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7 hours ago, RPG said:

Having clicked on the link I read that as CineWorld are reviewing the situation in light of the government compensation scheme.

What's the relevance? They discarded their staff at the first sign of a crisis which highlights two issues, one the company is ran by scum and two the government failed to act fast enough to put safeguards in place. 

6 hours ago, RPG said:

One of the many downsides of globalism, unfortunately. Terrible way to treat people but they do because they can.

Because the government, and the idiots who voted them in, let them. 

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1 hour ago, pete0 said:

What's the relevance? They discarded their staff at the first sign of a crisis which highlights two issues, one the company is ran by scum and two the government failed to act fast enough to put safeguards in place. 

Because the government, and the idiots who voted them in, let them. 

Not at all Pete. No system or government is perfect but I would far rather have BoJo running the country than Corbyn or any of his replacements. Enough people think that way to have given BoJo an 80+ seat majority and inflict Labour's worst GE result in 80+ years.

Many of the people you are calling idiots were lifelong Labour voters until they finally had enough of Corbyn and voted Tory.

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29 minutes ago, RPG said:

Not at al Pete. No system or government is perfect but I would far rather have BoJo running the country than Corbyn or any of his replacements. Enough people think that way to have given BoJo an 80+ seat majority and inflict Labour's worst GE result in 80+ years.

Many of the people you are calling idiots were lifelong Labour voters until they finally had enough of Corbyn and voted Tory.

On what basis is bj doing better than what corbyn would have?

Would corbyn have let companies lay staff off or would he have acted faster? 

Talking of acting faster would he have gave wishy washy advice?

Would be have acted sooner and put the people first and had the lock down sooner? 

Would people be doing unnecessary work? 

Would the NHS have had more beds under corbyn? 

Would the NHS have had more ventilators in preparation?

What exactly has bj done that would help more than what Corbyn would have done? 

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29 minutes ago, pete0 said:

On what basis is bj doing better than what corbyn would have?

Would corbyn have let companies lay staff off or would he have acted faster? 

Talking of acting faster would he have gave wishy washy advice?

Would be have acted sooner and put the people first and had the lock down sooner? 

Would people be doing unnecessary work? 

Would the NHS have had more beds under corbyn? 

Would the NHS have had more ventilators in preparation? 

Corbyn is a ditherer of the highest order.

Corbyn would make all the right noises but do way too little, way too late in a disorganised manner. Just look at his GE19 election campaign for proof of his disorganisation and inability to lead. He can't even lead the Labour party effectively. He would be a disaster in No.10. So, yes, Corbyn would have let companies lay staff off and then probably have seen strikes further disrupt his disorganised fight against Covid-19.

BoJo has acted sensibly and followed the advice of his apolitical experts every step of the way. Corbyn would just have done what he thought was politically expedient. And Corbyn would have faced exactly the same logistical issues that BoJo has faced and dealt with.

Unnecessary work? That is a non question. Its a subjective term.

NHS more beds under Corbyn? No. Probably more under BoJo with the rapid building of Nightingale and other temporary hospitals.

NHS more ventilators under Corbyn? No. Corbyn couldn't liaise with the private sector anywhere near as effectively as BoJo to produce them. We have Dyson, Mercedes, JCB etc all producing high quality kit for NHS in very short time.

More and more of the electorate have seen through Corbyn, momentum and the Labour party and will continue to do so. The huge number of former lifelong Labour voters who voted Tory in GE19 will be the death knell for Labour unless the party and its supporters give up on the extreme left wing rhetoric which, to date, continues to make it totally unelectable.

And I actually find that sad. This country needs a credible opposition and, at the moment, there isn't one.

 

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3 minutes ago, RPG said:

Corbyn is a ditherer of the highest order.

He's been a head of this government every step, he's been the one pressing for faster and more necessary action. 

Corbyn would make all the right noises but do way too little, way too late in a disorganised manner. Just look at his GE19 election campaign for proof of his disorganisation and inability to lead. He can't even lead the Labour party effectively. He would be a disaster in No.10. So, yes, Corbyn would have let companies lay staff off and then seen strikes further disrupt his disorganised fight against Covid-19.

So Labour backed by the unions would not protect workers. Corbyn the one asking for rents and mortgages to be suspended. Same guy who would have had bills nationalised and frozen too. 

BoJo has acted sensibly and followed the advice of his apolitical experts every step of the way. Corbyn would just have done what he thought was politically expedient. And Corbyn would have faced exactly the same logistical issues that BoJo has faced and dealt with.

He chose the company over people route. He would have had the Korean advice but chose to go the other way. He misinfomed and misled the public on how serious the matter was. Washing his hands got 20 seconds won't wash away the murder on them. 

Unnecessary work? That is a non question. Its a subjective term.

Not at all, how is a matalan warehouse worker essential at the moment? 

NHS more beds under Corbyn? No. Probably more under BoJo with the rapid building of Nightingale and other temporary hospitals.

This one is not even debatable, the tory government has managed a decline of the NHS. Labour would have heavily invested in the NHS as the tories have decemated it. 

NHS more ventilators under Corbyn? No. Corbyn couldn'y liaise with the private sector anywhere near as effectively as BoJo to produce them. We have Dyson, Mercedes, JCB etc all producing high quality kit for NHS in very short time.

He missed the EU program as they "forgot" to email a response. Also instructed one business not to bother making them. 

More and more of the electorate have seen through Corbyn, momentum and the Labour party. The number of former lifelong Labour voters who voted Tory in GE19 will be the death knell for Labour unless the party and its supporters give up on the extreme left wing rhetoric which, to date, continues to make it totally unelectable. 

Fact is Liverpool are the least media brainwashed in the country and are the heaviest Corbyn backers. Very much shows tories are brainwashed idiots at best, let's be honest their policies are evil. 

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Corbyn hasn't even been ahead of the PLP. He needs to learn how to lead the Labour Party before he even thinks about No.10. Too late now of course. Any no mark can snipe from the sidelines. Its very different when you are actually bearing the responsibility. Corbyn is ahead of nothing and nobody.

Its very easy to stand up in Parliament and make lots of left wing noises. He has no substance.

BoJo did no such thing. He took the advice of apolitical experts and followed it.

There are many gray areas when defining essential. We don't live in a nanny state, and there is such a thing as personal responsibility. Can you show me specific evidence where govt has stated that matalan is essential? And if they have, please also give their reasons.

GE19 was 4 months ago. Labour would have the same starting point v Covid-19 that BoJo had.

BoJo has got a rapid response from British based companies to provide kit to NHS and still has the option of EU support throughout the transition period if we want it.

You might want to think a little harder about your last para. You have basically inferred that Liverpool is the only city in UK that is not, at least in part, brainwashed. Do you not think that, actually, the laws of probability and statistics show that it might well be the other way around? You are very much in the minority and, whilst I admire your spirit, blind loyalty and faith, you are still very much in the minority and shrinking all the time. How many more GE's has Labour to lose before you start questioning the extreme left wing approach? It will never get you elected and if you are not in government you will never have an effective voice.

Like I said in my previous post, I am genuinely sad about that as UK needs a credible opposition and there isn't one.

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9 minutes ago, RPG said:

Corbyn hasn't even been ahead of the PLP. He needs to learn how to lead the Labour Party before he even thinks about No.10. Too late now of course. Any no mark can snipe from the sidelines. Its very different when you are actually bearing the responsibility. Corbyn is ahead of nothing and nobody.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thecanary.co/trending/2020/03/15/corbyns-coronavirus-response-just-shamed-the-tories/amp/

Its very easy to stand up in Parliament and make lots of left wing noises. He has no substance.

Other than consistently being on the right side of history. 

https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2018/10/18/anyone-who-doesnt-read-this-historic-endorsement-of-jeremy-corbyn-is-missing-out-2/

BoJo did no such thing. He took the advice of apolitical experts and followed it.

He made the decision. He could have chose the less deaths route but he picked the one that least affected his backers, the corporation's. That alone is treason. He's not fit to govern. 

There are many gray areas when defining essential. We don't live in a nanny state, and there is such a thing as personal responsibility. Can you show me specific evidence where govt has stated that matalan is essential? And if they have, please also give their reasons.

They allowed online operations to continue. They have them a memo to do so. They included travel to and from work as essential travel, they only closed retail shops open to the public. 

GE19 was 4 months ago. Labour would have the same starting point v Covid-19 that BoJo had.

So it's took our government 3 and a half months to start isolation, after weeks of wishy washy advice... Any government would have acted sooner. More so with Italy being an example of what happens if you don't. 

BoJo has got a rapid response from British based companies to provide kit to NHS and still has the option of EU support throughout the transition period if we want it.

He did get a rapid response, however he has dithered in them to go through with it. I'll make this as simple as possible. If the NHS better off under labour or the tories? 

You might want to think a little harder about your last para. You have basically inferred that Liverpool is the only city in UK that is not brainwashed. Do you not think that, actually, the laws of probability and statistics show that it might well be the other way around? You are very much in the minority and, whilst I admire your spirit, blind loyalty and faith, you are still very much in the minority and shrinking all the time. How many more GE's has Labour to lose before you start questioning the extreme left wing approach? It will never get you elected and if you are not in government you will never have an effective voice.

The tories are right wing media controlling litlle hitlers. No doubt what side you would have picked had you been born in Munich. 

Like I said in my previous post, I am genuinely sad about that as UK needs a credible opposition and there isn't one.

Just shows how easily you and the many are to be controlled by the media 🐑 

 

 

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Small point but it annoys the hell out of me that our PM is being called "BoJo". It's infantile whether you support him or not; for those against it's a "clown" name but for anyone supporting him why not give him a bit of respect by not suggesting a big red nose?

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8 hours ago, MikeO said:

Small point but it annoys the hell out of me that our PM is being called "BoJo". It's infantile whether you support him or not; for those against it's a "clown" name but for anyone supporting him why not give him a bit of respect by not suggesting a big red nose?

He was 'awarded' that sobriquet many years ago at the same time that 'Flo Jo' got her nicknmame in the field of athletics and I am told he doesn't object in the slightest to its use. Don't know for sure of course. Initials don't really work do they?

JC V BJ 😂

But, ok, in future he shall be referred to by his name.

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson

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10 hours ago, pete0 said:

You need to check your math there. With at least another 4 years (and almost certainly, nine or more) of power ahead of Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson that will be Labour out of power for at least 14 years (almost certainly nineteen plus) and, prior to that it was Labour in name only with Blair and Brown dragging Labour further and further to the right. The last true socialist government in UK lost power in 1979 and left its usual legacy of double digit inflation, high interest rates, high taxation, high unemployment, strikes and riots. That is 41 years ago.

And it is the Conservative Party that invariably has to set about balancing the books after the carnage of a left wing Labour government due Labour's propensity for spending money it hasn't got. As Baroness Margaret Hilda Thatcher quite rightly said 'The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money!'

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10 hours ago, pete0 said:

No doubt what side you would have picked had you been born in Munich.

You are correct. There is absolutely no doubt. I would have fought the fascists of the National SOCIALIST Party with every breath in my body.

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1 minute ago, RPG said:

You need to check your math there. With at least another 4 years (and almost certainly, nine) of power ahead of Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson that will be Labour out of power for at least 14 years (almost certainly nineteen plus) and, prior to that it was Labour in name only with Blair and Brown dragging Labour further and further to the right.

And it is the Conservative Party that invariably has to set about balancing the books on the rare occasions we have had a left wing Labour government due Labour's propensity for spending money it hasn't got. As Baroness Margaret Hilda Thatcher quite rightly said 'The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money!'

You are so arrogant it’s sickening the conservatives are the reason the NHS haven’t got the correct PPE haven’t got the ventilators haven’t been testing to help stop the spread, the reason for thousands who will die unnecessarily. 
Listen to your hero Piers Morgan the guy you quoted numerous times as all knowing when it came to Brexit, but now I would say you would say he’s wrong and doesn’t no what he’s talking about when he roundly condemns Boris and the Conservative party of there mismanagement of the whole thing. 
You say we are wrong purely because we vote labour and are left wing, when you let your far right beliefs complete cloud what’s happening, you will follow Boris know matter what he says and know matter how many die that’s just how blinkered you’ve became. 
You need to start opening your eyes and reevaluating what’s happening in this country, instead of just towing the party line and sticking Boris on a pedestal as some great Churchilllian figure to be proud of. 

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1 hour ago, Palfy said:

You are so arrogant it’s sickening the conservatives are the reason the NHS haven’t got the correct PPE haven’t got the ventilators haven’t been testing to help stop the spread, the reason for thousands who will die unnecessarily. 
Listen to your hero Piers Morgan the guy you quoted numerous times as all knowing when it came to Brexit, but now I would say you would say he’s wrong and doesn’t no what he’s talking about when he roundly condemns Boris and the Conservative party of there mismanagement of the whole thing. 
You say we are wrong purely because we vote labour and are left wing, when you let your far right beliefs complete cloud what’s happening, you will follow Boris know matter what he says and know matter how many die that’s just how blinkered you’ve became. 
You need to start opening your eyes and reevaluating what’s happening in this country, instead of just towing the party line and sticking Boris on a pedestal as some great Churchilllian figure to be proud of. 

No Palfy, I don't say that at all. I quoted facts. They are facts that don't go down too well with the good people of Liverpool but they are, nonetheless, facts. The last true socialist government in UK lost power 41 years ago and left us its usual legacy of high inflation, high taxation, high interest rates, high unemployment, strikes and riots. Not to mention a prior cap in hand visit to IMF to stave off bankruptcy. In 1979 inflation was running at over 13% and interest rates were even higher. Some  'socialist bailout!'

I would call myself right of centre but certainly not far right. I believe in having a social conscience but I also believe in accepting personal responsibility. Of course, anything on this board that isn't left wing has to be labelled far right or fascist. It is a very immature approach to debate and reflects badly on whoever supports that approach.

When it comes to opinion, mine (which is just as valid as yours and everyone else's on this board) is that Johnson did the best possible in the circumstances by listening to his apolitical advisors and acting on that advice. Of course I wish that all the kit the NHS needed was on the shelf and ready to go. It wasn't and lessons need to be learned - certainly. My point is that Corbyn would have had exactly the same start point as Johnson and, given Corbyn's demonstrably abject leadership of the Labour Party and the total failure of his GE19 election campaign (worst Labour GE result for 85 years), it is very hard to see him doing any better than Johnson - and probably a whole lot worse. That isn't arrogance. It is reasoned thinking which doesn't sit well with the left wing bias on this board.

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23 minutes ago, RPG said:

No Palfy, I don't say that at all. I quoted facts. They are facts that don't go down too well with the good people of Liverpool but they are, nonetheless, facts. The last true socialist government in UK lost power 41 years ago and left its usual legacy of high inflation, high taxation, high interest rates, high unemployment, strikes and riots. Not to mention a cap in hand visit to IMF to stave off bankruptcy. Some  'socialist bailout!'

When it comes to opinion, mine (which is just as valid as yours and everyone else's on this board) is that Johnson did the best possible in the circumstances by listening to his apolitical advisors and acting on that advice. Of course I wish that all the kit the NHS needed was on the shelf and ready to go. It wasn't and lessons need to be learned - certainly. My point is that Corbyn would have had exactly the same start point as Johnson and, given Corbyn's demonstrably abject leadership of the Labour Party and his total failure of election campaign (worst Labour GE result for 85 years), it is very hard to see him doing any better than Johnson - and probably a whole lot worse. That isn't arrogance. It is reasoned thinking which doesn't sit well with the left wing bias on this board.

I’m not concerned about whether Corbyn would have done a good job or not that argument isn’t relevant to the now, what I’m more concerned about is that fact that you cannot concede that this government has been a shambles in the way it has handled this crisis, regardless of what party was in power I would condemn them for shutting the barn door once the horse has bolted, those countries that reacted early are reaping the rewards of their early intervention, Germany testing 500,000 people a day, us and I say that loosely being as you haven’t lived here for 20 plus years, struggle to test 10,000, yet both countries had the same timetable our government didn’t react, when Germany were buying PPE testing kits ventilators and what was required to fight this, Boris was on TV boasting that he was still going to shake hands with people who had the virus, what an appallingly statement from any PM of any country, and you know what really narks me is you back that to the hilt with he’s doing the best job in the circumstances, the circumstances him and the Tory government created in the last 10 years. 
We should have everything at this no matter the cost, you can rebuild an economy over time but you cannot bring back thousands of people who have died from lack of effort and spending money. 

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18 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I’m not concerned about whether Corbyn would have done a good job or not that argument isn’t relevant to the now, what I’m more concerned about is that fact that you cannot concede that this government has been a shambles in the way it has handled this crisis, regardless of what party was in power I would condemn them for shutting the barn door once the horse has bolted, those countries that reacted early are reaping the rewards of their early intervention, Germany testing 500,000 people a day, us and I say that loosely being as you haven’t lived here for 20 plus years, struggle to test 10,000, yet both countries had the same timetable our government didn’t react, when Germany were buying PPE testing kits ventilators and what was required to fight this, Boris was on TV boasting that he was still going to shake hands with people who had the virus, what an appallingly statement from any PM of any country, and you know what really narks me is you back that to the hilt with he’s doing the best job in the circumstances, the circumstances him and the Tory government created in the last 10 years. 
We should have everything at this no matter the cost, you can rebuild an economy over time but you cannot bring back thousands of people who have died from lack of effort and spending money. 

What you are criticising then, is the expert advice. And, to a degree, I have to agree. But, Johnson did react quickly in getting Mercedes, Dyson, JCB producing high quality kit for NHS in very short order. I haven't seen industry move that quickly since we realised we needed an AAR capability for Hercules and Nimrod in 1982. It was done in days.

You can criticise all you like, but I would prefer to support the fight against Covid-19 which the government is steadily starting to win. There will always be those who try to score domestic political points in a global emergency, but as you rightly infer, it doesn't matter who is in charge. The important thing is to beat this virus. Can I suggest therefore that we leave the 'Monday morning quarterback' conversations until after we have beaten this Covid-19.

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4 minutes ago, Chach said:

What are the Tories doing now then?

In the global crisis that we now find ourselves they have no choice. All I can say is that we couldn't have criticised Corbyn if he had been in power for doing exactly the same thing. There will be adverse economic consequences but it is a case of the lesser of the 2 evils isn't it.

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1 minute ago, RPG said:

In the global crisis that we now find ourselves they have no choice. All I can say is that we couldn't have criticised Corbyn if he had been in power for doing exactly the same thing. There will be adverse economic consequences but it is a case of the lesser of the 2 evils isn't it.

Can I ask you what you think money is and how it is created?

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1 minute ago, RPG said:

What you are criticising then, is the expert advice. And, to a degree, I have to agree. But, Johnson did react quickly in getting Mercedes, Dyson, JCB producing high quality kit for NHS in very short order. I haven't seen industry move that quickly since we realised we needed an AAR capability for Hercules and Nimrod in 1982. It was done in days.

You can criticise all you like, but I would prefer to support the fight against Covid-19 which the government is steadily starting to win. Thete will always be those who try to score domestic political points in a global emergency, but as you rightly infer, it doesn't matter who is in charge. The important thing is to beat this virus. Can I suggest therefore that we leave the 'Monday morning quarterback' conversations until after we have beaten this virus.

That isn’t true about the ventilators he left it far to late they were still in the design stage a week ago from the companies you spoke of , one company Gtech were asked to do a design and gear there production line up which they did do on both accounts, to then be told they didn’t require there services. 
But the biggest own goal by the Tories came 5 years ago when there was health study on how this country would cope with a flu like pandemic, to cut a long story short the government’s own advisors recommended that the NHS should buy thousands of ventilators, as we were woefully short, the government went against the findings of the study it asked for, against the advice of the professionals it asked to carryout the study all in the name of austerity, the conservatives have starved the NHS of funds and resources over the last decade like no other government in the history of the start of the NHS.

As nearly all reporters journalists and people in this country have recognised we are now trying to play catch up, and are struggling because those who acted have bought the resources. 

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36 minutes ago, RPG said:

Yes, you can ask but I am not going down that political sidetrack.

That a cop out, it's not a political question. It's an important clarification when you are bandying around assertions that your party is spending it wisely and your political rivals are spending it wantonly.

If you don't answer any further posts will moot until such time that you do.

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7 minutes ago, Palfy said:

That isn’t true about the ventilators he left it far to late they were still in the design stage a week ago from the companies you spoke of , one company Gtech were asked to do a design and gear there production line up which they did do on both accounts, to then be told they didn’t require there services. 
But the biggest own goal by the Tories came 5 years ago when there was health study on how this country would cope with a flu like pandemic, to cut a long story short the government’s own advisors recommended that the NHS should buy thousands of ventilators, as we were woefully short, the government went against the findings of the study it asked for, against the advice of the professionals it asked to carryout the study all in the name of austerity, the conservatives have starved the NHS of funds and resources over the last decade like no other government in the history of the start of the NHS.

As nearly all reporters journalists and people in this country have recognised we are now trying to play catch up, and are struggling because those who acted have bought the resources. 

Mate, you're barking up the wrong tree trying to make this a partisan issue (and so is RPG). The civil service is running the show as best they possibly can and the government are just reporting on what they're doing. (badly)

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20 hours ago, Matt said:

I don’t think it’ll be as long as a lot of people think. Impulse 2 made massive headway in the development but agree it’s probably 30+ years before we see jumbos. Depends what you mean by a while

I don't think I will see it in my lifetime.😁

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50 minutes ago, Chach said:

That a cop out, it's not a political question. It's an important clarification when you are bandying around assertions that your party is spending it wisely and your political rivals are spending it wantonly.

If you don't answer any further posts will moot until such time that you do.

But I did no such thing wrt Covid-19. i said that we couldn't criticise Corbyn either if he had done the same.

Public borrowing has to be paid back in one form or another. Labour learned (or rather, didn't learn) that the hard way  in the 1970's.

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1 hour ago, Chach said:

Mate, you're barking up the wrong tree trying to make this a partisan issue (and so is RPG). The civil service is running the show as best they possibly can and the government are just reporting on what they're doing. (badly)

The Civil Service has various contingency, disaster and emergency plans ready to go. Always have had. But it does need ministerial approval to put them into action. In that regard I have to agree with Palfy.

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1 hour ago, Chach said:

Mate, you're barking up the wrong tree trying to make this a partisan issue (and so is RPG). The civil service is running the show as best they possibly can and the government are just reporting on what they're doing. (badly)

I do agree that the civil service gives cabinet ministers advice but ultimately that minister has a choice of whether he concurs with that advice or not, even civil servants disagree with each other as well as you know, that minister is in his position to run his department, and all we can do is pray that he has a grasp on what he is doing not just there as a yes man, although many are and some have the metal to stand up for what they believe in even if it means resigning. 
What you are advocating is people not being able to be held accountable through blame culture, give an MP the opportunity to blame someone else for his decisions and he or she would bite your hands off.

And I have just read RPGs post on the civil service and agree largely with what he said. 

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6 hours ago, RPG said:

But I did no such thing wrt Covid-19. i said that we couldn't criticise Corbyn either if he had done the same.

Public borrowing has to be paid back in one form or another. Labour learned (or rather, didn't learn) that the hard way  in the 1970's.

The debt has doubled under the Conservative Party yet companies are making more profit than ever. Historically the tories have increased the debt more than any other party. 

The only people that believe otherwise are sheep that have been brainwashed. You have no excuse though as this has already been highlighted by others on here to you. Just shows how much you've been indoctrinated. 

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8 hours ago, Chach said:

That a cop out, it's not a political question. It's an important clarification when you are bandying around assertions that your party is spending it wisely and your political rivals are spending it wantonly.

If you don't answer any further posts will moot until such time that you do.

Fair play Chach just seen this no one can accuse you of giving up, your like a dog with a bone which I admire😀

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9 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Fair play Chach just seen this no one can accuse you of giving up, your like a dog with a bone which I admire😀

That's up to you. If you choose to listen, read or respond is up to you. Won't stop me posting when I wish. Maybe Chach (or even you) can enlighten us by answering his sidetracking qurstion.

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30 minutes ago, pete0 said:

The debt has doubled under the Conservative Party yet companies are making more profit than ever. Historically the tories have increased the debt more than any other party. 

The only people that believe otherwise are sheep that have been brainwashed. You have no excuse though as this has already been highlighted by others on here to you. Just shows how much you've been indoctrinated. 

Well, you are of course entitled to your point of view, but I assure you I have been indoctrinated by nobody, am very much my own man and your 'brainwashing' comments are exactly what I would expect from someone who can't separate reasoned thinking from jaundiced agenda.

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12 minutes ago, RPG said:

Well, you are of course entitled to your point of view, but I assure you I have been indoctrinated by nobody, am very much my own man and your 'brainwashing' comments are exactly what I would expect from someone who can't separate reasoned thinking from jaundiced agenda.

It's a fact tories increase debt more than Labour. Do you dispute that? 

You've already been told so. As such what reasoning can you use to justify the inaccurate nonsense you've been spouting? 

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19 hours ago, RPG said:

Public borrowing has to be paid back in one form or another. Labour learned (or rather, didn't learn) that the hard way  in the 1970's.

I really don't see you you can make this claim while you're denying to provide a definition of what money is and how it's created.

Comparisons to the 70's when the UK was on the gold standard are spurious to say the least.

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19 hours ago, RPG said:

The Civil Service has various contingency, disaster and emergency plans ready to go. Always have had. But it does need ministerial approval to put them into action. In that regard I have to agree with Palfy.

I'm a public servant so very across the way things work, the average person would be amazed at how little changes when the government does. They will have their election commitments which in the grand scheme is typically fiddling around at the edges, the vast majority is BAU.

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1 hour ago, Chach said:

I really don't see you you can make this claim while you're denying to provide a definition of what money is and how it's created.

Comparisons to the 70's when the UK was on the gold standard are spurious to say the least.

So how do you defend Brown's post gold standard fiscal dealings then?

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/5393/don_t_whitewash_gordon_brown_he_was_a_disaster

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2 minutes ago, RPG said:

So how do you defend Brown's post gold standard fiscal dealings then?

Government debt as a proportion of GDP under Brown was lower than the previous Tory government, government spending as a % of GDP has been constant since the war.

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30 minutes ago, Chach said:

Government debt as a proportion of GDP under Brown was lower than the previous Tory government, government spending as a % of GDP has been constant since the war.

That's defending him? As Chancellor, Brown inherited a strong economy and low unemployment and he trashed them both in a cynical attempt to buy votes - which also failed. Even Blair later admitted that Brown had failed. Worse, that he knew he would fail!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/aug/31/tony-blair-gordon-brown-disaster

We haven't even touched on how he destroyed pensions yet. But being a public servant I suppose you still have your very generous taxpayer funded pension scheme to look forward to in retirement.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/12/public-sector-pensions-100k-rise-threefold

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23 hours ago, pete0 said:

It's a fact tories increase debt more than Labour. Do you dispute that? 

You've already been told so. As such what reasoning can you use to justify the inaccurate nonsense you've been spouting? 

@RPG

You not gonna admit you're tory ethics and beliefs you were taught are wrong?

Remember they said there's no magic money tree, well they've just plucked £13 billion out their arse pocket. If they were capable of doing this then why have we suffered 10 years of austerity. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-nhs-debt-matt-hancock-press-conference-briefing-a9443926.html?fbclid=IwAR2XIs36SZtWzlUKueIjZeVRoP25Kb4zJwPzPd_6hwifdmz2I1G6j9tgL4c

Edit: Corbyn was right. 

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/coronavirus-crisis-we-will-come-to-learn-jeremy-corbyn-was-right-2526507?fbclid=IwAR3nZ39NkesAU_cybfm51SHyF-iX9e_CFNVau39p7pwapQtE3sqhOi26z2I

9 hours ago, RPG said:

That's defending him? As Chancellor, Brown inherited a strong economy and low unemployment and he trashed them both in a cynical attempt to buy votes - which also failed. Even Blair later admitted that Brown had failed. Worse, that he knew he would fail!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/aug/31/tony-blair-gordon-brown-disaster

We haven't even touched on how he destroyed pensions yet. But being a public servant I suppose you still have your very generous taxpayer funded pension scheme to look forward to in retirement.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/12/public-sector-pensions-100k-rise-threefold

Other than a tory sheep everyone and their dog knows the economy was fucked by the American loans. Any how debt was lower under Blair and Brown than the following tory governments. Baffling that the government with the economy making more money and the company making more profits increased debt... Homelessness and poverty. Shame on anyone who has their ideals. 

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20 hours ago, RPG said:

1) That's defending him? As Chancellor, Brown inherited a strong economy and low unemployment and he trashed them both in a cynical attempt to buy votes - which also failed. Even Blair later admitted that Brown had failed. Worse, that he knew he would fail!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/aug/31/tony-blair-gordon-brown-disaster

We haven't even touched on how he destroyed pensions yet. But being a public servant I suppose you still have your very generous taxpayer funded pension scheme to look forward to in retirement.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/12/public-sector-pensions-100k-rise-threefold

1) There's nothing in that Guardian article where Blair trashes Brown's performance as Chancellor. ( You're going to need more evidence that a news article link to demonstrate Brown's fiscal policy wrecked both employment and the economy too by the way)

2) Nice attempt at an ad hominem there, but pension schemes in Australia are mandated under law whereby ones employed contributes 9.5% on top of your salary into you fund. Private or public sector.

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4 hours ago, Chach said:

1) There's nothing in that Guardian article where Blair trashes Brown's performance as Chancellor. ( You're going to need more evidence that a news article link to demonstrate Brown's fiscal policy wrecked both employment and the economy too by the way)

2) Nice attempt at an ad hominem there, but pension schemes in Australia are mandated under law whereby ones employed contributes 9.5% on top of your salary into you fund. Private or public sector.

So, you are in Australia, yet I get flak for commenting on UK Issues from Dubai and told that I I should regrain from comments as I am not directly affected, while you are twice as far away from UK as me. Classy!

 

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4 hours ago, RPG said:

So, you are in Australia, yet I get flak for commenting on UK Issues from Dubai and told that I I should regrain from comments as I am not directly affected, while you are twice as far away from UK as me. Classy!

 

But he’s right Blair never criticised Brown as a chancellor, on the contrary Blair always recognised Brown as a good chancellor. 
Blair and Brown fell out near the end of Blair’s role as PM, which led to him saying he didn’t think Brown would make a good PM, he didn’t and couldn’t say Brown was a poor chancellor because the evidence was there to disprove it, and you surely can’t be trying to blame Brown for the world banking crisis that effected every country in the world. 

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39 minutes ago, Palfy said:

But he’s right Blair never criticised Brown as a chancellor, on the contrary Blair always recognised Brown as a good chancellor. 
Blair and Brown fell out near the end of Blair’s role as PM, which led to him saying he didn’t think Brown would make a good PM, he didn’t and couldn’t say Brown was a poor chancellor because the evidence was there to disprove it, and you surely can’t be trying to blame Brown for the world banking crisis that effected every country in the world. 

I'll give you that one. My post could have been clearer. Blair criticised Brown as PM but I will certainly criticise him as Chancellor for his £100 billion raid on pensions. Lots of people will never forgive him for that.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1531448/Browns-raid-on-pensions-costs-Britain-100-billion.html

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That was a tax on dividends to make the rich who were paying themselves a punitive amount through PAYE then paying themselves thousands of pounds in share dividends at taxable rate of only 10%.
A loophole that had to be closed taxation has to be fair and the rich shouldn’t be allowed to take advantage of loopholes that 95% of the population can’t, unless of course you are in the 5% you might not agree. 

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On 01/04/2020 at 20:03, pete0 said:

It's a fact tories increase debt more than Labour. Do you dispute that? 

You've already been told so. As such what reasoning can you use to justify the inaccurate nonsense you've been spouting? 

 

On 02/04/2020 at 19:12, pete0 said:

@RPG

You not gonna admit you're tory ethics and beliefs you were taught are wrong?

Remember they said there's no magic money tree, well they've just plucked £13 billion out their arse pocket. If they were capable of doing this then why have we suffered 10 years of austerity. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-nhs-debt-matt-hancock-press-conference-briefing-a9443926.html?fbclid=IwAR2XIs36SZtWzlUKueIjZeVRoP25Kb4zJwPzPd_6hwifdmz2I1G6j9tgL4c

Edit: Corbyn was right. 

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/coronavirus-crisis-we-will-come-to-learn-jeremy-corbyn-was-right-2526507?fbclid=IwAR3nZ39NkesAU_cybfm51SHyF-iX9e_CFNVau39p7pwapQtE3sqhOi26z2I

Other than a tory sheep everyone and their dog knows the economy was fucked by the American loans. Any how debt was lower under Blair and Brown than the following tory governments. Baffling that the government with the economy making more money and the company making more profits increased debt... Homelessness and poverty. Shame on anyone who has their ideals. 

@RPG

Third time of asking. 

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2 minutes ago, RPG said:

Yes to your first question/insult.

 

No to your second question/propaganda

Not good enough rpg. Give an explanation. Show your true colours. 

The fact you ignored it twice and then third time of asking gave that pathetic response says everything. 

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7 minutes ago, pete0 said:

That's 4 times now you've been too weak to admit your wrong or give an explanation why. 

No, its as many times as you like that I choose not to engage with a foul mouthed lout. Learn some manners. And that's you on ignore.

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4 minutes ago, RPG said:

No, its as many times as you like that I choose not to engage with a foul mouthed lout. Learn some manners.

Foul mouthed? Now you're just making excuses. You're an embarrassment. You spout nonsense and when asked to back it have no reply. Just goes to show you now realise it's evil but you're too stubborn to admit you've been misled/miseducated. Well that or you are an evil little man. 

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2 minutes ago, RPG said:

No, its as many times as you like that I choose not to engage with a foul mouthed lout. Learn some manners.

The political threads were opened again after a hiatus after things got nasty. You'll undoubtedly see me as "protecting" someone who I largely agree with but I see no evidence of a "foul mouthed lout" in anything pete has posted. If you want to make an official complaint use the report button and it'll be discussed.

For now if these threads get abusive again they'll be closed.

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