General Election/UK Politics

[Sibdane]

5 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Then why are Asian students allowed to flourish? Does that not fly in the face of white supremacists? What are the policies that cause black americans to struggle? Who are the people in the institutions that are holding them down? Are there other external factors involved? What are the barriers to entry?

"Allowed" isn't the right word here. You have to consider the socioeconomic factors across different backgrounds. It's not so black and white (no pun intended) as you're trying to make it seem. 

Those with the most money more often than not will have a better access to education, more opportunities, greater ability to get out of legal trouble, etc. 

[markjazzbassist]

6 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Then why are Asian students allowed to flourish? Does that not fly in the face of white supremacists? What are the policies that cause black americans to struggle? Who are the people in the institutions that are holding them down? Are there other external factors involved? What are the barriers to entry?

i don't know where you get were asians are flourishing.  plenty struggle too.  new orleans has a large vietnamese population that doesn't do well and they have massive gangs.  i blame capitalism and greed.  rich want more, they take from the middle class and poor.  they move to more exclusive cities which takes resources and tax money away from the cities so the poor and middle class suffer more, the schools suffer more.  their parents jobs suffer because the rich want more tax cuts and so the middle class and poor pay more.  this keeps them oppressed.  the majority of african americans live in the cities (by that i mean not suburbs) where the schools are bad, housing is bad, etc.  but they can't leave, they don't have the resources to leave and move to the nice suburbs.  

[MikeO]

5 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Honestly I think globalism has a lot to answer for. It has robbed men of their jobs, it has led to the collapse of the nuclear family and it has led to the erosion of community cohesion.

Couldn't disagree more, don't understand the logic. Perhaps we should go back to feudalism? Where in the middle of the two do you think would be best?

[MikeO]

45 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

The industrial revolution has had disastrous consequences for mankind and the environment. Apart from modern healthcare and sanitation humanity has achieved nothing to improve the lives of ordinary people.

So despite the down-vote to my previous answer you think feudalism was great and the industrial revolution was a big mistake?

Let's get back to the old times where people knew their place eh? Sadly genie can't be put back in the bottle though, we evolve.

[Bailey]

On 16/02/2020 at 00:16, pete0 said:

Any evidence of that? Beyond the North West I don't see any rich boroughs voting Labour. 

The whole point of a politician is to put your country and the people before yourself. Earning potential shouldn't come into it as if you're doing that you're not gonna maximise the wellbeing of the county. 

This is just madness. Basically what you are saying is that politicians should be wealthy enough to be able to not earn or only earn a very minimal wage. Either that or someone who is not learned or skilful enough to earn a better wage doing a job to earn more money for their family. 

I just can't get my head around how on earth you think that could ever be a realistic idea.

On 16/02/2020 at 20:44, pete0 said:

Fundamentally communism is great. Unfortunately it's historically abused by far rights. Just look at the terrible far left scandanavian countries, would you not want to be more like them. Happier, everyone happier. 

The BBC has been proven to be bias towards the right. Literally this current government are replicating the nazis with their help and the rest of the media. 

 

Communism abused by the far right? What are you smoking. 

Communism doesn't work because someone has to be in charge. It may work in small groups where everyone can effectively have a say but essentially Communism is a dictatorship. The leading party gradually take steps to protect their own position and weaken their rivals, as is human nature unfortunately. 

You also have to rethink your Scandinavian "socialist" countries again. We have done this before. They are not. They use many of the things you claim to hate in order to balance the bits you like.

4 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

i agree that in theory communism is a great thing.  Same with Socialism.  I believe everyone is equal and should be treated as such.  that's what i agreed with.

That belief is not socialism or Communism in my opinion. That just means your a good person, who has been brought up we and has nothing to do with being to the left or right.

The question is why should the people who go out in life to make the best of themselves be valued at the same level as those that dont. Do you believe a highly skilled and successful worker (let's say Doctor) should be treated the same as a lowly skilled and underperforming one? Should an astronaut get the same pay as a truck driver? Should the best footballer in the country get paid the same as the worst? Who decides what vocation people get to do? What if one year no-one wants to be a midwife and there is a shortage. Who picks and selects who does what? 

I know this is aimed at communism that socialism, but it's just a bonkers pie in the sky idea that only holds people back rather than allows them to be the best they can be. 

Everyone should treat eachother with the same respect as they would expect to be treated with. If the whole world just did that we would all live much fairer, happier and successful lives. 

[pete0]

7 minutes ago, Bailey said:

This is just madness. Basically what you are saying is that politicians should be wealthy enough to be able to not earn or only earn a very minimal wage. Either that or someone who is not learned or skilful enough to earn a better wage doing a job to earn more money for their family. 

I just can't get my head around how on earth you think that could ever be a realistic idea.

Not madness at all. If wealth was shared more fairly there wouldn't be a massive difference from the bottom to the top. If an MP needs to earn more than the average wage then they're not doing a very good job for everyone. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/youngest-mp-salary-charity-workers-labour-nadia-whittome-a9246686.html%3famp

That skills argument is bollocks. Fair enough harder jobs deserve more pay. But compare a doctor to a nurse, both work just as hard albeit a doctor has a higher skill set. Do they really deserve to making 4x more than a nurse? 

Biggest irk is shareholders. Absolute sham of an idea. Beyond the initial cash investment when first distributed they are just stocks that are meaningless beyond what market powers say. Profits should be shared much more with workers, unions have been destroyed and the rich are getting richer without having any skills or putting in hard graft. Basically the same with landlords too, look at the richest family in the country the Grosvernors. What do they actually do? 

[pete0]

18 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Communism abused by the far right? What are you smoking. 

Communism doesn't work because someone has to be in charge. It may work in small groups where everyone can effectively have a say but essentially Communism is a dictatorship. The leading party gradually take steps to protect their own position and weaken their rivals, as is human nature unfortunately. 

You also have to rethink your Scandinavian "socialist" countries again. We have done this before. They are not. They use many of the things you claim to hate in order to balance the bits you like.

Pretty sure it'd work with someone in charge who has strong moral values like Corbyn. You've even given a pretty good example about small communities so I don't see how you're struggling with the concept/idealogy of it working. 

It's a poor excuse to say human nature. It's not, it's not for people like me, Mike, Shukes, MJB and probably many more on here. Others do ruin it though and I would gladly move to another planet with the rest of us hippies. 

[Palfy]

9 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Everyone should treat eachother with the same respect as they would expect to be treated with. If the whole world just did that we would all live much fairer, happier and successful lives. 

That sounds very much like socialism, pleased you’ve seen the light brother, that sentiment couldn’t be attributed to the leadership of Johnson and Trump and their governments, that are systematically punishing the people in society that require the most help. 

[Palfy]

11 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Sounds nothing like socialism and you know it! Altruism and egalitarianism are not the sole preserve of the far left.

You don’t find them within the far right that’s for sure, you find more people are inline with parties like the BNP, and we all know what they stand for. 

[pete0]

8 hours ago, TallPaul1878 said:

No chance it'd work. As a skilled worker I'd be off in a shot as would anyone else with a brain cell in their head. Why on earth would I choose to take such a career if an even larger portion of my wage has to be given over to those who CANNOT and WILL NOT do the job? Not my fault people are thick and lazy!

Doctors earn more than nurses because it is precisely a far more skilled job. We all respect the job that nurses do but seriously it is not that highly skilled. It just isn't!

Nothing to do with thick and lazy, it's education and opportunity. I'm sure there's 1000s of people who could do your job with the right training. Hate to break it you but all of us are replaceable no matter what skills. 

You obviously don't respect nurses, I'd argue you have very little understanding of respect. But I'll not digress into your superior complex. Back to the question in hand how can you justify the salary disparity between doctors and nurses, one can afford luxury holidays and some of the other is having to use food banks to get by. Better yet, how can you even justify wages and benefits being that low that food banks have become a thing.

[Bailey]

15 hours ago, pete0 said:

Not madness at all. If wealth was shared more fairly there wouldn't be a massive difference from the bottom to the top. If an MP needs to earn more than the average wage then they're not doing a very good job for everyone. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/youngest-mp-salary-charity-workers-labour-nadia-whittome-a9246686.html%3famp

That skills argument is bollocks. Fair enough harder jobs deserve more pay. But compare a doctor to a nurse, both work just as hard albeit a doctor has a higher skill set. Do they really deserve to making 4x more than a nurse? 

Biggest irk is shareholders. Absolute sham of an idea. Beyond the initial cash investment when first distributed they are just stocks that are meaningless beyond what market powers say. Profits should be shared much more with workers, unions have been destroyed and the rich are getting richer without having any skills or putting in hard graft. Basically the same with landlords too, look at the richest family in the country the Grosvernors. What do they actually do? 

Yes doctors do. I know I couldn't be a specialist doctor. I could maybe get to a GP with the right amount of application but I would expect that I could be a nurse. You make it sound as though it's easy to be a doctor.

"Beyond the initial cash investment". So how do businesses start when they aren't getting people to invest in their ideas? 

If workers have a problem with their boss they should take the risk themselves and go out on their own. Then they can see how hard it is to start, run and manage a business. Then they can share whatever they want with whoever, it's a free world. If it was easy, everyone would do it and we wouldn't be having this conversation because everyone would be empowered by their breakaway bosses.

15 hours ago, pete0 said:

Pretty sure it'd work with someone in charge who has strong moral values like Corbyn. You've even given a pretty good example about small communities so I don't see how you're struggling with the concept/idealogy of it working. 

It's a poor excuse to say human nature. It's not, it's not for people like me, Mike, Shukes, MJB and probably many more on here. Others do ruin it though and I would gladly move to another planet with the rest of us hippies. 

Corbyn . Nepotism was rife under Labour with him. Likewise he promoted his followers over those better skilled in the job. Who puts Diane Abbott anywhere else but as a lollipop woman? 

Small groups is relatively easy. 10 people in a community on an island somewhere might work. There is no money, only survival, so everyone has no choice but to chip in. Try and implement that into any developed country or even in an island group of 50+ people and it will fall apart because a group of people have to lead, another group will want to lead and some will want to do as little as possible. 

14 hours ago, Palfy said:

That sounds very much like socialism, pleased you’ve seen the light brother, that sentiment couldn’t be attributed to the leadership of Johnson and Trump and their governments, that are systematically punishing the people in society that require the most help. 

Socialism is a political and economic theory. Being nice to each other should be a given. 

FWIW this Boris Govt is probably as centrist as any previous Tory government. What has he done as PM to punish people?

14 hours ago, Palfy said:

You don’t find them within the far right that’s for sure, you find more people are inline with parties like the BNP, and we all know what they stand for. 

Same with the far left. They are extremists and thankfully there is very little of them in mainstream UK politics. 

13 hours ago, pete0 said:

Nothing to do with thick and lazy, it's education and opportunity. I'm sure there's 1000s of people who could do your job with the right training. Hate to break it you but all of us are replaceable no matter what skills. 

You obviously don't respect nurses, I'd argue you have very little understanding of respect. But I'll not digress into your superior complex. Back to the question in hand how can you justify the salary disparity between doctors and nurses, one can afford luxury holidays and some of the other is having to use food banks to get by. Better yet, how can you even justify wages and benefits being that low that food banks have become a thing.

You're so naive. There are so many people who don't give enough of shit, no matter how well you train them. I work with a lot of aspiring young men and women who want a career in law and I can assure you that it has nothing to do with education and opportunity. To a lot of people work pays the bills and it's an inconvenience. 

I am not saying that education and upbringing don't have a large part to play in getting someone into that position, but when in that position, it's clear that some people care and some people don't. 

[MikeO]

https://t.co/J6Il5u4frJ?amp=1

[Palfy]

35 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

The BNP have been eradicated. They got Nick Griffin on TV, exposed his policies and the general public roundly ridiculed them. Since then the BNP have had literally no presence in politics any more. Apart from one sole nutter committing a heinous act by murdering Jo Cox the far right is by and large a bogeyman that the media trots out to try and downplay rising nationalism.

Nationalism in and of itself is not a bad thing. It's just in-group preference on a large scale. Something that the left is also very keen on (surveys suggest left leaning people are much more intolerant of right leaning people than vice versa). Japan is by and large a homogenous nationalist country and they are hardly committing atrocities on a large scale. Since the end of WW2 a multi-cultural Britain has been involved in countless foreign wars resulting in the deaths and displacement of MILLIONS of innocent people.

You accuse the left of being loud and aggressive, yet the most loud and aggressive are the right nationalist parties and their followers, they change their names but can’t change that they are full of racist thugs, who go out of there way to beat people and disrupt peaceful marches that don’t  suit their ideology, of a white British society. 

[MikeO]

36 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

So?

So I was just linking an article/interview that demonstrated that someone was proposing a system that, had it been in place when she was a lass, would possibly have stopped her achieving all she has because her parents wouldn't have had enough "points" to get permission to move here.

The idea that we (and others) can trawl the globe and pick out all the best and brightest and leave the third world to muddle by with whoever's left is reprehensible to me. There's a football analogy in there somewhere with the major powers picking the cream off the top, just doesn't taste right to me.

[Palfy]

1 minute ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Milkshake anyone? To be fair that's because the left are hopeless at fighting, always have been. Instead they go for character assassination, censorship and unpersoning. That's what happens when your groups are made up of students, hippy pensioners and degenerates.

In fact I can't help but laugh at the hypocrisy of loud mouth lefty celebs and politicians who preach multiculturalism whilst living in their exclusive all white enclaves.

The left is obsessed with race and identity politics because that is all they have. When all your arguments fail just cry RACISTS. That's sure to work. The left doesn't really care about human beings, they've been wedded to neo-liberal capitalists for decades.

Oh I see you changed your mind now the left can’t fight, a few post ago they were the aggressors.

[Palfy]

Just now, TallPaul1878 said:

What has being good at fighting got to do with being aggressive? Extinction Rebellion are pretty useless in a scrap but they are quite aggressive in their methods to disrupt ordinary working class folk when they are trying to get to work to keep the wolves from the door.

Bit of a silly argument to make but I was expecting a few straw men.

Nothing, but you’re the one who brought that into argument not me, you spout off so much you forget what you’ve said, then completely contradict yourself in later posts. 
And another thing which shows your true colours is the bunch of dislikes you handed out, that from the man who last year was crying about how upset he was because he received dislikes, and he was going through tough times and getting dislikes was effecting you emotionally, a bit shit that you would do the same thing, but that’s the right for you just care about themselves and no one else. 
 

[Palfy]

6 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

I'm not prepared to discuss my personal situation online with you and I see you are still keeping up with the ad hom attacks because your arguments have dried up. Keeping playing the man rather than the ball hey. There's enough salt in your posts to keep the local chippy going for the next month.

You've tried to tar me as a tory and I've shot it down, you've tried to tar me as a fascist and I've shot it down. You haven't got a scooby do about me so crack on son.

You’ve tarred yourself with your hypocrisy, you can call someone a commie in a derogatory way, you can call someone a cunt, you can handout dislikes, but when it happens to you you start blubbering

[Palfy]

4 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Still playing the man rather than the ball. Stopped making a point ages ago didn't you. Head's gone! I called you names because we both know full well where you were going. Trying your damned hardest to call me a Nazi or whatever "ist" or "ism" you could tag me with and I got frustrated with it.

You've never had a point in this thread as others have also called your posts out and a damn sight better than I do.

You've been queuing up your accusations and ended up trying to attack my mental health instead. Pretty pathetic really.

I have a different political opinion to you and you simply can't accept it so you do what all far lefties do and try to shut it down.

I feel sorry for you. I always look back and reflect on my posts, often I regret them and am open to change my opinion. It's a shame you aren't able to do the same. A bit of introspection goes a long way.

I didn’t call you a racist I didn’t even mention Nazi, you didn’t call me a commie or a cunt that’s what you called Pete after he undermined your argument.  
I’m not attacking your mental health, I’m attacking the fact that you think it’s acceptable to give out dislikes, yet cry when you receive them, please tell me why you have double standards when it comes to dislikes. 
For the record I’m not far left but I am left of centre, and please don’t feel sorry for me I’m doing okay thanks, family and health are in a good place. 
Rather than just reflect on your posts and regret some, why don’t you apologise to Pete for what you called him, or don’t you regret that. 
I’m not going to respond to your next post because I have nothing more to add to this argument, so I’m giving you the last word on this so fill your boots. 

[pete0]

8 hours ago, Bailey said:

Yes doctors do. I know I couldn't be a specialist doctor. I could maybe get to a GP with the right amount of application but I would expect that I could be a nurse. You make it sound as though it's easy to be a doctor.

"Beyond the initial cash investment". So how do businesses start when they aren't getting people to invest in their ideas? 

If workers have a problem with their boss they should take the risk themselves and go out on their own. Then they can see how hard it is to start, run and manage a business. Then they can share whatever they want with whoever, it's a free world. If it was easy, everyone would do it and we wouldn't be having this conversation because everyone would be empowered by their breakaway bosses.

Intellectually learning to become a doctor is more challenging*, but looking at the day to day job a nurse is going through just as much, more so if you compare them to a GP. If I had the skills to do both and both paid the same I'd choose GP over a nurse every time, wouldn't you? 

*but half the population could with the right education. I've met many trainee doctors at uni that would make you rather treat yourself. 

You've completely missed the point. Most companies when they issue shares are already established. They could easily go the bank and get a good rate. But that's not the point I'm making. Look at say Apple, already a billion pound company, if you have share and I buy it from you Apple get nothing. I'd then be entitled to a dividend from Apples profits. The company doesn't benefit, only people who do are those who hold dividends (and you as a seller if the shares price has gone up*). This makes those in the company who have divs more likely to pay high dividends for their own benefit rather than use profits to invest in itself and in its staff. 

*the profit made from the shares going up are a false economy. A less corrupt government would never have allowed such markets to exist. Its only if the major issues in sorting out the capitalist clusterfuck world we live in. 

The world doesn't work that way anyone. Capitalist with their oligopolies have made it near impossible for people to just up and leave and go make it on their own. Plus it shouldn't be about having to put up or shut up. Companies and the government should treat people better. Supermarkets make £100s of millions profits and pay the top eye watering amounts yet the people who do the majority of the work barely earn above minimum wage. Why should that not be shared more evenly? How about born landlords like the Grosvenors, they make money just by their great great great grandad owning all the land. That not hard  work putting billions on the banks, what's your justification for people like that? 

[pete0]

@Bailey

Lost my post and really cba redoing it. Might respond to the rest later. 

Any how in other news the nasty party getting their magic calculators out again. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/51560120?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR3WKpZZ8AczFyzX1zbBcdm90YwjJi0VUNxoYKHew0Y4aCHT4watQIJMGbk

[pete0]

 

https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2020/02/19/the-end-of-free-movement-this-is-a-nation-dismantling-itself?fbclid=IwAR01T9DOPRow1xcftzRrw3oCA0Oxb1KlDk37mahdexu8GL9mi8zIpqAYFbc

[Palfy]

4 hours ago, pete0 said:

 

https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2020/02/19/the-end-of-free-movement-this-is-a-nation-dismantling-itself?fbclid=IwAR01T9DOPRow1xcftzRrw3oCA0Oxb1KlDk37mahdexu8GL9mi8zIpqAYFbc

That was a everything I believe to be true the nationalism in the country will prove to be the death of this country. 
We may be in the top six rich countries In the world, but that is due to the freedoms we have with our biggest trading partners in the EU, but that has been dismantled for what an uncertain future, and why because of bigotry and nationalism from people who have no answers to what a future Briton will look like.  
Tearing up trade deals and closing borders   will not make us a better or stronger country, it will weaken us as a country in every way imaginable. 

[Hafnia]

12 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Will somebody think of the billionaires. Those evil Brexiteers and nationalists want British people to have a fair chance at a job rather than compete at the lowest rung of the career ladder with an endless supply of foreign labour.

Construction workers are already starting to see wage increases (9%) as the supply of cheap foreign labour is starting to dry up. These poor old house builders won't be able to pocket £80m a year in bonuses. They're even going to have to kick start their apprenticeship programmes to train up and encourage young people into the career. They'll have to tighten up on safety and working standards as they'll just see their work force move to a rival company if they don't.

Somebody think of those posh restaurant owners who are going bust anyway due to their businesses never being viable in the first place. How will they get by without modern slave labour on zero hour contracts being paid cash in hand? 

"But muh NHS, but muh care workers". The percentage of foreign nationals working in the health service is directly proportional to the amount of foreign nationals living in the country. Well pay the carers and nurses more, it's that simple. Get rid of the stealth privatisation of the health service and have care workers working for the NHS again so that greedy execs can't cream off a profit from the budget before they've even sent a carer out to work. Middle class pensioners have had the young over a barrel for years, they're going to have to start paying for their extended healthcare rather than hoarding money away or spending it on round the world cruises. It is immoral to expect the next generation to pick up the tab for the most expensive one that has ever lived.

My wife has been an exceptional nurse looking after children for over 20 years.

She never looked at a £ sign when choosing her vocation... because that's what it is - a vocation.

After 20 years of being called in to work on Christmas, because she was happy to with colleagues having children.... after 7 years of no pay rises. After a few years of being told her work pattern would change for the worst she is completely disillusioned.  Her colleagues ask how she is able to knock back extra shifts, how she can go on holidays etc and that's because with my income we can.......  my income is generated from doing a far less important job than my wife and that is wrong. 

The government have abused the goodwill of the good honest NHS staff for too long. 

[Hafnia]

13 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

I have no doubt that your wife has been a great servant to the health service and I have never suggested that they deserve to be undervalued. I wholeheartedly agree that they all deserve a pay rise. My argument has always been that governments, like businesses have had no incentive to pay good wages because there has always been a ready made alternative that can be imported on the cheap.

Have you ever played empire building or city building games like Civilisation or Sim City? Governments and businesses really do see people as individual units of trade. When you are talking about millions of "units" it is inevitable they get dehumanised.

They prey on people who have good hearts... but yes they will also prey on the desperate.

[MikeO]

https://www.thecanary.co/uk/analysis/2020/02/19/the-dwp-is-now-fighting-the-high-court-over-universal-credit/

[Palfy]

5 hours ago, Hafnia said:

My wife has been an exceptional nurse looking after children for over 20 years.

She never looked at a £ sign when choosing her vocation... because that's what it is - a vocation.

After 20 years of being called in to work on Christmas, because she was happy to with colleagues having children.... after 7 years of no pay rises. After a few years of being told her work pattern would change for the worst she is completely disillusioned.  Her colleagues ask how she is able to knock back extra shifts, how she can go on holidays etc and that's because with my income we can.......  my income is generated from doing a far less important job than my wife and that is wrong. 

The government have abused the goodwill of the good honest NHS staff for too long. 

Your right Haf it is a vocation, and successive governments have taken advantage of the care and compassion our nurses have for their job and the people they look after. 
My sister in law is a matron only one of two in Swindon’s GWH, she try’s her best to look out for the welfare of the nurses under her, but is very much restricted by middle management who we don’t see driving budgets down to save their jobs. 
Nurse as you said didn’t go into their profession for the money, you’re never going to be rich being a nurse end of, but what they do want is the facilities and the tools to do their jobs to the best of their abilities, not struggling to give the care they want because the wards are bursting to breaking point and there isn’t enough staff on duty, so they are constantly under pressure and stressed. 
And that’s nothing to do with migrant labour it’s to do with the funding of the NHS. 
My sister in law has lost friends and good nurses to the private sector, not just because of the money but because of better working conditions and quality of their own life’s and health, her close friend who she went to school and trained with who became a sister, left the NHS last year to work for a plastic surgeon in Bristol   Cheap tits and a nose job as well

[pete0]

 

[MikeO]

6 hours ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Have you been watching the TV programme about it? What an unmitigated disaster!

I've not seen the programme but I've lived UC for reasons I won't elaborate on here. Problems (that I've come across) are....

1-Some areas are fully up to speed on it and all done online while others still rely on endless waiting on hold on a phone.

2-Moving from an area that has one system to another that is different is apocalyptic.

3-In the computer only areas you really need to be highly tech savvy to navigate through the process and prove your identity; basically if you don't have two of passport/driving licence/bank card you're fucked. Many of the poorest in our society have none of those.

Lucky that I have the means to assist and overcome these issues for those close to me affected by it, so financial hardship not been an issue. Staff in Job Centres have been almost universally great in ignoring/over-riding the rules when things have been explained to them (by me). Not their fault the system is so flawed; but, without blowing my own trumpet, not everyone has a "me" to hold their hand. It's shite and no surprise at all that it was the excuse for slime Ian Duncan-Smith who came up with it.

Its purpose is purely to give people as little as the DWP can get away with, not to give people what they need to live on. Disgusting.

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

 

Last year tons of fruit and veg that needed to be picked by hand was left to rot, because the migrants who would normally do the picking didn’t come. 
Where were the 8 million when they were needed, utter rubbish from the Tories again.

 I work in the construction industry and the amount of unskilled labour in the south West from South America in particular Brazil, is out stripping the unskilled labour from the EU, which is fair enough someone needs to do the jobs, and it’s clear like the fruit picking the unskilled unemployed Brits aren’t up for doing the work. 
 

But what confuses me the most is the Tories for the last decade have been banging on about closing our borders, yet they could have stopped every unskilled migrant worker coming in who wasn’t in the EU, but obviously they haven’t why is that I wonder, is it because the country is desperate and needs these people to keep the wheels of industry grinding, or is it just the unskilled migrants from the EU that we want to stop coming into the country.

Personally I would rather people working here who are from the EU than South America, purely because I fear South American’s come from more lawless societies, and live by different rules of what’s acceptable and what isn’t, which to be honest scares me for our children, who could fall fowl of this lawlessness on a night out in the town centres pub’s  and club's.

Am I being paranoid he really don’t know but it doesn’t feel a good mix to me.

 

[pete0]

On 19/02/2020 at 14:41, Bailey said:

Corbyn . Nepotism was rife under Labour with him. Likewise he promoted his followers over those better skilled in the job. Who puts Diane Abbott anywhere else but as a lollipop woman? 

Small groups is relatively easy. 10 people in a community on an island somewhere might work. There is no money, only survival, so everyone has no choice but to chip in. Try and implement that into any developed country or even in an island group of 50+ people and it will fall apart because a group of people have to lead, another group will want to lead and some will want to do as little as possible. 

I don't know enough about Abbott beyond the numbers cock up. (Boris done exactly the same without the same coverage or backlash. Just shows how bias our media is). I do remember someone on here defending her though. Quick Google https://cookingonabootstrap.com/2017/06/07/we-need-to-talk-about-diane-abbott-now-explicit-content/

You sort of hit the issue in the head when you mention money. Capitalism is what has made it more difficult, greed has not only been accepted it has been promoted. There's 1000s of people like myself who would happily see it work. Only thing is we have the greedy doing their best to make sure it doesn't happen. Corbyn would have been a step closer to it and you only have to look at the media's campaign to see how scared they were of their demise. If those in power were that scared surely you can see that it could work too?