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Brexit...


Hafnia

Referendum  

50 members have voted

  1. 1. In or out?

    • Stay in
      26
    • Leave
      24

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Mirallas? The Irish contingent?

 

Or am I misunderstanding something?

So for non eu players currently they have to be involved in 75% of their national team matches to get a work permit.

 

Mirallas lukaku mcgeady Coleman Gibson Mori Oviedo besic tarashaj niasse

 

All those play for their national teams all the time. Gerry and Robles do not which makes sense.

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That writer probably didn't even remember Tarashaj.

 

But please tell me, what bollocks about that? That's how things worked before. If the Brexit happens the agreements regarding free movement are off. And if you do want to get rid of the Poles etc. the same rules will apply to footballers as well. If not, then there won't be any change in the immigration laws.

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Saw this today. (just know that i'm not remain or leave, so this is to just balance the argument)

 

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about June 23rd, and people want to know the facts. Here are some:

You are not voting to leave the EEA or WTO, meaning all of the UK's trade and benefit agreements will remain unchanged should we leave, until such a time that the UK decides to renegotiate them for any reason.

You are not voting to leave NATO, meaning our security agreements remain unchanged. Should we receive an act of hostility from a non-NATO member, then NATO countries are obliged to come to our assistance. This does not change.

You are not voting to leave the UN, G8 or G20, meaning Britain will have the same voice on the world stage as it does today.

You are not voting to leave Europe!! The UK will still, geographically, be part of Europe. Non political organisations aligned to Europe will still extend membership to the UK (I.e. sports governing bodies, and so on).

You are not voting to stop recognising Interpol, Europol and neither are you voting for SIS / MI6 to stop dealing with other intelligence services in the fight against terrorism and global, organised crime.

You are not voting against being able to travel to Europe, contrary to the belief of some fools recently on TV. The UK has always maintained stricter border and passport controls than many EU members. This will not change. You will still use a passport to go on holiday and you will still be allowed entry to countries in Europe. You may even get chance to skip queues by using the non--EU queues at the airport (the only point so far that is my opinion, and not necessarily a fact).

The UK economy will benefit to the tune of £billions in the first year after we leave.

Medical and science research will not simply stop. The UK pays into the EU to then get money back in the form of funding. The UK will now be in control of this money and can choose to fund whatever UK based medical, science, art or other research it chooses.

Farming will not lose money because of EU funding being cut. The UK negotiated a rebate of some monies that the UK pays to the EU, in order to subsidise UK farmers. Instead of asking for our money back, we can give it straight to farmers. No change there.

You are not voting against human rights. The EU Convention on, and European Court of Human Rights are not part of the EU. Until parliament passes a new bill of rights for the UK, these will still apply, as will precedents already passed down to UK courts from Brussels.

You are not voting to kick anyone out of the UK or block access to anyone. Neither are you voting to stop recruiting valuable European workers into things like the NHS. Like my other point about passports for travel, the UK is already outside of the Schengen zone and so migrant workers must enter the UK with a valid passport before and after June 23rd. That will not change. British borders maintain full control of who comes and goes. Should someone have the skills to apply to work in the NHS, then they will still be permitted travel and given an opportunity to apply for a job. Worst case, points based assessment, like the US, Canada and Australia use, will come into effect. The UK is likely to negotiate freedom of labour movement though, in exchange for freedom of goods movement.

You are not voting to move jobs nor production out of the UK! The EU actually helped fund the move of Ford Transit production from the UK to Turkey... Yes, the EU helped give UK jobs to people in Turkey by giving Ford a loan of £80m with very generous terms!

What you are voting for is UK sovereignty. You are voting to stay in or leave a political union of leaders and representatives that you British people did not elect. You are voting against a commission of unelected, elite men that nobody at all voted for and yet they make decisions on our behalf. You are simply voting to bring sovereignty back to Westminster, and that is all. If you worry about that because you don't like the Conservative government, look at the reality. Their majority in parliament is very slim. They have been blocked on big decisions already. You are therefore not giving sovereignty to David Cameron, but to the UK House of elected representatives. Do not be fooled by the fear campaigns that are simply run by the wealthy, who need EU money to thrive! Think about the future, and your family's future

 

Edited by Lowensda
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That writer probably didn't even remember Tarashaj.

 

But please tell me, what bollocks about that? That's how things worked before. If the Brexit happens the agreements regarding free movement are off. And if you do want to get rid of the Poles etc. the same rules will apply to footballers as well. If not, then there won't be any change in the immigration laws.

He's Swiss, so already a non-EU citizen and not impacted

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He's Swiss, so already a non-EU citizen and not impacted

Switzerland is part of the Schengen agreement. As far I understand that agreement is one of the big issues in the Brexit camp because unless you remove yourself from it, immigration will continue like it has so far.

 

Am I the only one old enough to remember how things were before that agreement in the Premier League?

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And then you post a political broadcast for the "leave" party :rofl:.

 

That argument's about as balanced as Donald Trump :P.

 

I'm completely undecided. What I meant was, there seems to be significantly more articles and "evidence" to support the Remain party in this thread so I was equaling it out a little.

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Switzerland is part of the Schengen agreement. As far I understand that agreement is one of the big issues in the Brexit camp because unless you remove yourself from it, immigration will continue like it has so far.

 

Am I the only one old enough to remember how things were before that agreement in the Premier League?

But where does Schengen come into it? It's weird; Swiss is non-EU but part of Schengen, Britain is EU but not part of Schengen (in terms of travel, apparently is part of the information part of the agreement)

 

The only thing I can gather from all this Brexit talk, is that no one has a clue what will happen, there's no definitive plan of change, and it's about as clear as mud for everyone.

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I'm completely undecided. What I meant was, there seems to be significantly more articles and "evidence" to support the Remain party in this thread so I was equaling it out a little.

 

I think there are quite a few more out posts than in personally; certainly leave is winning the vote.

 

Nobody really knows the consequences of leaving; for all the points the article raises remain would have a counter argument which would sound just as convincing.

Single issue decision for me which I've already explained; plus I'd rather jump off a tall building than vote with UKIP.

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But where does Schengen come into it? It's weird; Swiss is non-EU but part of Schengen, Britain is EU but not part of Schengen (in terms of travel, apparently is part of the information part of the agreement)

 

The only thing I can gather from all this Brexit talk, is that no one has a clue what will happen, there's no definitive plan of change, and it's about as clear as mud for everyone.

Oh yes, sorry. Freedom of movement for workers is defined in article 45 in the TFEU (Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union).

 

What are the main points in the Brexit camp? From where I live one of the main points is immigration. Especially the Eastern Europeans working there. That's why I assume England would tighten the immigration laws. Plus not being in the EU would mean TFEU would also not apply, not until an agreement between Britain and the EU can be renegotiated, which would take years. Just dealing with the Brexit would take two years so negotiating all the other treaties would take who knows how many years.

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Most of the arguments for leaving seem to be scaremongering rather than factual.

 

But that's just me.

 

Yep. As been pointed out, the Remain campaign have been horrendous in scaremongering. Both seem as bad as each other.

 

As neither a remain or leave voter, i'm not only finding it all really embarrassing but there's nowhere you can go to clear up the pros and cons for both sides. Everything is so strong in favour or against, it's hard to see the facts. Then again, it's all guess work anyway. No one knows for sure how it'll pan out.

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As I see it, the difference between the arguments is that the Remain side deals with facts - or at least conjuctures based oh them - while Brexit goes for emotions and every time they are asked if they know what will happen the answer is "I don't know". Brexit's tactic is difficult for the Remain side, because how do you campaign when the other side just ignores facts? Just like what Trump is doing, how can the other candidates respond? Trying to be plain rational just doesn't work with a lot of the voters.

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Oh yes, sorry. Freedom of movement for workers is defined in article 45 in the TFEU (Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union).

 

What are the main points in the Brexit camp? From where I live one of the main points is immigration. Especially the Eastern Europeans working there. That's why I assume England would tighten the immigration laws. Plus not being in the EU would mean TFEU would also not apply, not until an agreement between Britain and the EU can be renegotiated, which would take years. Just dealing with the Brexit would take two years so negotiating all the other treaties would take who knows how many years.

Interesting, thanks for clarifying :)

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But you don't think the stay party are scaremongering.

They have gone down every avenue to scare people into voting to stay in.

The stay argument seems to be backed up by a few facts though, while the leave party are telling me... I might not be any worse off.

Thinking rather selfishly if I am honest. My life has grown over the last five years.

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As I see it, the difference between the arguments is that the Remain side deals with facts - or at least conjuctures based oh them - while Brexit goes for emotions and every time they are asked if they know what will happen the answer is "I don't know". Brexit's tactic is difficult for the Remain side, because how do you campaign when the other side just ignores facts? Just like what Trump is doing, how can the other candidates respond? Trying to be plain rational just doesn't work with a lot of the voters.

 

So you believe Cameron when he says Brexit could result in World War 3? And Osborne saying house prices will fall following Brexit when the law of supply and demand will dictate the opposite for years to come.

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So you believe Cameron when he says Brexit could result in World War 3? And Osborne saying house prices will fall following Brexit when the law of supply and demand will dictate the opposite for years to come.

 

First bit I can't find anywhere that he's actually said that, he's said things like..

 

"Can we be so sure peace and stability on our continent are assured beyond any shadow of doubt? Is that a risk worth taking?
"I would never be so rash to make that assumption."
....and headline writers have twisted it (unless you can find a quote confirming it, I can't).
Second part if we reduce immigration and therefor population growth demand for houses will inevitably fall; no guarantee whatsoever that house prices will continue to rise, we've had crashes in the past where people have found themselves in negative equity. I think that's likely to happen again if we leave, unless you're lucky enough to be in London/South East.
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