Richarlison

[Hafnia]

11 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Saw a tweet earlier along the lines of we're a club that's desperate to make a marquee signing, and that we pay marquee prices without getting the marquee player.

That sums up this move for me.

Pretty similar to what man city were doing when they first had the cash injection.  Buying santa cruz, bellamy, lescott, adebuyor, toure for top dollar.... 

The upside to this lad is far in advance of £40m so Silva and brands must believe that.  If he was to be a slight disappointment he would still probably go for £15-£20m.

Unfortunately until we get to the next level which is top4 - we are unlikely to be able to attract true marquee players... especially those who aren't 29 years old just looking for a retirement package.

I'm not entirely happy about this but I understand why we are doing it.  Get rid of bolassie for £15m, mirallas for a few mill, pay someone to take Williams... the squad will take a different shape.  Let's hope for the much better. 

[Finn balor]

Top post 

[EFC-Paul]

He improves the first 11 which is what matters to me personally ATM 

Large fee and obviously with all transfers carries a big risk but the markets fucked and we are paying for potential, if the lad cracks on which I think he will under Silva his fee will be justified 

We need to bring in a Loftus-Cheek type now who can augment our midfield 

[Haiku]

1 hour ago, hafnia said:

Pretty similar to what man city were doing when they first had the cash injection.  Buying santa cruz, bellamy, lescott, adebuyor, toure for top dollar.... 

The upside to this lad is far in advance of £40m so Silva and brands must believe that.  If he was to be a slight disappointment he would still probably go for £15-£20m.

Unfortunately until we get to the next level which is top4 - we are unlikely to be able to attract true marquee players... especially those who aren't 29 years old just looking for a retirement package.

I'm not entirely happy about this but I understand why we are doing it.  Get rid of bolassie for £15m, mirallas for a few mill, pay someone to take Williams... the squad will take a different shape.  Let's hope for the much better. 

It doesn't need to be like that. Why can't we find the next Richarlison from Brazil directly and buy him for reasonable £10-15m price, just like Watford did one year ago? isn'tt that what we brought Brands for?

[Romey 1878]

1 hour ago, hafnia said:

Pretty similar to what man city were doing when they first had the cash injection.  Buying santa cruz, bellamy, lescott, adebuyor, toure for top dollar.... 

The upside to this lad is far in advance of £40m so Silva and brands must believe that.  If he was to be a slight disappointment he would still probably go for £15-£20m.

Unfortunately until we get to the next level which is top4 - we are unlikely to be able to attract true marquee players... especially those who aren't 29 years old just looking for a retirement package.

I'm not entirely happy about this but I understand why we are doing it.  Get rid of bolassie for £15m, mirallas for a few mill, pay someone to take Williams... the squad will take a different shape.  Let's hope for the much better. 

Mate, you've been on drugs if you think anyone will pay £15m for Bolasie  There's more chance of getting that for Mirallas and that chance is zero!

I think my main problem with this Richarlison deal is that I simply don't rate him and that's why I find the fee ridiculous. He hasn't been here long enough to even hint at that early form being something he's consistently capable of and that it wasn't just a purple patch that a lot of players have at the beginning. Is the odd game or two every once in a while going to be worth the £35m/£40m/£50m (or whatever it ends up being)? I'm willing to pay anything to get quality but I just don't feel it with him. 

Maybe if we hadn't been burned so often recently by paying massive fees for players that either were never worth it in the first place, or didn't live up to what we hoped, then I'd be far more inclined to take this one on the chin for potential reward. But this just feels like more of the same from last summer and I thought things were going to be better with Brands.

[nyblue23]

1 hour ago, EFC-Paul said:

He improves the first 11 which is what matters to me personally ATM 

Large fee and obviously with all transfers carries a big risk but the markets fucked and we are paying for potential, if the lad cracks on which I think he will under Silva his fee will be justified 

We need to bring in a Loftus-Cheek type now who can augment our midfield 

Does he, though?

[Makis]

He's better than anything we have for that position so yes. 

[EFC-Paul]

30 minutes ago, nyblue23 said:

Does he, though?

I wouldn't have put it if I didn't think it 

Quick big and strong skillful and bags of potential a big upgrade on Yannick in my eyes (not hard) 

[Hafnia]

2 hours ago, Haiku said:

It doesn't need to be like that. Why can't we find the next Richarlison from Brazil directly and buy him for reasonable £10-15m price, just like Watford did one year ago? isn'ttt that what we brought Brands for?

Yeah like lookman and vlassic... £20m for the 2. Richarlison has proven to be an effective player under Silva in the prem. 

[Bailey]

2 hours ago, Haiku said:

It doesn't need to be like that. Why can't we find the next Richarlison from Brazil directly and buy him for reasonable £10-15m price, just like Watford did one year ago? isn'ttt that what we brought Brands for?

 

I can only presume that with both him and Silva coming in quite late, the world cup and the short window it is going to be a bit more difficult to plan long term in just 1 window. With the deals like the Richarlison one (when he joined Watford from Brazil), who just never know how he is going to settle and adapt to the English game. In this window, Brands and Silva cant afford a player to take time to settle in so in the key positions it looks like they are heading for more tried and trusted players, albeit ones that are still at a good age and not approaching their last contracts. Richarlison has been here for a year, Digne has played all across Europe, Loftus-Cheek has now had a full season in the league and Mina (who is probably the biggest risk) has spent time at one of the biggest clubs in Europe.

Lets see how things develop over time and then we can judge them both over a series of windows when they both have their feet firmly under the table.

[EFC-Paul]

12 minutes ago, Bailey said:

 

I can only presume that with both him and Silva coming in quite late, the world cup and the short window it is going to be a bit more difficult to plan long term in just 1 window. With the deals like the Richarlison one (when he joined Watford from Brazil), who just never know how he is going to settle and adapt to the English game. In this window, Brands and Silva cant afford a player to take time to settle in so in the key positions it looks like they are heading for more tried and trusted players, albeit ones that are still at a good age and not approaching their last contracts. Richarlison has been here for a year, Digne has played all across Europe, Loftus-Cheek has now had a full season in the league and Mina (who is probably the biggest risk) has spent time at one of the biggest clubs in Europe.

Lets see how things develop over time and then we can judge them both over a series of windows when they both have their feet firmly under the table.

Pretty much my thoughts

[Shukes]

We also need to remember that Brands is a DOF and not a scout.

His job will be to set up a scouting network and have them going to our to find talent... that doesn’t happen overnight.

[Haiku]

3 minutes ago, Shukes said:

We also need to remember that Brands is a DOF and not a scout.

His job will be to set up a scouting network and have them going to our to find talent... that doesn’t happen overnight.

But he's the one who brings players into the club. He should have a shortlist of targets he knows from his time at PSV.

[Finn balor]

You have to remember the market shifts due to the World Cup. For all we know Lozano was a shoe in 

[Shukes]

11 minutes ago, Haiku said:

But he's the one who brings players into the club. He should have a shortlist of targets he knows from his time at PSV.

No he isn’t though, your mixing him up with a chief scout. The DOF is involved in everything to do with the club. He will manage a team that scouts and brings players in, and then he may be involved in negotiations, but he will have a team scouting and bringing players to the table.

Brands position is not a scout. He is director of football. He is involved in the team, staff and facilities. 

[markjazzbassist]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

 

I can only presume that with both him and Silva coming in quite late, the world cup and the short window it is going to be a bit more difficult to plan long term in just 1 window. With the deals like the Richarlison one (when he joined Watford from Brazil), who just never know how he is going to settle and adapt to the English game. In this window, Brands and Silva cant afford a player to take time to settle in so in the key positions it looks like they are heading for more tried and trusted players, albeit ones that are still at a good age and not approaching their last contracts. Richarlison has been here for a year, Digne has played all across Europe, Loftus-Cheek has now had a full season in the league and Mina (who is probably the biggest risk) has spent time at one of the biggest clubs in Europe.

Lets see how things develop over time and then we can judge them both over a series of windows when they both have their feet firmly under the table.

Top post, I agree

[Newty82]

2 hours ago, Haiku said:

But he's the one who brings players into the club. He should have a shortlist of targets he knows from his time at PSV.

But will his list of targets from PSV be suitable for a much tougher Premier League?

[aaron]

Bill, I believe you can post your “within 48 hours” and be spot on this time! 

[Bill]

I reckon it will be done n dusted in 48 hrs, tho I also wish Digne was.

[nyblue23]

6 hours ago, EFC-Paul said:

I wouldn't have put it if I didn't think it 

Quick big and strong skillful and bags of potential a big upgrade on Yannick in my eyes (not hard) 

My dead grandma is better than Bolasie. Not so convinced he’s better than Lookman and Vlasic.

[Bailey]

5 hours ago, Haiku said:

But he's the one who brings players into the club. He should have a shortlist of targets he knows from his time at PSV.

See below...

3 hours ago, Newty82 said:

But will his list of targets from PSV be suitable for a much tougher Premier League?

Exactly Newts. If PSV needed a right back, starting GK and quick right winger and he had utilised his scouts to find these type of players then its pretty useless for us. 

[EFC-Paul]

3 hours ago, nyblue23 said:

My dead grandma is better than Bolasie. Not so convinced he’s better than Lookman and Vlasic.

I really rate Lookman I think the lad could become a brilliant player but in natural raw ability this lad pips him for me 

His physicality whilst still being quick and skillful is what gives him the edge but I'd love to have them both here on either side 

Vlasic isn'tt a winger he's a modern day forward/attacking midfielder who again I think could be a cracking player but not out wide 

Have you seen the lad play? 

[nyblue23]

1 minute ago, EFC-Paul said:

I really rate Lookman I think the lad could become a brilliant player but in natural raw ability this lad pips him for me 

His physicality whilst still being quick and skillful is what gives him the edge but I'd love to have them both here on either side 

Vlasic isn'ttt a winger he's a modern day forward/attacking midfielder who again I think could be a cracking player but not out wide 

Have you seen the lad play? 

I have seen Vlasic play and he's been pretty much exclusively used on the wing by all three Everton managers since he got here. Whether it's his natural position or not (and you're right that it's not), that's where he keeps getting played.

As for Lookman, it's a matter of opinion. If Richarlison is an improvement at all, he's certainly not enough of one to warrant that price tag for me, and Lookman is slightly younger with loads of ability, so I hate to stunt his growth by throwing someone who's only arguably and marginally better than him into the starting XI before him.

[EFC-Paul]

1 minute ago, nyblue23 said:

I have seen Vlasic play and he's been pretty much exclusively used on the wing by all three Everton managers since he got here. Whether it's his natural position or not (and you're right that it's not), that's where he keeps getting played.

As for Lookman, it's a matter of opinion. If Richarlison is an improvement at all, he's certainly not enough of one to warrant that price tag for me, and Lookman is slightly younger with loads of ability, so I hate to stunt his growth by throwing someone who's only arguably and marginally better than him into the starting XI before him.

No not Vlasic I meant if you'd seen Richarlson play, he's shite out wide and having Sigurdsson here won't bode well for his chances through the middle so he'll be limited 

I agree on Lookman but as I said in my opinion this lad is better and has more about his game 

Price tag I really couldn't care tbh it's the price you pay for potential in a crazy market, this kid at £35+m or Maddison for £24m I know where my money would be going 

I'd be very happy to have those two and Walcott vying for either wing/front three spot along with Tosun 

We'll see how the lad gets on but I'd gladly pop back to this one as I'm confident he'll be a very good purchase 

[c1982]

I really like Lookman and think he’ll be a very good player but he hasn’t actually had too many good games for us albeit with limited chances and no run of games. I think Richarlison has a lot more to his game but want him in addition to Lookman - get shut of Mirallas and Bolasie... maybe use Sandro a little more too as over the course of the season we’ll need 4/5 wingers (Vlasic being the 5th) and there’s plenty of versatility amongst the 5.

[c1982]

3 minutes ago, EFC-Paul said:

No not Vlasic I meant if you'd seen Richarlson play, he's shite out wide and having Sigurdsson here won't bode well for his chances through the middle so he'll be limited  

Richarlison played out wide every time I saw him for Watford - he’ll play on the left but there will hopefully be a lot of interchanging/flexibility between the front 3/4.

[EFC-Paul]

36 minutes ago, c1982 said:

Richarlison played out wide every time I saw him for Watford - he’ll play on the left but there will hopefully be a lot of interchanging/flexibility between the front 3/4.

Fuck me not having much luck tonight with people getting their wires crossed

That was a reply to a previous post to NY not regarding Richarlison but Vlasic basically saying he isn'tt a wide man and he's poor there 

[Peter H]

It just way too much money. Stupid signing at that rate

[markjazzbassist]

A lot of people thought we overpaid for Lukaku look how that turned out

[Cornish Steve]

The way things are going, the odd player out will be Walcott. Personally, I was not that impressed with his signing, although I realize I’m in a minority on that point.