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49 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

 


We’ve gained 13 points from losing positions

4 points with Koeman ( win against Bournemouth , draw with Brighton)

4 points under Unsworth

5 points under Allardyce ( the shite, Swansea and West Brom)

All 3 managers have played the kids at some point so I’m really struggling to see where the progress was made under Unsy

I can’t think of a single positive other than he’s no longer manager
 

Unsworth 4 points, Koeman 4 points, fat Sam 5 points, I haven't checked but I would think Unsworth got his points from less games than the others.

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Unsworth 4 points, Koeman 4 points, fat Sam 5 points, I haven't checked but I would think Unsworth got his points from less games than the others.

Yes he did , but as already pointed out Watford were on a poor run but were still cruising at 2-0 until we had 2 huge slices of luck , Gomes going off injured and the sub keeper having a mare to allow us back in it

Palace were rooted to the bottom of the table and had only managed 4 points all season yet still played us off the park and again we had 2 huge slices of luck, another gift from a keepers mistake and a dodgy penalty

But hey, if you think that’s progress fair enough that’s up to you, it’s just not my idea of progress




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8 hours ago, Shukes said:

Don’t think anyone thought it was progress at all. Weren’t we all up in arms at those defeats as well? As a fan I hate every defeat, I just hate losing all round. 

But losing to Arsenal in that way was just as bad for me. It’s the whole run we’ve been on and not just a result in isolation.

Chelsea got hammered by Watford, but I don’t think hey are light years behind Watford. On another day Chelsea would destroy them. But I do think we are light years behind Arsenal, in our play to a point but also in our application towards opponents. This is what is hurting the most!

 

7 hours ago, Palfy said:

I agree we are miles away in our tactics and application than Arsenal, yet not so long ago we beat a far better Arsenal team than the one we saw a couple of weeks ago 4-0 and never gave them a kick.

What's happened to us in such a short space of time is catastrophic, brought about by a new owner who has allowed Walsh to have to much of a voice in all things team related.

Both of your points hit the nail on the head. A lot of the teams around us might not be winning but they have their game plan, they are playing to it and maybe not getting the rub of the green. The players are playing for their manager and working hard to get a result for the fans. I dont have a fucking clue what Sams plan is (im not sure he does considering the Arsenal fiasco) and I dont really see the players playing for him either.

59 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:


Yes he did , but as already pointed out Watford were on a poor run but were still cruising at 2-0 until we had 2 huge slices of luck , Gomes going off injured and the sub keeper having a mare to allow us back in it

Palace were rooted to the bottom of the table and had only managed 4 points all season yet still played us off the park and again we had 2 huge slices of luck, another gift from a keepers mistake and a dodgy penalty

But hey, if you think that’s progress fair enough that’s up to you, it’s just not my idea of progress



 

We were outplayed by Watford but we still created a similar amount of chances as them and got more on target. I remember us missing two great chances before half time (and them missing one also).  Yes their keeper made a mistake, as their player was unlucky when he slipped but we were at least attacking them! Dont forget Keane gave the ball away cheaply for their goal, so there was average play all round. You say they were on a poor run but they had only lost to Chelsea and Stoke (toe to toe v Chelsea and battered Stoke without scoring) and then won the next two, so thats a redundant argument.

I dont know if you were watching Palace at the time but they were playing well at the time. We were crap against them but don't just dismiss them as a crap team and the same goes for Leicester which I know you have mentioned before and Pad has mentioned earlier in the thread. They had the new manager effect, we conceded early and battered them for the rest of the game but couldn't make the chances we needed to and they went on to lose only 1 game in 7. West Ham had a new manager and then went on a good run after us.

Even the embarrassment that was Soton, we had the Baines change to deal with meaning Kenny was at LB and Lennon was at RB, and for all that Southampton werent picking up points, at home they were playing well and creating chances. in 7 home games up to that point they should have beaten Swansea, United and Burnley, they did beat West Ham and WBA and they deservedly lost to an in form Watford and had an even game against Newcastle (they got a point). The next home game after ours, they drew with Arsenal.

On top of this, Unsy had to deal with trying to play midweek either in the league cup or Europa, the latter of which we had next to no chance of progressing through. I think in hindsight he might have played the kids in the Lyon game and taken the rest of the lads out of the limelight but it was a home game and he probably didn't want to expose them to a good side and frustrated Goodison crowd.

Of all 3 managers he had the hardest job. He had 2 games a week to deal with, he had players with no confidence whatsoever and he was playing teams in the league that in normal circumstances you would expect us to beat but given where both teams were at the time, from a form point of view they were in a better place than we were. Whilst Arsenal might have better players than your Leicesters or Watfords, at that moment in time, Arsenal were more vulnerable (for all that they had players with class who can take the game from you quickly) but we didn't compete against them.

Unsy didnt show me anything to say that he was going to be the next great manager but his time as caretaker was far from easy despite the names of the teams he played.

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We were outplayed by Watford but we still created a similar amount of chances as them and got more on target. I remember us missing two great chances before half time (and them missing one also).  Yes their keeper made a mistake, as their player was unlucky when he slipped but we were at least attacking them! Dont forget Keane gave the ball away cheaply for their goal, so there was average play all round. You say they were on a poor run but they had only lost to Chelsea and Stoke (toe to toe v Chelsea and battered Stoke without scoring) and then won the next two, so thats a redundant argument.
I dont know if you were watching Palace at the time but they were playing well at the time. We were crap against them but don't just dismiss them as a crap team and the same goes for Leicester which I know you have mentioned before and Pad has mentioned earlier in the thread. They had the new manager effect, we conceded early and battered them for the rest of the game but couldn't make the chances we needed to and they went on to lose only 1 game in 7. West Ham had a new manager and then went on a good run after us.
Even the embarrassment that was Soton, we had the Baines change to deal with meaning Kenny was at LB and Lennon was at RB, and for all that Southampton werent picking up points, at home they were playing well and creating chances. in 7 home games up to that point they should have beaten Swansea, United and Burnley, they did beat West Ham and WBA and they deservedly lost to an in form Watford and had an even game against Newcastle (they got a point). The next home game after ours, they drew with Arsenal.
On top of this, Unsy had to deal with trying to play midweek either in the league cup or Europa, the latter of which we had next to no chance of progressing through. I think in hindsight he might have played the kids in the Lyon game and taken the rest of the lads out of the limelight but it was a home game and he probably didn't want to expose them to a good side and frustrated Goodison crowd.
Of all 3 managers he had the hardest job. He had 2 games a week to deal with, he had players with no confidence whatsoever and he was playing teams in the league that in normal circumstances you would expect us to beat but given where both teams were at the time, from a form point of view they were in a better place than we were. Whilst Arsenal might have better players than your Leicesters or Watfords, at that moment in time, Arsenal were more vulnerable (for all that they had players with class who can take the game from you quickly) but we didn't compete against them.
Unsy didnt show me anything to say that he was going to be the next great manager but his time as caretaker was far from easy despite the names of the teams he played.

He played one game in the League Cup and capitulated in Europa League. I’ve deliberately not taken the Europa League games into account because of that. If we do take them into account Unsy looks even worse

The teams we played in the League during Unsworth’s reign were all in terrible form, admittedly Palace had started playing better but were not getting results, at the time yet all played us off the park bar West Ham , and that would have been a completely different story had they scored the pen, so I can’t see how you can say he had the hardest job

If anything Koeman had by far the hardest run of fixtures but he was a big part of creating this mess so I have no sympathy there


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2 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:


Yes he did , but as already pointed out Watford were on a poor run but were still cruising at 2-0 until we had 2 huge slices of luck , Gomes going off injured and the sub keeper having a mare to allow us back in it

Palace were rooted to the bottom of the table and had only managed 4 points all season yet still played us off the park and again we had 2 huge slices of luck, another gift from a keepers mistake and a dodgy penalty

But hey, if you think that’s progress fair enough that’s up to you, it’s just not my idea of progress

Dunc stop trying to make your argument, you give different reasons every time you reply, I used the figures you stated so now you say he had the worst opponents and had the most luck. !! 

Points is points and it doesn't matter who or how you play, He got the same amount of points from less games so I would call that improvement and progress.

I'm waiting with baited breath for your next explanation.

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1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:


He played one game in the League Cup and capitulated in Europa League. I’ve deliberately not taken the Europa League games into account because of that. If we do take them into account Unsy looks even worse

The teams we played in the League during Unsworth’s reign were all in terrible form, admittedly Palace had started playing better but were not getting results, at the time yet all played us off the park bar West Ham , and that would have been a completely different story had they scored the pen, so I can’t see how you can say he had the hardest job

If anything Koeman had by far the hardest run of fixtures but he was a big part of creating this mess so I have no sympathy there

 

They were all in better form than us. I think my post proved that. Everything you say is negative could have this could have that as if we hadn't of also fucked up then we might have won instead of losing. 

Koeman might have had the toughest run of fixtures but he had the team for 15 months or so and his own players. He had the easiest job of the lot!

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17 hours ago, Paddock said:

A lucky win against Watford you mean after their first choice keeper was injured and their second choice let us back in it and they missed a last gasp pen- Palace away were we got a dodgy penalty and another bad mistake let us back in it where we were played off the park both games? Battered by a dysfunctional (at the time)  Leicester team, drubbed by Lyon, Atalanta, Soton and the West Ham game will always be up for debate. 

I hate Allerdyce being here but lets not pretend we should have stuck with Unsworth because we were sinking like a stone with him in charge and as I’ve stated many times I don’t hold that against him because he was asked to do a job he was clearly not ready to do yet.

Deleted my out of order drunken slur!

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23 minutes ago, Shukes said:

You only see the negative things agai st is now, you dont see when we have shot and is luckily saved, or an easy chance that we miss. Why is it only concentrating on chances against us?

Genuinely don't think Pad is alone in that aspect. Other than Leicester and West Ham we've not been comfortably the better side and both of those were more a case of them being shite and we could have easily ended up ruing our chances for the latter. 

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Dunc stop trying to make your argument, you give different reasons every time you reply, I used the figures you stated so now you say he had the worst opponents and had the most luck. !! 
Points is points and it doesn't matter who or how you play, He got the same amount of points from less games so I would call that improvement and progress.
I'm waiting with baited breath for your next explanation.

I’ve said all along Unsworths run of games were against very poor sides who were struggling down the bottom of the table. The fact they all played us off the park is what convinced me Unsworth was out of his depth , so nothing has changed with my reasoning
If those performances and us heading rapidly in the wrong direction down the table table are good enough for you then fine that’s up to you

We will just have to agree to disagree because I think it does matter who you play and how you play.

That was a run of games where we should have picked up more points and put distance between ourselves and he relegation scrap . Don’t get me wrong I’m happy to take any point we can get but if you think Unsworth did enough to get the job permanently based on that then we have very different expectations of Everton Football Club
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13 hours ago, hafnia said:

Can't wait for him to go. The whole episode of this last season has been a complete and utter shambles. 

Btw I don't think he's applying himself to the role like I thought he would. Almost appears like he's going through the motions.... not even arsed. It's horrible. 

Cynically, I think he wants the sack and the big pay out. Pretty sure he's still pissed that we offered him low terms the 1st rime around, went for other targets and only accepted his high terms on the basis that No one was available . 

He's not doing anything well and the public call outs of the players is far worse than anything RK did.

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They were all in better form than us. I think my post proved that. Everything you say is negative could have this could have that as if we hadn't of also fucked up then we might have won instead of losing. 
Koeman might have had the toughest run of fixtures but he had the team for 15 months or so and his own players. He had the easiest job of the lot!

Are you having a laugh?

You are making it sound like we were playing sides in form

Palace had just sacked their manager and were bottom of the table and only had four points all season

Southampton I think had only scored 3 goals at home all season and fans were calling for Pellegrino’s head before they put 4 past us

Leicester were without a win in 6 and had just sacked their manager

West Ham again had just sacked the manager and were on a terrible run

They were all games we should be winning. If we were so shite against these lot I dread to think what would have happened has we played against the top 6

The reason I’m so negative is because there is absolutely nothing to be positive about this season

You tell me what is there to be positive about?



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10 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:


Are you having a laugh?

You are making it sound like we were playing sides in form

Palace had just sacked their manager and were bottom of the table and only had four points all season

Southampton I think had only scored 3 goals at home all season and fans were calling for Pellegrino’s head before they put 4 past us

Leicester were without a win in 6 and had just sacked their manager

West Ham again had just sacked the manager and were on a terrible run

They were all games we should be winning. If we were so shite against these lot I dread to think what would have happened has we played against the top 6

The reason I’m so negative is because there is absolutely nothing to be positive about this season

You tell me what is there to be positive about?


 

We were the 8th game for Roy Hodgson and Palace had beaten Chelsea and gone toe to toe with Spurs before playing us.

Southampton had only scored 6 goals at that point of the season but it wasnt through want of trying. Southampton averaged 15.9 shots per game creating 12.3 chances per game at home. Everton averaged 9.5 shots per game away and created 7.3 chances per game. Southampton should have been favourites to win that game. In fact the stats from that game more or less mirror Soton's previous form as they had 17 shots and 13 chances however we were a bit lower as we only had 5 shots and created 3 chances. The difference for Soton is that the finally found the net, part of which was due to the Baines reshuffle and if I remember rightly we went into a back 5 and Keane was fucking dreadful!

Leicester won the week before they played us.

It was Moyes' 3rd game and after us they played really well against City, beat Chelsea and drew with Arsenal. They were in a similar position to us at the time.

At the beginning of the season these were all games we should have been winning, but I doubt any of these were playing midweek, and bar West Ham, they were all in better form than us.

I doubt we could have been any worse against the top 6 than we have been this season as we haven't competed against any of them yet.

You are deliberately writing off our goals /clean sheets as luck and mistakes but then not taking the same into account for their goals / clean sheets etc.

What I have said above, and in my previous post, are mainly those facts that you love so much. Open your eyes, yes we were shit, but there were reasons for being that shit. Koeman didnt have those excuses and given the amount of time Allardyce has had, plus the window, he doesn't have those excuses either.

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10 hours ago, Lowensda said:

Cynically, I think he wants the sack and the big pay out. Pretty sure he's still pissed that we offered him low terms the 1st rime around, went for other targets and only accepted his high terms on the basis that No one was available . 

He's not doing anything well and the public call outs of the players is far worse than anything RK did.

My brother thinks exactly the same. One greedy bastard this slob. 

I can't believe we hired him.  Sack him and get Silva in. It's who we wanted.... 

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15 minutes ago, patto said:

I think maybe we can't go for Silver at the moment as he is trying to claim 750 k wages for remainder of contract.

But I fully expect us to be negotiating with him now.

I expect Silva to be doing full reccy work on us. Watching all players etc. 

Allardyce took pop shots at Silva when he arrived.... what the fuck was all that About?

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All 3 managers have failed or are failing this season- none have performed anywhere neat expectations. Unsworth failed just like Koeman did as Allerdyce is doing now. Because he’s loved he gets an easier ride than the others which is understandable but his results were no better than the other two. The players are a fucking disgrace as well by the way- we’re sitting here laying blame on managers when the likes of Schneiderli, Mirallas, Williams to name but 3 are half arsed closing down and strolling around like they don’t give a fuck- that’s with all 3 of those managers not just one and we’re having to rely on players like Niasse who is nowhere near good enough to bail us out with effort and will. It’s a fucking disgrace and the whole club should hang it’s head in shame.

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30 minutes ago, Paddock said:

All 3 managers have failed or are failing this season- none have performed anywhere neat expectations. Unsworth failed just like Koeman did as Allerdyce is doing now. Because he’s loved he gets an easier ride than the others which is understandable but his results were no better than the other two. The players are a fucking disgrace as well by the way- we’re sitting here laying blame on managers when the likes of Schneiderli, Mirallas, Williams to name but 3 are half arsed closing down and strolling around like they don’t give a fuck- that’s with all 3 of those managers not just one and we’re having to rely on players like Niasse who is nowhere near good enough to bail us out with effort and will. It’s a fucking disgrace and the whole club should hang it’s head in shame.

I don' think I've felt so disconnected to so many Everton players since the Smith days...

Williams:- Mr big man.... or so he thinks. Fuckin shite - came back to pre season looking like a fat journey man heavyweight boxer and is all hot air. Shite and is arrogant.

 

Mirallas:- gobshite. Talented player who let us down so many times because of his ego.

 

Schneiderlein:- yellow bellied overhyped player. Completely spineless and lacks character.

 

Keane:- save the interviews, get your head out your arse and focus on defending.

 

Rooney:-  came back 2 years too late. Moments of class but moments of complete indiscipline. 5 yards too slow, years of not looking after himself are showing.

 

Look at players like niasse, Coleman, Davies, DCL, gueye.. opinions vary on their ability but they do not hide, they have bottle and clearly care. 

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1 hour ago, hafnia said:

I don' think I've felt so disconnected to so many Everton players since the Smith days...

Williams:- Mr big man.... or so he thinks. Fuckin shite - came back to pre season looking like a fat journey man heavyweight boxer and is all hot air. Shite and is arrogant.

 

Mirallas:- gobshite. Talented player who let us down so many times because of his ego.

 

Schneiderlein:- yellow bellied overhyped player. Completely spineless and lacks character.

 

Keane:- save the interviews, get your head out your arse and focus on defending.

 

Rooney:-  came back 2 years too late. Moments of class but moments of complete indiscipline. 5 yards too slow, years of not looking after himself are showing.

 

Look at players like niasse, Coleman, Davies, DCL, gueye.. opinions vary on their ability but they do not hide, they have bottle and clearly care. 

I’d disagree with the Rooney shout- he gives 110% every time he plays. That’s without question.

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39 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

My prediction for the week...

This thread, and possibly the forum, will have a lot less posts.

Because we won, Cornish won't do the average points comparison thingy, as he didn't after the last win but did soon after the Arsenal dry bumming (although he will now, as I've said this!!!).

 

The gravy guzzler needs fucking off win, lose or draw as far as I’m concerned. 

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7 hours ago, hafnia said:

gueye.. opinions vary on their ability but they do not hide, they have bottle and clearly care. 

Gueye doesn't commit to takles, he's on par with Schneiderlin for being a shithouse. Look at the huge difference between them and McCarthy. McCarthy broke his leg busting a gut whereas them two have been in that situation many a time and just jogged back half arsed after their attempt to tackle is rode or ricocheted in the oppositions favour. 

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I don’t think there’s any scenario where Allardyce stays. I believe it was the plan all along to give him 6 months - the problem being he wouldn’t take a 6 month contract so we’ll have to pay him off 12 months - with the amount we’ve invested, that’s a drop in the ocean. Sam was brought to steady a rocking ship - he did initially and, despite a poor run, has and will probably amass enough points to give us a top half finish. Would Koeman or Unsworth have got us enough points? Probably but, at boardroom level, they had to weigh up the risk of not achiving that as missing out on the Premier League millions ruins everything - so go with Sam who has a CV boasting great success in what we needed short term. I’ve not enjoyed him but he was a safe short-term option.

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12 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Gueye doesn't commit to takles, he's on par with Schneiderlin for being a shithouse. Look at the huge difference between them and McCarthy. McCarthy broke his leg busting a gut whereas them two have been in that situation many a time and just jogged back half arsed after their attempt to tackle is rode or ricocheted in the oppositions favour. 

Disagree. Gueye lacks intelligence but given the right stewardship is a good player. He had Rooney alongside him today to talk him through.

He's got bottle and heart. Schneiderlein neither. 

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1 minute ago, hafnia said:

Disagree. Gueye lacks intelligence but given the right stewardship is a good player. He had Rooney alongside him today to talk him through.

He's got bottle and heart. Schneiderlein neither. 

Used this one as an example before but it tends to happen in most matches. He puts his foot in but it lacks conviction, then stands up without a care in the world and dawdles back. 

 

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1 hour ago, Newty82 said:

My prediction for the week...

This thread, and possibly the forum, will have a lot less posts.

Because we won, Cornish won't do the average points comparison thingy, as he didn't after the last win but did soon after the Arsenal dry bumming (although he will now, as I've said this!!!).

 

It frustrates me just as much, as he should have been playing this team last weekend however he decided to fuck around with almost everything! 

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54 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Gueye doesn't commit to takles, he's on par with Schneiderlin for being a shithouse. Look at the huge difference between them and McCarthy. McCarthy broke his leg busting a gut whereas them two have been in that situation many a time and just jogged back half arsed after their attempt to tackle is rode or ricocheted in the oppositions favour. 

McCarthy broke his leg b/c Morgan let his man walk past him. Rewatch it. Absolutely appauling. Just b/c you dislike Gana does not make up for the fact that Morgan has been the worst / most toxic player out there this season.

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