MikeO Posted March 16, 2018 Report Share Posted March 16, 2018 Sorry @rubecula, was in a foul mood last night for uninteresting reasons, shouldn't have been rude though; not your fault.....unless you're secretly in league with my wife. rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted March 16, 2018 Report Share Posted March 16, 2018 11 hours ago, MikeO said: Sorry @rubecula, was in a foul mood last night for uninteresting reasons, shouldn't have been rude though; not your fault.....unless you're secretly in league with my wife. not a prob mate, it is an emotive subject I like to think we are grown up enough to take some comments with a pinch of salt, and anyway I have said things in the past that I am not so proud of. MikeO and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted March 17, 2018 Report Share Posted March 17, 2018 19 hours ago, rubecula said: not a prob mate, it is an emotive subject I like to think we are grown up enough to take some comments with a pinch of salt, and anyway I have said things in the past that I am not so proud of. I have said things in the past that I am not so proud of - me too, like 'I do'. Bailey and rubecula 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted March 18, 2018 Report Share Posted March 18, 2018 21 hours ago, johnh said: I have said things in the past that I am not so proud of - me too, like 'I do'. some of us have more past than others eh John? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 19, 2018 Report Share Posted March 19, 2018 David Davis is probably the worst public speaker any government ever had.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43456502 Well done for sorting a transition, we just need to work out (small point) what we're transitioning to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted March 20, 2018 Report Share Posted March 20, 2018 21 hours ago, MikeO said: David Davis is probably the worst public speaker any government ever had.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43456502 Well done for sorting a transition, we just need to work out (small point) what we're transitioning to. For Brexiteers the transition is actually a smart move. Thanks to the transition the UK will be facing the cliff edge when it's already outside the EU, instead of in March 2019. If it were facing the cliff edge when still in the EU, there could be a strong push to remain. With transition, the UK will just ease out of the EU and noone will notice before it's too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 5 hours ago, holystove said: For Brexiteers the transition is actually a smart move. Thanks to the transition the UK will be facing the cliff edge when it's already outside the EU, instead of in March 2019. If it were facing the cliff edge when still in the EU, there could be a strong push to remain. With transition, the UK will just ease out of the EU and noone will notice before it's too late. too late? too late for what? we will still be here and we are not going anywhere. the world is not about to end in a massive fireball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 9 hours ago, rubecula said: too late? too late for what? we will still be here and we are not going anywhere. the world is not about to end in a massive fireball Too late to remain, obviously. Ofcourse the world won't end, specifically because, as we can tell from what has happened so far, Brexit means continued regulatory alignment with the EU, continued financial contributions and supremacy of the Court of Justice. The only real "result" will be the end of Freedom of Momevement. The price? A weaker economy (on both sides of the Channel) and loss of influence on EU regulation (which will apply in the UK anyway). I can't imagine at the end of all this, a signifciant proportion of the UK public not wondering what was the point of all of this .. The option to remain, however, will be gone after March 2019. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 the option to remain is already gone, in truth, we could avoid any further misunderstanding by talking more about benefits to both us and Europe. For us we will be able to avoid being forced into a united states of Europe (I think, personally, this is a good thing anyway) Europe will benefit from getting rid of an argumentative member. I like the idea of the common market, but only when all members can be individuals, so that allows free movement between member states. My only argument has always been nameless people deciding for us who is the leader. I have never found out which political party Junker represents, and without accountability in this way I really can not agree with the folks on here. besides who voted him in and how can he be voted out if he cocks it up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 36 minutes ago, rubecula said: I have never found out which political party Junker represents, and without accountability in this way I really can not agree with the folks on here. besides who voted him in and how can he be voted out if he cocks it up? It's been pointed out before but he was democratically elected by the MEPs; we vote them into place and then they vote for who's going to be in charge because we've given them the mandate. Same as how Theresa got to be PM, no member of the public voted for her specifically, we just voted for our representatives and they made that daft decision. Junker represents a right wing alliance. May represents a right wing party kept in power by obnoxious creationist loonies. Not complicated, just insane. rubecula and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 thanks Mike, I think I will never really understand it, no matter how often it is hit into me. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 45 minutes ago, rubecula said: the option to remain is already gone, in truth, we could avoid any further misunderstanding by talking more about benefits to both us and Europe. For us we will be able to avoid being forced into a united states of Europe (I think, personally, this is a good thing anyway) Europe will benefit from getting rid of an argumentative member. I like the idea of the common market, but only when all members can be individuals, so that allows free movement between member states. My only argument has always been nameless people deciding for us who is the leader. I have never found out which political party Junker represents, and without accountability in this way I really can not agree with the folks on here. besides who voted him in and how can he be voted out if he cocks it up? Juncker is a member of the EPP (same party Tories were in until Cameron took them out to join ECR). He was voted in by the EU Parliament and the EU Parliament can vote him out. I feel like we have been over this before. There's only a very small percentage of europeans that want a US of E, I don't see it ever happening. You have to look at the EU as an institutional framework to allow like-minded nations to work together, not in statist terms. rubecula and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 11 hours ago, MikeO said: It's been pointed out before but he was democratically elected by the MEPs; we vote them into place and then they vote for who's going to be in charge because we've given them the mandate. Same as how Theresa got to be PM, no member of the public voted for her specifically, we just voted for our representatives and they made that daft decision. Junker represents a right wing alliance. May represents a right wing party kept in power by obnoxious creationist loonies. Not complicated, just insane. At some stage we may as well just introduce a proper third branch of government , everyone thinks/wants to vote for a leader and the Queen is well past her use by date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 14 hours ago, MikeO said: It's been pointed out before but he was democratically elected by the MEPs; we vote them into place and then they vote for who's going to be in charge because we've given them the mandate. Same as how Theresa got to be PM, no member of the public voted for her specifically, we just voted for our representatives and they made that daft decision. Junker represents a right wing alliance. May represents a right wing party kept in power by obnoxious creationist loonies. Not complicated, just insane. Not quite as insane as the thought that we might by governed by the extreme loony left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 41 minutes ago, johnh said: Not quite as insane as the thought that we might by governed by the extreme loony left. You mean the party pushing for equality for all rather than austerity for everyone except the rich? Shocking. pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 I think John is referring to the Jeremy Corbin lot Matt, the labour leader wants to appease Putin over the release of nerve gas in Salisbury you see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 37 minutes ago, rubecula said: ....the labour leader wants to appease Putin over the release of nerve gas in Salisbury you see. Except he doesn't, it's just tory/tabloid propaganda... "...the Russian authorities must be held to account on the basis of the evidence, and our response must be both decisive and proportionate. But let us not manufacture a division over Russia where none exists. Labour is of course no supporter of the Putin regime, its conservative authoritarianism, abuse of human rights or political and economic corruption. And we pay tribute to Russia’s many campaigners for social justice and human rights, including for LGBT rights." https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/15/salisbury-attack-conflict-britain-cold-war Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43489462 rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 3 hours ago, rubecula said: I think John is referring to the Jeremy Corbin lot Matt, the labour leader wants to appease Putin over the release of nerve gas in Salisbury you see. 3 hours ago, MikeO said: Except he doesn't, it's just tory/tabloid propaganda... "...the Russian authorities must be held to account on the basis of the evidence, and our response must be both decisive and proportionate. But let us not manufacture a division over Russia where none exists. Labour is of course no supporter of the Putin regime, its conservative authoritarianism, abuse of human rights or political and economic corruption. And we pay tribute to Russia’s many campaigners for social justice and human rights, including for LGBT rights." https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/15/salisbury-attack-conflict-britain-cold-war Thanks, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 3 hours ago, MikeO said: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43489462 love it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 3 hours ago, MikeO said: Except he doesn't, it's just tory/tabloid propaganda... "...the Russian authorities must be held to account on the basis of the evidence, and our response must be both decisive and proportionate. But let us not manufacture a division over Russia where none exists. Labour is of course no supporter of the Putin regime, its conservative authoritarianism, abuse of human rights or political and economic corruption. And we pay tribute to Russia’s many campaigners for social justice and human rights, including for LGBT rights." https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/15/salisbury-attack-conflict-britain-cold-war http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3837299/Putin-s-useful-idiots-Corbyn-s-support-Russia-shames-party-country-writes-DOMINIC-SANDBROOK.html always been a Labour voter until Corbin became leader and no power on earth could make me a Tory, so I pray we get a real olde type Labour leader very soon. I think the last one was Michael Foot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 41 minutes ago, rubecula said: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3837299/Putin-s-useful-idiots-Corbyn-s-support-Russia-shames-party-country-writes-DOMINIC-SANDBROOK.html always been a Labour voter until Corbin became leader and no power on earth could make me a Tory, so I pray we get a real olde type Labour leader very soon. I think the last one was Michael Foot Proved my point Rubes; right wing tory tabloid cherry picking "facts" and making 2+2=5. And Michael Foot was the last "real left" Labour leader, very similar to Corbyn and was ditched because he was unelectable at the time; "new labour" came about as a direct result of his left wing ideology. | really don't see how anyone reminiscing for the days of Foot could possibly be anti-Corbyn, two peas on a pod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 different times mate totally different imho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 12 minutes ago, rubecula said: different times mate totally different imho So you always supported "old labour" and yearn for the days when the party was like that but now we have an "old labour" leader in place again you don't want one because "times are different"? I'm confused. What is it you want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 14 minutes ago, MikeO said: So you always supported "old labour" and yearn for the days when the party was like that but now we have an "old labour" leader in place again you don't want one because "times are different"? I'm confused. What is it you want? Corbyn is no more an 'old labour leader' than Foot was, in Labour party recent history they are both anachronisms. Gaitskell, Wilson, Callaghan, Kinnock, Smith, they are old labour leaders and all to the right of Corbyn and Foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 34 minutes ago, johnh said: Corbyn is no more an 'old labour leader' than Foot was, in Labour party recent history they are both anachronisms. Gaitskell, Wilson, Callaghan, Kinnock, Smith, they are old labour leaders and all to the right of Corbyn and Foot. That's a different discussion, I was responding to Rubes' confusing wish for a leader like Foot when he has one but won't vote for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 5 hours ago, johnh said: Corbyn is no more an 'old labour leader' than Foot was, in Labour party recent history they are both anachronisms. Gaitskell, Wilson, Callaghan, Kinnock, Smith, they are old labour leaders and all to the right of Corbyn and Foot. yes very true John the last time I voted labour was for John Smith, living in Wales is a bit different to when I lived in Liverpool. I do not think I can vote for any party just now. However if somebody wants my vote they know where I live, all they have to do is knock on my door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/i-know-vote-leave-cheated-12246722.amp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 On 3/14/2018 at 08:01, pete0 said: Parliament is going to debate the petition you signed – “Parliament's vote on the Brexit deal must include an option to remain in the EU.”. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/205169 The debate is scheduled for 23 April 2018. Changed to 30th April at 4.30pm. pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 Stumbled across this... https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/opinion/brexit-love-thy-neighbour-unless-12282600 Made me laugh anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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