General Election/UK Politics

[Romey 1878]

4 hours ago, pete0 said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/VictoriaLIVE/status/1189135511668936704?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1189135511668936704&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thecanary.co%2Ftrending%2F2019%2F10%2F29%2Fin-just-20-seconds-on-the-bbc-ken-loach-nails-the-absolute-contempt-tories-have-for-ordinary-people%2F

And yet, his Goverment will be in power for another 5 years from December.

[MikeO]

This could go in any of three threads but I'll put it here...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50252285

Just fuck off Donald, you know less than the average UK council estate dweller does (no disrespect to anyone who lives on a council estate, I have daughters that do) about Johnson, Corbyn,  politics, Brexit, diplomacy, humility and probably astrophysics as well. Keep your irrelevant opinions to yourself. Wonderful that these views were (are still currently) voiced in an interview with his fanboy Farage, who won't be standing in the election (because he knows he'd fail for a 7th time to get a seat) and whose party will get, if they do really well among the bigots of Essex, two seats at most.

[MikeO]

27 minutes ago, MikeO said:

This could go in any of three threads but I'll put it here...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50252285

Just fuck off Donald, you know less than the average UK council estate dweller does (no disrespect to anyone who lives on a council estate, I have daughters that do) about Johnson, Corbyn,  politics, Brexit, diplomacy, humility and probably astrophysics as well. Keep your irrelevant opinions to yourself. Wonderful that these views were (are still currently) voiced in an interview with his fanboy Farage, who won't be standing in the election (because he knows he'd fail for a 7th time to get a seat) and whose party will get, if they do really well among the bigots of Essex, two seats at most.

Feel like this has to be a spoof

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7WsHoHgUP8

 

[Palfy]

7 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Just fuck off Donald, you know less than the average UK council estate dweller does (no disrespect to anyone who lives on a council estate

then why use that analogy if not to disrespect or cast aspersions on people who live on council estates?

[MikeO]

2 hours ago, Palfy said:

then why use that analogy if not to disrespect or cast aspersions on people who live on council estates?

Because I think, not as a blanket generalisation of all of them as I said, those who live in social housing would tend to be less enervated politically than those who don't. I could've said "the working classes" or "those less educated" as alternative groups but I was angry and it was the first thing that came into my head as representative of those who on average would be likely to be less aware or interested than some other more outward looking demographic groups. As I said "no disrespect to anyone who lives on a council estate, I have daughters that do"  while at the same time suggesting they had a better knowledge on astrophysics than the leader of the Western World, so I fail to see how any offence could be taken.

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, MikeO said:

Because I think, not as a blanket generalisation of all of them as I said, those who live in social housing would tend to be less enervated politically than those who don't. I could've said "the working classes" or "those less educated" as alternative groups but I was angry and it was the first thing that came into my head as representative of those who on average would be likely to be less aware or interested than some other more outward looking demographic groups. As I said "no disrespect to anyone who lives on a council estate, I have daughters that do"  while at the same time suggesting they had a better knowledge on astrophysics than the leader of the Western World, so I fail to see how any offence could be taken.

I do realise you were angry I could tell that by the fuck off Donald, you very rarely resort to using expletives in that way which is a credit to you. 
To be honest I was a bit bemused by the council estate dweller, I thought you’d got a bang on the head and woke up a Tory you nutter

[MikeO]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

To be honest I was a bit bemused by the council estate dweller, I thought you’d got a bang on the head and woke up a Tory you nutter

I'll be ice-skating in Hades long before that!

[MikeO]

Ok let me make sure I have this straight.

1. Farage says Johnson's deal isn't Brexit.

2. Farage wants to form "leave alliance" with tories who will..

3...be campaigning for Johnson's deal.

"Oh dear," says Farage, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

(© Douglas Adams)

 

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, MikeO said:

Ok let me make sure I have this straight.

1. Farage says Johnson's deal isn't Brexit.

2. Farage wants to form "leave alliance" with tories who will..

3...be campaigning for Johnson's deal.

"Oh dear," says Farage, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

(© Douglas Adams)

 

he also said if the Tories didn’t agree to an alliance he was going to fight them in every seat for the true Brexit.

What a prick, but on the other hand he is going to split the Tory right vote so he does have some use I guess. 

[pete0]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/after-boris-johnson-visits-cambridge-20785709?fbclid=IwAR39xxD9GqKLwKmgn3kDHxSKxUO6Y79jsb8sK5PMBMvYskmvAcbeFCq8tGA

Booed out of the hospital as well. Absolute farce the tories have been around so long. 

Looks like the Germans learned from the war shocking that half our voting population never. 

Nice little quote from Klopp a few years ago doing the rounds again. 

“My political understanding is this,” he added. “If I am doing well, I want others to do well, too. If there's something I will never do in my life it is vote for the right.”

[pete0]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/nov/02/fracking-banned-in-uk-as-government-makes-major-u-turn?fbclid=IwAR3-3McutxDVEoln1n-PMLqMlx_8Mf21Kc16qemKbIoEVy3dqzKy6LSIkDg

Curious timing, in power a decade yet finally suspend (not outright ban) fracking the week an election is announced. 

[MikeO]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50275383

[pete0]

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/01/tech/facebook-false-ads-uk/index.html?fbclid=IwAR0OABxm51Z0PuvJrJNuJY-KWUvyaPBBuoHMm-rCPAlbO2tUai5_uxzOSW0

Would it be too much for politicians not to lie. Maybe even hold them to account for it. 

[Bailey]

On 30/10/2019 at 23:09, pete0 said:

The decrease in corporation tax is a negative, the country is worse off for it (national debt has soured under the tories) with the only people benefiting betting the rich getting richer. Lower tax bracket always goes up each year and has minimal effect to people's lives, £10 a month with lower than inflation pay rises mean most people are earning less than they were 10 years ago. 

Sounds great in theory but as you can see from our public services they are just a means for rich to exploit and the burden remains with the public. Train companies have absolutely took the piss as have the water and energy. The only real difference in public and private is private are more ruthless at cost cutting as they need to make a profit. The difference between our public transport and the cost compared to other first world countries is disgusting. What other country has private 'public' transport?

Sounds like a sound bite from the 80s. Look at the whole picture. The rich have taken from the poor via worse and worse employment rights. Sainsbury's make 100s of million profit yet fought to make their employees worse off for the sake of more profit. It's disgusting, and the worse thing is our parliament sanctioned it. Just happens Sainsbury's are a massive tory contributor and their shit low houred contracts help fudge the employment rate figures but maybe that's all just coincidence. A country should do what's best for its people, the tories simply do not. 

Why is it a negative? Reducing corporation tax has yielded greater tax revenues and brought more jobs to the county? It is a small increase but proportionally has a greater affect on those on lower incomes.

We had a recession which had a big impact on the country however now things are moving forward again wage growth is outstripping inflation (3.9% v 2% - ONS via BBC).

If you have a quick Google you will see that a lot of countries operate subsidised private transport systems. I would never argue that the current system of franchise (trains) is working for the country, its been poorly mismanaged for a long time and part of that problem is combined with an aging railway network, which I believe is publicly owned. At the same time, I also dont believe funding it in full publicly is the answer because there were a lot of problems before when it was publicly owned and the numbers of people using public transport since then has increased significantly. It will be interesting to see how the East Coast line does under public ownership.

What "worse and worse" employment rights are you referring to? I can only see how it has got better and better for employees in this day and age? Its almost impossible to sack someone now. Its those rights that have protected the Sainsburys and potentially now Asda workers as far as I can see. I would appreciate it if you could explain what you mean by the Government sanctioning it? From what I have read the Sainsburys staff wanted to keep the flexibility in the workplace as this is particularly important for young workers and women (and I guess men) with families? It should also be pointed out that the average worker would have earnt more had the changes come in, maybe the Tories were doing what was best for those people?

[MikeO]

4 minutes ago, Bailey said:

...maybe the Tories were doing what was best for those people?

Thoughtful response that I found quite interesting until the punchline.

[pete0]

48 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Why is it a negative? Reducing corporation tax has yielded greater tax revenues and brought more jobs to the county? It is a small increase but proportionally has a greater affect on those on lower incomes.

Greater? Year on year GDP has gone up but no more than naturally expected. Only difference is we've not been repaying the national debt which has doubled. How have the tories helped the country there? 

We had a recession which had a big impact on the country however now things are moving forward again wage growth is outstripping inflation (3.9% v 2% - ONS via BBC).

£800 worse off than when they took over. That number would be much lower if the worst offender wasn't the government itself, the lowest civil service grade had to be scrapped as their wages were gonna fall below minimum wage due to the pay freeze. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/peterstefanovi2/status/1091369659616690176

If you have a quick Google you will see that a lot of countries operate subsidised private transport systems. I would never argue that the current system of franchise (trains) is working for the country, its been poorly mismanaged for a long time and part of that problem is combined with an aging railway network, which I believe is publicly owned. At the same time, I also dont believe funding it in full publicly is the answer because there were a lot of problems before when it was publicly owned and the numbers of people using public transport since then has increased significantly. It will be interesting to see how the East Coast line does under public ownership.

Ours are owned mostly by Germans, oh and a billionair former record shop owner. The Germans are nationalised so we've just got a random company and neither them or virgin could be called experts on train logistics. Only reason they make money is that they exploit the public, train prices are double that of any other country. It's disgusting, people even get loans from their employers as the fares are so high. 

Are you really trying to put the blame on the nationalised part? 

What "worse and worse" employment rights are you referring to? I can only see how it has got better and better for employees in this day and age? Its almost impossible to sack someone now. Its those rights that have protected the Sainsburys and potentially now Asda workers as far as I can see. I would appreciate it if you could explain what you mean by the Government sanctioning it? From what I have read the Sainsburys staff wanted to keep the flexibility in the workplace as this is particularly important for young workers and women (and I guess men) with families? It should also be pointed out that the average worker would have earnt more had the changes come in, maybe the Tories were doing what was best for those people?

Less breaks (Tony Blair responsible for that one too), less holidays, no weekends or unsociable hours additional pay. Brought in employment tribunal costs (now scraped). 

The government allowed Sainsbury's to change the terms of pay. So breaks would no longer be paid and the employees would no longer be entitled to a bonus. Average person was worse off due to the change in terms. Bear in mind this company is profitable, 100s of millions, so has no need to squeeze the staff. 

What newspaper have you read that in? Flexibility, do you know anyone who works in retail? The flexibility is all one way. People get two week rotas and have to revolve their life around them. Hours are kept low so holiday pay is less and if you turn down overtime you may than struggle to get it again. Its gives far too much power and control over employees. 

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/proposed-reforms-to-modern-employment-and-their-limitations/

Tories doing their best to help people.. I'd laugh if poverty wasn't a serious issue. Just look at the report the EU done about our state. 

 

[MikeO]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50280848

Read, "I know I wouldn't get in, at the 8th attempt".

[pete0]

34 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

The Tories did the job in the 80s when Thatcher crushed the unions. Employment rights are never given from on high, they are fought for by ordinary workers who are brave enough to stand up to their greedy employers.

Now that the power is totally in the hands of corporations, and a lot of this can be attributed to mass migration and the ease of replacement, the employees have no chance of winning better terms.

The reason I can go to my boss from time to time for a pay rise is because of scarcity. There are more opportunities in my trade than people to fill them. But for a shop worker at Sainsbury's; well if you rock the boat you are out because there is always someone else who will do it for less. Unless people are able to demand a fair wage for a fair day's work then there will always be exploitation.

Agree for the most part, other than the migrants. They mostly do jobs we don't want, like cleaners, or fill a gap in the market nurses/doctors. 

Completely agree companies have far too much power. 

[pete0]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/03/hes-got-a-battle-on-his-hands-could-uxbridge-unseat-boris-johnson?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3j1mXhSHCNXDhsdAVOnAO4PaHzm1dJRnD6J1igYu1CL-4Bxp0byLFhDOc#Echobox=1572797536

Boris' rival Ali Milani, campaigning as the local vote. Iranian born migrant who moved here at the age of 5, but as he says about the hospital he's a proper local. Would be sweet if he got the town on side, give the rest of the country hope. 

[MikeO]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/03/hes-got-a-battle-on-his-hands-could-uxbridge-unseat-boris-johnson?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3j1mXhSHCNXDhsdAVOnAO4PaHzm1dJRnD6J1igYu1CL-4Bxp0byLFhDOc#Echobox=1572797536

Boris' rival Ali Milani, campaigning as the local vote. Iranian born migrant who moved here at the age of 5, but as he says about the hospital he's a proper local. Would be sweet if he got the town on side, give the rest of the country hope. 

Would be priceless. I was born in Uxbridge and was there earlier this year when me and my brother did a "tour" of our youth, I was actually amazed at how affluent and "rural" it seemed for a part of London (wasn't London when I was there, was Middlesex); would seriously piss myself laughing if he got beaten.

[pete0]

13 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Would be priceless. I was born in Uxbridge and was there earlier this year when me and my brother did a "tour" of our youth, I was actually amazed at how affluent and "rural" it seemed for a part of London (wasn't London when I was there, was Middlesex); would seriously piss myself laughing if he got beaten.

Shame you can't use your old postal address to cast a vote. Like you say it'll be priceless, fingers crossed we see it happen. 

[MikeO]

14 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Shame you can't use your old postal address to cast a vote. Like you say it'll be priceless, fingers crossed we see it happen. 

Left there when I was two sadly so unlikely to be on the electoral roll!

Indictment on modern Britain. My parents bought it as their first house in 1957 for about £2,000, my dad was a lowly paid travelling salesman at the time and mum didn't work but they could still afford to buy a house; quick search on Zoopla and I found a similar semi just round the corner on sale now for £475,000. Ridiculous. How anybody gets on the property ladder these days is beyond me.

[pete0]

9 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Left there when I was two sadly so unlikely to be on the electoral roll!

Indictment on modern Britain. My parents bought it as their first house in 1957 for about £2,000, my dad was a lowly paid travelling salesman at the time and mum didn't work but they could still afford to buy a house; quick search on Zoopla and I found a similar semi just round the corner on sale now for £475,000. Ridiculous. How anybody gets on the property ladder these days is beyond me.

Housing is crazy. My parents were lucky and got their terrace for £30k in the late 90s just before the boom. I've probs spent that much on rent so far  

Many down south moving north with the rent enough to cover a mortgage 

[Johnsy]

3 hours ago, pete0 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/03/hes-got-a-battle-on-his-hands-could-uxbridge-unseat-boris-johnson?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3j1mXhSHCNXDhsdAVOnAO4PaHzm1dJRnD6J1igYu1CL-4Bxp0byLFhDOc#Echobox=1572797536

Boris' rival Ali Milani, campaigning as the local vote. Iranian born migrant who moved here at the age of 5, but as he says about the hospital he's a proper local. Would be sweet if he got the town on side, give the rest of the country hope. 

This is my constituency!

I'm excited for this election as it actually feels like my vote might be worth something this time in what has traditionally been a Tory safe seat. There is talk of Johnson potentially running away to a safer constituency as he knows he's under threat here, but I really hope that doesn't happen - I'd love it if he came knocking on my door! (though there's no way he'll be out campaigning like that, he'll probably just hide in the local hospital or primary school if he even bothers to come out here)

[pete0]

10 minutes ago, Johnsy said:

This is my constituency!

I'm excited for this election as it actually feels like my vote might be worth something this time in what has traditionally been a Tory safe seat. There is talk of Johnson potentially running away to a safer constituency as he knows he's under threat here, but I really hope that doesn't happen - I'd love it if he came knocking on my door! (though there's no way he'll be out campaigning like that, he'll probably just hide in the local hospital or primary school if he even bothers to come out here)

I'll pay for the Guy Fawkes mask if need be. 

[pete0]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/opinion/think-corbyn-is-a-danger-to-britain-heres-how-youve-been-brainwashed/12/12/?fbclid=IwAR12Tq6xTQp_2F7Gu6AzzPKsIYYVPu8JDN8p2vG-RX8veKE_14SCWRTLPJw

Bit condescending but I guess it is aimed at idiots who believe everything they've read about Corbyn. 

[pete0]

https://getvoting.org/?fbclid=IwAR0fl9v7nXSFLrNGgIDPqLZzBWNNWrb7HL1WBNZlQeyC-VVBie1VjLSm8NY

Tactical voting tool for the closest rival to the tories in your area (assuming you're not going for a full brexit party). 

And if you need any more reasons not to vote for them here's another shocker from one of their MPs. 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-mp-defends-jacob-rees-20818947?fbclid=IwAR3Y70oGzM8P_nC2vm1iCAvdMwYQC_FZAQovW5QMoq_DdgxvqCKSV16jSb8

[Palfy]

18 hours ago, TallPaul1878 said:

We don't want no stinkin' suvverners comin' up here n gentrifying the place.

Keep yer posh nosh down there will ya

We are only trying to help break the north south divide, which northern folk are always smarting about

Voiced from a Geordie with a southern spin, who likes fish and chips from South Shields quayside

[pete0]

https://mobile.twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1191864421863305217

 

[MikeO]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-50283520

Unsurprising.