Weirdness Abounds (or the Idrissa Gana Gueye Thread)

[Palfy]

Well can I just say before it’s closed again that for me Gana’s negatives out way his positives, I do except and and congratulate him on his stats for for tackles and interceptions. 

But when I watch him I see a player that is poor in possession of the ball that shows a lack of positioning sense that shows a lack of marking and seems oblivious to what’s going on around him and just allows runners to go past him, for me he’s not pleasing on my eye. 

For me he’s the sort of player that seems to be able to undo all the good he’s done in a game with school boy errors. 

I understand that I’m in a minority and fully except  that but that’s how I see him, he just isn’t doing for me. 

[MikeO]

6 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Well can I just say before it’s closed again that for me Gana’s negatives out way his positives, I do except and and congratulate him on his stats for for tackles and interceptions. 

But when I watch him I see a player that is poor in possession of the ball that shows a lack of positioning sense that shows a lack of marking and seems oblivious to what’s going on around him and just allows runners to go past him, for me he’s not pleasing on my eye. 

For me he’s the sort of player that seems to be able to undo all the good he’s done in a game with school boy errors. 

I understand that I’m in a minority and fully except  that but that’s how I see him, he just isn’t doing for me. 

For once someone talking shite is a breath of fresh air.

[Matt]

5 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Well can I just say before it’s closed again that for me Gana’s negatives out way his positives, I do except and and congratulate him on his stats for for tackles and interceptions. 

But when I watch him I see a player that is poor in possession of the ball that shows a lack of positioning sense that shows a lack of marking and seems oblivious to what’s going on around him and just allows runners to go past him, for me he’s not pleasing on my eye. 

For me he’s the sort of player that seems to be able to undo all the good he’s done in a game with school boy errors. 

I understand that I’m in a minority and fully except  that but that’s how I see him, he just isn’t doing for me. 

That’s fine mate, the opinions are just that. I mean, stats and everything else say you’re wrong like, and we can debate that as long as you like. 

The thread was closed and will be again if it descends into bickering and shit-slinging. A debate getting heated is one thing, this went into something else which won’t be happening again in future. 

So, yeah. Post what you like about Gana mate, just be prepared to be challenged  

[Shukes]

11 hours ago, Palfy said:

Well can I just say before it’s closed again that for me Gana’s negatives out way his positives, I do except and and congratulate him on his stats for for tackles and interceptions. 

But when I watch him I see a player that is poor in possession of the ball that shows a lack of positioning sense that shows a lack of marking and seems oblivious to what’s going on around him and just allows runners to go past him, for me he’s not pleasing on my eye. 

For me he’s the sort of player that seems to be able to undo all the good he’s done in a game with school boy errors. 

I understand that I’m in a minority and fully except  that but that’s how I see him, he just isn’t doing for me. 

I see it differently Palfy. I see you talking about his positioning etc and then I watch a match and see him breaking up play brilliantly. It’s not just the tackles, but the running in the right channel and pushing a player away from goal... like he did with Hazard.

Its also the simple tackling and giving that is a skill that goes unnoticed a lot of the time.

I have actually sat back many times and watched him carefully due to this thread to see if I’m missing something. And apart from the occasional caught in possession, where I think he can buy a foul ( Pienaar esc ), I just don’t see the things you see..... as in they aren’t practically there for me.

When we watch the tackle on Hazard for example, it’s irrefutable. The Shot that hit he post, the few goals he scored, it’s all irrefutable. But these give aways and brain farts.... just don’t seem to be caught in camera and maybe that’s the issue. 

Maybe im not seeing what’s going on live on the pitch.

[pete0]

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

I see it differently Palfy. I see you talking about his positioning etc and then I watch a match and see him breaking up play brilliantly. It’s not just the tackles, but the running in the right channel and pushing a player away from goal... like he did with Hazard.

Its also the simple tackling and giving that is a skill that goes unnoticed a lot of the time.

I have actually sat back many times and watched him carefully due to this thread to see if I’m missing something. And apart from the occasional caught in possession, where I think he can buy a foul ( Pienaar esc ), I just don’t see the things you see..... as in they aren’t practically there for me.

When we watch the tackle on Hazard for example, it’s irrefutable. The Shot that hit he post, the few goals he scored, it’s all irrefutable. But these give aways and brain farts.... just don’t seem to be caught in camera and maybe that’s the issue. 

Maybe im not seeing what’s going on live on the pitch.

See the Fulham chances he gave away. No one notices/cares as they never scored from them. But for me and Palfy we see him do that stupid stuff every game and even if it doesn't lead to a goal it's still not acceptable at this level to give chances away so easily. 

[StevO]

I rate the lad highly, he does some really good work in the midfield. That said, if we could bring in a truly world class midfielder in his place I wouldn’t bat an eyelid. 

[Hafnia]

I'll start picking on gana when I notice him losing the ball or not doing his defensive midfielder role. 

Till then he remains one of the keys reasons why I see our team improve as much as it has.

I don't recall bracewell getting slated in 84/85 because "All he did was break up play" and scored just 2 goals.... 

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

See the Fulham chances he gave away. No one notices/cares as they never scored from them. But for me and Palfy we see him do that stupid stuff every game and even if it doesn't lead to a goal it's still not acceptable at this level to give chances away so easily. 

That’s why for me he undoes a lot of the good stuff he does and he does do some very good stuff, it’s like he’s got blinkers on and doesn’t see what’s going on around him, he’s just attracted to the ball I liken it to my dog if I threw the ball across a busy road my dog would run across to get it and wouldn’t see the danger around him by doing that, for me Gana is the same he hasn’t got the sense to hold his position he chases the ball like a dog with no concern of who he’s left unmarked or the big space he’s left for the opposition to walk into. 

Its not controlled enough for my liking he needs to take the blinkers off and look at the bigger picture just chasing the ball regardless of anything else isn’t that what kids do. 

[Shukes]

3 hours ago, pete0 said:

See the Fulham chances he gave away. No one notices/cares as they never scored from them. But for me and Palfy we see him do that stupid stuff every game and even if it doesn't lead to a goal it's still not acceptable at this level to give chances away so easily. 

Again to be honest, no I didn’t. I saw the team collectively give away chances, but not specifically Gana. 

Without watching them again, I’m not going to say they weren’t his fault. Just that in my eyes I could blame other players more.

But sure, I could be wrong or just didn’t notice.

[Cornish Steve]

3 hours ago, StevO said:

I rate the lad highly, he does some really good work in the midfield. That said, if we could bring in a truly world class midfielder in his place I wouldn’t bat an eyelid. 

I can't wait to see McCarthy back. If he could get a run of games, it would be interesting to compare stats.

[Palfy]

6 hours ago, Shukes said:

I see it differently Palfy. I see you talking about his positioning etc and then I watch a match and see him breaking up play brilliantly. It’s not just the tackles, but the running in the right channel and pushing a player away from goal... like he did with Hazard.

Its also the simple tackling and giving that is a skill that goes unnoticed a lot of the time.

I have actually sat back many times and watched him carefully due to this thread to see if I’m missing something. And apart from the occasional caught in possession, where I think he can buy a foul ( Pienaar esc ), I just don’t see the things you see..... as in they aren’t practically there for me.

When we watch the tackle on Hazard for example, it’s irrefutable. The Shot that hit he post, the few goals he scored, it’s all irrefutable. But these give aways and brain farts.... just don’t seem to be caught in camera and maybe that’s the issue. 

Maybe im not seeing what’s going on live on the pitch.

I know you do mate and I respect your opinion, we obviously look and see different things in him, on paper 🧻 I can’t prove you wrong (notice the paper 🧻 is a toilet roll ) but by my own judgement and standards he lacks a good footballers brain. 

[pete0]

1 hour ago, Cornish Steve said:

I can't wait to see McCarthy back. If he could get a run of games, it would be interesting to compare stats.

Defensively I'd hazard a bet that he'd make less tackles but also give less clear chances away as he knows when to sit back. Clever fouls opposed to silly ones. 

Attacking McCarthy moves the ball better, helps with the tempo and gets the ball moving forward. Possibly give the ball away more as there is more risk in his play but he's good enough to be taking those calculated risks rather than playing safe the majority of time and positions himself well enough to be less exposed when we lose possession. 

[Shukes]

Have to agree McCarthy is a better attacking player, he is very dynamic and aggressive.

[Matt]

5 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Have to agree McCarthy is a better attacking player, he is very dynamic and aggressive.

Yup. 

[markjazzbassist]

its funny people remember mccarthy as some world beater or something, i remember one good season and then multiple seasons of him jockeying his man and getting beat left right and center.  sure he's scored the odd goal here and there but i've never thought he was any more of a threat than gana is.  not to mention, gana is actually fit and doesn't get injured every other week.  

[Hafnia]

54 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

its funny people remember mccarthy as some world beater or something, i remember one good season and then multiple seasons of him jockeying his man and getting beat left right and center.  sure he's scored the odd goal here and there but i've never thought he was any more of a threat than gana is.  not to mention, gana is actually fit and doesn't get injured every other week.  

He was great till his hamstring/groin injury got mismanaged.  Then he did it 3 times in a row.

Gana and McCarthy will be an option to do a like for like replacement if and when the starter gets a yellow card.  Either one of these players is the most likely to pick up a yellow card and when they play on a yellow it's a nuisance.  Too often we see combative players nullified by a yellow card. 

 

[markjazzbassist]

i said it the last time mccarthy got healthy and i'll say it again, sell him immediately before he gets injured again and were stuck with his wages.  Boro, Huddersfield, west brom, i'm sure someone will take him.  i like gana and his replacement beni.  think we need to get rid of morgan come january.

[Cornish Steve]

42 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

i said it the last time mccarthy got healthy and i'll say it again, sell him immediately before he gets injured again and were stuck with his wages.  Boro, Huddersfield, west brom, i'm sure someone will take him.  i like gana and his replacement beni.  think we need to get rid of morgan come january.

Much better teams than the ones you mention would be after him. I’ll repeat what I’ve said before, too: He was not prone to injury before coming to Everton, and his most recent injury is because he gave more for the team than maybe the rest combined at the time. You don’t ditch players for that. 

[StevO]

1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said:

i said it the last time mccarthy got healthy and i'll say it again, sell him immediately before he gets injured again and were stuck with his wages.  Boro, Huddersfield, west brom, i'm sure someone will take him.  i like gana and his replacement beni.  think we need to get rid of morgan come january.

What do you see in Beni that is even close to Morgan’s level from a handful or games? Even if Gomes and Gana have the shirt at the moment Morgan is a more than capable back up. Beni hasn’t really shown anything, as the only manager who gave him a try was Unsworth and barely had a look in since, I don’t see why anyone would even think he’s close to competing. I think too many people have this hang up about Morgan since the Mirallas incident, and way too many forget the level he has proved himself as a player (I won’t be forgetting the Chelsea game any time soon), if there is a chance McCarthy can get back to that after so many injuries there is more than a chance Morgan could after a year of poor form. If he could get back to that form he is first name on the team sheet, I wouldn’t write him off just yet.  

[markjazzbassist]

3 minutes ago, StevO said:

What do you see in Beni that is even close to Morgan’s level from a handful or games? Even if Gomes and Gana have the shirt at the moment Morgan is a more than capable back up. Beni hasn’t really shown anything, as the only manager who gave him a try was Unsworth and barely had a look in since, I don’t see why anyone would even think he’s close to competing. I think too many people have this hang up about Morgan since the Mirallas incident, and way too many forget the level he has proved himself as a player (I won’t be forgetting the Chelsea game any time soon), if there is a chance McCarthy can get back to that after so many injuries there is more than a chance Morgan could after a year of poor form. If he could get back to that form he is first name on the team sheet, I wouldn’t write him off just yet.  

he's a completely different player than morgan for starters, beni is more akin to gana in looking to intercept, and run forward with the ball to help the attack get going.  morgan sits back and lays the ball off, and just be a protector if you will.  we don't need one of those in Marco's system.  Gomes does that just fine (and adds more to other facets of the game than morgan), we do however need a rotation player for Gana.  Those options are mccarthy (good but injured too easily/often) and beni.  give the young kid some minutes and see what he can do.  you'll never know if you don't try, we already know what mccarthy does/can do.  

[StevO]

15 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

he's a completely different player than morgan for starters, beni is more akin to gana in looking to intercept, and run forward with the ball to help the attack get going.  morgan sits back and lays the ball off, and just be a protector if you will.  we don't need one of those in Marco's system.  Gomes does that just fine (and adds more to other facets of the game than morgan), we do however need a rotation player for Gana.  Those options are mccarthy (good but injured too easily/often) and beni.  give the young kid some minutes and see what he can do.  you'll never know if you don't try, we already know what mccarthy does/can do.  

How much have you actually seen of Beni to think this?

if Beni and McCarthy are the only options to replace Gana, then what about Davies?

[Palfy]

I can’t see Beni getting on before Schneiderlin or Davies if either Gomes or Gana were out. 

Personally I’d like to see Besic back in the squad as cover for Gana and in this team I think he would excel. 

[StevO]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

I can’t see Beni getting on before Schneiderlin or Davies if either Gomes or Gana were out. 

Personally I’d like to see Besic back in the squad as cover for Gana and in this team I think he would excel. 

100% agree

100% disagree

[markjazzbassist]

1 hour ago, StevO said:

How much have you actually seen of Beni to think this?

if Beni and McCarthy are the only options to replace Gana, then what about Davies?

Every first team match he’s played in.  Davies is a gomes replacement.  I expect to see him if Gomes is still injured come the end of the break.

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

I can’t see Beni getting on before Schneiderlin or Davies if either Gomes or Gana were out. 

Personally I’d like to see Besic back in the squad as cover for Gana and in this team I think he would excel. 

Yep I want besic back too, I’ve always thought he could be a player and seems to be doing well for boro.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

On 13/11/2018 at 19:37, pete0 said:

I've watched Scott Gemmill every week before and even he was better. I've watched enough of Kante and the other players I named better than him previously. 

Thanks Pete I got as far as this stupid comment and realised the thread wasn’t worth bothering with, saved me the effort of reading the rest of the drivel

[StevO]

10 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

Every first team match he’s played in.  Davies is a gomes replacement.  I expect to see him if Gomes is still injured come the end of the break.

Maybe I’m just a harsher critic than you Mark, but I’ve not seen anything in Beni other than one impressive tackle to suggest he’s even close to competing for a first team place. 

[Hafnia]

How's about we just play a bit of player roulette and one week switch the focus to another player who is actually having a fuckin good season and find ways of discussing why he isn'tt the best in the world at his position. 

I mean.... I love Digne - superb signing. I reckon there is 2 things a match he may do wrong, same with Richarlison. 

In fact let's go one further.... at the end of each match post player stats.... pass completion, times dismissed, shots, interceptions, tackles key passes etc all ranked by player. I wouldn't mind doing it if we get a good stat site. 

[StevO]

Nothing stopping you posting all those stats mate. 

[Hafnia]

35 minutes ago, StevO said:

Nothing stopping you posting all those stats mate. 

The squawka site seems to have lost much of the player stats. 

[pete0]

Don't see how passing stats show anything. Remember people bragging about Kone having 100% one game, every pass was backwards! 

As Mourinho says, if you have the ball you're more likely to make a mistake. It's them mistakes that kill you. So who cares if you have a 99% pass rate when the other 1% is giving away clear cut chances.