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Liverpool Derby (Away) Saturday April 1st


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Again Mirallas linking play in a way that DCL can't yet.   I think DCL has a great future ahead of him but it's madness to start him ahead of Mirallas in such a big game.

Hell this Barkley fellow was hot today - exactly what England is missing in their midfield at the moment. What a player. If only he had better players around him. Really a player to build a team aroun

We'll still be able to start the game with 11 men you know .

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Really disappointed with the lads today. They really shot themselves down. No where near the levels they have reached recently.

 

Too many loose touches, loose passes, bad tackles. Poor movement. Poor positioning. We beat ourselves. Liverpool just finished us off.

 

We choked. Simple as that, we choked.

All of this.

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Bad today, very bad, and a referee at their place has done us at least a couple of favours. Bizarre.

 

They didn't play amazing by any stretch but we didnt force them too, its similar to the spurs game away where we have started off the game as if waiting to see how good the opposition are playing before finding our feet, too late again.

 

Fans will point to Coleman and Schneiderlin being out, but that doesnt explain why Lukaku and especially Barkley played so woefully, Mirallas is made for these types of games yet barely gets a sniff, cant fault Robles today, bad day at the office and we'll do well to keep clear in seventh.

 

Poor!

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Ah right.... ok fair enough Rom. I excuse you from not bothering to jump with lovren for any headers or to even go shoulder to shoulder with him.

 

As for closing the defenders down dont worry about that either- you just wait for the other 10 lads to sort their shit out.

 

Very much Belgium vs Italy for me this.... very much.

He did and he did it often.

 

I'm not saying Lukaku is running round the pitch chasing the ball and I wouldn't want him to but when you have one of the best finishers in the league and you can't provide him with one chance, not even a half chance then that tells you what you need to know. Every time he doesn't get get a kick you come on here like a keyboard warrior blaming him for everything.

 

No one here is saying he played well but you single him out as if he is the one costing us the game when he could have been playing for another 2 days and the team wouldn't create anything for him to feed off.

 

The truth is we don't create many chances and without Lukaku putting them away we would have far less points that we have now.

 

On the other hand we leave Origi 1 v 1 on half a dozen occasions because we are all over the place.

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Jags and Holgate can come out of it with a bit of pride. The others were a waste of space.

 

I don't even know where Joel was today but he wasn't in goal.

 

Felt sorry for Pennington being thrown in if I'm honest. Holgate should've been as part of the three if that was the way we were going.

 

Williams would've been a great clown at a kids birthday party today. Oh and thanks for getting yourself a definite ban when we've got defensive problems. Dick head.

 

Baines was ok.

 

Davies was very poor. He offered nothing next to Gana other than being embarrassingly easy to get around.

 

Gana was shit himself like. Offered zero protection for the defence. Up there with his worst games for us.

 

Barkley... I thought Derby games meant more to scousers? We should check his birth certificate after that abject showing.

 

DCL tried hard but he just wasn't up to it. Not enough ability at this moment in time and nowhere near enough strength.

 

Lukaku had less than nothing to work with but when that's the case he has to do more for himself. He didn't.

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Manager got it wrong today massively

 

To big a game too soon for Pennington, we should have started with a back four and Barry sat in front and Lookman and Kev on either side to spread their midfield

 

Typically piss poor performance but I'll give Holgate his due he held his own as did Gana for the majority of the game

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Jags and Holgate can come out of it with a bit of pride. The others were a waste of space.

 

I don't even know where Joel was today but he wasn't in goal.

 

Felt sorry for Pennington being thrown in if I'm honest. Holgate should've been as part of the three if that was the way we were going.

 

Williams would've been a great clown at a kids birthday party today. Oh and thanks for getting yourself a definite ban when we've got defensive problems. Dick head.

 

Baines was ok.

 

Davies was very poor. He offered nothing next to Gana other than being embarrassingly easy to get around.

 

Gana was shit himself like. Offered zero protection for the defence. Up there with his worst games for us.

 

Barkley... I thought Derby games meant more to scousers? We should check his birth certificate after that abject showing.

 

DCL tried hard but he just wasn't up to it. Not enough ability at this moment in time and nowhere near enough strength.

 

Lukaku had less than nothing to work with but when that's the case he has to do more for himself. He didn't.

We must have seen a different game in some cases. Jags was terrible today. All over the place until the switch to a back 4.

 

Davies was probably my MOTM, he seemed to be the only one able to get his foot in and make a pass after it. Always available for a pass when others were standing round watching the ball.

 

I don't know what else you expected Joel to do though. Made a great save for the only one he could get to.

 

The rest I agree with.

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He did and he did it often.

 

I'm not saying Lukaku is running round the pitch chasing the ball and I wouldn't want him to but when you have one of the best finishers in the league and you can't provide him with one chance, not even a half chance then that tells you what you need to know. Every time he doesn't get get a kick you come on here like a keyboard warrior blaming him for everything.

 

No one here is saying he played well but you single him out as if he is the one costing us the game when he could have been playing for another 2 days and the team wouldn't create anything for him to feed off.

 

The truth is we don't create many chances and without Lukaku putting them away we would have far less points that we have now.

 

On the other hand we leave Origi 1 v 1 on half a dozen occasions because we are all over the place.

He did FUCK ALL.... I'm not being a keyboard warrior - i know forward play above any other play in the game. Don't tell me black is white - he was a fucking fraud today - a fraud.

 

I have never in my time as Evertonian seen a player get so much praise whilst getting so much leeway for nothing other than what I call downright laziness.

 

You are effectively telling me that unless the team provide him clear chances then we are not to expect him to offer anything from him? Sorry - absolute bollocks. He allowed lovren to win nearly every single 50/50 ball. He wasn't marked by 3 - he was in lovrens pocket the whole game.

 

Koeman on TV right now talking absolute shite.

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That's not what I said Haf but are you telling me that a striker is playing for a functional team when he isn't able to get a single shot away. Simple question and only requires a simple answer.

 

Could Lukaku have done more, of course he could. Could the rest of the team done a lot more, of course they fucking could. Once you realise that one has a big effect on the other maybe you realise that Lukaku is only as good as the team he plays in. He isn't Suarez, he isn't Messi. He is a bloody good finisher with a good all round game, better in some areas than others. Today he did exactly what I would have expected him to do considering the performance of those around him.

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Don't get Koeman's post match interview at all. Proud of what? Liverpool, especially at Anfield, has become a massive monkey on our back. We go into the games too pumped up, too tense, we let the emotion take over, and we lose. We were second best today in every aspect, headless chickens with the ball, crap at the back. So no, nothing to be proud of I'm afraid.

 

This has become a huge problem for us. Based on current form, that was an aberration of a performance. After one defeat in ten, there is no explanation for how poor we were apart from the fact that we have a huge mental issue playing Liverpool.

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Hell this Barkley fellow was hot today - exactly what England is missing in their midfield at the moment. What a player. If only he had better players around him. Really a player to build a team around for the future. I am sure most Everton fans will agree.

Sideliner is to Barkley as Hafnia is to Lukaku as Shy_Talk is to Liberals.

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That's not what I said Haf but are you telling me that a striker is playing for a functional team when he isn't able to get a single shot away. Simple question and only requires a simple answer.

 

Could Lukaku have done more, of course he could. Could the rest of the team done a lot more, of course they fucking could. Once you realise that one has a big effect on the other maybe you realise that Lukaku is only as good as the team he plays in. He isn't Suarez, he isn't Messi. He is a bloody good finisher with a good all round game, better in some areas than others. Today he did exactly what I would have expected him to do considering the performance of those around him.

I'm content enough in my views that carragher and souness effectively stated everything I did.

 

Carragher:- "you can't score every game but even if you don't then make a difference... he didn't do that. Drogba had games where chances were few but he bullied defences. Lukaku shouldn't be bullied and today he was"

 

Souness:- "a player his size should come off the pitch 50/50 at worst... today he was 90/10 beaten at best. Lovren dominated him. He needed to help his team out today and take the pressure off the midfield and defence.... he didn't."

 

Peter Reid completely agreed.

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It's hard for fans to admit but there's an inferiority complex about us against Liverpool. They go into games wanting to beat us, we go in desperate. It is painful to watch because they have the upper hand before a ball is kicked. The only way we're going to break this run is take the emotion out of derby games. Forget the history, forget the local rivalry, forget the fans. Treat it coldly as just another game and, at Anfield, set out first and foremost to frustrate them. Going in flying into tackles from the off trying to play at 110 miles an hour just plays into their hands every time.

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It's hard for fans to admit but there's an inferiority complex about us against Liverpool. They go into games wanting to beat us, we go in desperate. It is painful to watch because they have the upper hand before a ball is kicked. The only way we're going to break this run is take the emotion out of derby games. Forget the history, forget the local rivalry, forget the fans. Treat it coldly as just another game and, at Anfield, set out first and foremost to frustrate them. Going in flying into tackles from the off trying to play at 110 miles an hour just plays into their hands every time.

Exactly. ???

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Where is MOM?

 

Sorry about that, I went out shopping before the end of the match (more enjoyable). I'd done the thread pre KO but it was "hidden" so I needed to unhide it which I forgot to do; and I left my phone at home so couldn't do it from there either.

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Didn't get to see it, sounds like a lucky escape.

When I saw the line up my first reaction was shite we're gonna get battered.

Obviously a catalogue of injuries have scuppered our chances, but Koeman could have made a lot better choices with the players he still had at his disposal, as some of you lads have pointed out, for that reason it still concerns me that in adverse times he struggles to see the obvious.

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The two players we really missed today were McCarthy (to put some fire in the team) and Funes Mori (sad we recognize this only when he's not there). Schneiderlin would have brought confidence, too.

 

I agree that Mirallas should have played for at least the entire second half if not the whole game. Also, I stick to my opinion that Lookman would have been a better starter than DC-L. Koeman completely bottled this game, as he did some earlier games. We need to play with confidence instead of showing so much respect. This Liverpool team is very beatable.

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Not much to be said about the game tbh, i think it just showed how desperate we are for some other options during the summer window. Our first eleven is fine but as soon as we get a few injuries we have nothing to come in and replace them. Also i don't think Gana looks anywhere near the player he was earlier on in the season.

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Again Mirallas linking play in a way that DCL can't yet.

 

I think DCL has a great future ahead of him but it's madness to start him ahead of Mirallas in such a big game.

Agree. DCL looks the real deal, but is still learning.

Today was set up for Mirralas.

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Why are you debating his?

 

Lukaku was shit.

It wasn't that he didn't get service. You can still play well without service, it's what top forwards do.

 

Rom was shit today, real shit.

DCL had no service, but managed to cause trouble.

 

When he plays well... give him credit.

When he is shit..... let him know.

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Abysmal. Everyone but Gana really.

Thought he was pretty poor myself. Did a lot of running around, but was also out of control with the ball and without. Played some bad passes, made some bad attempts at tackles. I think (like Ross) that a lot of this had to do with our general lack of organization and poor tactics. But, he contributed to it too.

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Thought he was pretty poor myself. Did a lot of running around, but was also out of control with the ball and without. Played some bad passes, made some bad attempts at tackles. I think (like Ross) that a lot of this had to do with our general lack of organization and poor tactics. But, he contributed to it too.

Absolutely awful i'd question if anyone thought he done well watched the match. You only have to look at the 2 goals and he quite clearly didn't do his job of shielding the defence he got torn apart by Coutinho.

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Lukaku was dire I can't see why that would even be debated, a world class forward or nigh on should be able to create chances when the ball is at his feet in or around the box Lukaku doesn't do that often

 

Players of Mane's ilk create far more problems more often as they have that footballing ability (Haf's point) absolutley fantastic finisher with a down tools mentallity imo

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Guest rusty747

Awful performance, brought about by a genetic inferiority complex whenever we play the rs, injuries, lack of strength in depth and poor utilisation of our remaining resources by Koeman. Undoubtedly we have to get busy in the summer transfer window but let's not give up on this season just yet. Man U dropped points today and if Arsenal fail to beat Man C tomorrow (likely) then a win at OT on Tuesday night puts us fifth.

 

Ok, we will have played more games than Arsenal and Man U and we don't have the easiest of run ins but lets not throw it all away because of a bad derby performance. There will be some strange results between now and the end of the season - Chelsea just got beat at home by Palace. Maybe a tricky run in might actually be a good thing.

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Hell this Barkley fellow was hot today - exactly what England is missing in their midfield at the moment. What a player. If only he had better players around him. Really a player to build a team around for the future. I am sure most Everton fans will agree.

You only come on hear to slag off Barkley. Fair enough he was poor in the second half, but at lest try and be objective .

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Awful performance, brought about by a genetic inferiority complex whenever we play the rs, injuries, lack of strength in depth and poor utilisation of our remaining resources by Koeman. Undoubtedly we have to get busy in the summer transfer window but let's not give up on this season just yet. Man U dropped points today and if Arsenal fail to beat Man C tomorrow (likely) then a win at OT on Tuesday night puts us fifth.

 

Ok, we will have played more games than Arsenal and Man U and we don't have the easiest of run ins but lets not throw it all away because of a bad derby performance. There will be some strange results between now and the end of the season - Chelsea just got beat at home by Palace. Maybe a tricky run in might actually be a good thing.

I'm with you rusty it's one result move on and go all out against united. Come on you blues

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I thought Ron's starting lineup was largely driven by who was out injured. I can't criticize him too much for that as two absolute critical players were out (Coleman and Schneiderlin). That said, he probably should have made the change to a back four at half time as it was obvious that it wasn't working. I was disappointed that they boys played right into their hands--Liverpool makes its living by converting midfield turnovers into goals and the third goal was such a bad giveaway. Anytime an EPL player gets a clear run on goal from the center top of the box, it's going to go in.

 

Ross and Lukaku were the most disappointing players. For Rom, this is the match that you need to boss if you want to play in the Champions League. It always drives me crazy when players talk about wanting to play in the Champions League--like, you have some control over that no? Play your absolute best against the absolute best and you can qualify your team. I don't think Rom would tell you he was at his best today.

Ross looked like Ross under Roberto. Trying to hard, over dribbling and taking heavy touches--all of it was there today. That is the mark of a player wound too tightly. It's a balancing act for a manager. You've got to get the boys up to play but not too up. I hope this is just a blip for Ross. He's been really good in the back half of this campaign but today was a setback.

 

Lot's of blame to go around today but think--Mingolet makes the only save he's made all season and we had a soft turnover that led to the 3rd goal. It's wishful thinking but that the margin between 3-1 and 2-2. So maybe it's not as bad as it seemed. /grasps at straws

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I thought Ron's starting lineup was largely driven by who was out injured. I can't criticize him too much for that as two absolute critical players were out (Coleman and Schneiderlin). That said, he probably should have made the change to a back four at half time as it was obvious that it wasn't working. I was disappointed that they boys played right into their hands--Liverpool makes its living by converting midfield turnovers into goals and the third goal was such a bad giveaway. Anytime an EPL player gets a clear run on goal from the center top of the box, it's going to go in.

 

Ross and Lukaku were the most disappointing players. For Rom, this is the match that you need to boss if you want to play in the Champions League. It always drives me crazy when players talk about wanting to play in the Champions League--like, you have some control over that no? Play your absolute best against the absolute best and you can qualify your team. I don't think Rom would tell you he was at his best today.

 

Ross looked like Ross under Roberto. Trying to hard, over dribbling and taking heavy touches--all of it was there today. That is the mark of a player wound too tightly. It's a balancing act for a manager. You've got to get the boys up to play but not too up. I hope this is just a blip for Ross. He's been really good in the back half of this campaign but today was a setback.

 

Lot's of blame to go around today but think--Mingolet makes the only save he's made all season and we had a soft turnover that led to the 3rd goal. It's wishful thinking but that the margin between 3-1 and 2-2. So maybe it's not as bad as it seemed. /grasps at straws

 

I really don't see how a striker of any quality can be expected to "boss" a game if he has zero service; what's he supposed to do? Go get the ball off Joel, dribble the length of the pitch and tap home a couple I guess, easy.

Just as a matter of interest (which I've not seen mentioned in here) what about the penalty we should've had first half. Summeriser on Sky, can't remember who it was, reckoned it was stonewall and they've certainly been given.

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I really don't see how a striker of any quality can be expected to "boss" a game if he has zero service; what's he supposed to do? Go get the ball off Joel, dribble the length of the pitch and tap home a couple I guess, easy.

Just as a matter of interest (which I've not seen mentioned in here) what about the penalty we should've had first half. Summeriser on Sky, can't remember who it was, reckoned it was stonewall and they've certainly been given.

If I remember rightly it hit Can in the wall from our freekick. Arm was across his chest. If the arm wasn't there it would have hit him in the chest. I can see why it wasn't given.

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I really don't see how a striker of any quality can be expected to "boss" a game if he has zero service; what's he supposed to do? Go get the ball off Joel, dribble the length of the pitch and tap home a couple I guess, easy.

Just as a matter of interest (which I've not seen mentioned in here) what about the penalty we should've had first half. Summeriser on Sky, can't remember who it was, reckoned it was stonewall and they've certainly been given.

 

It's a fair point. He didn't have a lot of help, but I think he has to find a way to be more assertive in a match that isn't going his way. Even an average striker is going to be good when he gets good service. If he wants to be one of the best in the world, and I think he can be, he'll need to figure a way to impact the games like this one.

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Being beaten is one thing, being beaten in a derby is worse. being beaten badly after playing poorly in a derby sucks big time.

 

BUT playing poorly and playing so dirty left me ashamed a cold towards the entire team and manager. Maybe it is just me but I can't help it. I just feel that way.

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I still can't get my head around our starting defence. It's not even hindsight because I was sat there when the line-up was announced wondering what the hell Koeman was thinking! Holgate has played, and looked good, in a back 3 a few times for us this season so he should have been the one to play in the three with Williams and Jags. I'm a huge fan of Pennington but to throw him in like that, especially when it wasn't even necessary and he's not long returned from a long injury, was just cruel. Kenny, being a right back, would have been the much more logical player to have as the right wing-back.

 

I just feel it's another game Koeman has given away before a ball had even been kicked.

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The players are too emotionally invested in the derby. It leads to mistakes. As soon as they start seeing the derby as just another fixture then the sooner we will start getting results.

 

Liverpool are nothing special, they don't have a magical voodoo doll over us. We beat ourselves every time.

And at the same time Liverpool have moved past the derby mentality. Their players don't look at us as anything other than another step.

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I still can't get my head around our starting defence. It's not even hindsight because I was sat there when the line-up was announced wondering what the hell Koeman was thinking! Holgate has played, and looked good, in a back 3 a few times for us this season so he should have been the one to play in the three with Williams and Jags. I'm a huge fan of Pennington but to throw him in like that, especially when it wasn't even necessary and he's not long returned from a long injury, was just cruel. Kenny, being a right back, would have been the much more logical player to have as the right wing-back.

 

I just feel it's another game Koeman has given away before a ball had even been kicked.

That's two times now and in two big away games.

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