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17 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

great so we wasted 25m on gomes and 25m on gbamin, that's 50m on 2 bench players.  this is my point.  seems overkill.  happy to be proved wrong.  

Yeah Liverpool should never have bought Salah and Mane ... Why do that  when they spent 100m on benteke and Carroll?  Why did they spend money on Allison when they bought karius and the lad from Sunderland? 

By all means if you don't rate him then fine mate, but you can't create a "we've got enough options' argument to exclude him.   Our midfield was one of if not the worst in the league.

I envisage a bit of deadwood will be gone in the coming weeks but we can't operate with any of them. 

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If you’re a midfielder at Everton, you need to seriously step up you’re game if you want to play again.  Not a single one of them will get a look in if they aren’t at least twice as good as they wer

I wanted the midfield sorted and was willing to sacrifice sorting any other position, and it looks like our midfield is getting a serious upgrade which makes me extremely happy. 

7 minutes ago, StevO said:

I think if we play 442; I think Allan plays most games, with Doucoure and Gomes taking the other position depending on opposition. But mostly two of those three. Probably see Davies come in and out too. 
 

If we play433; I can see the three of them playing in the middle. I honestly think this could be the most fluid midfield we could see. They are all a bit different and offer different things with and without the ball. I don’t think many teams would like to play against them three, and still have to worry about Digne, James, Richarlison and DCL at the same time. I think we could really overwhelm teams like this. 
Id be looking at this for them tricky home cup ties against the lower league teams. Play the three of them and dominate the game early on, instead of the usual just about get over the line with a scrappy 1-0. 
 

How about you?

I’m not well versed enough to offer a very informed opinion on formations which is why I asked. That said, I was thinking about  that 4-3-3 and it does seem more natural given our probable  personnel. Both Rodríguez and Richie could play more centrally at times. I know Richie in particular would rather play in the middle. I like the thought of a fluid front 3 where they can overlap and play off each other as they wish as all are capable of playing centrally and holding the ball. Their versatility should be a strength we exploit. As far as the midfield I don’t really know which structure would support a front 3 the best. I would assume Allan, Doucoure and Gomes would make up 2/3 at a minimum. That formation would also give Iwobi (when he plays) a chance to play more centrally behind the front 3 (same for Gordon) where they should be most effective. It wouldn’t surprise me if we shifted more to a 4-4-2 when one of the starting front 3 was not in the game.

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19 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

great so we wasted 25m on gomes and 25m on gbamin, that's 50m on 2 bench players.  this is my point.  seems overkill.  happy to be proved wrong.  

Bit early to be calling Gomes or Gbamin a waste isn’t it? That aside, it’s the reality at all clubs with some money that you’re going to have expensive players in the bench. For example, James Rodríguez at Real Madrid.

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1 hour ago, StevO said:

Gana wasn’t a sitting DM. 
his haters didn’t like that he was often out of position. But this was due to him pressing high up the pitch. He was there to defend, so you can call him a DM if you like, but sitting was never his job. 
 

A lot of us here remember back when a midfielders job was to attack and defend. We get so used to all this crap in the modern game that has about six different type of central midfielder, they either attack, or defend, or play deep..... the nice thing about Doucoure, and by the looks of it Allan too, is that they can defend and attack. 
 

Nowadays what would people call Keane and Scholes? Keane a DM and Scholes and AM? Viera and Petit?
They all attacked and defended. They all did it well, they had their strengths and their weaknesses but their jobs were to do both. 
 

If Carlo wants to play a 442 then I can’t wait to see some midfielders who can do the job of an all round midfielder. 

I'm not sure Scholes defended all that well 😂.

The beauty of those two was that Keane did more of the dirty work but that didn't mean Scholes didn't. He did his fair share as well, its just one was better at it and the other was better technically. Keane was such a simple footballer but IMO that's a great commodity. No real weakness other than his temper. Scholes on the other hand was incredible. 

19 minutes ago, StevO said:

I think if we play 442; I think Allan plays most games, with Doucoure and Gomes taking the other position depending on opposition. But mostly two of those three. Probably see Davies come in and out too. 
 

If we play433; I can see the three of them playing in the middle. I honestly think this could be the most fluid midfield we could see. They are all a bit different and offer different things with and without the ball. I don’t think many teams would like to play against them three, and still have to worry about Digne, James, Richarlison and DCL at the same time. I think we could really overwhelm teams like this. 
Id be looking at this for them tricky home cup ties against the lower league teams. Play the three of them and dominate the game early on, instead of the usual just about get over the line with a scrappy 1-0. 
 

How about you?

Personally I would love to see the 433. Not sure it will happen at least at the start of the season but the quality through the middle could be as good as we have seen for an age.

15 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

great so we wasted 25m on gomes and 25m on gbamin, that's 50m on 2 bench players.  this is my point.  seems overkill.  happy to be proved wrong.  

I dont get what the problem is? Do you want to go through another season relying on a crock and someone who can jogged past too easily. We desperately need a midfield and if it means replacing what we have then it needs to be done. Id be much happier those two coming in than Davies / Siggy.

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Final note on this:-

OUR MIDFIELD WAS A CROCK OF SHIT AND IS STILL 2 INJURIES AWAY FROM RELEGATION QUALITY.

IF WE WENT AND BOUGHT DECOURE AND A.N OTHER THEN I WOULD BE HAPPY!!!

All very well having James Rodriguez and Richarlison......  About as much use as tits on a bull with the shite we've had to watch get walked through week after week.  Doucoure represents decent value and is proven at this level. No brainer.... Yes he's not Paul scholes or Fran lampard but let's get some perspective

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I'm not sure Scholes defended all that well 😂.

The beauty of those two was that Keane did more of the dirty work but that didn't mean Scholes didn't. He did his fair share as well, its just one was better at it and the other was better technically. Keane was such a simple footballer but IMO that's a great commodity. No real weakness other than his temper. Scholes on the other hand was incredible. 

Haha a few ankles in the premier league agree with you about Scholes. 
Im sure you get my point about them both having it in their game to do both sides, but each had their strength. There was none of this “he’s a holding midfielder and he’s attacking” they just both did what was needed. 
Two incredibly gifted players, who played the game simply. Apart from when Scholes would do some unbelievable pass or volley into the back of the net. 

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55 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

great so we wasted 25m on gomes and 25m on gbamin, that's 50m on 2 bench players.  this is my point.  seems overkill.  happy to be proved wrong.  

add £45M Gylfi to that!!

Not overkill at all - I see our starting midfield as Allan, Doucoure, Gomes and Rodriguez  - Gbmin not fit yet but will be on bench to start with, but there will be injuries etc so cover will be needed. If any half decent offer comes in for Davies, Delph  or Gylfi - they get them moved one or two of them on. 

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I get where Mark is coming from with position of need, and honestly I've never been impressed watching him either, however if Brands and Carlo want him 25m is a 'bargain'. It would probably be double if Watford stayed up and we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Signing Doucoure doesn't excite me but Brands/Carlo getting another one of their targets in the door at a decent fee does. I look forward to Doucoure proving me wrong! 

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2 hours ago, StevO said:

Gana wasn’t a sitting DM

I know he wasn’t he was headless chicken with a ball magnet for a brain, football is so much more than running all round the pitch trying to win the ball, it’s knowing how to mark a man and close down space and hold, not running around aimlessly like you’ve got a couple Duracell shoved up his arse😉

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9 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I know he wasn’t he was headless chicken with a ball magnet for a brain, football is so much more than running all round the pitch trying to win the ball, it’s knowing how to mark a man and close down space and hold, not running around aimlessly like you’ve got a couple Duracell shoved up his arse😉

You see aimlessly, others see a press that’s being asked by his manager and his tactics. 
You’re going to hate Allan. 
😂

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22 minutes ago, StevO said:

You see aimlessly, others see a press that’s being asked by his manager and his tactics. 
You’re going to hate Allan. 
😂

😂 I hope not, I don’t think I could manage another Gana in the team. 
The thing with a pressing game is you do it as a team not one man running around exposing the space and players behind them. 
It won’t  take Allan long to realise that as a central defender Keane has no pace so will hang back as close to 18 yard box as humanly possible for fear of a ball over the top and a race back, if Ancelotti wants to play a an out and out pressing game he needs to get a lot more pace in the back line.

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Doucoure is a great buy for us, strong, agile and full of energy and running. Having watched him for Watford he is an all rounder, can tackle, can pass, can press and can drive forward. What he does he does with energy and aggression. Things our midfield have truly lacked.

I think he is best at getting the ball and driving forward, he is strong and difficult to take the ball from. He can get us up the pitch.

With the other signings we have a ready made quality midfield that will allow younger players to develop, and quality players like Gomes, Richarlison and Bernard to play without pressure of the team being so dependant on them creating something.

I hope and prey this means Delph and Siggy leave as they are now surplus to requirements, and will not get any game time barring injuries and suspensions.

Truly a very exciting season lies ahead, if we can blend them together quickly enough.

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1 hour ago, Gwlad all over said:

Right now it seems he is.

That’s quite a negative way of looking at it. Player gets hurt before he has a chance to show us what he has and he’s labeled a waste? The Gomes characterization is even worse as he’s shown good ability for us at times and also suffered a bad injury that will take time to completely get over. I hope the club doesn’t treat these guys like some of the fan base apparently does and actually gives them a chance before rendering judgement. Fair play to criticize whatever you’d like but it rings hollow when it’s directed at players who haven’t been given a fair run to prove themselves. 

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Gomes is a quality player, end of discussion.

You do not get signed by Barcelona and play at the level he has without having a very high level of ability.

We have all seen his displays for us, his passing, vision and leadership on the pitch, not to mention his qualities off it.

He has suffered a serious injury, played for managers not worthy of the title and in teams nowhere near his ability so his form dipped, but that is understandable. His quality is perminant.

I cant wait to see him play in Everton team with the new signings under Carlo.

Gambin has not had the chance to show his ability, but all accounts from his time in France he will be an important player for us. He deserves time to prove himself.

I wish we would try supporting our team for a change not ripping at them before the season has even started.

(Siggy and Delph not included as they have proven their inability to be part of Everton)

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3 hours ago, London Blue said:

Gomes is a quality player, end of discussion.

You do not get signed by Barcelona and play at the level he has without having a very high level of ability.

We have all seen his displays for us, his passing, vision and leadership on the pitch, not to mention his qualities off it.

He has suffered a serious injury, played for managers not worthy of the title and in teams nowhere near his ability so his form dipped, but that is understandable. His quality is perminant.

I cant wait to see him play in Everton team with the new signings under Carlo.

Gambin has not had the chance to show his ability, but all accounts from his time in France he will be an important player for us. He deserves time to prove himself.

I wish we would try supporting our team for a change not ripping at them before the season has even started.

(Siggy and Delph not included as they have proven their inability to be part of Everton)

The reason he was signed by Barca is certainly clear.... Very talented player.

Sadly the reason he was allowed to leave is evident too ... Woefully inconsistent.  This isn't an injury thing... Look at match threads from December 19 through to Feb.  

I'm hoping the new signings get the best from him as there is a player there but this injury/poor form thing isn't true. 

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6 hours ago, Hafnia said:

The reason he was signed by Barca is certainly clear.... Very talented player.

Sadly the reason he was allowed to leave is evident too ... Woefully inconsistent.  This isn't an injury thing... Look at match threads from December 19 through to Feb.  

I'm hoping the new signings get the best from him as there is a player there but this injury/poor form thing isn't true. 

Lets give him a chance with a proper midfield though Haf, far too often he has been the only player in the center of the park taking the game on.

I feel it this year, an absolute different kettle of fish with this midfield.

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35 minutes ago, Btay said:

Lets give him a chance with a proper midfield though Haf, far too often he has been the only player in the center of the park taking the game on.

I feel it this year, an absolute different kettle of fish with this midfield.

That's what I'm hoping for. At Barca he had busquets, xavi etc and struggled for consistency. 

Let's hope eh

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7 hours ago, Hafnia said:

The reason he was signed by Barca is certainly clear.... Very talented player.

Sadly the reason he was allowed to leave is evident too ... Woefully inconsistent.  This isn't an injury thing... Look at match threads from December 19 through to Feb.  

I'm hoping the new signings get the best from him as there is a player there but this injury/poor form thing isn't true. 

The injury is unfortunately all to real, his time at Benfica and Valencia showed he can maintain very good form. Barcelona is a test unlike any other, many many very good players go there and suffocate and have to leave to re find their career. 

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11 hours ago, SpartyBlue said:

That’s quite a negative way of looking at it. Player gets hurt before he has a chance to show us what he has and he’s labeled a waste? The Gomes characterization is even worse as he’s shown good ability for us at times and also suffered a bad injury that will take time to completely get over. I hope the club doesn’t treat these guys like some of the fan base apparently does and actually gives them a chance before rendering judgement. Fair play to criticize whatever you’d like but it rings hollow when it’s directed at players who haven’t been given a fair run to prove themselves. 

I'm not criticising a player with an unfortunate injury but in terms of investment we haven't got any return, in what is now over a year, for the outlay. I want him back to show what we have missed.

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1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

That's what I'm hoping for. At Barca he had busquets, xavi etc and struggled for consistency. 

Let's hope eh

I know what you are saying pal. I really hope he finds those consistent levels because he’s simply a joy to watch.

The thought of Gomes and James linking up is unreal. Allan and Doucoure to add the steel as well. I’m so excited for what this team could potentially achieve.

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1 hour ago, Aidan said:

At least he's at a club which seems to be showing in some belief and love this time. That might make the difference. 

He's not just arrived mate, he's been here a good while now.  I'm not being negative but this "played bad cos of midfield partners or injury' is bollocks.

He's played well after injury, played well with good and bad partners.... We know how good he can be but he needs to find it from himself.  He just struggled with getting his head right at times, dimple as that. 

 

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18 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

He's not just arrived mate, he's been here a good while now.  I'm not being negative but this "played bad cos of midfield partners or injury' is bollocks.

He's played well after injury, played well with good and bad partners.... We know how good he can be but he needs to find it from himself.  He just struggled with getting his head right at times, dimple as that. 

 

Yeah ive mentioned it before but i think his dip in form at times is due to a weak mentality. Fingers crossed for improvement this season. 

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46 minutes ago, Aidan said:

Yeah ive mentioned it before but i think his dip in form at times is due to a weak mentality. Fingers crossed for improvement this season. 

"If" he can be that player we see run games, gliding past players, pinging passes then we are in business. He will have the perfect partners. 

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22 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Final note on this:-

OUR MIDFIELD WAS A CROCK OF SHIT AND IS STILL 2 INJURIES AWAY FROM RELEGATION QUALITY.

So you are including Davies as a crock? I’m confused with your opinion. 
 

edit. Don’t respond Haf just finished work and just seen you’ve posted in the Davies thread (obviously going to check rumourama section first!) 

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In the end he was brought in because the other two are totally unproven in the Prem and may well take a while to settle.  He's a known entity, at least to an extent.  His first two years in England he looked very decent.  Last year he really fell off.  Was that because "his head was turned" or something deeper.  We're gambling that he still has the tools to get back to his best.  The fact that the purported price (20 M) is so much lower than it was last year (45M - we offered 37.5 and that was rejected) gives me a bit of pause.  Are we all of sudden in that strong of a negotiating position, or do Watford think they know something we don't?

I expect he'll play a lot of minutes, alongside Allan against the top teams, and alongside Gomes if we're looking for more attacking intent through the middle.

 

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Going to be huge triple announcement. Hopefully on the back of that we can maybe swing a couple more deals through with that momentum. Loving this window though, Doucoure & James hopefully to add some much needed goals. Expect James to finally be that player to go 10+ goals & 10+ assists. Doucoure should get about 5-10. Getting excited.

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I’ll be interested to see how we squeeze all the new signings into midfield. In an ideal world Allan and Doucoure would be playing as box-to-box mids next to a holding midfielder and I’d imagine James playing as a no. 10 or attacking 8.

I wonder if we’ll move to the diamond midfield of Ancelotti’s old AC Milan side. It might be the better option over playing the likes of Walcott, Bolassie, etc. 

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1 hour ago, Vranny said:

I’ll be interested to see how we squeeze all the new signings into midfield. In an ideal world Allan and Doucoure would be playing as box-to-box mids next to a holding midfielder and I’d imagine James playing as a no. 10 or attacking 8.

I wonder if we’ll move to the diamond midfield of Ancelotti’s old AC Milan side. It might be the better option over playing the likes of Walcott, Bolassie, etc. 

absolutely agree. Would love to see us playing this 2 attacking mids and one holding. Nice change from the 4-2-3-1 we’ve seen a lot of in the last few years.

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6 hours ago, Vranny said:

I’ll be interested to see how we squeeze all the new signings into midfield. In an ideal world Allan and Doucoure would be playing as box-to-box mids next to a holding midfielder and I’d imagine James playing as a no. 10 or attacking 8.

I wonder if we’ll move to the diamond midfield of Ancelotti’s old AC Milan side. It might be the better option over playing the likes of Walcott, Bolassie, etc. 

James has also played in either wing / midfield. He has the work rate and is not bad at defending.

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I’ve come round to us signing Doucoure.

I didn’t realise he’s a bit of a box to box player, good engine, can tackle, good at dribbling and can hammer a finish.

Also, he’s the type of player you hope doesn’t play against you. He always worried me when we played against Watford. So hopefully he can have that effect on other players.

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