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Referendum  

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Best brexit-analogy thus far:   (from Twitter) Arsenal fans, disappointed by years of underperformance, lay the blame on the Premiership and vote, by a small majority, to leave it. The club manag

Someone made a comparison between UK and EU on democratic accountability:  (as far as I can tell it's accurate) In the UK, the system on the left is perceived to be democratic, the one on th

Just say it. He’s a cunt. 

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3 hours ago, Matt said:

Was in a really small bar/restaurant in the hills here yesterday, well off the tourist track and a place that you need someone to tell you about otherwise you'd never find it, one of my favourite spots with stunning views from a terrace built on stilts. Only three tables occupied and one of them consisted of four Brits (Yorkshire I'd say from the accent) being absolutely obnoxious at a very loud volume. Fully understand people being pro-Brexit but these were out and out racist (Albanians and Romanians their particular target) and ignorant ("...did we have a referendum before we joined?" None of them knew). Now my wife has a fierce temper on her at times (and is the daughter of two refugees) and I was just sat there thinking, "...please don't say anything Deb". We had our drink and left, if they'd have mentioned Farage I would have asked them, very politely to shut the f'ck up as we're on holiday and don't need to hear this xenophobia. Was actually amazed my wife managed to hold her tongue, not like her:lol:.

Not for a mo suggesting they're representative of all leavers so please don't take it that way, but they were frankly, in a word, scum.

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John, reading back... how do you accept that a new PM discussion is “democratic” whilst insisting that “the people voted”?  Do you not see the hypocrisy, fundamental flaw, of representative democracy? Less than 1% of the supposed electorate can decide who makes decisions on the country’s future without issue other than its “tradition” (actually, it’s law because the people get to decide because they were voted to represent the public) but refusing a discussion on a potential terminal surgery is democratic? 

honestly baffled :

1) new PM discussion = representative democracy = no say for the people ( is what we’re based on, yes, agree but it’s shite)

2) direct democracy = a vote like Brexit, despite lack of information and lying/ deception/ both 

so, when you refer to democracy, which are you talking about; the legal shit one or the one that should be in place but no one seems to know how to work?

 

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7 hours ago, Palfy said:

As far as I’m aware Parliament have already voted that we cannot leave without a deal, so I cannot see how Boris or him can say we will leave without a deal if we have to it’s not solely their decision. 

They’ve changed the laws before, they can change them again. 

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20 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Very true Matt but to change what Parliament has already sanctioned they would have to convince a lot of MPs to change their minds, and I cannot see that happening. 

Doesn't need that, a new PM could "prorogue" parliament effectively shutting it down so the default position of leave without a deal would happen without the House having any say. Raab said he'd do it, Boris has said nothing on anything; he's obviously been told that the only way he's going to possibly not win is to actually open his mouth and say something retarded (hate that word but in this case it's the only one I can think of). Already ducked out of one TV debate, he's going to do the same for the Sky one tomorrow.

We're doomed Captain Mainwaring.

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42 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Doesn't need that, a new PM could "prorogue" parliament effectively shutting it down so the default position of leave without a deal would happen without the House having any say. Raab said he'd do it, Boris has said nothing on anything; he's obviously been told that the only way he's going to possibly not win is to actually open his mouth and say something retarded (hate that word but in this case it's the only one I can think of). Already ducked out of one TV debate, he's going to do the same for the Sky one tomorrow.

We're doomed Captain Mainwaring.

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That was said by Raabid but in reality it wouldn’t stand or happen, it was the voice of a desperate man trying to prove he meant business, we’ve left the times of Oliver Cromwell Boris or anyone else wouldn’t succeed trying to go down that road. 

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10 minutes ago, Palfy said:

That was said by Raabid but in reality it wouldn’t stand or happen, it was the voice of a desperate man trying to prove he meant business, we’ve left the times of Oliver Cromwell Boris or anyone else wouldn’t succeed trying to go down that road. 

As far as I'm aware neither C Hunt or Boris have ruled it out.

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8 minutes ago, MikeO said:

As far as I'm aware neither C Hunt or Boris have ruled it out.

The high Court and the queen with the backing of the majority of MPs and the House of Lords would suspend the Parliament and the powers of the PM. 

I wouldn’t concern yourself to much that that would happen, that was just the rantings of Raab even the EU wouldn’t accept that as constitutional. 

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9 hours ago, MikeO said:

As far as I'm aware neither C Hunt or Boris have ruled it out.

Well you can count Boris out of that equation he has just announced he will be leaving with a deal, in his words “ things between us and the EU have changed in the last 3 years “ I think more like he now realises what a monumental fuck up he has helped to create, and now he may become PM he hasn’t got the courage to press the self destruct button. 

All this from a man who was going to walk away without a deal who believed any deal was a bad deal now advocating a deal, if that’s not proof that he lied to also who voted Brexit I don't know what is. 

Personally all this is adding up to a second referendum and us staying and rightfully so. 

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12 hours ago, Palfy said:

Very true Matt but to change what Parliament has already sanctioned they would have to convince a lot of MPs to change their minds, and I cannot see that happening. 

MPs have already been blackmailed by May into changing their minds. They’re fickle and predominantly looking after themselves. Wouldn’t need much convincing at all in my opinion

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On 25/06/2019 at 08:36, Matt said:

MPs have already been blackmailed by May into changing their minds. They’re fickle and predominantly looking after themselves. Wouldn’t need much convincing at all in my opinion

MP's are the most self serving people on the planet - all parties.

Matt, off-thread I know, but have been reading about the spat between Switzerland and the EU.  As you are at the coal-face, as they say,  I would be interested in hearing your take on this.

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19 minutes ago, johnh said:

MP's are the most self serving people on the planet - all parties.

Matt, off-thread I know, but have been reading about the spat between Switzerland and the EU.  As you are at the coal-face, as they say,  I would be interested in hearing your take on this.

Pretty sure we’ve covered this before and not much has changed. It’s just negotiations. Both sides know the importance of the other. Honestly, there’s never anything about this on the radio or in papers that I see, and everyone (Swiss) I know has a positive view on the EU. 

The immigration thing in Switzerland is hilarious. Nearly all immigrants work in the boarder cantons, all of which support immigration, and Switzerland is largely dependent on it. The noise comes from the more rural cantons who are barely effected. The big issue is the frontaliers, people who work in Switzerland but live on the other side of the border in France for example (meaning they make a fortune and take the money out of Switzerland) but this is 100% in Swiss hands because they issue the permits to allow people to do it. 

So far as I see, it’s just media noise.

at least we agree on MPs :) I deliberately didn’t mention parties. It’s shocking that people elected to represent the population concentrate on their own careers rather than the good of the country. “Democracy”, :lol: 

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1 hour ago, Matt said:

Pretty sure we’ve covered this before and not much has changed. It’s just negotiations. Both sides know the importance of the other. Honestly, there’s never anything about this on the radio or in papers that I see, and everyone (Swiss) I know has a positive view on the EU. 

The immigration thing in Switzerland is hilarious. Nearly all immigrants work in the boarder cantons, all of which support immigration, and Switzerland is largely dependent on it. The noise comes from the more rural cantons who are barely effected. The big issue is the frontaliers, people who work in Switzerland but live on the other side of the border in France for example (meaning they make a fortune and take the money out of Switzerland) but this is 100% in Swiss hands because they issue the permits to allow people to do it. 

So far as I see, it’s just media noise.

at least we agree on MPs :) I deliberately didn’t mention parties. It’s shocking that people elected to represent the population concentrate on their own careers rather than the good of the country. “Democracy”, :lol: 

Cheers Matt, thanks.

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14 hours ago, Palfy said:

I’m sure there sort it out I expect most of the EU higher Archie have Swiss bank accounts to worry about, so they won’t be making to much noise just in case  

Swiss banking secrecy was lifted in 2018 under pressure from EU and the OECD.  

Current discussion is about something else (streamlining the EU - Switzerland relationship from some 120 agreements into one treaty).

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8 hours ago, holystove said:

Swiss banking secrecy was lifted in 2018 under pressure from EU and the OECD.  

Current discussion is about something else (streamlining the EU - Switzerland relationship from some 120 agreements into one treaty).

Okay mate lighten up you had a sense of humour by pass operation that was said tongue in cheek, I must apologise for not taking into account that some from other countries may not get my humour and probably some from this as well, but try and stop being so officious you never know you might enjoy having a little laugh now and then 😀

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1 hour ago, Palfy said:

Okay mate lighten up you had a sense of humour by pass operation that was said tongue in cheek, I must apologise for not taking into account that some from other countries may not get my humour and probably some from this as well, but try and stop being so officious you never know you might enjoy having a little laugh now and then 😀

To be honest, natives struggle with your humour too...

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1 hour ago, Palfy said:

What’s the weather been like for you Matt my friends son played in the European Amateur golf tournament in Austria last week, and they struggled with the heat it was so hot 🥵 

Between 35-37c with humidity. The cars AC has been struggling, and was often 45c when I got in it :( but cooler this week, 28c on average 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Did some research to find out the most senior person who has accused the EU of being 'undemocratic'.  The most senior I could find was the outgoing president of the EU, Jean-Claude Juncker.  Now if Juncker accuses you of being undemocratic, you know you're in trouble.

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29 minutes ago, johnh said:

Did some research to find out the most senior person who has accused the EU of being 'undemocratic'.  The most senior I could find was the outgoing president of the EU, Jean-Claude Juncker.  Now if Juncker accuses you of being undemocratic, you know you're in trouble.

Source?

as for undemocratic, it again shows how people simply don’t understand their own democracy. The UK supposedly has a democracy but it’s a ridiculous statement to make, for the same reasons the EU is democratic

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10 hours ago, London Blue said:

Sad and true, my heart goes out to the hundreds of thousands of innocent people who will suffer the consequences of Brexit, especially a no deal Brexit.

 

47 minutes ago, MikeO said:

LB's a policeman.

Forgot about that. LB, I wish you all the best mate. My brother in law is a Bobby too, so I know how hard it already is thanks to May (before being PM) and don’t want to imagine what Brexit, deal or no deal, will bring for you. Good luck

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