx.co/brexit-lunatics-will-destroy-britain/ if you disregard the title, he actually made a very good point about why leave would win. Edited March 23, 2017 by holystove Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 The resignation of the PM was a plus, not a problem as inferred in the quote. Cameron was the worst Tory Prime Minister since........er, the previous one, John Major. Even I forecast a win for 'leave' and that Cameron would have to resign. His Nostradamus act will fail on the 'departure of Scotland'. I know a lot of Scots (including a son-in-law) and almost without exception they consider that Sturgeon and Salmond are obsessed with independence to the exclusion of almost everything else, which is why the Scottish economy and public services are performing so badly, (in spite of the fact that the Scots get more subsidy per head than the rest of the UK). The Scots are a canny lot and there is no way that they will vote for independence - they wouldn't even have a currency. Nicola Sturgeon is a formidable politician but she is becoming a caricature of herself. Her obsession with independence will turn-off a lot of voters. If there is another referendum on independence it won't be because of Brexit. Brexit is just the latest excuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 https://www.facebook.com/EPPGroup/videos/10154532798547689/ holystove 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Europe is not a common market. That's odd, that's what I voted to join back in the 1970's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 https://www.facebook.com/EPPGroup/videos/10154532798547689/ great speech. he expressed my sentiments exactly. don't even know who that guy is, but the EU can definitely use his inspiration. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Europe is not a common market. That's odd, that's what I voted to join back in the 1970's. There's a certain irony there mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Interesting this Churchill speech... http://www.churchill-society-london.org.uk/astonish.html "...all the while there is a remedy which, if it were generally and spontaneously adopted, would as if by a miracle transform the whole scene, and would in a few years make all Europe, or the greater part of it, as free and as happy as Switzerland is today. What is this sovereign remedy? It is to re-create the European Family, or as much of it as we can, and provide it with a structure under which it can dwell in peace, in safety and in freedom. We must build a kind of United States of Europe." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Churchill also said, 'If we must choose between Europe and the open sea, we must always choose the open sea'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Churchill also said, 'If we must choose between Europe and the open sea, we must always choose the open sea'. Except he didn't really (apart from in an angry brief row with Charles de Gaulle, they kissed and made up the same day) . https://neweuropeans.net/article/604/revealing-deception-about-winston-churchill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 As Prime Minister, in 1953, he was explicit that Britain should not be part of the arrangement. He told the House of Commons: 'Where do we stand? We are not members of the European Defence Community, nor do we intend to be merged in a Federal European system. We feel we have a special relation to both. This can be expressed by prepositions, by the preposition 'with' but not 'of' - we are with them but not of them. We have our own Commonwealth and Empire. Not sure if he kissed anyone at the time, but the meaning seems pretty clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 As Prime Minister, in 1953, he was explicit that Britain should not be part of the arrangement. He told the House of Commons: 'Where do we stand? We are not members of the European Defence Community, nor do we intend to be merged in a Federal European system. We feel we have a special relation to both. This can be expressed by prepositions, by the preposition 'with' but not 'of' - we are with them but not of them. We have our own Commonwealth and Empire. Not sure if he kissed anyone at the time, but the meaning seems pretty clear. Seems he was an indecisive sod who changed his mind even more often than Theresa May . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 As Prime Minister, in 1953, he was explicit that Britain should not be part of the arrangement. He told the House of Commons: 'Where do we stand? We are not members of the European Defence Community, nor do we intend to be merged in a Federal European system. We feel we have a special relation to both. This can be expressed by prepositions, by the preposition 'with' but not 'of' - we are with them but not of them. We have our own Commonwealth and Empire. Not sure if he kissed anyone at the time, but the meaning seems pretty clear. By 1957... Churchill made his last speech about Europe at London’s Central Hall, Westminster in July 1957; some four months after six founding nations established the European Economic Community by signing The Treaty of Rome (France, Italy, West Germany, Belgium, The Netherlands and Luxembourg). Churchill welcomed the formation of a ‘common market’ by the six, provided that ‘the whole of free Europe will have access’. Churchill added, “we genuinely wish to join”. Matt and rubecula 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 European Economic Community is fine United States of Europe is, in the present climate, not so fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Artikel 50 triggered ... 2 year countdown to liberation, freedom and sovereignty starts today MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Very sad day, complete step backwards. Churchill would be turning in his grave. United we stand, divided we fall... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 By 1957... Churchill made his last speech about Europe at London’s Central Hall, Westminster in July 1957; some four months after six founding nations established the European Economic Community by signing The Treaty of Rome (France, Italy, West Germany, Belgium, The Netherlands and Luxembourg). Churchill welcomed the formation of a ‘common market’ by the six, provided that ‘the whole of free Europe will have access’. Churchill added, “we genuinely wish to join”. Like me when I voted, Churchill was talking about a 'common market' not a Federal Europe. Regarding Article 50: :jump for joy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) Seems some in the EU haven't lost their sense of humour over this. First there was Juncker with his: BBC: On Saturday there will be a celebration. The leaders of 27 member states will be there. Juncker: Unfortunately yes, not 28 but only 27. BBC: That surely is going to be the elephant in the room though isnt it? The fact that Theresa May is not there on Saturday? Juncker: Shes not an elephant. Today, Tusk enters the race: After nine months the UK has delivered. #brexit (The Juncker one actually made me laugh.) Edited March 29, 2017 by holystove MikeO, Louis, Matt and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Who was it that said something along the lines of "look who's celebrating with you"? Comment underneath an article on the BBC.. "Arise Sir Nigel Farage" currently has 383 likes v 283 negs. I'm ashamed of my nationality. EFC-Paul and holystove 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 We are still Europeans for gawds sake, the only change will be having the chance to hold lawmakers accountable. Britain will not float off into outerspace because we voted to not be a political pawn for unelected and unremovable people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 We are still Europeans for gawds sake, the only change will be having the chance to hold lawmakers accountable. Britain will not float off into outerspace because we voted to not be a political pawn for unelected and unremovable people. You're not mainlanders. You're islanders. And now you'll be called as such. You islander you. Now get in line. Lowensda and rubecula 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 Damn it we are on a piece of land surrounded by sea after all........... hang on a second All land is surrounded by sea .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 We are still Europeans for gawds sake, the only change will be having the chance to hold lawmakers accountable. Britain will not float off into outerspace because we voted to not be a political pawn for unelected and unremovable people. So you believe people who are pro-EU are all people who prefer to be political pawns for unelected and unremovable people, and who don't want the ability to hold lawmakers accountable? rubecula and MikeO 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 Damn it we are on a piece of land surrounded by sea after all........... hang on a second All land is surrounded by sea .... Lol good point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 The clock has been turned back 45 years, how very sad, and when you really look at how we as a country have developed in that time has it honestly been that bad that it should have come to this. Those who say we are still European yet voted out are correct, but only because of location, but beyond that any European alliance for a greater cause for all as been dismantled by a nationalistic Islanders mentality, and not a European mentality. EFC-Paul and holystove 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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