Weirdness Abounds (or the Idrissa Gana Gueye Thread)

[Romey 1878]

 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Starting to look forward to his post match dance routines! Really does genuinely look happy to be home!

 

[Matt]

Wasn't his best game yesterday. Was it him that gave the ball away for their goal?

[Romey 1878]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Wasn't his best game yesterday. Was it him that gave the ball away for their goal?

It was.

[Palfy]

I thought he did alright to be honest we dominated the game in MF and the fact we did that without him having to run around headless for me proves that a Gana who is more focused and controlled in his duties is better for the team as a team, if not so eye catching for himself. 

[SpartyBlue]

6 hours ago, Matt said:

Wasn't his best game yesterday. Was it him that gave the ball away for their goal?

Was mixed. He had a couple of mistakes but was otherwise his normal tackling self. 

[StevO]

On 02/10/2022 at 11:27, Palfy said:

I thought he did alright to be honest we dominated the game in MF and the fact we did that without him having to run around headless for me proves that a Gana who is more focused and controlled in his duties is better for the team as a team, if not so eye catching for himself. 

No, no, no. 
It proves his old manager here wanted him to chase the ball, his current manager doesn’t. Surely that’s obvious to you now?

[Palfy]

55 minutes ago, StevO said:

No, no, no. 
It proves his old manager here wanted him to chase the ball, his current manager doesn’t. Surely that’s obvious to you now?

Thank fuck for new management

[StevO]

23 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Thank fuck for new management

Thank fuck we agree!

[Gwlad all over]

No wonder PeteO hasn't resurfaced.

[Hafnia]

10 hours ago, Gwlad all over said:

No wonder PeteO hasn't resurfaced.

What’s he and mjb up to? On another forum?

[Bailey]

He started well again yesterday but he faded badly and his recovery effort and concentration was shocking at times. 

[Romey 1878]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

He started well again yesterday but he faded badly and his recovery effort and concentration was shocking at times. 

Still a hell of a lot better than Onana.

[Elston Gunnn]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

He started well again yesterday but he faded badly and his recovery effort and concentration was shocking at times. 

21 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Still a hell of a lot better than Onana.

I’m in favor of dropping both Gana and Onana for the Palace match, and starting Garner and Davies or Doucouré.  Use Davies as DCM, Garner and Iwobi as ACMs.  If Doucouré rather than Davies, I’m not sure Doucouré is capable of sticking to a sitter/DCM role, as he’s a wanderer.  So if it were to be Doucouré and Garner, perhaps Garner sits and protects, allowing Doucouré and Iwobi to attack.  Both Iwobi and Doucouré are energetic enough to defend, too.

Re Gana/Onana, I’m a bit more hopeful that Onana will come good as the season progresses.  I worry that Gana thinks he’s a box-to-box player, and even more worried that Lampard thinks that, too.

Although Gana seems somewhat less likely than in his previous years at Everton to run all over the pitch, he still ventures too far forward, even though as an attacker he has few skills, and when too far forward is out of position as DCM.  He should sit and protect the back 4, only rarely venturing forward much past midfield.  He needs to do fewer things, and concentrate a helluva lot more on taking few risks and protecting the back 4, not to mention protecting the ball.

[Bailey]

8 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Still a hell of a lot better than Onana.

I think they are both much of a muchness but at least Onana has a bit of an excuse of being younger and new to the league. 

As a new dynamic midfield, it isn't really working out how we had hoped.

[Elston Gunnn]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

As a new dynamic midfield, it isn't really working out how we had hoped.

Yes, pretty frustrating just now.  Not as bad as our “strikeforce,” but hardly dynamic, either.  Iwobi’s done the best, obviously.

I prefer Lampard keep Iwobi, but replace the 2 underperformers with Garner and either Davies or Doucouré.  We need hungry players in midfield on Saturday.  And competence in the front 3.

[StevO]

Back to his usual self today, like a few of his team mates. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

On 20/10/2022 at 09:50, Elston Gunnn said:

I’m in favor of dropping both Gana and Onana for the Palace match, and starting Garner and Davies or Doucouré.  Use Davies as DCM, Garner and Iwobi as ACMs.  If Doucouré rather than Davies, I’m not sure Doucouré is capable of sticking to a sitter/DCM role, as he’s a wanderer.  So if it were to be Doucouré and Garner, perhaps Garner sits and protects, allowing Doucouré and Iwobi to attack.  Both Iwobi and Doucouré are energetic enough to defend, too.

Re Gana/Onana, I’m a bit more hopeful that Onana will come good as the season progresses.  I worry that Gana thinks he’s a box-to-box player, and even more worried that Lampard thinks that, too.

Although Gana seems somewhat less likely than in his previous years at Everton to run all over the pitch, he still ventures too far forward, even though as an attacker he has few skills, and when too far forward is out of position as DCM.  He should sit and protect the back 4, only rarely venturing forward much past midfield.  He needs to do fewer things, and concentrate a helluva lot more on taking few risks and protecting the back 4, not to mention protecting the ball.

Isn’t hindsight a wonderful thing !

[Elston Gunnn]

1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Isn’t hindsight a wonderful thing !

It’s possible Lampard knows more than I.  Understand, I’m not conceding he does, just admitting the possibility.

I will continue to fret each time Gana Gueye acts the ACM rather than the DCM, and will continue to (1) curse the heavens each time he advances even so much as one step ahead of Iwobi/Onana, and (2) advise Frank both pre- and in-match.

I do like Frank and will not, should our boys lay an egg in some upcoming match, call for his head, nor even utter the phrase, “Frank’s lost the plot.”

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/it-hurt-me-idrissa-gueye-25416160

[Elston Gunnn]

Gana Gueye is playing ACM for Senegal today v. Netherlands.  Also taking their free kicks; not so good.  I don’t know ......

[Elston Gunnn]

I have been a Gana Gueye critic, and pretty regularly these days, but I will credit him with a cracker of a strike attempt from outside the box.  Netherlands goalie had to make an excellent parry.

[Palfy]

I noticed Gana had a fair few motm votes, he did catch the eye a few times, both positive and negative, whilst I wholeheartedly appreciate his positives in the game, I can't discount his negatives of 2-3 very poor back passes that if we were playing a half decent team could have easily resulted in goals, therefore for those reasons I could no way brush them under the carpet and give him motm, if he hadn't made those poor errors then I would have definitely considered him. 

[Wiggytop]

I thought he had generally a good game, after the bad start with a horrible back pass, as we know he has errors in him and I always think there’s one coming. He did do some excellent shielding of the ball yesterday, maybe he will shine under Sean.

[Goodison Glory]

He also nutmegged someone in the box and then laid a perfect cut back for Onana.

[Bailey]

Whenever I was able to concentrate on the game, he was everywhere. It was a really positive performance and sure, it wasn't perfect but his energy, along with that of Onana and Doucoure, was key to the result.

[Romey 1878]

I'm ecstatic that Dyche shamed the moron for his fuck up by subbing him at half time. I hope he tore him to shreds in front of the team when he explained to him that he wouldn't be appearing for the second half as well.

A player of his experience fucking daydreaming that close to his own penalty area is unacceptable. 

[Shukes]

Agree. It was literally what we train kids football. Keeping playing and let the red decide when to stop. Absolute playground stuff.

[Palfy]

Dyche will learn the hard way that you don't want Gana anywhere near the penalty area in possession of the ball, or challenging for the ball in or around the penalty box. He is the most dangerous player on the pitch when in possession of the ball, not to the opposition but to his own team.

[RPG]

It will be interesting to see how Dyche sets us up v Forest this Sunday. Normally I would say that Gueye would be a certain starter but I just wonder if Dyche might try Holgate or even Godfrey in the DM role. He could drop Gueye to the bench, then bring him on at half time after Holgate or Godfrey have stuffed up!

[Shukes]

Dyche isn’t stupid. 
He saw what happened on that match. 40 minute’s of competition be away to the leagues leaders. 
Schoolboy mistake and pulled off. Total collapse.

He will be playing Sunday. 

[RPG]

43 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Dyche isn’t stupid. 
He saw what happened on that match. 40 minute’s of competition be away to the leagues leaders. 
Schoolboy mistake and pulled off. Total collapse.

He will be playing Sunday. 

I hope you are correct and that Gueye hasn't spat the dummy at being (quite rightly) subbed at half time.

On his day he is a real asset to the team but we can't afford any more cock ups like the last one from him.

[Hafnia]

4 hours ago, Shukes said:

Dyche isn’t stupid. 
He saw what happened on that match. 40 minute’s of competition be away to the leagues leaders. 
Schoolboy mistake and pulled off. Total collapse.

He will be playing Sunday. 

For dyche to take a player off at half time says “I’m fucking fuming with you”.

The collapse had nothing to do with gana being off the pitch, it was because his blunder when he was on it completely took the gas out of us. 
 

I would play James Garner on Sunday with Doucoure and Onana. 

[Shukes]

6 hours ago, RPG said:

I hope you are correct and that Gueye hasn't spat the dummy at being (quite rightly) subbed at half time.

On his day he is a real asset to the team but we can't afford any more cock ups like the last one from him.

I never thought of that to be honest. If he has after that, then I agree completely he should be dropped. I would like to think that being a senior player he would take it and own it, but you just don’t know with pro footballers anymore.

[Shukes]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

For dyche to take a player off at half time says “I’m fucking fuming with you”.

The collapse had nothing to do with gana being off the pitch, it was because his blunder when he was on it completely took the gas out of us. 
 

I would play James Garner on Sunday with Doucoure and Onana. 

It started from his mistake of course, but it definitely did make an impact on the rest of the game. That second half wasn’t a couple of brain farts, it was us hanging on for dear life. We looked lambs to the slaughter. The only shock was they didn’t score more goals.

If you’re right and that goal destroyed us completely…. Then we have much deeper problems than we could have ever imagined.

[plaidharper]

3 hours ago, Hafnia said:

For dyche to take a player off at half time says “I’m fucking fuming with you”.

The collapse had nothing to do with gana being off the pitch, it was because his blunder when he was on it completely took the gas out of us. 
 

I would play James Garner on Sunday with Doucoure and Onana. 

Is he ready though? Anyone watch the u21 game?  All I know is the scoreline and it was a 3-0 loss.  

[Romey 1878]

48 minutes ago, plaidharper said:

Is he ready though? Anyone watch the u21 game?  All I know is the scoreline and it was a 3-0 loss.  

He played 70 odd minutes and Dyche said he's very close to a first team return now.

Probably be on the bench Sunday I reckon.

[Hafnia]

3 hours ago, Shukes said:

It started from his mistake of course, but it definitely did make an impact on the rest of the game. That second half wasn’t a couple of brain farts, it was us hanging on for dear life. We looked lambs to the slaughter. The only shock was they didn’t score more goals.

If you’re right and that goal destroyed us completely…. Then we have much deeper problems than we could have ever imagined.

That has been a long standing issue, we seen that bs Brighton, we seen it vs Villa, we seen it vs Liverpool. 

[Palfy]

12 hours ago, Shukes said:

Dyche isn’t stupid. 
He saw what happened on that match. 40 minute’s of competition be away to the leagues leaders. 
Schoolboy mistake and pulled off. Total collapse.

He will be playing Sunday. 

Better players were pulled in that 2nd half than him, as Dyche said today at 2-0 the game was over so he threw players on to try something different. We didn't calapse 2nd half just because he was subbed, his end of his 1st half fuck up had more to do with the calapse than anything else, every player's head went down after that calamitous piece of shit I was going to say football but that would be stretching it a bit. Dyche also noted today about his penalty the game before, I have a feeling that Dyche doesn't like what he's seeing with Gana. 

[Shukes]

14 hours ago, Palfy said:

Better players were pulled in that 2nd half than him, as Dyche said today at 2-0 the game was over so he threw players on to try something different. We didn't calapse 2nd half just because he was subbed, his end of his 1st half fuck up had more to do with the calapse than anything else, every player's head went down after that calamitous piece of shit I was going to say football but that would be stretching it a bit. Dyche also noted today about his penalty the game before, I have a feeling that Dyche doesn't like what he's seeing with Gana. 

If you and Haf are right, then the whole first team needs to be dropped. You’re basically saying they are a bunch of school kids. How we can believe that professional players will give up before half time being 0-2 down to the premier league leaders is beyond me. They even went in for a half time team talk and you two are suggesting that Dyche totally destroyed their confidence rather than motivated them. 
 

It’s absolutely dumbfounding. Yet your suggesting that these same players that fell apart because Gana made a mistake, should be playing ahead of him. I k ow none of us are professional football managers…. But bloody hell were more than armchair supporters haha.
 

Is this why Gana hasn’t played many minutes for Dyche? Can’t be because he is simply putting the same team out can it, as his first move was to put Gray on the bench and hardly play him. 
 

Gana deserves to go off, that was an absolute disgusting mistake. But it definitely had an impact on the second half as they went through us at will. I know Gana isn’t some people’s favourite player…. But this thread can be absolutely baffling sometimes. 

[Hafnia]

2 hours ago, Shukes said:

If you and Haf are right, then the whole first team needs to be dropped. You’re basically saying they are a bunch of school kids. How we can believe that professional players will give up before half time being 0-2 down to the premier league leaders is beyond me. They even went in for a half time team talk and you two are suggesting that Dyche totally destroyed their confidence rather than motivated them. 
 

It’s absolutely dumbfounding. Yet your suggesting that these same players that fell apart because Gana made a mistake, should be playing ahead of him. I k ow none of us are professional football managers…. But bloody hell were more than armchair supporters haha.
 

Is this why Gana hasn’t played many minutes for Dyche? Can’t be because he is simply putting the same team out can it, as his first move was to put Gray on the bench and hardly play him. 
 

Gana deserves to go off, that was an absolute disgusting mistake. But it definitely had an impact on the second half as they went through us at will. I know Gana isn’t some people’s favourite player…. But this thread can be absolutely baffling sometimes. 

You trying to tell me that you can’t see the difference in the intensity from the first 40 minutes to the second 40? The other night? Wasn’t anything to do with a player it was the overall application. 
 

to me it’s night and day, some fans can get kidded by the “going through the motions” where they close players down with no intention of winning the ball but to make the player pass, and when all players do that the opposing team looks like Real Madrid. 

I can name games right now - west Han away, Liverpool away, Brighton home, Southampton home, arsenal away, Villa home. 
 

tell me you didn’t see the noted drop off after we went behind?  The players are mentally weak, they won’t take shots, play safe passes and basically hide. 

[Shukes]

51 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

You trying to tell me that you can’t see the difference in the intensity from the first 40 minutes to the second 40? The other night? Wasn’t anything to do with a player it was the overall application. 
 

to me it’s night and day, some fans can get kidded by the “going through the motions” where they close players down with no intention of winning the ball but to make the player pass, and when all players do that the opposing team looks like Real Madrid. 

I can name games right now - west Han away, Liverpool away, Brighton home, Southampton home, arsenal away, Villa home. 
 

tell me you didn’t see the noted drop off after we went behind?  The players are mentally weak, they won’t take shots, play safe passes and basically hide. 

I’m telling you exactly that Haf. It was night and day the difference between the first and second. 
 

First 40 we were actually giving them a game. Second we were absolutely dismantled. 
My only point Haf is that Gana is by far not our biggest problem. He went off and deserving to. But it was obvious the hole it left without him. I’m just struggling to see how it’s not obvious that’s all. 
 

Undoubtedly the players dropped off as well, but a lot of that was because they didn’t have that protection. 
 

Funny but as I type, the right hand panel is showing the leading stats in the premier league on SSN, and Gana is top for interceptions. 

[Shukes]

I agree with what you’re saying Haf, just not that it’s all because of Gana’s mistake. 
I don’t think that mistake suddenly destroys players. Not professional players.

[Palfy]

28 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I’m telling you exactly that Haf. It was night and day the difference between the first and second. 
 

First 40 we were actually giving them a game. Second we were absolutely dismantled. 
My only point Haf is that Gana is by far not our biggest problem. He went off and deserving to. But it was obvious the hole it left without him. I’m just struggling to see how it’s not obvious that’s all. 
 

Undoubtedly the players dropped off as well, but a lot of that was because they didn’t have that protection. 
 

Funny but as I type, the right hand panel is showing the leading stats in the premier league on SSN, and Gana is top for interceptions. 

But you were saying our poor 2nd half was because Gana was taken off, I'm saying that isn't the case, in Dyche's own words he said the game was pretty much gone at 2-0, which afforded him the opportunity to make changes and experiment with a few things.  So what if Gana is top for interceptions that doesn't excuse him for giving away 2 goals in his last 2 games and costing us any chance of getting something from those games. I haven't been bashing Gana at all really since his return I have given him the benefit of the doubt, but lately he has shown all his bad faults from the last time he was here. And to top it off our best player of last season in the middle of the park has been switched to right wing which has completely nullified his game so Gana can be fitted in, which has done the team no favours at all. If he is fortunate to start tomorrow I hope to fuck he doesn't need to make a tackle in the box or has to much possession near our goal But apart from that he's doing an amazing job. 

[Hafnia]

2 hours ago, Shukes said:

I’m telling you exactly that Haf. It was night and day the difference between the first and second. 
 

First 40 we were actually giving them a game. Second we were absolutely dismantled. 
My only point Haf is that Gana is by far not our biggest problem. He went off and deserving to. But it was obvious the hole it left without him. I’m just struggling to see how it’s not obvious that’s all. 
 

Undoubtedly the players dropped off as well, but a lot of that was because they didn’t have that protection. 
 

Funny but as I type, the right hand panel is showing the leading stats in the premier league on SSN, and Gana is top for interceptions. 

He may well lead interceptions but I would guess he’s also leading on errors leading to goals,whatever the criteria is some of them have been unacceptable from an experienced player. 
 

im a big gana fan but I have serious concerns over his focus 

[Shukes]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

But you were saying our poor 2nd half was because Gana was taken off, I'm saying that isn't the case, in Dyche's own words he said the game was pretty much gone at 2-0, which afforded him the opportunity to make changes and experiment with a few things.  So what if Gana is top for interceptions that doesn't excuse him for giving away 2 goals in his last 2 games and costing us any chance of getting something from those games. I haven't been bashing Gana at all really since his return I have given him the benefit of the doubt, but lately he has shown all his bad faults from the last time he was here. And to top it off our best player of last season in the middle of the park has been switched to right wing which has completely nullified his game so Gana can be fitted in, which has done the team no favours at all. If he is fortunate to start tomorrow I hope to fuck he doesn't need to make a tackle in the box or has to much possession near our goal But apart from that he's doing an amazing job. 

Palf you’ve been quiet as he’s been getting MoM votes haha. 
 

Everyone else here is reading my comments as well and I shouldn’t need to point out that I’m pretty much every single post, I have said that the mistake was unacceptable and that it was a schoolboy error. 
 

For me it was clear as day the change with a gaping hole in the middle of the park…. One that is normally filled by him, and that in the first half made us competitive. He went off and we didn’t just look a little worse…. We were completely dismantled. 
It’s not 100% him being taken off, of course not. But it was blatantly obvious the hole that was left. 

But maybe some didn’t see the hole and thought we were more organised without him

[Shukes]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

He may well lead interceptions but I would guess he’s also leading on errors leading to goals,whatever the criteria is some of them have been unacceptable from an experienced player. 
 

im a big gana fan but I have serious concerns over his focus 

That I can agree with Haf. I’m have the same reservations over him. 

[Shukes]

I know poor Gana feels. Proper bully’s you two are!

[Bailey]

I think he was mainly at fault for their first goal again today. He was out of position, he is meant to pick the players that drop deep, he doesnt react at all and when Keane has no other option but to go and close him, he doesn't fill in behind him. 

When the ball and threat is in front of him he is great but his focus on what is around him is really poor.

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

I think he was mainly at fault for their first goal again today. He was out of position, he is meant to pick the players that drop deep, he doesnt react at all and when Keane has no other option but to go and close him, he doesn't fill in behind him. 

When the ball and threat is in front of him he is great but his focus on what is around him is really poor.

Didn't see the first half, but caught the second I thought he played one of his better games second half, he made a couple of poor passes that got picked off but I think we are always going to get that from him, luckily they didn't cause any damage. The one thing I found frustrating was when he manufactured a great move and found himself in their box and failed to do the easy bit and square the ball to I think it was Gray, instead he fluffs his lines and concedes easy possession back to them and we miss a golden opportunity, so frustrating from a player of his age and experience that he can't execute the simple things. But besides that amazing  

[Bailey]

3 hours ago, Palfy said:

Didn't see the first half, but caught the second I thought he played one of his better games second half, he made a couple of poor passes that got picked off but I think we are always going to get that from him, luckily they didn't cause any damage. The one thing I found frustrating was when he manufactured a great move and found himself in their box and failed to do the easy bit and square the ball to I think it was Gray, instead he fluffs his lines and concedes easy possession back to them and we miss a golden opportunity, so frustrating from a player of his age and experience that he can't execute the simple things. But besides that amazing  

Yeh I think he did play well on the whole and did lots of good things but he just switches off and he isnt learning. He lost the ball in a bad position again but got away with it as the ref gave us a dodgy foul. 

A player of his experience has to do better.

[Hafnia]

9 hours ago, Bailey said:

Yeh I think he did play well on the whole and did lots of good things but he just switches off and he isnt learning. He lost the ball in a bad position again but got away with it as the ref gave us a dodgy foul. 

A player of his experience has to do better.

Was that when he tried a tame cross? 

[Bailey]

On 06/03/2023 at 08:04, Hafnia said:

Was that when he tried a tame cross? 

No it was really deep in our half and would have put us into the same type of position Doucoure put us into for their equaliser.

 

[Hafnia]

4 hours ago, Bailey said:

No it was really deep in our half and would have put us into the same type of position Doucoure put us into for their equaliser.

 

There was too much of that. Passing through opposing players close to feet 

[patto]

23 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

There was too much of that. Passing through opposing players close to feet 

I’m more concerned about Onana he’s been terrible for weeks 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Now racked up 100 caps for his country, whatever you think of him that’s a great achievement 

https://tbrfootball.com/sadio-mane-sends-message-to-everton-midfielder-idrissa-gueye-after-senegal-achievement/